# Saving develop edits when moving raw file



## hollyfpk (Oct 16, 2019)

After I edit a raw photo, and export a jpg, I would like to move the original raw file to another folder.  However, when I do that, I can't figure out how to see the adjustments in the adjustments panel any more.   If I move it back into the folder that I use for editing, and synchronize so it shows up,  it shows the +sign on the corner of the thumbnail in Library mode, showing that edits have been made, but I can't access them.  If I go to Develop mode, all sliders are set to zero and none of the edits show.

When I back up, it creates a single backup file, so I don't know how to get a specific photo out of it.  How can I move the raw file to another folder, and then view it in Develop mode to see the adjustments I have made?

Thank you for any help.


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## Zenon (Oct 16, 2019)

Why are you moving files back and forth to an editing folder? They are already in a folder. Move the folder to wherever you keep all your folders and edit out of there.  Moving files back and forth to different folders is causing the issue. You can move the folder before or after editing but I always do that before I edit.


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## clee01l (Oct 16, 2019)

hollyfpk said:


> After I edit a raw photo, and export a jpg, I would like to move the original raw file to another folder. However, when I do that, I can't figure out how to see the adjustments in the adjustments panel any more. If I move it back into the folder that I use for editing, and synchronize so it shows up, it shows the +sign on the corner of the thumbnail in Library mode, showing that edits have been made, but I can't access them. If I go to Develop mode, all sliders are set to zero and none of the edits show.
> 
> When I back up, it creates a single backup file, so I don't know how to get a specific photo out of it. How can I move the raw file to another folder, and then view it in Develop mode to see the adjustments I have made?
> 
> Thank you for any help.



Lightroom keeps all of the edit adjustments in the catalog file. They are not part of the original file. When you export to create a JPEG, Lightroom applies the edit parameters to the original file and creates a new adjusted file. The Original file stays “original”. And the adjustments are applied to the image of the original file ONLY when viewed in Lightroom OR when a new derivative file is created during export.

Zenon is correct you don’t need to move original files around Lightroom’s job is to keep the original “original” and store the edit parameters so that they can be maintained if needed again. 


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## Zenon (Oct 16, 2019)

Thanks Cletus. I was just about to add more info about how the catalogue works and then your post came up so I aborted.


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## prbimages (Oct 16, 2019)

hollyfpk said:


> How can I move the raw file to another folder, and then view it in Develop mode to see the adjustments I have made?


If you move a file WITHIN the Lightroom interface, by dragging and dropping in the folders panel on the left side, your edits should stay connected to the file. Is this what you are doing? Or are you moving the file using Explorer (in which case Lightroom won't know about the change)?


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## johnbeardy (Oct 16, 2019)

hollyfpk said:


> How can I move the raw file to another folder, and then view it in Develop mode to see the adjustments I have made?



Move it using Lightroom, not using Explorer.


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## Paul_DS256 (Oct 16, 2019)

You can have your settings saved to the XMP sidecar (sorry forgot where the setting is). You seem to get everything except history. This can be useful if you want to move to a different photo editing product like ON1 which can read LR XMP's. 

Note that while individual changes to an image can be saved to the XMP, some nice features like STACKING are not represented in an XMP and only stored in the catalogue.

As others have mentioned, use LR to move files and not the OS file management utility.


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## Jim Wilde (Oct 16, 2019)

Paul_DS256 said:


> You seem to get everything except history.



No, more than just the history and stacks are not included in XMP. Also Flags, Virtual Copies, Collection Membership, uncommitted location data, and various switches. See the MissingFAQ, around page 346 of the PDF version.



> This can be useful if you want to move to a different photo editing product like ON1 which can read LR XMP's.


I'm not sure about this. Yes, some of the data included in the XMP field would be readable by many (most) image editors/viewers (keywords, titles, captions, etc). However, develop-related XMP entries are more of a no-go area.....I recall that ON1 originally touted an LR Catalog migration capability, but abandoned that when they realised how difficult it would be. I believe they've changed to an AI-driven function to best approximate the LR develop settings, though I have heard mixed reports about its effectiveness. AFAIK, no other imgae editor has made any claims in this area, so right now the only products that can read and correctly apply LR's develop settings in XMP are Adobe's.


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## Zenon (Oct 16, 2019)

johnbeardy said:


> Move it using Lightroom, not using Explorer.



That was one of the first things they taught us when I took basic lessons about 7 years ago.


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## hollyfpk (Oct 16, 2019)

prbimages said:


> If you move a file WITHIN the Lightroom interface, by dragging and dropping in the folders panel on the left side, your edits should stay connected to the file. Is this what you are doing? Or are you moving the file using Explorer (in which case Lightroom won't know about the change)?


OK, I see this is my problem.  I was moving with Windows Explorer.


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## hollyfpk (Oct 16, 2019)

prbimages said:


> If you move a file WITHIN the Lightroom interface, by dragging and dropping in the folders panel on the left side, your edits should stay connected to the file. Is this what you are doing? Or are you moving the file using Explorer (in which case Lightroom won't know about the change)?





johnbeardy said:


> Move it using Lightroom, not using Explorer.


Yes, and prbimages and someone below said the same thing, and that seems to be what causes my issue.  I appreciate the explanation, and am very happy to have a solution!


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## hollyfpk (Oct 16, 2019)

Paul_DS256 said:


> You can have your settings saved to the XMP sidecar (sorry forgot where the setting is). You seem to get everything except history. This can be useful if you want to move to a different photo editing product like ON1 which can read LR XMP's.
> 
> Note that while individual changes to an image can be saved to the XMP, some nice features like STACKING are not represented in an XMP and only stored in the catalogue.
> 
> As others have mentioned, use LR to move files and not the OS file management utility.


Yes, thank you Paul and others above who took the time to explain to me.  Makes total sense.  I appreciate all the help.


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## prbimages (Oct 17, 2019)

hollyfpk said:


> I appreciate the explanation, and am very happy to have a solution!


Glad to help  

The next thing to think about is WHY you want to move your RAW files around? Most experienced users will simply import photos into a standard folder structure (generally organized by date) and then leave them there forever. They will use keywords / collections / publish services / virtual copies etc. to subsequently keep track of images and their derivatives. Feel free to ask, if you have any further questions about optimizing your workflow.


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## Paul_DS256 (Oct 17, 2019)

Jim Wilde said:


> No, more than just the history and stacks are not included in XMP. Also Flags, Virtual Copies, Collection Membership, uncommitted location data, and various switches. See the MissingFAQ, around page 346 of the PDF version.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure about this. Yes, some of the data included in the XMP field would be readable by many (most) image editors/viewers (keywords, titles, captions, etc). However, develop-related XMP entries are more of a no-go area.....I recall that ON1 originally touted an LR Catalog migration capability, but abandoned that when they realised how difficult it would be. I believe they've changed to an AI-driven function to best approximate the LR develop settings, though I have heard mixed reports about its effectiveness. AFAIK, no other imgae editor has made any claims in this area, so right now the only products that can read and correctly apply LR's develop settings in XMP are Adobe's.



Thanks for the clarifications Jim. My XMP comment was around photo editing as opposed to library management.

I didn't realize the issues with ON1. I thought it just read the XMP to get the different settings. I just found the section in the ON1 Guide where it talks about moving from LR to ON1. 

I haven't played with ON1 but no some photographers that use it. For me I have enough to learn on LR which suits my needs.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 17, 2019)

Paul_DS256 said:


> I didn't realize the issues with ON1. I thought it just read the XMP to get the different settings.


On1 can do that and that part is easy. Any application could do this, because XMP files are just text files and the entries are easy to read. The problem is that Lightroom edits are based on Adobe's raw engine, which is proprietary and different from On1's raw engine. And that means that simply reading and applying the entries in the XMP file will not give you the expected end result.


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## Paul_DS256 (Oct 17, 2019)

Johan Elzenga said:


> The problem is that Lightroom edits are based on Adobe's raw engine, which is proprietary and different from On1's raw engine.



Excellent point Johan. I had not considered that the values in the settings were not equivalent.


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## clee01l (Oct 17, 2019)

Johan Elzenga said:


> On1 can do that and that part is easy. Any application could do this, because XMP files are just text files and the entries are easy to read. The problem is that Lightroom edits are based on Adobe's raw engine, which is proprietary and different from On1's raw engine. And that means that simply reading and applying the entries in the XMP file will not give you the expected end result.



Some one stated that ON1 reads Lightroom XMP files. I have not verified this. However it would be possible for ON1 to reverse engineer the LR adjustments and apply them to the ON1 processing engine parameters. This would be similar to Adobe’s reverse engineering of the in Camera Manufacturers settings. 

To be clear, I agree with you that a Lightroom adjustment of “Texture=32” might not have an ON1 parameter that directly agrees with Adobe’s Texture function algorithm. But it is conceivable if ON1 really wants to provide an alternative to Lightroom that they reverse engineer the LR adjustments stored in the XMP.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 17, 2019)

The main problem that On1 faces when they try to mimic the Lightroom edits is the raw engine and the profiles. Exposure = 0.15 is easy to translate to whatever value you would use in On1. And indeed some functions (Texture, Clarity, Dehaze) may simply not have a real equivalent in On1. They tried to work around that and created a Lightroom migration function, but when I tried it I found it to be very poor. It may have been improved by now.


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## hollyfpk (Oct 17, 2019)

prbimages said:


> Glad to help
> 
> The next thing to think about is WHY you want to move your RAW files around? Most experienced users will simply import photos into a standard folder structure (generally organized by date) and then leave them there forever. They will use keywords / collections / publish services / virtual copies etc. to subsequently keep track of images and their derivatives. Feel free to ask, if you have any further questions about optimizing your workflow.


Yes, prbimages, I need to better use the built-in features to organize my pictures, I really need to take some time to understand them and get a better process.  Since I don't have that many photos, I have gotten away with a very basic approach, but I am sure tagging, filtering, etc. would be a better solution.  I will work on it


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