# Red tinge in prints



## rustyLr (Jul 22, 2020)

I've just set up my monitor with the ColorMunki Smile and prints from Photoshop CC 2019 are very good, with no obvious issues. However when I did a test print from the same images via Lr there was a distinctive red tinge - around 10%. It was there whether I chose Printer Manages colour or ColorSync colour management. Have I missed something or does Lr not have as good colour management compared to Ps?


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## Conrad Chavez (Jul 22, 2020)

What brand and model of printer is it?

If it’s an Epson, Printer Manages Color vs ColorSync is not the typical choice. As in Photoshop, there are two places to set color handling for a job and they should be coordinated. One in the application, and the other in the options provided by the printer driver software:

In the Lightroom Classic Print Module, Print Job panel, you choose either Managed by Printer or a specific print profile (which means managed by Lightroom Classic, similar to Photoshop Manages Color).
When you click the Print Settings or Printer button, you set up the options provided by the printer driver software, which is the same as clicking the Print Settings button inside the Photoshop Print dialog box. There, if you chose Managed by Printer in Lightroom Classic, then (if it’s an Epson) you can choose either ColorSync or Epson Color Controls. But if you chose a specific print profile back in the Print module, then these Color Matching options are disabled because Lightroom Classic is already sending a conversion to that profile.
Either way, it’s also important to make sure that (for an Epson) in Printer Settings, the Media Type is correct. If you chose a specific print profile in the Print module, it should be consistent with this Media Type.

Like Photoshop, the farther you get away from the OEM papers and inks, the more reliable your results will be if it’s set for Photoshop or Lightroom Classic to manage color by sending data that’s already converted for the appropriate profile, and also disable color management in the printer driver software. If you stick with OEM papers and inks, then in both Photoshop and Lightroom Classic you could use the alternate route of letting the printer (driver software) manage the color using the Color Matching options in the Print dialog box.

If everything is set correctly, Lightroom Classic is capable of print quality that’s at least as good as Photoshop. No, it isn’t intuitive to set up. But the general principles of which switches to throw in which place are essentially the same.


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## rustyLr (Jul 22, 2020)

OK thanks. Its an Epson printer with OEM inks and paper, the same paper as photoshop. I'll have another play with it later based on your info and see what I get.


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## rustyLr (Jul 23, 2020)

I loaded the Epson paper profiles into Color Management below where it says Managed by Printer and did another print but no change. Looks like Lr can't match Ps in colour management (or without a lot of work) which is unfortunate. You'd think they'd have the same engine.


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## Johan Elzenga (Jul 23, 2020)

rustyLr said:


> I loaded the Epson paper profiles into Color Management below where it says Managed by Printer and did another print but no change. Looks like Lr can't match Ps in colour management (or without a lot of work) which is unfortunate. You'd think they'd have the same engine.


Sounds like you did not setup the printer driver correctly. Please post screenshots of both your settings in the Lightroom print module as well as the settings in the printer driver.


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## Conrad Chavez (Jul 23, 2020)

rustyLr said:


> Looks like Lr can't match Ps in colour management (or without a lot of work) which is unfortunate. You'd think they'd have the same engine.



Be careful jumping to that conclusion. As I said earlier, when correctly set up, Lightroom Classic print quality should be comparable to Photoshop, and it isn’t just me that says that. The 2014 book _The Digltal Print_ by Jeff Schewe (long time Photoshop/Lightroom expert) talks about printing from Photoshop and Lightroom Classic in equal terms throughout the book. A quote from the book: “Photoshop and Lightroom both use the Adobe Color Engine (ACE) color matching module.”

I recently printed an entire public show of photographs in Lightroom Classic because I prefer the workflow compared to Photoshop. Nothing wrong with Photoshop, I could have printed them from there too but they were already ready in Lightroom Classic as a collection.

The solution is in troubleshooting the actual problem, because we can assure you that what you are seeing does not happen to everyone.


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## clee01l (Jul 23, 2020)

Lets go back and investigate from the beginning. You say the you tuned your monitor with Color Munki. How do you know the monitor itself is putting out proper colors? Might the adjustments from ColorMunki have over corrected the colors to compensate for the failing monitor? 

Did you use soft proofing in LrC Development and Photoshop? You need to apply the same icc profile in soft proofing as you do when you print. This needs to be the icc profile that is developed for your printer/paper combination.

Also, switch your color profile of your monitor to sRGB and view the same image in LrC and PS. Do the colors look close? And have a reasonably correct appearance?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## rustyLr (Jul 24, 2020)

This is my print settings in Lr.  I was using a print target file and no adjustment to images before printing. That target prints neutral grey straight out of Ps and with a slight reddish tinge when printed from Lr, ditto another test print I did. I've not done soft proofing before, one of those things I've been meaning to look into. I'll do some more test prints later on but looking for ideas, no idea what I can tweak in the colour management workflow to sort out the source of the tinge.


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## rustyLr (Jul 24, 2020)

I did another print with the default monitor icc profile and no difference. Its only a slight tinge that I'm dealing with, not a major one but it means prints are not as colour crisp as in Ps and gives a slight tobacco cast across the print.


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## Johan Elzenga (Jul 24, 2020)

In the printer driver, there are more choices if you click on  'Print Settings'. Post screenshots of all of them.

I also wonder why you choose 'Epson XP800 700 600 series Photo' as profile while you have chosen 'Epson Glossy' as paper. Doesn't that mean you should use the 'Epson XP800 700 600 Series Glossy' or 'Premium Glossy' as profile?


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## rustyLr (Jul 24, 2020)

Johan Elzenga said:


> I also wonder why you choose 'Epson XP800 700 600 series Photo' as profile while you have chosen 'Epson Glossy' as paper. Doesn't that mean you should use the 'Epson XP800 700 600 Series Glossy' or 'Premium Glossy' as profile?



I'm test printing on Epson Photo Paper GLOSSY which is not a profile name, so its difficult to know which to choose between Photo and Glossy options in the profile selector


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## Johan Elzenga (Jul 24, 2020)

rustyLr said:


> I'm test printing on Epson Photo Paper GLOSSY which is not a profile name, so its difficult to know which to choose between Photo and Glossy options in the profile selector


Epson should inform you about that, but I would think it makes sense that a glossy paper needs some glossy profile.


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## clee01l (Jul 24, 2020)

Johan Elzenga said:


> Epson should inform you about that, but I would think it makes sense that a glossy paper needs some glossy profile.


A Matte paper absorbs more ink than a Glossy paper and this difference results in more or less ink being deposited by the printer.  The icc profile would be different for each type of paper used.


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## rustyLr (Jul 25, 2020)

Johan Elzenga said:


> Epson should inform you about that, but I would think it makes sense that a glossy paper needs some glossy profile.



I just realised this info was in the printed sheet that came with the paper - on the reverse side. Still on L plates in this space.
It suggests my paper is a profile but its not in my list. Where can I get individual profiles for papers for a Mac? I've done multiple searches but haven't found a download page.


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## clee01l (Jul 25, 2020)

rustyLr said:


> I just realised this info was in the printed sheet that came with the paper - on the reverse side. Still on L plates in this space.
> It suggests my paper is a profile but its not in my list. Where can I get individual profiles for papers for a Mac? I've done multiple searches but haven't found a download page.



Icc profiles are not dependent upon operating system but printer characteristics and paper characteristics. If you are using Epson brand paper, then Look on the Epson website for icc profiles for your paper


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## rustyLr (Jul 25, 2020)

clee01l said:


> ... If you are using Epson brand paper, then Look on the Epson website for icc profiles for your paper



I've tried in vain to search for these profiles on the web. All I get is limited to current epson pro printer models, so it might be they are combo profiles for printers and OEM inks and papers bundled together.


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## clee01l (Jul 25, 2020)

RedRiverPapers is the brand that I use  and they have developed icc profiles for all of their papers.  They fall int to two families Epson and Canon.   I think based upon that company and other Photo paper manufacturers,  you only need to find a print profile for your paper and (any) Epson printer.

Which Specific paper are you trying to print in?    I could research and see if I come up with something different from the icc profile that you have been using.  Although we a re getting far removed from the "red tinge" issue.


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## Johan Elzenga (Jul 25, 2020)

Johan Elzenga said:


> In the printer driver, there are more choices if you click on 'Print Settings'. Post screenshots of all of them


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## rustyLr (Jul 26, 2020)

I suspected the issue was that the print was a little on the dense side which tends to bring out any underlying tints, so I was trying to lighten the print via Soft Proof and exposure slider and when that washed out, then just in the Print dialog with Brightness slider. The results were a bit washed so I deleted all the soft proofing copies and reset dialogs but now all prints are washed out to the same degree as the first soft proof. This has me stumped. I've gone through all the colour workflow settings to make sure all are correct and neutral and there seems to be a stuck setting somewhere. In Grid view none of the images have an icon to suggest anything has been applied to them. Any ideas where the fault may be?


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## rustyLr (Jul 26, 2020)

I've sort of found the issue. I reinstalled the driver and reset everything I could. It turns out if I select in the Lr Print panel Color Management > Managed by Printer it prints at a reasonable density (to the point I was at the start of this page). I later lightened the image by about +10 and it reduced the tint to barely perceptible. This whole saga has taken about half a day and a dozen 4 x 6 test prints to resolve. Although I appreciate what Lr can do, this was a long trip down the rabbit hole and to think Ps did a (still) better image out of the box. I'm going to replace my photo printer in the near future with a more advanced A3 model, so I won't do any more in this space. The newer printer may work better with Lr as well.





The first image has Epson Premium Glossy selected in Soft Proof and 'Profile: Managed by Printer' in Print panel (above), 
The second image is where Epson Premium Glossy selected in Soft Proof and also set in 'Profile: Epson Premium Glossy' in the Print panel's Color Management dialog, which washed it out.


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## Johan Elzenga (Jul 26, 2020)

‘Managed by Printer’ means you have turned off color management (by Lightroom). Soft proofing is completely useless in that case. Anyway, if you don’t want to post those screenshots, then I don’t want to waste any more time on this.


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## rustyLr (Jul 26, 2020)

Johan Elzenga said:


> ‘Managed by Printer’ means you have turned off color management (by Lightroom). Soft proofing is completely useless in that case. Anyway, if you don’t want to post those screenshots, then I don’t want to waste any more time on this.



I appreciate your assistance. This is a 8-10 year old photo printer. There are no other relevant screenshots I can offer. I've seen modern printers with more options in the driver settings you mention.


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## Johan Elzenga (Jul 26, 2020)

Of course there are more relevant screenshots and I explained how to get to them. But if you do not want to do that, so be it.


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