# Workflow for Topaz Photo AI with Lightroom?



## switters (Sep 16, 2022)

I have all 3 of the Topaz AI apps, and I just got an email about their new Photo AI app, which combines sharpening, denoising, and other AI features. 

I'd like to integrate this into my workflow. Ideally, I'd be able to run RAW selects through Photo AI and then continue with my normal editing workflow in Lightroom.

I see how that is possible with LR Classic. But LR doesn't have plugin functionality, so I don't see a way to do this without a workaround.

Right now, when I want to use the Topaz AI apps, I "Edit in Photoshop" from LR, and then open the plugins from PS and save back to LR. That results in a TIFF or PSD file, and I can't continue with RAW editing from there. 

Any ideas for how to achieve my objective without switching to LR Classic?


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## Victoria Bampton (Sep 19, 2022)

Not the answer you want, but no, not cleanly. You could export to a folder, run through Photo AI, then import the resulting files, but I think you'd still end up with TIFF/PSD. 

As a side note though, I'd love to see some real world examples of how running through Topaz first is better than editing entirely in Lightroom. The marketing shots are never very realistic!


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## Jimmsp (Sep 19, 2022)

Victoria Bampton said:


> As a side note though, I'd love to see some real world examples of how running through Topaz first is better than editing entirely in Lightroom. The marketing shots are never very realistic!


First, I think you will get a chance Oct 5 when Matt Kloskowski give his talk at the Lightroom Summit.

I have been a user of Topaz products along with LRC and PS for quite a while. LR Classic is still my primary tool, but I use the other tools in Topaz and PS when I need them. I don't use Topaz first, but when I do it is downstream in my workflow. The Topaz AI programs are not perfect. But when I am cropping in on shots that might have some motion blur in them along with high ISO, the Topaz can make them look a lot better that LRC can.  There are a lot of parallels with Photoshop.  If I have a large area of a photo that needs some cleanup, then PS's tools are generally the best.
LR Classic has made it very easy to use "edit in ...  with LR adjustments"  that the workflow of back and forth for PS or Topaz AI is pretty seamless.  I can't speak for LR Cloudy.


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## Jim Wilde (Sep 19, 2022)

switters said:


> Right now, when I want to use the Topaz AI apps, I "Edit in Photoshop" from LR, and then open the plugins from PS and save back to LR. That results in a TIFF or PSD file, and I can't continue with RAW editing from there.


Using Topaz plug-ins from within Lightroom Classic will always result in a Tiff or PSD being returned. Sure it's more seamless than opening your image from Lightroom into PS for onward work in Topaz, but the end result is still a Tiff or PSD.

As I understand it, the only way to retain a Raw workflow while integrating Topaz would be to open into Topaz first and save back out as a DNG for subsequent import into LrC (or LrD, as it would be the same workflow). The DNG is technically not a true Raw file, as it's been demosaiced and is now a linear DNG (with Topaz edits baked in, so no way to reset back to the original raw state), but it retains the same edit controls latitude that you get with a true Raw file.

Happy to be corrected on that last point, as my only use so far of the Topaz suite is via the LrC plug-ins.


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## switters (Sep 19, 2022)

Jim Wilde said:


> Using Topaz plug-ins from within Lightroom Classic will always result in a Tiff or PSD being returned. Sure it's more seamless than opening your image from Lightroom into PS for onward work in Topaz, but the end result is still a Tiff or PSD.
> 
> As I understand it, the only way to retain a Raw workflow while integrating Topaz would be to open into Topaz first and save back out as a DNG for subsequent import into LrC (or LrD, as it would be the same workflow). The DNG is technically not a true Raw file, as it's been demosaiced and is now a linear DNG (with Topaz edits baked in, so no way to reset back to the original raw state), but it retains the same edit controls latitude that you get with a true Raw file.
> 
> Happy to be corrected on that last point, as my only use so far of the Topaz suite is via the LrC plug-ins.


Ah, I didn't realize that.

If that's the case, there's really no workflow difference between LrC and LR. 

I don't use Topaz on every image either. But it has been great for iPhone photos that I want to print large, and for some action photos where focus was slightly off. 

I think the best bet is probably to just use Topaz at the end, rather than the beginning, of my workflow when I want to use it. That way I can just "Edit in Photoshop..." as I've been doing. 

Thanks!


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## switters (Sep 20, 2022)

Update: according to Topaz support, it is possible to open a RAW file from LrC into Photo AI, make adjustments, and save it back to LrC as a RAW file. 

They said:

RAW editing is accessible from the File > Plug-in Extras > Process in Topaz Photo AI menu and will send any image directly to Topaz Photo AI, then import the processed image back into Lightroom Classic.





The non-RAW plugin is accessible from the Photo > Edit in > Topaz Photo AI menu. This will create a TIFF or JPG copy of any image and send it to Topaz Ph


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## Johan Elzenga (Sep 20, 2022)

switters said:


> Update: according to Topaz support, it is possible to open a RAW file from LrC into Photo AI, make adjustments, and save it back to LrC as a RAW file.


No application, so that includes Topaz applications, can save an edited raw file as a raw file again. That's like changing an omelet into raw eggs. Most likely Topaz saves it as a linear RGB DNG file.


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## switters (Sep 20, 2022)

Johan Elzenga said:


> No application, so that includes Topaz applications, can save an edited raw file as a raw file again. That's like changing an omelet into raw eggs. Most likely Topaz saves it as a linear RGB DNG file.


Thanks for the clarification.

The key point for me is that I would still have more editing control with things like white balance and some presets (Mastin Labs) with DNG files than I would with a JPG or TIFF. Unless I'm not understanding what a linear RGB DNG file is.


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## Johan Elzenga (Sep 21, 2022)

Linear DNG files _can_ behave like raw files, including the possibility to apply a white balance *setting* rather than just a white balance *adjustment* like you get with jpeg and tiff. I don’t use Topaz products so I can’t tell you if that is the case with Topaz too, but the (incorrect) information of Topaz support suggests that it probably is such a DNG.


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## switters (Sep 21, 2022)

Either way, the ability to come back into LR with a DNG after using Topaz is still probably not a big enough incentive for me to switch from LR back to LrC. I can just use Topaz at the end of my workflow with only the photos that need it. After thinking about it further, that's what makes the most sense to me. Thanks!


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## Jimmsp (Sep 21, 2022)

switters said:


> Either way, the ability to come back into LR with a DNG after using Topaz is still probably not a big enough incentive for me to switch from LR back to LrC. I can just use Topaz at the end of my workflow with only the photos that need it. After thinking about it further, that's what makes the most sense to me. Thanks!


I use LR C and my use of Topaz products is exactly that. I have played with them, and I have seen no advantage of applying Topaz AI first in the workflow.


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## switters (Sep 21, 2022)

Jimmsp said:


> I use LR C and my use of Topaz products is exactly that. I have played with them, and I have seen no advantage of applying Topaz AI first in the workflow.


That's great to know. Thanks.


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## Zenon (Oct 11, 2022)

Since I  lose  access to colour profiles I aways start out with Adobe Colour and apply Auto. Then I have a look at the camera matching profiles and sometimes I stay with Adobe. I also use ISO Adaptive presets so Sharpening, NR, etc are auto applied at import based on each files ISO. That basically gives me a file that is 80% developed. If I choose to use a Topaz app I have presets to reduce or remove sharpening and luminance NR. I then right click on the file,  retain LrC edits and send to Topaz as a TIFF.


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