# Lightroom Camera - HDR



## jgwalter (Dec 29, 2020)

I did a little experimenting with the HDR function in the LR Mobile Camera on my iPhone 11 Pro Max.  I'm not seeing results like anything that I have read.

First, the camera only produces two images, one named (example) APC_1665.dbg and the other APC_1665-hdr.dng.

In the mobile app, the two images look different.  The HDR image appears to benefit from the HDR effect.  The other appears as I would expect a normal, single exposure.

However, when I import these two files into LR Classic, both images appear identical, looking like the normal, single exposure one in the camera.  No HDR effect.

I can't find much that is current about this feature, so I am asking......  'What am I doing wrong?'


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## Rob_Cullen (Dec 29, 2020)

I do not believe you are doing anything "wrong"!
Out of curiosity I just pointed my iPhone Lr camera out the window and took three shots (it is raining heavily!)-
Auto, Pro, HDR.
All three look identical when they appear in Lr-Classic:



 
But the BIG difference is the latitude (or Dynamic Range) that is available in each image.
Comparing just 'Exposure' in the Develop module-
The 'Auto' shot has up to 5 stops of Exposure increase-




The 'HDR' shot has up to 10 stops of Exposure Increase. ie. much greater Dynamic range.




"HDR" Does not mean that your photos have to look differently! But the develop edits have greater latitude to allow you to edit differently.


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## jgwalter (Dec 29, 2020)

I-See-Light said:


> I do not believe you are doing anything "wrong"!
> Out of curiosity I just pointed my iPhone Lr camera out the window and took three shots (it is raining heavily!)-
> Auto, Pro, HDR.
> All three look identical when they appear in Lr-Classic:
> ...



Thanks for the quick response.  I understand the concept of HDR.

First of all, my camera set to HDR is only producing two images, not three.

In LR mobile, the two look different, as I would expect.  





But, when imported into LR, they look identical.





And, while there appear to be some slight develop adjustments made (i don't know why), there are none related to exposure, and are the same on both images.  In LR Mobile, even with different appearing images, the adjustments are identical to those in Classic, and the same for both images.


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## Rob_Cullen (Dec 29, 2020)

My iPhone Lr Camera only takes one photo in each mode! I do not know why you would get two. It is not like images from a DSLR where you take several shots to merge to HDR.
Images shot in the different modes (auto, HDR) might appear to be the same as at their default import, but have you tried adjusting Exposure to the maximum on both images to see the difference in available latitude?


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## jgwalter (Dec 30, 2020)

I-See-Light said:


> My iPhone Lr Camera only takes one photo in each mode! I do not know why you would get two. It is not like images from a DSLR where you take several shots to merge to HDR.
> Images shot in the different modes (auto, HDR) might appear to be the same as at their default import, but have you tried adjusting Exposure to the maximum on both images to see the difference in available latitude?



I don't understand?  You got three images.  How did that happen?

Everything I've read says it should take three photos in HDR mode.  I only see two.

Clearly, I am not understanding something, or doing something wrong????


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## Rob_Cullen (Dec 30, 2020)

I am not sure I understand either :(
But the Lr-Mobile camera TBMK 'Creates' the HDR as ONE image, it does not produce separate images to then merge.
The method for the 3 images I took was-
Open the Lightroom Camera
1) Set the mode to [Auto] took one photo by pressing the shutter button,
2) Set the mode to [Pro] took one photo
3) Set the mode to [HDR] took one photo
The result was the three images (synced down to Lr-Classic) I posted in my first reply. I have been comparing the possibilities of Exposure adjustment between the [Auto] image and the [HDR] image.

And I do not know how you see two! my Camera was set to 'DNG' -might make a difference.
I took a HDR shot of the computer screen and show it on my phone just now- Only one HDR image- taken in HDR mode.



Note the image has 20 stops of Exposure latitude when edited in Lr-Classic.


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## jgwalter (Dec 30, 2020)

I-See-Light said:


> I am not sure I understand either :(
> But the Lr-Mobile camera TBMK 'Creates' the HDR as ONE image, it does not produce separate images to then merge.
> The method for the 3 images I took was-
> Open the Lightroom Camera
> ...



I think I have the answer???

We are talking about two different things.

What you appear to be doing is...... manually merging multiple images to gain the benefit of the various exposures.  I'm not sure why you are doing it the way you describe, but that is not the issue.

Look at this link..... this is what I am trying to understand.   
https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-cc/using/capture-photos-mobile-ios.html#lrmobile-ios-capture-hdr 
I've discovered that the reason I am seeing two image files is that I have the settings set to save the original image.  So, I am getting that image and the HDR image.  

When shooting in the HDR mode, the camera takes multiple images in very quick succession, at varied exposures.  It merges those images into the final HDR image file.

What I haven't figured out yet, is why that image ends up returning to the original image once it is imported into Classic?  Also, while it appears correct in LR Mobile, as soon as I touch a slider (which was set to zero), the enhancements from the HDR disappear.

That's going to need some more study, but at least now I understand why I was getting multiple images.


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 30, 2020)

jgwalter said:


> We are talking about two different things.
> 
> What you appear to be doing is...... manually merging multiple images to gain the benefit of the various exposures.  I'm not sure why you are doing it the way you describe, but that is not the issue.


No, you're not understanding. I-S-L took three separate images, one in Auto mode, one in Pro mode and one in HDR mode. He did NOT merge them into one, he was simply comparing the three images, and was pointing out that while they all appeared similar the HDR image has twice the adjustment latitude of either of the other two (as would be expected from an HDR image).


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## jgwalter (Dec 30, 2020)

Jim Wilde said:


> No, you're not understanding. I-S-L took three separate images, one in Auto mode, one in Pro mode and one in HDR mode. He did NOT merge them into one, he was simply comparing the three images, and was pointing out that while they all appeared similar the HDR image has twice the adjustment latitude of either of the other two (as would be expected from an HDR image).


Thank you for the response.  I do understand.  Now!  At first, I-S-L's comment was confusing, probably because it didn't address the issue that I was trying to understand.  I appreciate what he is trying to describe, but it is unrelated to my question.

I found very little while googling the functions of the LR HDR.  One site that I did find mentioned that the camera took three images, which may have simply been a reference to 'several images', without stating that this was done in the background.  It sort of implied that it would produce three separate files.

During my experiments, I noticed that it was producing two image files, not knowing at the time that one of them was simply the original file, which was there because that was set in the difficult to notice settings panel on the LR Camera.

That is all behind me now, but I still don't understand the problems I am encountering when I import the HDR files into LR.


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 30, 2020)

Several times you've mentioned "import the HDR files into LR". Do you really mean that you used the standard import process to get the HDR image into LrC, or something else? If you did use standard import, how did you get the HDR image to your Mac system?


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## jgwalter (Dec 30, 2020)

Jim Wilde said:


> Several times you've mentioned "import the HDR files into LR". Do you really mean that you used the standard import process to get the HDR image into LrC, or something else? If you did use standard import, how did you get the HDR image to your Mac system?


Automatically imported via the 'Lightroom Mobile Uploads'.  For non-LR Camera (i.e. iPhone Camera) I have a LR Mobile Collection called 'New Images' designated as 'Auto Import' to import everything from my Camera Roll.

As part of my routine workflow, I move those images from the self-generated folders to their permanent home in my archive, and to appropriate collections in LR.

It works nicely, although sometimes there is a sort of 'circular' import issue, for example, when I may share down to my camera roll for distribution somewhere, and it ends up importing to LR again.  Easy enough to notice and correct, however.


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## Rob_Cullen (Dec 30, 2020)

Hi John, (I am back again. And thanks to Jim for his input.)


jgwalter said:


> understand the problems I am encountering when I import the HDR files into LR.





jgwalter said:


> No HDR effect.


Perhaps the answer finally is this IMO- 
 HDR is not that garish, high contrast, strong color images that many have called "HDR".
HDR is an image file type that has a large range of tonality. An image that you can 'pull out' highlights and shadows that might otherwise be lost, or clipped, in a 'standard' image file.
HDR images can be created from multiple shots taken at differing exposures, either automatically (and hidden) by the Lightroom-mobile camera, or by a merge from individual shots in Lr & LrC.
HDR images, at first glance, will NOT appear any different to standard images, until you start to develop them and realize they have the larger dynamic range (as in my exposure comparisons).

Re: the Camera Roll:   I never need to 'Import' any photo taken with my iPhone, whether I use the iPhone camera or the Lightroom camera. Every shot automatically appears in my Cloud photos (for Lr-Mobile and Lr-web) and downloads to my desktop Lr-Classic catalog.
Thanks for your discussion.
Robert


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 31, 2020)

jgwalter said:


> What I haven't figured out yet, is why that image ends up returning to the original image once it is imported into Classic?  Also, while it appears correct in LR Mobile, as soon as I touch a slider (which was set to zero), the enhancements from the HDR disappear.
> 
> That's going to need some more study, but at least now I understand why I was getting multiple images.


I can't figure out why you get that result in Classic either. When I use my iPhone to take an HDR image, the result is - as you experienced - visibly different to the accompanying single DNG. Not unexpected, as Lightroom adds additional adjustments to the HDR image, but those adjustments are reflected in the sliders when looking at the image in Edit mode in LrMobile (you reported that you didn't see any slider adjustments, which is a little baffling).
Subsequently, when the HDR image has synced down into Classic, it remains visibly different to the associated DNG, and the Basic Panel sliders reflect this (i.e. exposure, highlights, shadows, whites have all moved from the neutral position). IOW, everything is working as I expected, so I really have no explantion as to why you are getting the result that you did.....it's almost as though somewhere in the process the HDR image is being reset.

One thing you could try in Classic....select the HDR image and do a "Read Metadata from File" (Metadata menu in Library, or Photo menu in Develop). It would be interesting to know if that reverts the HDR image to the "processed state" that you originally saw in LrMobile.


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## jgwalter (Dec 31, 2020)

Jim Wilde said:


> I can't figure out why you get that result in Classic either. When I use my iPhone to take an HDR image, the result is - as you experienced - visibly different to the accompanying single DNG. Not unexpected, as Lightroom adds additional adjustments to the HDR image, but those adjustments are reflected in the sliders when looking at the image in Edit mode in LrMobile (you reported that you didn't see any slider adjustments, which is a little baffling).
> Subsequently, when the HDR image has synced down into Classic, it remains visibly different to the associated DNG, and the Basic Panel sliders reflect this (i.e. exposure, highlights, shadows, whites have all moved from the neutral position). IOW, everything is working as I expected, so I really have no explantion as to why you are getting the result that you did.....it's almost as though somewhere in the process the HDR image is being reset.
> 
> One thing you could try in Classic....select the HDR image and do a "Read Metadata from File" (Metadata menu in Library, or Photo menu in Develop). It would be interesting to know if that reverts the HDR image to the "processed state" that you originally saw in LrMobile.


Jim, 

Thank you.  I did some tests.

Yes, it does seem to reset.

1.  Test photo appears in LR Mobile as two image files.  The HDR image is noticeably better than the original as you would expect, but the sliders are identical, pretty much zero. (not sure why there are some minor adjustments in each ex. Whites +15, Black -5, and a couple of others.)

2.  As it imports (syncs) to Classic, the HDR image thumbnail in Library View appears the same as in LR Mobile for only a moment, quickly changing to look the same as the original.  Sliders are all identical to Mobile.

3.  As you suggested, 'Reading Metadata from File' on the HDR image returns the thumbnail back to what the mobile version looks like and changes the sliders to what you would expect for HDR adjustments.  It then, of course, syncs back to mobile with those changes.  In Classic, on the thumbnail was a down arrow, which is the opposite of what I am doing when I read meta from the file.  It did warn me of the overwrite.

BTW..... I realize that my test image is probably not the best example of HDR use, and results will vary, but applying an 'Auto' adjustment in Develop to the original results in nearly identical sliders and appearance to the HDR image on its own.


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 31, 2020)

I think the problem is occurring in the Mobile app. If the HDR and the Original images differ, as would be likely, then the develop sliders should also be different. If they're not (they are in my Mobile app) that's probably where things are going wrong. It might be worth deleting and reinstalling the Mobile app and trying again (after it's all synced up again).

A couple of other points:

The small adjustments to see for normal unadjusted images are the Adobe defaults for that particular phone, I believe.

I'm not surprised that applying Auto to the original image results in a similar appearance to the HDR image (because part of the HDR processing would be doing something like an Auto adjustment). The key difference between the two is that the HDR image will have the increased dynamic range, which gives you far more latitude to push the sliders to create your own personal HDR "look".


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## jgwalter (Dec 31, 2020)

Jim Wilde said:


> I think the problem is occurring in the Mobile app. If the HDR and the Original images differ, as would be likely, then the develop sliders should also be different. If they're not (they are in my Mobile app) that's probably where things are going wrong. It might be worth deleting and reinstalling the Mobile app and trying again (after it's all synced up again).
> 
> A couple of other points:
> 
> ...



I reinstalled the mobile app as you suggested.  At first, I thought it did the trick?  But what it did, besides resetting the file numbering to zero, is changed the format from 3:2 to 4:3.  The develop setting reset issue disappeared, BUT, when I changed the camera format back to my preferred 3:2, the reset problem returned.  (still able to read meta to retrieve).  Setting it back to 4:3, and the reset issue disappeared.

So, that appears to be a glitch in the mobile app????


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 31, 2020)

jgwalter said:


> So, that appears to be a glitch in the mobile app????


Yup, definitely a bug I would say. I can confirm it when the aspect ratio is set to 3:2. You can either report it youself at the official Adobe site (link at the top of the page), or if you prefer I can do it on an internal system, which may catch the engineers attention a bit quicker.


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## jgwalter (Dec 31, 2020)

Jim Wilde said:


> Yup, definitely a bug I would say. I can confirm it when the aspect ratio is set to 3:2. You can either report it youself at the official Adobe site (link at the top of the page), or if you prefer I can do it on an internal system, which may catch the engineers attention a bit quicker.


Seems to make sense for you to report it??  

Thank you very much for all of your help.


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 31, 2020)

Yep, no worries. I'll do that tomorrow.


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