# D500 NEF imports very noisy



## MANDEEP MISTRY (Jul 5, 2017)

Hi All,

I recently upgraded to D500 to take advantage of its high ISO performance since I shoot with a tele-zoom which requires high shutter speeds.
After importing the NEFs into Lightroom, I was extremely disappointed to see most shots appear super-grainy and apparent noise visible even at acceptable ISOs in the range of 1000-3200 even for well lit shots.
Am I missing anything during the import?


----------



## Johan Elzenga (Jul 5, 2017)

Lightroom does not apply noise reduction on import, so you have to do this afterwards. Try it, because it's pretty good. Only then you can make any judgements.


----------



## MANDEEP MISTRY (Jul 5, 2017)

The results post noise reduction are relatively better, no doubt. However, seeing visible noise at ISO 1200-1600 in good-light photos is something that comes as a surprise. Moreover, when I see the images in the Windows (v10) default photo viewer, the images appear much better (very little noise).
Has it got something to do with the camera profile / color space etc?


----------



## Gnits (Jul 5, 2017)

Just to avoid the obvious..... make sure you have the Process set to the latest possible.




I always check the effect of different profiles with a new camera and then set my import presets accordingly. For example, with Canon I prefer the Landscape option. YMMV.

I am not sure if the profiles will make much difference to noise, but the Process  might. 

It may also be worth setting up your own controlled test with a range of Iso values and see for yourself where your comfortable cut off zone might be.

Finally, you should look at the histogram of the raw image before any exposure adjustments.  Getting the optimum exposure will probably have the biggest impact on the level of noise.   Setting up your own test scenario will allow you to eliminate various variables.


----------



## Johan Elzenga (Jul 5, 2017)

MANDEEP MISTRY said:


> The results post noise reduction are relatively better, no doubt. However, seeing visible noise at ISO 1200-1600 in good-light photos is something that comes as a surprise. Moreover, when I see the images in the Windows (v10) default photo viewer, the images appear much better (very little noise).
> Has it got something to do with the camera profile / color space etc?



Assuming that you shoot raw, you are comparing apples and oranges. Lightroom generates a preview from the raw file, and that preview has no noise reduction yet. Windows Photo Viewer shows you the built-in camera preview, which is processed already and includes noise reduction.


----------



## clee01l (Jul 5, 2017)

I do not know what your previous camera was before the D500, but your expectations may be based upon Nikon marketing hype.  I have a D810 w/36mp and considerably more sensitive to noise than the D500.  A RAW image (if you could see it) is flat, toneless and somewhat noisy. In converting the RAW photo sites into RGB pixels requires some development to produce a viewable image. So the initial image that you see in LR is partially developed.  I don't agree with Johan about noise adjustment because some is applied.  

When processing NEFs using anything other than Nikons post processing software created by SilkyPix, you should turn off the Active D-Lighting.   Lightroom has its own algorithms to compensate for local low light and high light adjustments.  Active D-Lighting generated a local photo site adjustment value to boost ISO for darks and reduce the ISO in areas that might come out overblown.  Lightroom can not read these compensation values and the results may not be satisfactory in dark areas of thephoto. 

My D810 is better at higher ISOs than my D800E.  I expect your D500 to be similar if not a little better than the D810.   That said, I rarely set the camera ISO to values greater than ISO1000 for normal shooting.  ISO 1600 in well lit events is tolerable straight out of the camera with little additional development when imported into LR. I never set the camera beyond ISO3200 because Noise removal for the results ends up with a "plastic" smoothness over the whole image that causes detail to drop out. 

If you shoot into shadow, there results will be noisy.  This is because the post processor is trying to amplify the individual pixels and ends up amplifying the noisy pixels more than the surrounding nearly black pixels. 

I have shot at ISO 6400 virtually noise free with little LR post processing. And I have shot at ISO400 with very noisy results.    One of the factors that affect noise is ambient camera temperature.  If it is a hot day (>32˚C, 90˚F)  the camera will produce noisier images. (IOW, any day where I live between June1 and October 1)  This is amplified if your black camera is setting in the hot sun for any length of time 

So in summary. Turn off Active D-Lighting. Shoot no higher than ISO1600 in normal well lit situations. If you need to go higher than ISO1200, expect to apply some noise correction in LR. Pay attention to the ambient temperatures.  Keep your camera cool.  Don't believe the advertising hype.


----------



## Johan Elzenga (Jul 5, 2017)

clee01l said:


> I do not know what your previous camera was before the D500, but your expectations may be based upon Nikon marketing hype.  I have a D810 w/36mp and considerably more sensitive to noise than the D500.  A RAW image (if you could see it) is flat, toneless and somewhat noisy. In converting the RAW photo sites into RGB pixels requires some development to produce a viewable image. So the initial image that you see in LR is partially developed.  I don't agree with Johan about noise adjustment because some is applied.



Please don't split hairs, that doesn't help the OP. Yes, a low amount of noise reduction may be applied in the initial demosaicing, and the default setting is 25 color noise reduction, but the default for luminance noise reduction is zero. And in-camera high-ISO noise reduction does have an effect on the built-in preview, but not on the raw file. 

If the OP sees a clear difference between Lightroom and Windows Photo Viewer, then your whole story about what makes an image noisy or not is irrelevant. While that does explain why some images are more noisy than others, it does not explain the difference between the same image in two applications.


----------



## clee01l (Jul 5, 2017)

JohanElzenga said:


> If the OP sees a clear difference between Lightroom and Windows Photo Viewer,


  As you have already said, is a result of looking at the in camera processed JPEG preview and the LR generated RGB file.   What makes a noisy image in a Nikon NEF is based upon my experience with three different Nikon cameras and two pentax models.  It is relevant to NEFs.  That Nikon processes the noise out of the in camera JPEG is a reflection of Nikon's processing algorithms and will not affect the processing that is necessary in LR to bring an RGB file to a fully processed state. 
IMO the most likely contributor is ADL set to on in the camera.


----------



## LRList001 (Jul 7, 2017)

MANDEEP MISTRY said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I recently upgraded to D500 to take advantage of its high ISO performance since I shoot with a tele-zoom which requires high shutter speeds.
> After importing the NEFs into Lightroom, I was extremely disappointed to see most shots appear super-grainy and apparent noise visible even at acceptable ISOs in the range of 1000-3200 even for well lit shots.
> Am I missing anything during the import?



Don't know if this is relevant.  Noise is also a function of how many photons hit the sensor site while the shutter is open.  If you are expecting marvels in a black/dark part of the image, you might be up against a physical limit, which no sensor can overcome (there will always be a limit, no matter what sensor technology is used).  The raw file is more likely to reveal this.


----------



## clee01l (Jul 8, 2017)

LRList001 said:


> The raw file is more likely to reveal this.


All images start out as a RAW file,  even those where a Processed JPEG is produced in the camera and the RAW file is not saved.  One of the goals in all image processors is to remove noise.  If the JPEG from the camera is the only image that you see, then you can be sure that the manufacturer has tuned the in camera processor to remove as much noise as possible before saving the JPEG  An app like LR working on the RAW file from the camera will expose more of the noise present to the person making the processing decisions


----------



## LouieSherwin (Jul 8, 2017)

You should also double check your exposure. If you are underexposed even as little as 1/2 stop you significantly increase the amount of noise visible in the raw image. For an average scene you want the histogram to be pushed all the way over to the right side. If there is a gap on the right  side then you are probably underexposing and the inherent noise of the camera will become more noticeable.

If the D500 will display the histogram on playback  you can use the in camera histogram to evaluate on site. Just use the exposure compensation on the camera to move the histogram to the right, increase exposure or to the left decrease exposure.  You can also do the same in the camera offers live view with a histogram display.

It is important to note that the in camera histogram and over exposure warnings are based on the in camera JPG not the raw file so you actually have headroom than appears on the camera. On my Canon 7D and 5D3 and my Sony A7R2 I consistently push the histogram to touching the right side with some black on the Canons and blinkies on the Sony over exposure warnings showing. When taken into Lightroom these usually show no over exposure in raw file. If there is any it is often just specular highlights or is easily handled by the highlight reduction slider.

-louie


----------



## LRList001 (Jul 9, 2017)

Given the D500 is noted for its excellent noise performance, there are some other possibilities as to what might be wrong:

1/  The camera is in some way defective (though as the jpegs are ok, this seems unlikely)
2/  While you say you are at ISO 1,000-3,200, is there any chance you are at 10,000-32,000? (Given the native range is ISO 100 to 51200, with -1EV and +5EV available (50-1,640,000), just asking)
3/  Are you in the right NEF mode?  The D500 supports various NEF formats - NEF (RAW): 12 or 14 bit (lossless compressed, compressed, or uncompressed); large, medium, and small available (medium and small images are recorded at a bit depth of 12 bits using lossless compression); you should be in 14 bit large lossless compressed (or uncompressed) before evaluating the D500's performance.

BTW Louie, Nikon cameras display a histogram.  Perhaps there is a DSLR that doesn't but all the brands I have met recently do.


----------

