# New Camera Question



## Unbroken Chain (Oct 15, 2012)

Folks,

I am in the market for a digital SLR and wanted any/all input on the Cannon EOS 60D body with the EF 100 mm f2 lens or the EF 85mm f1.8. My primary interest is portraiture and I currently do not own a digital camera. I know, this is weird. I may be one of the few lightroom users in the world who does not own a digital camera. So far, everything I have done in LR is to work with scans of my old Kodachrome slides. I am ready to take the plunge and buy a camera. I know this isn't a camera forum, but I am not a member of one and I KNOW there are a lot of photographers here.

My specific questions are:
- is there a LR profile for this camera and lens(es)?
- is this is good "starter" camera and lens for someone who wants to get back into portraiture after taking years off photography? (I am a recovering film photographer)
- I am considering buying a refurbished camera direct from Cannon which would save me $100. Good idea? Bad idea?  Why?
- I would appreciate any/all input, especially if you own this specific camera or lens

Thanks in advance,
UC


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## Replytoken (Oct 15, 2012)

While I cannot give advice on that specific model of camera, I would recommend that you try and decide how deep of a "system" you wish to purchase. A big problem for many is the continual "buying up" of equipment. It adds up quite quickly. The two focal lengths of the lenses that you mentioned are certainly traditional for portraits, so unless you "need" a f/1.4 lens, you will probably be fine if those focal lengths are comfortable for you (and assuming that the 60D is full frame). If you are planning on using lights/strobes, make sure that your camera body will work for you with regards to triggering and or metering units. I know that some of Nikon's entry-level bodies do not offer Commander mode for flash, and that would be a problem for some. By and large, most of the new DSLR's seem to offer greater dynamic range and high ISO capabilities than slightly older models. If your do not need either of these features, then you will probably be choosing on features.

Good luck,

--Ken


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## Randy McKown (Oct 15, 2012)

Since you're coming from film, keep in mind the 60D is not a full frame camera. There is a 1.6 crop factor. This means a 100mm lens is going to feel like a 160mm. The idea that 85 & 100 lenses are great for portraiture was determined before crop sensors were invented. If portraits are the main goal you should really consider throwing a 35 or 50 in your bag as well.

I shoot Nikon but looking at the 60D specs it would be a descent starter. If you're goal is to do portrait sessions on a regular basis, I would recommend the camera, 35mm & 85mm to start, a descent flash like the Canon 580 EX II with a modifier such as the gary fong light sphere, a photovision target for custom white balance and a generic 4x6 foot white/gold or white/silver reflector. That basic setup will allow you to work properly in a large range of conditions.

and yeah I've purchased many factory refurbs over the years .. never had an issue with any of them.


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## Replytoken (Oct 16, 2012)

Since Randy has confirmed that the 60D is a crop frame sensor (DX in the land of Nikon), you may want to see if Canon has some type of 60mm lens similar to Nikon's AF-S micro-nikkor (but which also happens to be a good portrait lens if you prefer razor-sharp images).  If not then the 85 would work, although much of your lens selection depends on your personal taste.  For a while, there was a trend to use really long lenses, like the 300mm f/2.8 to do protraits.  To each their own.

--Ken


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## Randy McKown (Oct 16, 2012)

LOL because the 300 2.8 made you "look" more professional. I love seeing portrait photographers trying to shoot clients ... from across the street. "Tilt Your Head !!!" .. "What???" .. "I said Tilt Your Head !!!"


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## Tony Jay (Oct 16, 2012)

Going through the issues raised:

There are lens profiles for the lenses listed by you.
I am not sure what you mean by camera profiles but Lightroom recognises 60D RAW files if that is what you were referring to.
With regards to the 60D's suitability as a portrait camera it should be fine. If you shot with 35 mmm film cameras then the image quality and resolution is way way better. As mentioned the 60D sensor has a 1.6 X crop factor, however, the depth of field is unaltered.
The 60D has depth of field preview (lacking in the DX00 series cameras), use it in conjunction with live view for critical focusing - this is a power combination.
I do not have any experience with refurbished cameras.

Regards

Tony Jay


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## Unbroken Chain (Oct 16, 2012)

Full frame?  I am not familiar with this terminology.  Can somebody explain what it means?  I can intuit generally what you are talking about from the context of the conversation, but I guess I would like a little more info.  Should I be looking at purchasing a full frame camera?  I'm guessing that the price will be an issue for me...

I apologize for the newbie question, but I've never owned a digital SLR and don't understand some of the features and their pros and cons.

UC


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## Tony Jay (Oct 16, 2012)

A 'full-frame' sensor has teh same dimensions as 35 mm film that you may be familiar with.
The sensor in the Canon 60D is smaller (typing this I cannot remember exactly how much smaller).
The effect of this smaller sensor is to apparently magnify any image shot with a given lens of a given focal length.
To wit, a 50 mm lens will behave like a 80 mm lens as far as reach is concerned but the depth of field will be unaffected.

As to whether a full-frame is required the answer is: it depends.
There may be advantages to using a camera with a smaller sensor for portraiture.
Given the advances in sensor technology currently you may not really notice any difference in image quality between the 60D sensor and say the 5D III (full frame).

Before you jump in and buy any camera I would suggest a lot of research on the web to get much more familiar with the technology and terminology of digital imaging.
I don't know where you live and I don't know what is avavilable to you in terms of specialist camera stores but if you can go and discuss your needs with them (not to buy necessarily but to get informed).
Do some research and then come back with more questions is my advice.

Regards

Tony Jay


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## clee01l (Oct 16, 2012)

In the 35mm film days, a frame was 36X24mm so a "full frame" was 36X24 mm.  Digital sensors replaced film and were costly so, camera manufacturers started developing digital cameras with sensors that are smaller. The smallest size for an early DSLR that could hold at least 6mp was ~24X16mm or about 67% of the size of a "full frame".  The industry designation for this size is APS-C.  Point and shoot cameras typically have much smaller sensors. The sensor for the iPhone is even smaller at 3.56mm X 2.68mm!
Here's a link that explains the differences http://www.uscoles.com/sensorsandlenses.pdf

Now photo sites on sensors are much closer spaced and hence more mp with the same size sensor. Also sensor prices have dropped to a point where a "full-frame" camera can have 36mp and still cost less than $3000.


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## Randy McKown (Oct 16, 2012)

cheapest full frames actually just came out on the market .. the Nikon D600 and the Canon 6D .. both are $2,100.


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## Unbroken Chain (Oct 16, 2012)

As I suspected.  Way out of my price range for my first digital camera.


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## clee01l (Oct 16, 2012)

Unbroken Chain said:


> As I suspected.  Way out of my price range for my first digital camera.


 There are other options If full frame is not in your pocketbook, there are other Canon models that sell new for $600 or less.  These are all going to be APS-C sized sensors.  Also there are equivalent cameras at similar prices by Nikon, Pentax, Samsung, Sony and others.  And because there are many folks out there that just have to have the latest model, you can find good barely used DSLRs at deep discounts.  You might try checking Craigslist or Ebay, or even your local camera store.


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## Unbroken Chain (Oct 17, 2012)

Tony Jay said:


> There are lens profiles for the lenses listed by you.
> I am not sure what you mean by camera profiles but Lightroom recognises 60D RAW files if that is what you were referring to.



I thought there were camera profiles for specific cameras in LR, as well as lens profiles.  Am I incorrect?


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## Jim Wilde (Oct 17, 2012)

For every camera that Lightroom supports, an "Adobe Standard" profile is created (which is camera-specific, albeit with the same name), which will provide Adobe's default rendering of the Raw files from that camera. Additionally, but only for some cameras, Adobe have created additional profiles which attempt to replicate the 'picture styles' that are available when using the in-camera rendering. Specifically for the 60D there are five additional profiles in addition to the Adobe Standard.

And again for lens profiles, Adobe have created a lot but by no means a complete set of profiles, mainly for Raw files only, with a minority for Jpeg files. 

With both camera and lens profiles, the capability exists to 'roll your own' if you prefer.


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## Unbroken Chain (Oct 17, 2012)

Great answer...thanks!  As I mentioned earlier in this post, I am in the hunt for my first digital SLR and the question of these profiles will soon be important to me.


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## Replytoken (Oct 17, 2012)

If you are on a budget, live in the US, and are looking for a Canon crop-frame DSLR, see if there is a near-by Ritz camera that is going out of business.  They are liquidating merchandise, and I was able to acquire a new T3 w/kit lens for a friend at an amazing price.

--Ken


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## LouieSherwin (Oct 18, 2012)

Hi,

If I were you I would skip the 60D and look for a good used 5D for less money. It is a full frame sensor and will perfectly match either choice of lenses. Although the the 5D has a slightly lower pixel count it has a much better sensor with less noise. Overall your image quality will be better with the 5D with the 60D. 

If you are uncomfortable with buying on eBay then you can get really good used equipment that come with a 90 day warrantys from several places. I personally have purchased many items from KEH.com. They have a constantly updated inventory of used equipment. Any item with a rating of EX (excellent) or better is going to be in almost new condition.  You can also purchased additional warranty up to a year as I recall for anything you purchase from them. Adorama and B&H also have used gear but not nearly as many items.

-louie


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