# Lightroom 5.4 when?



## looks (Mar 5, 2014)

Hi,

I have the new Fuji X-T1 camera and I am waiting for his support in LR. The new Camera Raw support now this camera. Now I am waiting for Lightroom 5.4 and I don't understand why Adobe wait so long to bring a beta or RC version. Know somebody more when it will be released?
Also I don't understand why Adobe not change Lr to a plugin System like Photoshop for Camera Raw. It would be more easy for adobe to release the new Camera and objektiv support.


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## Tony Jay (Mar 5, 2014)

Welcome to Lightroom forums

It won't be far off, but anyone who REALLY knows when will not say, and those that speculate don't know.

Tony Jay


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## looks (Mar 5, 2014)

Hi Tony,
Thanks for the welcome. Yes you are right. But I need it for my photos in raw and I have now only this camera. I thought after the cameraraw Rc release LR will follow directly, but they wait...


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## Tony Jay (Mar 5, 2014)

Be patient - it will be wortht a small wait.

Tony Jay


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## Jim Wilde (Mar 5, 2014)

In the meantime you could use the latest DNG Converter RC to convert your X-T1 raw files to DNG, which LR5.3 will then be able to import.


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## looks (Mar 5, 2014)

I know this possibility, but I heard that the quality of this DNG's are not so good like CR & PS. well i can wairt some days, but then I have a shooting and it would be good when I can use my normal workflow with LR. Thanks Jim & Tony for your response


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## Hal P Anderson (Mar 5, 2014)

DNGs have _*exactly*_ the same image quality as your original raw file. Wherever you heard that they don't was incorrect.


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## clee01l (Mar 5, 2014)

looks said:


> ...but I heard that the quality of this DNG's are not so good like CR & PS....


First, the DNG converter only takes the raw data out of the proprietary envelope and repackages it in a non proprietary envelope. There is no change in quality of the data.  Second, there is only ACR to manage RAW data files.  It is used in PS and LR exactly the same just with a slightly different interface. Your Fuji X-T1 proprietary RAW format needs to be reverse engineered before Adobe can work with that file format.  This takes time and testing. It is for this reason that we have ACR8.4RC. to test and work out the bugs. Usually Adobe releases the ACR engine in a LR RC version the same time that ACR RC is released.  This time they did not.  This ACR decimal release is different from most of the previous decimal releases. ACR8.4 has new functionality in addition to camera and lens updates. I understand that CS6 users will only get ACR8.4 with camera and lens updates and not the added functionality. New functionality usually means a full number release and an upgrade price while decimal releases are free.  We all just need to practice patience.


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## Harley_Rider (Mar 5, 2014)

I've been considering the Fuji X-T1 and didn't realize Fuji change their RAF format for this camera.   It has the XTrans sensor, so thought the format was the same as the other X series.  LR has no problem reading the RAF from my X-E1.  Time to do more research...


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## Jim Wilde (Mar 5, 2014)

Fuji may not change the raw format, but the Lightroom team have no way of knowing this as it is proprietary information....although for sure *something *is changed because if not then you would be able to import them now, right? In the absence of any detailed information being provided by the camera manufacturers about the specifics of the raw format of their individual cameras, then Adobe have no option other than to get hold of a new camera and then reverse engineer the raw files in order to develop a model-specific camera profile. That takes some time, so in most cases there is an inevitable delay between camera release and the profile being developed....and then the release of that profile into Lightroom also has to fit into the typical three-monthly release cycle.


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## clee01l (Mar 5, 2014)

Harley_Rider said:


> I've been considering the Fuji X-T1 and didn't realize Fuji change their RAF format for this camera.   It has the XTrans sensor, so thought the format was the same as the other X series.  LR has no problem reading the RAF from my X-E1.  Time to do more research...


All new camera models with proprietary file formats are initially incompatible with ACR.  Sometimes the only change in the format may be the model name in the EXIF. ACR needs this to determining what demosaic algorithms  to use for Fujifilm cameras and converting to RGB. The X-Trans sensor is unique to the camera world and  the algorithms may differ from one Fujifilem model to the next. Sometimes there is more- proprietary data in the Manufactures notes section of the EXIF.  While ACR and LR does not use the Mfg Notes section, the length is variable and this might throw off the start position of the data block. All of these this combine to make a new version of ACR necessary to support each new camera. 
Personally, I would not hesitate to get an X-T1 and I certainly would not let a temporary incompatibility with LR get in the way.


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## Bill Guy (Mar 6, 2014)

Forget updates, when is Lightroom 6 coming out.


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## Roelof Moorlag (Mar 6, 2014)

> Forget updates, when is Lightroom 6 coming out.


When i look at the previous versions of Lightroom:
1.0 jan 2007
2.0 juli 2008
3.0 okt 2009
4.0 mrt 2012
5.0 apr 2013

It always took longer than one year...
So, i'm not expecting version 6 earlier then summer


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## Denis de Gannes (Mar 6, 2014)

Harley_Rider said:


> I've been considering the Fuji X-T1 and didn't realize Fuji change their RAF format for this camera.   It has the XTrans sensor, so thought the format was the same as the other X series.  LR has no problem reading the RAF from my X-E1.  Time to do more research...



You can be sure that Fuji has made changes with this new camera model. Why would you purchase a new model if there were no improvements to the image quality output? Why would they issue a new model? There are changes! The evolution of digital photography is rapidly improving, be it the sensor or the processing of the sensor information. 

Adobe, DxO Optics, Capture One and others are all trying to provide competitive options than what is provided by your camera manufacturer. This is what is so beneficial from shooting in raw mode, the ability to utilize many options. Just as you may wish to do when go fine dining with the wife.


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## Jezzamk (Mar 12, 2014)

I don't think much, if anything has changed in the Fuji X-T1 RAW file. If you use an Exif Editor to change the camera model within the Exif from X-T1 to X-E2 it opens in lightroom 5.3.

A lot of messing about but it may help.

I am not convinced about DNG, I read that it has to demosaic Fuji files first (I don't know enough to say if this is right or wrong). I am converting to DNG but keeping the original Raw files for when 5.4 is available.

I suppose that is the price I have to pay for being impatient and wanting an X-T1 so soon. It won't make me a better photographer but with all the dials on top it is so much easier than changing settings via menus.


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## Tony Jay (Mar 13, 2014)

Jezzamk said:


> I don't think much, if anything has changed in the Fuji X-T1 RAW file. If you use an Exif Editor to change the camera model within the Exif from X-T1 to X-E2 it opens in lightroom 5.3.
> 
> A lot of messing about but it may help.
> 
> ...


Actually, any sensor that uses a Bayer array will need its RAW file demosaiced during the RAW conversion process otherwise it will be unusable!
There are only a couple of camera models with sensors that do not use Bayer arrays available currently.

Tony Jay


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## Allan Olesen (Mar 14, 2014)

Tony Jay said:


> Actually, any sensor that uses a Bayer array will need its RAW file demosaiced during the RAW conversion process otherwise it will be unusable!


First, the Fuji cameras with X-Trans sensor do not use a Bayer array. They do use a colour filter array, but it is not a Bayer array. The colours are arranged differently.

Second, the point here is that for these sensors, Adobe's products some time ago, around Lightroom 4.3 or 4.4, actually stored the demosaiced data in the DNG instead of storing the real raw data. Also known as a linear DNG.

Apparently, the first version of Adobe's demosaicing algorithm for X-Trans was really bad, and Adobe improved it a few months later. However, those users who had converted to DNG and did not keep a copy of their original raw files or embed them in the DNGs had lost their option of using the new algorithm on their old files.

I don't know if the behaviour of saving demosaiced data to the DNGs has changed since then.


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## Tony Jay (Mar 15, 2014)

Allan Olesen said:


> First, the Fuji cameras with X-Trans sensor do not use a Bayer array. They do use a colour filter array, but it is not a Bayer array. The colours are arranged differently.
> 
> Second, the point here is that for these sensors, Adobe's products some time ago, around Lightroom 4.3 or 4.4, actually stored the demosaiced data in the DNG instead of storing the real raw data. Also known as a linear DNG.
> 
> ...


Interesting info - all noted.

Tony Jay


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## JimHess43 (Mar 15, 2014)

Even if nothing changed as far as the sensor is concerned, the camera would still be incompatible with Lightroom because Lightroom uses the camera model as the identifier that tells what profile should be displayed. So, unfortunately, if you aren't willing to use the DNG converter you will have to wait until Adobe releases an update. But even if you use the DNG converter, you will still have your original RAF files that you can use when the update is finally released. It's a win/win situation as far as I can see.


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## Denis de Gannes (Mar 16, 2014)

Quote "But even if you use the DNG converter, you will still have your original  RAF files that you can use when the update is finally released. It's a  win/win situation as far as I can see."

When you use the DNG converter the profile for the camera would be made available within the created DNG file so it can be processed with earlier versions of ACR and LR? Is this correct. 
If the camera profile is updated / changed are you able to render a new DNG file with the updated profile if you have not retained the original RAW file?


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## JimHess43 (Mar 16, 2014)

Denis, Of coarse the answer to your question about using the DNG converter and making files that are compatible with earlier versions of ACR in Lightroom is YES. But, since that camera is now supported in the latest release candidate of the DNG converter, I was suggesting that the OP could use that option to get what I would consider preliminary raw support until the Lightroom update becomes available. Of coarse it would be necessary to retain the original raw files in order to regenerate new DNG files if necessary. The you have raised an interesting question. If the DNG profile is updated it since and me that it would be updated when installing the new Lightroom and should have effect on already generated DNG files. But I don't know the answer to that question. At any rate, if DNG is part of one's workflow, It seems to only make sense to retain the original raw files in case things change drastically in the future.


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## Denis de Gannes (Mar 16, 2014)

Thanks for the clarification Jim.


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## Jknights (Mar 18, 2014)

I too have an XT1 and came here in an attempt to find out why Adobe are reluctant to release LR5.4 Release Candidate but it seems that Adobe have not provided any information on this change of release strategy.

For me it is either a general strategy decision that indicates that this will be a future trend or else LR6 is to be released at or about the same time as the ACR8.4 becomes final release.  I think that this is a big departure from the past where Adobe released new version betas which is good for us as customers but the accountants probably see this as wasted effort!  

So without speculating which is wild guessing I can only add my frustration to the pot!
I really cant abide the thought of using DNG when I want the RAW file to be processed.  DNG Converter provides the same processing as if you were processing directly to TIFF.  For me I prefer to use ACR and a droplet or Batch Converter to process the files then view the JPG output and re-edit in either LR or PS.


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 19, 2014)

Adobe haven't announced why they've delayed the 5.4 RC, but there is a good reason for the unusual behavior.  All will become clear.  Sorry it's frustrating for those awaiting new cameras though!


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## Jknights (Mar 20, 2014)

Victoria Bampton said:


> Adobe haven't announced why they've delayed the 5.4 RC, but there is a good reason for the unusual behavior.  All will become clear.  Sorry it's frustrating for those awaiting new cameras though!



Frustrating to say the least as it means I will have a stack of cataloguing to do when they finally release a product that sees my XT1 files.  

A thought..... Can I catalog in Bridge ?  I have never liked it but needs must as I have over 3000 images to catalog.  In another month even with mixed camera use it will be 6000 and getting to be a long job that needs a whole day spent on it - fate almost worse than death!


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## looks (Mar 5, 2014)

Hi,

I have the new Fuji X-T1 camera and I am waiting for his support in LR. The new Camera Raw support now this camera. Now I am waiting for Lightroom 5.4 and I don't understand why Adobe wait so long to bring a beta or RC version. Know somebody more when it will be released?
Also I don't understand why Adobe not change Lr to a plugin System like Photoshop for Camera Raw. It would be more easy for adobe to release the new Camera and objektiv support.


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## Tony Jay (Mar 20, 2014)

Jknights said:


> Frustrating to say the least as it means I will have a stack of cataloguing to do when they finally release a product that sees my XT1 files.
> 
> *A thought..... Can I catalog in Bridge?*  I have never liked it but needs must as I have over 3000 images to catalog.  In another month even with mixed camera use it will be 6000 and getting to be a long job that needs a whole day spent on it - fate almost worse than death!



Yes you can do metadata acquisition in Bridge but as you already allude to it is a bit klutzy.

Tony Jay


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## clee01l (Mar 20, 2014)

Jknights said:


> ...A thought..... Can I catalog in Bridge ?


 Bridge does not "catalog". You can add metadata to the XML section of the file if the master original files supports adding metadata or Bridge will create an XML sidecar file.  But Bridge makes no attempt to manage your file inventory.
 It just regurgitates the folder structure provided to it by the file system.


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## Jknights (Mar 21, 2014)

Sorry I should have been more descriptive about my thought!   
I meant can I Keyword and Star Rate images in Bridge?  I want XMP sidecar files so other applications can also seem them.

I really should do a test myself but I'm busy with other stuff and then again until LR5.4 comes I cant test it so I dont want to commit loads of effort to find it is wasted.


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## Tony Jay (Mar 21, 2014)

Jknights said:


> Sorry I should have been more descriptive about my thought!
> I* meant can I Keyword and Star Rate images in Bridge?  I want XMP sidecar files so other applications can also seem them.*
> 
> I really should do a test myself but I'm busy with other stuff and then again until LR5.4 comes I cant test it so I dont want to commit loads of effort to find it is wasted.


Yes you can.

Tony Jay


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## Jknights (Mar 21, 2014)

Tony Jay said:


> Yes you can.
> 
> Tony Jay



Thanks Tony.
I'll spend an hour or three doing that and save myself a whole day indoors later when I have many thousands to do.
Much appreciated.


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## Jknights (Mar 22, 2014)

1500+ images keyworded and rated.  
Will refine when I have a version of Lightroom that works with Fuji XT1 RAW files.

Thanks.


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## Tony Jay (Mar 22, 2014)

Good Stuff!

Tony Jay


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## mrgooch (Mar 25, 2014)

Sure could use a firmware update.


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