# Not really a LR subject...



## Braders (Dec 20, 2007)

but thought i would ask anyway due to the level of knowledge here.

Am going to the snow for the first time.

Would love some direction as to how to shoot the snow with the correct white balance and exposure. Any resource material you would recommend?

And, after the shoot, i am sure i will find a related LR question!


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## DonRicklin (Dec 20, 2007)

I moved the thread here, for the Lounge is The place fo such general discussions.

First are you shooting Raw? If so, don't worry about the white balance, you can get it correct in LR. As to Exposure, since you might get extremes with shadowing or want to be sure to get detail, I would bracket or shoot slightly under so as to not blow out on your whites!

Don


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## rcannonp (Dec 20, 2007)

Shoot under? If the meter is reading all of that white snow and trying to make it 18% gray then you're going to get underexposed pictures aren't you. Shooting under from that would make it worse.


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## DonRicklin (Dec 20, 2007)

rcannonp said:


> Shoot under? If the meter is reading all of that white snow and trying to make it 18% gray then you're going to get underexposed pictures aren't you. Shooting under from that would make it worse.


Doh!

You are absolutely right, Cannon. I was out of my head when I wrote that. I was thinking one thing and writing the opposite! 

Glad you came along and caught my faux pas!



Don


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## rcannonp (Dec 20, 2007)

Looks like that photo education was good for something.


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## Steve Holmes (Dec 20, 2007)

I find that shooting in snow, I often need to add +1-1.5 exposure compensation to get the snow to turn from gray to white. You do have to be careful not to overexpose with this.

If the image isn't completely snow, I find evaluative or matrix metering often nails the exposure pretty well.


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## Braders (Dec 21, 2007)

Thanks Don for moving, forgot about the lounge.

Yes shooting RAW...and Don while i do love the ability to change the WB as i choose in LR, i still like to live by the "Shoot it correct straight out of the camera" and have to do less work later.

As for the Exp...now i am a little confused. 

If i eval meter the snow and take the photo at this reading then the snow will apear 18% grey and all else will appear underexposed, however ensure that the white snow's not blown out...right?

If i stop +1.5-2 above the eval meters recommendations then the snow will appear more white, however putting it in danger of blowing out the highlights?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/exposing_snow.shtml

Found this from LL


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## rcannonp (Dec 21, 2007)

You'll just have to check your histogram as you are shooting. I would guess that 1.5 stops up would be about right for most evaluative meters. It will depend on the scene though. If you meter on something flat white, opening two stops will render it white.  If you're shooting raw files at a lower iso then the sensor should hold detail there.


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## Braders (Dec 25, 2007)

Another qu...

If i have the exposure and WB correct with nice contrasting snow etc....what %'s should i have RGB values at when i use the WB target tool?


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## Mark Sirota (Jan 2, 2008)

Brad, I think nobody has answered this because the question doesn't make much sense.

When you use the WB target tool, you're supposed to be looking at the image, not at the percentages.  You click on something that _should be_ white -- doesn't matter what the percentages are.

Or am I just misunderstanding the question?


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## Sean McCormack (Jan 6, 2008)

However, after you click on the thing that's supposed to be white, then the percentages should be similar.


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## Braders (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks Sean.

I think what i was trying to ask is what you said, yes i understand that.

But, obviously the % should not be at 1''%. What i was trying to get was around what % is white without it being grey yet also not blown out?


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## Mick Seymour (Jan 7, 2008)

Braders said:


> What i was trying to get was around what % is white without it being grey yet also not blown out?



White will be up in the 9'% range somewhere for R, G and B. Less than that and you are working with light grey.

Don't forget that as far as your eyes are concerned you will see white but there are different whites which will give different RGB readings. As an example, a photograph of white printer paper or white paint may show a higher blue % in Lightroom than the red and green. That is because manufacturers add a slight blue tint to make it look whiter than white.


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## Mark Sirota (Jan 7, 2008)

Ah, now I understand.  Yeah, clicking on a brighter white thing will result in slightly more accuracy, so long as that thing isn't blown out in any channel.  I think the low to mid 9''s are a great target to shoot for, but I don't think there's a straightforward formula for this.  If you're striving for maximum accuracy with this, I'd suggest working zoomed in with the clipping indicators on.  If after you click your spot turns red, that spot was too bright, choose another.

The other thing to be careful of with the WB dropper is chroma noise, which can fake it out.  I experimented with a shot of a white card properly exposed at ISO 16'' and found that clicking on different spots still results in slightly different temp and tint.  I've made a feature request for a larger weighted average selection rather than a single pixel, but in any case I'm not sure you can rely on the WB dropper if you're looking for absolute maximum accuracy.

And if you're not worried about maximum accuracy, just good enough, then don't fret -- just click on something that should be white, and ensure that it isn't blown out before or after you click.


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## Bruce J (Jan 8, 2008)

Mark,

I'm curious as to what "absolute maximum accuracy" would consist of?  As I understand the WB dropper, all it does is correct the color balance so that the location you've clicked on is neutral gray.  Doesn't matter whether you click on a spot that's light gray or dark gray, it just makes it neutral (ie. R=G=B).  If you want any kind of accuracy (whatever that is), I would think you would have to have something in the scene that is known to be neutral gray.  I use a WhiBal for that purpose as most things that appear to be gray or white are in fact not really neutral.  But then, I often modify the white balance with the sliders after I use the WB dropper for 'artistic reasons'.

To get back to the OP, for snow scenes, I find it difficult to find a portion of the snow that gives me a realistic balance.  In particular, be wary of using the dropper on sunlit snow that's already nearly white; as mentioned previously, if one of the channels is blown out, the WB dropper won't work correctly.  Also, be careful of using the dropper on shadowed snow.  Snow shadows are generally quite blue under a blue sky; making them neutral gray will make the scene too warm.  My opinions only, of course.  In the end do what makes the image look the way you want it to look and don't worry about accuracy.  Cheers,


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## Mark Sirota (Jan 8, 2008)

By "absolute maximum accuracy", I'm taking about reproducing colors with absolute fidelity.  Because there are things that can confuse or trick the WB dropper, it may not be the best way to go for perfect color fidelity.

Most of us don't need perfection, though.  I use the WB dropper all the time!


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## Bruce J (Jan 9, 2008)

Mark Sirota;575' said:
			
		

> Most of us don't need perfection, though.  I use the WB dropper all the time!



I'm with you on that!  I use it on lots of things that aren't truly neutral and find that it's often a good start to get me close to what I want, particularly in mixed lighting.  Then, I'm likely to tweak from there.  Cheers,


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## hoddo (Jan 15, 2008)

*Re the snow question...*

if you have a clear blue sky and your photography will be directly illuminated from this sky and not inside a shaded area then do this...decide on the aperture your want to use then point your camera directly at the sky and take a meter reading.  Make sure you lock down this meter reading so suggest manual mode.  Dial in these shutter/aperture settings and fire away - when you recompose your meter will go nuts telling you that it knows a better meter reading - ignore it.

If you do this you'll get white snow and a perfectly exposed shot - promise.  If you're in the shade then meter as normal and bump the exposure up from anything from 1/2 to 1 1/2 stops.

If the sky is cloudy then take a meter reading from the palm of your hand and use that reading as the basis for your exposures.

And finally...

enjoy your time in the snow.


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