# Lightroom STILL doesn't make images unique



## dkperez (Oct 10, 2020)

I've asked this over in the Lightroom Forum in the past, and I"ve never gotten a useful answer....

I take a set of images and run them through Helicon Focus.  I render them with a specific setting and get back a .dng file with a unique name.  I render a second time with a DIFFERENT set of parameters and get bad a DIFFERENT .dng file with a unique name.  They're not the same, they don't look the same.

In Lightroom, in Library or in Develop, they show up THE SAME.  At 1:1 they show up the same.  Does anyone here have a way to make Lightroom display them as the actually are?  It doesn't happen when I save as jpegs, and it doesn't happen when I save as tiffs, but with dng files I keep having to open them in Adobe Bridge to see the differences...


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## Rob_Cullen (Oct 10, 2020)

My first thought is that the DNG files have the 'different' edits in the metadata, but LrC is only showing you the 'original' raw data.
Have you tried 'reading' the metadata from the files in LrC?
Select DNG files:  MENU: _Metadata > Read Metadata from Files_.

Adobe Bridge would be automatically applying the different edits when it displays files as it works 'in real time' whereas LrC works from the Catalog info (that needs updating!).

And, as usual, you would need to then Export a Derivative TIF or JPG out of LrC to 'Bake in' the edits from the metadata.


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## dkperez (Oct 10, 2020)

I've got two files.  Neither is the "original".  They're different files with different names and different contents.  They just happen to be .dng files.  I can "read" the metadata, but there's no mismatch so it doesn't make any difference.  I can create 1:1 previews and they STILL don't get shown as different in Lightroom.  There are no edits for Bridge to apply.  They haven't been touched.

Export anything doesn't make sense.  I'm in Lightroom.  I need Lightroom to recognize the .dng files are different and display them correctly.

It's actually WORSE than not recognizing the differences in two files rendered from the same image set...  I can take 19 images and render them, then take a 7 image subset that only has the first 1/3 of the image sharp and render it - so now they're not SLIGHTLY different, they're HUGELY different, and when I get back into Lightroom, it displays them as the same.   Faststone Viewer knows they're different.  Photoshop when I send them from Lightroom knows they're different.  Even Affinity Photo knows they're different.  The only thing that DOESN'T know they're different, no matter what I've done (1:1 previews, read metadata, do the hokey-pokey) is Lightroom.


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## GregJ (Oct 10, 2020)

I focus stack with the GFX 100 a lot - anywhere from 15 to 250 images and export to Helicon as DNG.  Then I render (usually with Method C) and head back to LR as a DNG and do my work and then export as a full size JPEG at 90% quality, which is about 50 MB, and I post it on Flickr I'm in the mood.  
I can't follow what you are talking about.  I do this a lot and can maybe help you, but I am lost as to the problem.  

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums


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## dkperez (Oct 10, 2020)

Thanks for the reply Greg...  Take one of your stacks - I don't know what a GFX 100 is, but presuming you're doing focus stacks by changing focus.
Take one of your stacks - maybe a small one with 20 or 30 images.  Presumably they're shot in RAW, imported into Lightroom, then sent in RAW to Helicon Focus.
Once there, render the stack in Method B, using the default radius (8) and smoothing (4).  Save the output back to Lightroom as a .dng file.  STAY in Helicon and change the method to C, set smoothing to 2 and render again.  As you're likely aware, it's a LOT faster to do this than to export from Lightroom every time.  Again, save the Method C render as a .dng.  
STILL STAYING in Helicon Focus, select all the images but the first 8, and UNCHECK them.  Switch back to Method B, render again.  Save as a .dng.
Exit from Helicon Focus back to Lightroom and you'll now import 3 images, 1 with ALL the images rendered in Method B, one with ALL the images rendered in Method C, which will look VERY different than Method B, and one with only part of the stack (8 images worth) that is sharp, rendered in Method B, which will look extremely different than either of the others.
In Library, open the 3 images in Loupe view.  Do they look as different as they actually are, or do all three look the same?   
On all THREE of the Windows 10 systems I have done this on, across every version of Lightroom I've ever tried it on, they look exactly the same.  With .dng files.  In Lightroom.  Tiffs look "normal (different)", JPEGS look "normal (different)", .dngs all look the same.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Oct 10, 2020)

If you look at them in some other program -- bridge even -- are they different?   I.e. is this a lightroom display issue, or are the files actually not different inside the DNG's?


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## dkperez (Oct 10, 2020)

Yes, as I said in one of the earlier posts, " Faststone Viewer knows they're different.  Photoshop when I send them from Lightroom knows they're different.  Even Affinity Photo knows they're different.  The only thing that DOESN'T know they're different, no matter what I've done (1:1 previews, read metadata, do the hokey-pokey) is Lightroom. "

I've even gone so far as to go into the metadata and edit the "capture time" to see if having a different TIME would matter.  It didn't.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Oct 10, 2020)

dkperez said:


> Yes, as I said in one of the earlier posts,



Sorry, I need a big sign on my computer "don't answer posts after midnight", I missed that.  No idea.

I've seen lightroom get its pointers confused internally, where two master files pointed to the same physical file. It was years ago and I can't recall exactly what did it, but it was related to file movement (e.g. drag and drop) that resulted in naming conflicts.  That does not sound like your issue though.   But it might be worth trying an experiment: If there's some crossover, LR will likely show its confusion in file movement.  Once all three are imported and appear the same (but with different names), drag and drop (inside of LR) each file to a different folder, one by one, while watching the file in Explorer to see that it moves.  Do all three move properly, separately?  This would indicate if LR has attached the right physical file to the right catalog pointer.

If that yields no useful result, delete the files and start over but this time when you import, put the files in different folders before importing, and import one by one.   If this works, it would seem to indicate the failure is on the import not on the file contents. 

Just trying at random to draw a circle around the issue to narrow it down.


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## clee01l (Oct 10, 2020)

dkperez said:


> Presumably they're shot in RAW, imported into Lightroom, then sent in RAW to Helicon Focus.


This may be your problem.    Helicon Focus will read RAW file formats.  Lightroom will read RAW file formats.   I am not sure what Lightroom is exporting to Helicon Focus though .  A DNG is not necessarily a RAW format.  Only if you Export as original will Lightroom give your an unprocessed RAW HeliconFocus must demosiac and render  RGB pixels before it can process the in focus pixels.    RAW files contain RAW data from Photosites not RGB Pixels.  Helicon Focus works by detecting which pixels are in focus and merging the in focus Pixels to produce a new RGB image.   This RGB image is what is written into the DNG sent back to Lightroom.

If the files that you send to Helicon Focus are original RAW formats, Lightroom will export a CR2, NEF or other proprietary RAW file format along with an XMP sidecar file. Is this what happens and the file received by Helicon Focus is a NEF, CR2 or what ever proprietary RAW format produced by your camera? If Lightroom is sending a DNG to Helicon Focus, it is most likely a RGB file and not a RAW file at all.

Once received by Helicon focus, Helicon Focus must work with RGB pixels to process the data, Doing so it needs to set the colorspace for the RGB pixels While it says the colorspace is native to your RAW data this can't be true and RAW data has no colorspace and a colorspace needs to be assigned that will include all of the pixels in the image. Usually this would be ProPhotoRGB or Display P3. Note that a colorspace usually has "RGB" in the name. This is because Color Spaces are only applied to RGB pixels (not RAW data).
Now, why might the Helicon Focus files that are returned to Lightroom different?    This might be because HF picks a differed WB during the process or adjusts the images accordingly HF has to render RAW files with some tone adjustments WB, NR, and sharpening.  It could be that it picks a different images in the list of images to be used for focus stacking.  IOW,  there could be many HF related reasons that it does not duplicate results each time.    If The Focus Stack image sent back is a DNG,  it could contain unique rendering adjustments that LR renders when it applies the embedded edit parameters to the RGB pixels in the DNG.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 10, 2020)

Questions like this can only be answered if you post a link to these images so people can see then with their own eyes and check them in their own software.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Oct 10, 2020)

dkperez said:


> Yes, as I said in one of the earlier posts, " Faststone Viewer knows they're different.  Photoshop when I send them from Lightroom knows they're different.



So when you sent them to photoshop, how did they go?  Did you do an edit-original (I'm not sure you can for a DNG)?   

So if you send them to photoshop, what happens if you change them slightly so it produces a new file, like a TIF or PSD, and takes it back into Lightroom -- I assume then they are different?   It's just the DNG as-imported from Helicon that doesn't show differences?


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## PhilBurton (Oct 10, 2020)

Or maybe it's time to contact Helicon Tech Support??


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## dkperez (Oct 10, 2020)

Lemme see if I can answer these in order.

I took the three .dng images and moved them to 3 different folders in Lightroom (moved them in Lightroom). Yes, they move individually, and when viewed in a different tool, they look different, each in it’s folder. In Lightroom, however, selecting all 3 folders and viewing them in the loupe, they look the same.

I reran the Helicon Focus process and saved each image to a different folder. Then selected both folders and opened the images in loupe – nope, still the same.

Clee01: When I export to Helicon Focus from Nikon .NEF files (using “Original”), the list of files in Helicon Focus is .NEF. And they load very quickly – much more quickly than if I told it to export .tif or .dng from Lightroom. I presume that means it’s actually SENDING .NEF files.

I don’t know if Helicon gets the xmp files or not, and I don’t think it makes any difference since we’re dealing with what’s coming OUT of Helicon.

What happens inside Helicon as far as colorspace and whatever, not the issue. Don’t know what it’s doing inside. What it sends BACK is a .dng. Lightroom thinks it’s a .dng. Photoshop thinks it’s a .dng. so far EVERYTHING I’ve viewed them in thinks it’s a .dng. And everything BUT Lightroom shows them correctly. I’m not buying that it’s a Helicon problem.

If y’all are willing to download about 400 MB of .dng files I’ll put them up on the web server. They’re small D850 images, but they’re not compressed, so each .dng is about 120MB.

When I edit the .dng images in Photoshop from Lightroom, they show up in Photoshop as .dng files. Absolutely normal, ordinary .dng files. Lightroom doesn’t appear to ever ask me if a .dng file should have Lightroom adjustments, but NONE of these have any adjustments other than what MAY get done during the import.

No, once they’re .tif or .psd or .jpg there’s no problem – BUT there was NO problem in the FIRST PLACE if they were exported from Helicon as .tif or .jpg. It’s JUST the .dng files.


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## dkperez (Oct 10, 2020)

Just out of curiosity, WHY would I contact Helicon support about a Lightroom display problem?  Is there ANY way you think Helicon is going to say "Oh, yeah, our .dng outputs screw up in Lightroom and don't display correctly!"


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## clee01l (Oct 10, 2020)

dkperez said:


> Clee01: When I export to Helicon Focus from Nikon .NEF files (using “Original”), the list of files in Helicon Focus is .NEF. And they load very quickly – much more quickly than if I told it to export .tif or .dng from Lightroom. I presume that means it’s actually SENDING .NEF files.
> 
> I don’t know if Helicon gets the xmp files or not, and I don’t think it makes any difference since we’re dealing with what’s coming OUT of Helicon.
> 
> What happens inside Helicon as far as colorspace and whatever, not the issue. Don’t know what it’s doing inside. What it sends BACK is a .dng. Lightroom thinks it’s a .dng. Photoshop thinks it’s a .dng. so far EVERYTHING I’ve viewed them in thinks it’s a .dng. And everything BUT Lightroom shows them correctly. I’m not buying that it’s a Helicon problem.


. OK, HF is receiving RAW NEFs. It then must demosaic the data block and create an RGB file. To do this, it needs to apply some Colorspace and some tone, WB, NR to produce a viewable image. With the RGB it “finds” the in Focus pixels and merges the in Focus parts of the images into a single image. It probably does not read the XMP that Lightroom sends since it is doing its own automatic rendering of the RGB. The file sent to Lightroom is a DNG. It is not RAW, it is RGB pixel data. Just like a TIFF. The differences between a TIFF format and a DNG format are only in the file structure. The data block should be the same RGB pixels no matter which file format. 

How do they “look different” in Lightroom?

As for contacting HF support “Helicon Focus uses Raw converter to open Raw files, there are several converter options to choose from. Adobe DNG Converter is one of the most powerful converters supporting the widest range of formats. So actually when you’re asking about supported Raw file formats you should refer to the list of formats supported by the Raw converter you are using.” What converter options are you using in HF? Are the converter options three same for the three DNG files that you send back to Lightroom?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 10, 2020)

I use Helicon Focus ocassionally. I let it create a DNG file, because that DNG is similar to Lightroom panorama and/or HDR DNG files, meaning that it behaves like a raw file. So far each Helicon Focus DNG looks the way it should look it Lightroom, so again: let us have the DNG files to see if we can reproduce your problem. Without them I am not even going to speculate what could be the cause.


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## dkperez (Oct 11, 2020)

Are you running multiple renders using different Methods and subsets of the image set?


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## dkperez (Oct 11, 2020)

I've uploaded the 3 .dng files:
http://dperezphoto.com/19B,R4,S4.dnghttp://dperezphoto.com/19C,S2.dnghttp://dperezphoto.com/8B,R4,S2.dng


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## Rob_Cullen (Oct 11, 2020)

Being curious I downloaded your three files and imported to Lr-Classic.
They DO look different to me!


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## clee01l (Oct 11, 2020)

I-See-Light said:


> Being curious I downloaded your three files and imported to Lr-Classic.
> They DO look different to me!
> View attachment 15312


I too see great differences in the in focus areas of each to the 3 images posted above.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 11, 2020)

OK, as the images look different in Lightroom to everybody but you, I suggest this is a problem with your previews. Try the following: Open your catalog folder and remove 'catalogname previews.lrdata'. Then start Lightroom. Lightroom will rebuild the previews which should solve the problem.


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## dkperez (Oct 11, 2020)

I looked at the previous reply and thought maybe displaying them in comparison view made them reload and become different, so I tried that.  Opened them in loupe, switched to comparison, back to loupe.  Nope.  No different.  
So I thought maybe it's the desktop computer.  Put them on a flash drive and copied them to the laptop.  Nope still the same.

All this, of course, is on a Windows 10 Pro, 64-bit system.  Using the current version of Lightroom Classic.  In the Library, in loupe view seeing one image at a time, moving through the three of them...


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## clee01l (Oct 11, 2020)

Johan Elzenga said:


> OK, as the images look different in Lightroom to everybody but you, I suggest this is a problem with your previews. Try the following: Open your catalog folder and remove 'catalogname previews.lrdata'. Then start Lightroom. Lightroom will rebuild the previews which should solve the problem.


Actually, I don't think you do not need to be that drastic.  Select the images in Lightroom Classic. 
From the menu {Library}{Previews} {Discard 1:1 Previews} and then {Library}{Previews} {Build 1:1 Previews}


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 11, 2020)

dkperez said:


> I looked at the previous reply and thought maybe displaying them in comparison view made them reload and become different, so I tried that.  Opened them in loupe, switched to comparison, back to loupe.  Nope.  No different.
> So I thought maybe it's the desktop computer.  Put them on a flash drive and copied them to the laptop.  Nope still the same.
> 
> All this, of course, is on a Windows 10 Pro, 64-bit system.  Using the current version of Lightroom Classic.  In the Library, in loupe view seeing one image at a time, moving through the three of them...


Lightroom does not show you the images, it shows you previews that it generated from these images. That is why I suggest you force a rebuild of these previews to see if that solves the problem.


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## dkperez (Oct 11, 2020)

I thought for sure the nuclear option of deleting 36GB of previews would make these things unique...   It certainly wouldn't be a fix, and definitely not a reasonable thing to do, but in this case it was worth a try.
Nope.  Restarted Lightroom, opened the three images in loupe view, still the same.  Created 1:1 previews to see if that would matter.  Nope, still the same.

I also opened them in Adobe Bridge.  On the first view they were different.  After that, viewing them a second time, all the same.

Opened Faststone viewer to make sure they WERE different.  Yup, different in there.
I even opened Luminar and opened the three images...  Different.

I even ran Helicon Focus, rendered the images saved, exited back to Lightroom.  Then took 8 of the 19 images exported back to Helicon and rendered those.  Completely different executions.
Back to Lightroom, I now have 3 different images from 2 days ago, and 2 images created in separate executions of Helicon Focus this morning with unique names.  5 .dng files, days apart, at least 4 that are perceptibly different, all with unique names.  ALL with "previews" created this morning after deleting the previews.
In Lightroom, they're all identical.

I have no idea what's different between the two computers I've tried this on here and what y'all are doing, but Lightroom here doesn't show the difference between the images.  I figure it's going to be something stupid as soon as I know what it is.  Preference?  Something else?


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## dkperez (Oct 10, 2020)

I've asked this over in the Lightroom Forum in the past, and I"ve never gotten a useful answer....

I take a set of images and run them through Helicon Focus.  I render them with a specific setting and get back a .dng file with a unique name.  I render a second time with a DIFFERENT set of parameters and get bad a DIFFERENT .dng file with a unique name.  They're not the same, they don't look the same.

In Lightroom, in Library or in Develop, they show up THE SAME.  At 1:1 they show up the same.  Does anyone here have a way to make Lightroom display them as the actually are?  It doesn't happen when I save as jpegs, and it doesn't happen when I save as tiffs, but with dng files I keep having to open them in Adobe Bridge to see the differences...


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 11, 2020)

clee01l said:


> Actually, I don't think you do not need to be that drastic.  Select the images in Lightroom Classic.
> From the menu {Library}{Previews} {Discard 1:1 Previews} and then {Library}{Previews} {Build 1:1 Previews}


That may work, and then again it may not. The preview cache could be corrupted.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 11, 2020)

dkperez said:


> I thought for sure the nuclear option of deleting 36GB of previews would make these things unique...   It certainly wouldn't be a fix, and definitely not a reasonable thing to do, but in this case it was worth a try.
> Nope.  Restarted Lightroom, opened the three images in loupe view, still the same.  Created 1:1 previews to see if that would matter.  Nope, still the same.
> 
> I also opened them in Adobe Bridge.  On the first view they were different.  After that, viewing them a second time, all the same.
> ...


Could be the catalog itself somehow. Create a brand new catalog and import the three images. See if they are different in this catalog.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 11, 2020)

dkperez said:


> I also opened them in Adobe Bridge. On the first view they were different. After that, viewing them a second time, all the same.


So now the same problem can be seen in Bridge? In that case it could be the Camera Raw cache. You can purge that from the Lightroom preferences.


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## dkperez (Oct 11, 2020)

Is there any way a preference can be causing it…
On General I have

Ignore camera-generated folder names NOT checked
Treat JPEG files as separate checked
Replace embedded previews with standard checked
I presume there’s nothing in presets or external editing that can cause this?

File handling

File extension dng
JPEG preview is medium
Embed Fast Load Data checked
Nothing I can see in Interface

Performance

Have had graphics process off, auto and custom, doesn’t make any difference.
Big cache file on it’s own partition.
Generate previews in parallel checked.
In the catalog settings

File Handling

Standard Preview Size 1680 px
Preview quality medium
Metadata

Include develop settings in metada… checked
Nothing else

---------------------------

I was wrong about Bridge.  I just went over and tried again, and realized I was looking at different versions of the same rendering.  when I look at all 5 .dngs that are sitting there, the ones that SHOULD be different are.  I purged cache in Lightroom and I had Bridge purge local cache.  BTW:  The two caches are on completely different drives...
Anyway, Bridge IS still showing them different.

I think I'm starting to get punchy looking at this stupid thing...


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## clee01l (Oct 11, 2020)

Johan Elzenga said:


> So now the same problem can be seen in Bridge? In that case it could be the Camera Raw cache. You can purge that from the Lightroom preferences.


DNGs creates as focus stacked composites will not be RAW images and will not have been processed through ACR   Helicon Focus has to be sending back RGB images.
The fact that several of us are seeing differences in the images and the OP on one computer is not suggests that Windows 10 may be caching images somehow (I know this can happen for images in a web browser)

Look for a cache folder similar to


> C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\INetCache


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## dkperez (Oct 11, 2020)

Seems unlikely MY Windows 10 would be the only one doing that.  Or are all of you looking at the on Macs?  In any case, it happens on at least 2 systems.

I'm about to throw this one, which unfortunately is a major PITA, on the same garbage pile with all the other stuff over the years.


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## Hal P Anderson (Oct 11, 2020)

I'm on Windows 10, LRC 9.4, and they all look different. 

When you select each image in Library, do all of their file sizes differ, or are they the same?


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## dkperez (Oct 11, 2020)

All the files are different sizes.  Different names, different sizes, even different dates.


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## dkperez (Oct 11, 2020)

I have no idea what this means or if it'll help or not...
Ran the SAME 19 image stack and rendered it with Method B.  Stayed in Helicon and rendered it with Method C.  THEN I unchecked the FIRST 4 images and the last 6 images so it would only render images from the middle of the stack.  Rendered those and saved.

The first 2 are still the same BUT, the rendered images from the middle of the stack are different.  This does not happen when I render a subset from the front of the stack...


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## Linwood Ferguson (Oct 12, 2020)

You probably don't need another "me too" but I downloaded, added to LR, and all three look different for me also. 

One other thing to try if you are still in an experimenting mode -- when you import into LR set the preview size to "embedded".  This will cause LR to use the preview contained inside and not build it again.  When you import make sure you are not setting any develop preset that will force a preview build; you should get the little embedded icon on the top right. 

I'm curious if it will get the right one before it builds its own preview (to be more precise, what LR does is read the preview from the file and substitute it for its own preview, in the preview cache; but this will tell if the issue is in the preview creation (applying LR develop) or in the preview access itself.


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## GregJ (Oct 12, 2020)

dkperez said:


> Thanks for the reply Greg...  Take one of your stacks - I don't know what a GFX 100 is, but presuming you're doing focus stacks by changing focus.
> Take one of your stacks - maybe a small one with 20 or 30 images.  Presumably they're shot in RAW, imported into Lightroom, then sent in RAW to Helicon Focus.
> Once there, render the stack in Method B, using the default radius (8) and smoothing (4).  Save the output back to Lightroom as a .dng file.  STAY in Helicon and change the method to C, set smoothing to 2 and render again.  As you're likely aware, it's a LOT faster to do this than to export from Lightroom every time.  Again, save the Method C render as a .dng.
> STILL STAYING in Helicon Focus, select all the images but the first 8, and UNCHECK them.  Switch back to Method B, render again.  Save as a .dng.
> ...


I will do that next time I shoot a stack.  Believe it not, I have not kept the stacks but only the resulting DNG that I'm happy with.  I always shoot raw, then export to Helicon Focus as DNG files.  But I did learn something from your post.  I didn't know you could render the stack various ways without starting over.  I always like to compare Method B and C.  I think you need to repeat this issue on the Helicon Board.  Something is not right because when I render one at a time with different methods the files are clearly different.  
Also, someone told me that you had to make sure that you have the latest version of DNG Converter downloaded from Adobe.  Apparently it does not update automatically with the cloud service along with LR, PS, Bridge, etc...  I wonder if that is really true?  I need to ask Cletus or Jim....  It seems Adobe would do that.


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## dkperez (Oct 12, 2020)

I don't import the output from Helicon Focus into Lightroom, it comes in automatically.  I don't know what settings it uses, though I can set Lightroom to Embedded and see if anything changes.

This has been brought up in other forums (I don't recall if I"m asked at Helicon 'cause it's rare to get a useful answer - EVERYTHING is always something else's fault), but the only "answer" I ever got was something to the effect that images coming back from Helicon get put in Lightroom SO FAST that LR doesn't have time to build previews and that's why...

As far as the dng converter...  Helicon doesn't care as long as it works.  With 7.6.4 Pro on, I got errors with raw images as input, complaining that the .dng couldn't be created.  My .dng converter was a version old, updated, and it was fine.  So, it's BEST if you keep it current...


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## clee01l (Oct 12, 2020)

dkperez said:


> Seems unlikely MY Windows 10 would be the only one doing that.  Or are all of you looking at the on Macs?  In any case, it happens on at least 2 systems.


. But it does seem unique to only your two machines.   At least Linwood is on Windows.  So, I think that rules out a Windows only issue.


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## dkperez (Oct 12, 2020)

I changed the Lightroom import to embedded and imported a couple images to it hopefully became the default.  Ran a stack, exported .dng to Lightroom.  Exactly the same.

I even went into the Raw development settings - there aren't any.  BUT, I had installed the Nikon WIC codecs a while back, so I uninstalled those and rebooted.  Ran a stack, sent .dng back to Lightroom. No difference.  

It appears I have the only two Windows 10 systems in the universe that are doing this.  One is Windows 10 I installed on the desktop, the other is still the completely standard Windows 10 that came on it from Dell on the laptop.  At the moment I have 5 .dng files of the stack, each with a unique name, generated in three separate sessions of Helicon focus, 1 of 19 images, 2 of the first 8, and 1 of the first 9.  And in Lightroom Library, they ALL LOOK IDENTICAL.


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## Hal P Anderson (Oct 12, 2020)

Which picture is the one that they all look like?

I could have missed it in the thread: did you try creating a brand new catalogue and importing just those weird DNGs?


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## dkperez (Oct 12, 2020)

It APPEARS they all look like whichever image was the active one when I open it in Loupe view.  I've done it with one of the 19 image stacks active and they look like that.  I've done the same thing with one of the 8 image subsets active and they all look like THAT one.

In Develop, as I move through the (however many) outputs from Helicon, the images look like what they are for a split second, they change to the originally active one.  So if I have a 19 image output and an 8 image subset output, and start with the 19 image output active, when I move to the 8 image one, it shows the 8 image one for a VERY short time, less than a second, then switches to the one that was originally active...

I'm going to see if there's a way to have something record my Lightroom loupe window whhile I display the images.  The image name changes but the images don't.

And yes, I've created a test catalog and only used those image in it, and they look the same.


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## John Little (Oct 12, 2020)

Have you tried resetting the preferences? The experts here often suggest that when LR starts acting strangely.

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/comm...the-lightroom-preferences-file-updated.25197/


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## dkperez (Oct 13, 2020)

I tried that early on.   One thing that has me curious is that if I create a stack from image 1 - 19 I get an output.  If I create a stack with image 1 - 8 I get a completely different output but they look the same in Lightroom.  But if I create a stack with image 2 - 19 Lightroom sees it as different.  So, what piece of information, even though the filenames are different,  is Lightroom looking at that tells it to show the same preview?

Buried way down in the raw-in-dng-out part of Helicon I DID come across a piece of information on an image.  It said "iso 22028-2 ROMM RGB profile".   Is this how the outgoing .dng file is encoded by Helicon Focus?  Either way, while interesting, I presume EVERYBODY'S Windows 10 system, running Helicon Focus, is going to use this same encoding.  So WHY do the images look the same on these two computers and not others?  WHAT's different?


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## John Little (Oct 13, 2020)

Have you tried Zerene Stacker? That might help narrow down the range of possibilities (if Zerene gives the expected behavior instead of what you're seeing, it suggests the problem is in Helicon, or in the way Helicon sends its output to LR).


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## dkperez (Oct 13, 2020)

Unfortunately, I tried Zerene some months ago and it hasn't changed since, so my trial expired.  I MAY be able to try it on the laptop tomorrow.


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## clee01l (Oct 13, 2020)

John Little said:


> Have you tried Zerene Stacker? That might help narrow down the range of possibilities (if Zerene gives the expected behavior instead of what you're seeing, it suggests the problem is in Helicon, or in the way Helicon sends its output to LR).



Everyone looking at copies of output images on their computer see. Differences in the image. So, what ever is happening is happening with the OPs Windows machine and Lightroom. Helicon is producing different images and everyone else can see the differences.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dkperez (Oct 13, 2020)

Now I just need SOMEONE with a lot more knowledge than I have to tell me WHAT's different.  Helicon support has been silent so far.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Oct 13, 2020)

One other possiubil


clee01l said:


> Everyone looking at copies of output images on their computer see. Differences in the image. So, what ever is happening is happening with the OPs Windows machine and Lightroom. Helicon is producing different images and everyone else can see the differences.


Except all of us who tried it with the provided files are doing an import, whereas Helicon is doing something to return a file(s) back to LR as a plugin.  The mechanics are apparently different.

@dkperez, can you save the files from Helicon somewhere else, and NOT return them at all to LR.  Cancel out or something similar.  Then import the files instead with the regular import dialog, as we are doing.

I'd suggest trying existing files but who knows if they are remembered in some way, that's why I am suggesting doing it with a new trio.

Which actually begs the question --is Helicon actually brining all three back without you doing an import?   As one operation?   Or are you doing three separate plugin invocations?  You probably said but I'm getting confused now also what's been tried.

Have you considered stronger liquor than you are using now?


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## dkperez (Oct 14, 2020)

You and me both, Ferguson!

I ran a small stack through 2 rendering methods and saved them to a completely separate hard drive.  When I exited Helicon Focus they still got imported into Lightroom and still displayed the same.
SO, I did the same thing again, saved them to a DIFFERENT hard drive, then MOVED them to yet ANOTHER drive before I exited from Helicon.  Lightroom didn't find them so I imported them.  Exactly the same.

I THOUGHT MAYBE Lightroom was using the embedded jpegs to view in the Loupe (I know that wouldn't answer the question in Develop or when viewed 1:1, but at this point we're WAY past any "rational" answer and deeply into the bizarre).  And that if you run multiple renderings that Helicon Focus was using the SAME jpeg (the first image of the stack) for all of them - which might follow from the fact that when I used a middle subset of the set I DID see a difference (the first image of the subset stack was different than the first image of the full stack).  SO, I sent the stack to Helicon and ran method B.  EXITED from Helicon and sent the stack again from Lightroom and rendered with Method C.  In loupe , EXACTLY the same.

One MORE thought...  BOTH my systems, the desktop AND the laptop are Windows 10 Pro.  I just had a friend look at the 3 images from the website and run a stack of his own.  Both my three and HIS output from one of his stacks are identical when viewed in loupe.  To confirm his actually ARE different, he sent them to Photoshop where they ARE different.  SO, ANY chance it's Windows 10 Pro - I don't know what O/S you folks that see them as NOT the same are using...

BTW:  When I exited Helicon Focus back to Lightroom after MOVING the images I got the following error in Lightroom:
An internal error has occurred:
AgImportSession.addOnePhotoToLibrary: failed to import photo

which I would expect something like, since Lightroom is being told to import images that aren't there.

So if it's NOT a Lightroom preference (I listed mine above), or a Catalog preference (also above), unless it some Windows 10 Pro thing and y'all are using something else, I'm out of ideas.

I've started TWO topics at Helicon Support, one for the the non-distinct images.  The OTHER is because Helicon Focus has a "Save All" to save all the images at one time instead of sending each one back.  I THOUGHT that might give different results.  Unfortunately, when I tried that one, it failed with some gibberish error, so I CAN'T find out if that would give different results.  And, of course, it's only been a day, so there's been no response from Helicon.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Oct 14, 2020)

FWIW I am on Windows 10 Pro also.  Not to mention I do not see how that would affect what LR sees in loupe. 

I'm sorry.  I am at a loss.

So let me think outloud just a moment... if LR shows the same wrong rendering in both Develop and Loupe (which use different preview mechanisms), and if we give it credit it is rendering the two separately, it must be pointing somehow to the wrong DNG, or the DNG's are not actually different.

But the DNG's saved to disk are different, because other programs see them as different, only LR is seeing (or at least rendering them) as the same. Right? 

Wait... are you using Smart Previews?   If so, turn them off and try?   But assuming not... 

So if it's getting its wires crossed and pointing to the wrong file, can we do something to prove that?  I think you have already done things like import separately and move around first to no available, right?  Seeming to indicate it relates to file name or contents, that it is still connecting them together somehow.

 When you exit from Helicon and LR does the import, is there a time when you can stop?  I.e. does Helicon save the files and then you exit, so you could pause there?   And get to the files before LR does? 

What happens if you substitute your own DNG for one or two of the files, some completely different subject but exactly in the same place and same file name, also a DNG.  A little slight of hand before LR gets it.  What happens then? 

Or... if you can do that... what happens if before LR imports but after Helicon saves it, you open them in Photoshop and edit it somehow, write a big text 1, 2, 3 on each or similar, and resave in place over that DNG.  This will rewrite the DNG, and maybe restructure it.  If LR then works correctly, it seems to point to an issue in how Helicon wrote it. 

Something is happening in LR that is confusing the files, somewhere.  The only way I can see to find the problem is to isolate what you can do to stop it, even if it is not practical normally.  Find a way to get them all imported correctly, then try changing one thing at a time to recreate the problem.  Maybe even create an empty catalog and try it there. 

Or, have you considered astrophotography instead of Macrophotography.


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## dkperez (Oct 10, 2020)

I've asked this over in the Lightroom Forum in the past, and I"ve never gotten a useful answer....

I take a set of images and run them through Helicon Focus.  I render them with a specific setting and get back a .dng file with a unique name.  I render a second time with a DIFFERENT set of parameters and get bad a DIFFERENT .dng file with a unique name.  They're not the same, they don't look the same.

In Lightroom, in Library or in Develop, they show up THE SAME.  At 1:1 they show up the same.  Does anyone here have a way to make Lightroom display them as the actually are?  It doesn't happen when I save as jpegs, and it doesn't happen when I save as tiffs, but with dng files I keep having to open them in Adobe Bridge to see the differences...


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## clee01l (Oct 14, 2020)

Ferguson said:


> FWIW I am on Windows 10 Pro also. Not to mention I do not see how that would affect what LR sees in loupe.
> 
> I'm sorry. I am at a loss.


I have suggested earlier that somewhere in Windows there is an image caching offering.  I have no proof for this except that I know that this occurs in the browsers to speed loading of the same file over and over.


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## dkperez (Oct 14, 2020)

I"ve considered STAMP COLLECTING instead of macrophotography!

No smart previews.

Yes, I’ve exported from Helicon and move them so Lightroom couldn’t import them, then imported them. Still the same.

I don’t know of any way to stop between Helicon and Lightroom other than to save the Helicon images and move them so Lightroom can’t import them.

Opening the images in Photoshop before I let Lightroom import them shows them as different in Photoshop. I haven’t seen a way to save a .dng file from Photoshop?

I’ve already done the “blow away the whole catalog and create a new one” thing… Didn’t matter.

But, at this point I have two people who use Helicon Focus, and three computers that are all displaying very different images as identical.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Oct 14, 2020)

clee01l said:


> I have suggested earlier that somewhere in Windows there is an image caching offering.  I have no proof for this except that I know that this occurs in the browsers to speed loading of the same file over and over.



But one that LR would be using in Develop?   Reusing despite all the hoops that have been jumped through? 



dkperez said:


> Opening the images in Photoshop before I let Lightroom import them shows them as different in Photoshop. I haven’t seen a way to save a .dng file from Photoshop?


Sorry about that, I just thought it could and did not try, just tried and you are of course correct.

I actually had Helicon on my system, I thought it had expired, but it says 30 days left.   I rendered three ways, so I had three at the bottom, and did a Save All (is that how you are doing it?).  It offered to save as TIFF.  I switched to DNG and it says "Some of the results3) cannot be saved into DNG format".   I changed to TIFF and specified a folder (different) and got an "Unable to Export" that said "The follow files were not imported because they could not be read or the destination folder is not writeable". 

The three TIFFs were in the folder I specified, I ADDed them with an import session, and they are three different photos. 

How are you outputting DNG's?


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## Linwood Ferguson (Oct 14, 2020)

Just by accident I was reading a book at breakfast after your first note today and the quotation in it applies: 

"When you have exhausted all possibilities, remember this: You haven't"  - Thomas Edison


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## John Little (Oct 14, 2020)

I can't follow all the twists and turns of this, but a good general philosophy for problem solving is to divide the universe of possibilities into two roughly equal-sized chunks and rule one chunk out.  Progressive iterations narrow down the problem.

Is it correct that the problem lies in how Helicon Focus communicates its output to LR? If that's not correct, can you rule it out? I don't use Helicon, so pardon me if the following is naive.

1. Have you tried re-installing Helicon Focus?
2. Does Helicon have options for outputting its files? If so, have you fiddled with them?
3. Is it possible that Helicon is somehow attaching an image, such as a preview, to its output file?
4. If your real goal is to produce focus-stacked images, is there a reason not to give Zerene Stacker a try? Some problems aren't worth solving, and you may be getting into this territory with Helicon.


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## John Little (Oct 14, 2020)

5. As I understand it, several Helicon output files that are known to be different (e.g. by viewing in Photoshop) look the same in LR. What happens if you go into Develop and make some kind of minor change, such as a small tweak to texture or vibrance or clarity?  I gather from previous threads on this forum that you may be presented with a preview when first opening a file, but even a slight change will cause LR to render the image anew.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 15, 2020)

John Little said:


> 1. Have you tried re-installing Helicon Focus?
> 2. Does Helicon have options for outputting its files? If so, have you fiddled with them?
> 3. Is it possible that Helicon is somehow attaching an image, such as a preview, to its output file?


As others have checked the files and do see the differences, I do not see how any of these three suggestions could solve the problem.


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## LRList001 (Oct 15, 2020)

1 Some time back I had a problem very like yours.  Somehow LR was looking at the same image, I was convinced I was looking at what should have been different versions, but they all looked the same.  From my somewhat unreliable memory, it was my fault, I got LR/me confused (rename the files to be very different)  2 LR's caching is less than perfect and sometimes (rarely) it doesn't update as quickly as it should do (minutes of displaying the wrong thing, LR needs 'poking' eg change the zoom ratio).  What have you got for your graphics card acceleration?  Which ever it is, turn it the other way.  3 The third observation is that you mention that the LR display changes from a correct different view to the same view.  That is utterly typical of LR loading a jpeg thumbnail that then gets replaced with the LR rendered version.  If that is happening, it suggests that in some way LR is ignoring the processed file and is reverting to using the raw original.  The DNG format isn't so much a single data format, but is a container for different formats, including the possibility of both the original raw file and other versions of it (at the same time).  How big is the DNG compared to the original NEF file?  Given that others are seeing the differences and you are not, I suggest the first two points to look at, the third one is clutching at straws but deleting your preferences (just rename the prefs file and restart LR as an experiment) might be worth trying.


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## John Little (Oct 15, 2020)

I don't know if this will clarify or muddy the waters further. I was curious to see whether the photos look the same on my computer (Win 10, running LrC 9.2.1) or different as most folks have reported. Sure enough, they looked somewhat different. But then I noticed that a develop preset I often use had been applied, even though I didn't apply it on import. Eventually I realized that in my Preferences file I told LR to apply this preset to RAW files. When I changed that to "Adobe Default" and imported the photos to a different folder, they all look the same to me.


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## John Little (Oct 15, 2020)

Edit to add: I checked whether the photos would look different if I applied my usual preset to them. One of them looked different; then I removed the preset and the changes persisted. When I looked at the other two, I got what I think is the OP's experience, namely that the proper photo would appear for a second or two, then the altered version of the previous one replaced it. But now when I go back to verify this behavior, it has gone away and the unadjusted version appears. Further testing seems to give variable behavior; sometimes the edited version sticks, other times  it reverts.

I also see that sometimes when I apply this preset to one of the images, the image looks very strange with haloes around the stems; usually it doesn't have that effect.

I don't understand it, but it makes me wonder whether there is something strange about these files, which is why I suggested re-installing Helicon before.


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## dkperez (Oct 18, 2020)

John, welcome to my world!!!!!!!!!!  Bizarre.

BTW:  I now have TWO other people who are running Windows 10 Pro on PCs with very different configurations, and both are seeing exactly what I do when the .dng files are displayed in loupe view.  One of the two ALSO does focus stacking with a completely different tool for creating the stacks and a different version of Helicon Focus for rendering.  He downloaded my 3 images and found them to identical in both loupe and Develop, then ran one of HIS stacks through HF, generated multiple different outputs, ran multiple HF sessions, and even did some other fiddling with output images.  Every time, his outputs looked IDENTICAL...  I'm not sure what's different between the 4 systems we're using and what y'all are doing, but he contacted Helicon Support and THEY have now reproduced the problem in Lightroom.  

Needless to say, their first response, and the one that continues to today, is - it's not their fault..  It's Lightroom.

Yesterday morning I opened two .dng files in Word.  You can read the “header” xmp stuff.  I took a 19 image stack and a 7 image subset and did a file compare on the xmp part.  They were done in TWO different sessions so I’d expect SOME differences.  The ONLY three fields that differed were the date at the top, the xmp:ModifyDate and the xmp:MetadataDate.  One is 19:44:09, the other is 19:45:30.

As near as I (and the compare) can tell, EVERYTHING ELSE in there is identical.  In Lightroom they look the same.

I took a .NEF file, in Lightroom, changed the exposure to about -3 and exported as a .dng.  Changed the exposure to about +4 and exported a .dng.  Different names.  Opened THOSE and compared:
The three dates are different (expected)…  BUT, there are OTHER differences:
xmpMMocumentID
xmpMM:InstanceID
crs:Exposure2012
stEvt:InstanceID
stEvt:when

And when imported into Lightroom, they look VERY different.
The Exposure is -3.xx  vs +4.xx so crs:Exposure2012 isn’t important.  I suspect stEvt:when isn’t either.
xmpMMocumentID, xmpMM:InstanceID and stEvt:InstanceID ALL CONTAIN THE SAME VALUE.

Back to Helicon…

I ran a NEW stack.  Ran 16 images in method B, then ran the first 4 images in method B.  Saved each as it was created.  Exited from Helicon then exported the first 8 images from Lightroom and ran them method B, and saved.  So, it’s a different time, a different number of images, and all the filenames are different.

In Lightroom loupe, ALL THREE images look identical.  Comparing the .dng files, the 16 image run and the 4 image subset are identical – as near as I can tell there are NO fields in the xmp text that differ.  There’s nothing I know of to tell Lightroom these are anything but two identical files with different names.  PRESUMING Lightroom is using something in this xmp data to decide what constitutes a "different" image.

Then I compared the 16 image and the SEPARATE 8 image subset renders.   This time the three dates differed, and the xmpMMocumentID, xmpMM:InstanceID, stEvt:InstanceID, stEvt:when differed as they did in the two .dng files I created from the .NEF.  Further down in the xmpMM:History section there are repeated occurrences of the stEvt:instanceID that repeat earlier values, but there are TWO different values of stEvt:instanceID in various places in the text…  All differ from the values in the stack of the 8 image subset.

So, there is data in the .dng that SEEMS to be unique when I run a SEPARATE session, yet in Lightroom, ALL 3 .dng files, 16 images, 4 image subset, 8 image subset, all look the same.

What DOES appear to be the same in all of the .dng images from these runs is the xmpMM:OriginalDocumentID, and in the “xmpMMDerivedFrom” section, the stRef:documentID, and the stRefriginalDocumentID, which match the xmpMM:OriginalDocumentID earlier in the text.

What is LIGHTROOM using to decide there are two different files?  If it’s InstanceID, that only appears to change if a different Helicon Focus session is run.  But, if it’s stRef:documentID or stRefriginalDocumentID, those are the same in all 3 .dng files.

I took a subset of images from the middle of the stack, and ran those.   All the above differ, PLUS the crs:RawFileName, aux:ImageNumber and the stRef:documentID, and stRefriginalDocumentID that were the same previously.  This render output, that started with an image in the middle of the stack rather than the first image in the stack, IS DIFFERENT in Lightroom...

From all this fiddling around, I have more data, but have no idea what is and isn’t meaningful.  The question “How does Lightroom determine two .dng files are the same (or different)?” hasn’t been answered.  As far as I can tell, Helicon doesn’t do it’s own .dng conversion.  It uses the Adobe .dng converter – when you install HF, it appears to install an Adobe .dng converter.  So, is it Lightroom, Adobe dng converter, or Helicon that’s not doing what’s needed to make Lightroom treat the .dng files as unique?


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## Linwood Ferguson (Oct 18, 2020)

If you have tried this my apologies but... 

It sounds like with experience you know what to expect.  Specifically, if you had images A, B and C can you predict in advance which image will be the one displayed in LR for all three?     Let's pretend it is going to be B.

If you can, can you interfere with the import on exit of Helicon so that B cannot be imported at all?  I.e. so that LR never even gets to see the image that otherwise would be used on all three? 

What do you see then?

Because if you then see B, it seems to imply that the DNG's all somehow, somewhere contain image B.

I'm starting to wonder if the DNG's are more complicated than we think, and Helicon is putting all the data for all the images in all three.

By the way... I still don't see how you are getting DNG's from Helicon.  I installed it and I get TIFF's back in Lightroom.  How are you telling it to return DNG's?


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## John Little (Oct 18, 2020)

Here are a few more factoids that might help.
1. I'm attaching a screenshot of the altered image I sometimes (seemingly at random) get when I try various things with the images. It looks to me like the first or a very early image in the image stack--the focus in the front. This implies that at least one image from the stack is included in the .dng file.
2. One time when I started LrC (9.2.1) I got a message along the lines of "This file appears to be damaged" for the 19C,S2 file. Next time I opened LR and looked at the same file, I didn't get that message. Huh?
3. When I downleaded 19C, S2 a second time and imported into LR, then tested if Lens Corrections changed it, I got a message along the lines of "Do you want to save the altered metadata to the file?" I've never seen this message before in LR. I answered "no", and the message didn't reappear for this or any of the other files as I fiddled with them.

I can only conclude, based on the inconsistencies I'm seeing, is that LR is confused by the contents of these files and can't interpret them in a consistent way.


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## JonathanP (Oct 19, 2020)

Hello,

I just happened to look here for some othe rinfo and spotted this thread, so I thought I best sign up as I'm pretty sure I know what the underlying problem is.

I had a similar problem a few years ago with a Leica M240 whose DNG previews kept occasionally showing an old image instead of the expected one. Eventually I tracked it down to a bug in the M240 DNG implementation.

What happens with DNG previews in Lightroom and Photoshop is that they index their previews in the catalogue by use of a couple EXIF tags. For Lightroom, the tag it uses is the RawDataUniqueID (and if I fremember correctkly Bridge uses the alternative ImageUniqueID). Importantly, it doesn't use normal file attributes such as name or size. The DNG spec requires any application that generates a DNG to insert a random, unique, ID string into the RawDataUniqueID field.

I downloaded your 3 example DNG files, and they have the same RawDataUniqueID value:

Raw Data Unique ID   : 000000000000000005EF2024231F8015
Raw Data Unique ID   : 000000000000000005EF2024231F8015
Raw Data Unique ID   : 000000000000000005EF2024231F8015

This is why I believe you are seeing the same previews - if its any consolation this drove me nuts with the M240!

If you use an Exif editor and make these unique, you should find the problem goes away. Lightroom isn't actually doing anything wrong (although perhaps its reliance on this one field is perhaps a little optimistic). The problem is with whatever appliction you used to create the DNG files.

I hope that might be of some help,

Jonathan

ps this was Lightroom behaviour about 5 years ago, but your symptoms sound so similar that I'm pretty confident its the same root cause


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## clee01l (Oct 19, 2020)

Jonathan, I think you might have hit on the issue. I can see where LrC might inspect the Raw Data Unique ID and come to the conclusion that it already has a preview stored.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Linwood Ferguson (Oct 19, 2020)

And which really would make it a Helicon bug.


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## JonathanP (Oct 19, 2020)

Yes, for the Leica M240 it tried to generate a random number, but unfortunately reset its "random" number generator every time it was switched on! The number it generated depended upon how long it had been switched on when you took the picture, so every few months you would get an image that would show an old preview. I used exiftool to replace the RawDataUniqueID for those images affected an d that solved the problem.


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## JonathanP (Oct 19, 2020)

In case it is of help to the OP when reporting the bug to Helicon, here's the definition of the RawDataUniqueID field from the DNG specification v1.4:


> This tag contains a 16-byte unique identifier for the raw image data in the DNG file. DNG readers can use this tag to recognize a particular raw image, even if the file's name or the metadata contained in the file has been changed.
> 
> If a DNG writer creates such an identifier, it should do so using an algorithm that will ensure that it is very unlikely two different images will end up having the same identifier.



I hope that helps,
Jonathan


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## johnrellis (Oct 21, 2020)

JonathanP said:


> I downloaded your 3 example DNG files, and they have the same RawDataUniqueID value:


I confirmed that this is indeed the cause of the misbehavior. When I imported the three sample .dngs into my LR 10, they all  showed the same preview. After I used Exiftool to delete the RawDataUniqueID fields and then reimported them, they showed different previews:

```
exiftool -rawdatauniqueid= *.dng
```


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## clee01l (Oct 21, 2020)

johnrellis said:


> I confirmed that this is indeed the cause of the misbehavior. When I imported the three sample .dngs into my LR 10, they all showed the same preview. After I used Exiftool to delete the RawDataUniqueID fields and then reimported them, they showed different previews:
> 
> ```
> exiftool -rawdatauniqueid= *.dng
> ```



So This seems to be a Helicon Bug that needs to be reported.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dkperez (Oct 22, 2020)

The "bug" was reported to Helicon a week or so ago.  They reproduced the problem, then went silent.

I put the entry from here about the .dng standard in the Helicon Support Forum.  I'm guessing they'll disagree and swat the ball back across the net to Adobe.  
Hopefully, I'm wrong and they'll fix it if it actually IS a problem on their end.

What I don't get is why this has been going on so long and nobody yelled?  I started seeing it as soon as I used the D850 to create stacks in RAW.  I can't be the only person the uses Helicon Focus this way and has the Lightroom problem with the .dng files.  Wouldn't Helicon have hit this when they tested - it's not like it's some subtle or minuscule thing...


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## johnrellis (Oct 22, 2020)

dkperez said:


> What I don't get is why this has been going on so long and nobody yelled?  I started seeing it as soon as I used the D850 to create stacks in RAW.  I can't be the only person the uses Helicon Focus this way and has the Lightroom problem with the .dng files.  Wouldn't Helicon have hit this when they tested - it's not like it's some subtle or minuscule thing...


Rereading the entire thread, it looks like I'm the only one (of about 6?) who was able to reproduce the problem with the sample files you posted. Which suggests subtleties in the conditions that trigger the bad behavior, which means that even reasonably careful testing by Helicon could have missed the issue. In general, bugs involving data caching can be devilishly ticklish to diagnose.


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