# Creative Cloud IS the way forward.



## gregDT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPTc79Qw2g4&

These compelling features, exclusive to the new subscription model, effectively make any criticism of Adobe's plans redundant.


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## clee01l

Well, that was worth the watch time!


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## Replytoken

I MUST HAVE rounder circles now!!! 

--Ken


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## johnbeardy

If you've ever used Photoshop for web design, you would welcome rounded rectangles, Ken. But that is a new feature, not a reason to welcome a change in the method of buying Photoshop,


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## Victoria Bampton

It's a PARODY John!  It's a little early for it....


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## johnbeardy

Ha, before my coffee, I didn't follow Greg's link


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## Samoreen

Hi,

Whatever Creative Cloud evangelists may say about this new wonderful pricing and distribution model, one thing is for sure : *before, you could purchase a license and use the product as long as you wished, now you can pay your subscription for years and you'll have nothing to play with once you stop paying*. All the rest is marketing blah blah. They claim they will deliver new product features as soon as they are available. Interesting. What means "as soon as they are available"? Until now, they have not been able to fix years-lasting bugs in PS and LR over several major upgrades. And they now pretend to update everything "on the go"? I'm afraid this means that CC subscribers will have to live with permanent beta software.

Anyway, if a part of their customers like this model, I have nothing against it as long as I still have access to the previous pricing model. Forcing me to switch to a subscription model for Photoshop is something that is disrespectful and merely not acceptable when considering all the money I already spent updating their products.

I'm also surprised that nobody (and Adobe in the first place) has a word for all these resellers who distributed their boxes around the world, helping them make their products successful. Before, they call them their partners. Now we know what partnership means for Adobe and how they reward both customer and reseller loyalty.


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## Replytoken

Victoria Bampton said:


> It's a PARODY John!



It was?  You mean that I cannot have rounder circles? :shock:

--Ken


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## Mark Romine

johnbeardy said:


> But that is a new feature, not a reason to welcome a change in the method of buying Photoshop,



New features? What more do I need PS to do?


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## Victoria Bampton

You need it to go out and take the photographs for you...


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## Katherine Mann

I've been thinking about this all week. I listened to all sorts of things, the NAP guys, Adobe Evangelists, Jeff Tranberry, Jeff Schewe and on and on. 

The bottom line is that, if I want to upgrade Ps when the time comes, I simply have to do so via the Cloud. Owning PS6 is helpful. It means I can get the thing for $10 a month for the first year. And then it's $20 a month. I spend more than that on things I don't want. 

The quandary, however, is this: For people with Cs6 products they offer the entire Creative Cloud suite for $20 for the year and then $50 thereafter. That includes Lr5. But, I wouldn't be able to outlay $50 ad infinitum. So at the end of the year I would lose Lr5 when I switch back to the single ap version of CC - PsCC.

Not having upgraded Lr4 to Lr5 as a standalone then, I would likely be a version behind and have to purchase the program again. 

I own InDesign 5.5 too, but it's not essential to me. I could stay there easily. The rest of the Creative Cloud isn't of much use to me either. Moreover, I haven't time nor energy to invest in learning all those other programs - such as Premier Pro. So I would definitely drop to the single ap version at the end of the year.

I think the thing to do is this: I will purchase the CC version of Photoshop at $10 a month and then take the hit at the end of the year. I will upgrade Lightroom to version 5 as a standalone. 

What concerns me though, is that Lr5 standalone owners will not get the benefit of updates, particularly to ACR. That would truly suck, as Ps and Lr would then be out of sync.

What do you think?


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## Victoria Bampton

Honestly - personally I'd wait for a few weeks, at least until CC ships, and maybe until just before the deal expires, and then make a decision.  There's enough angry photographers out there, and a lot of chatter about the possibility of some kind of Photographer's Cloud, so things could change yet.


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## Katherine Mann

Thanks for the quick reply. A photographer's cloud would settle a lot of the going on and on and on .... I'd be happy with PsCC and LrCC at a reasonable price. Really happy.

They could throw in InDesign too and make the thing perfect!

What a week!


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## Katherine Mann

From the Creative Cloud blog: "http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/" As Victoria mentioned, they are considering the specific needs of the photographer community ... stay tuned I guess.


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## Mark Romine

Katherine Mann said:


> From the Creative Cloud blog: "http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/" As Victoria mentioned, they are considering the specific needs of the photographer community ... stay tuned I guess.



Thanks for sharing at least there maybe a future option.


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## LouieSherwin

I just received and responded to a request from Adobe Adobe Research asking a series of questions about my intended usage Creative Cloud vs Creative Suite. I thought it was well done and addressed the core issues that have been raised by many here and other discussions I have followed. It seems clear to me that they have heard the concerns and are trying to understand what us users are wanting.

For myself as a photographer I was able to make it clear that I am not really interested in another "Cloud" service. I just need and want to continue using primarily Lightroom and sometimes Photoshop. And in this context the improvement I most desire is improvements in Lightroom's DAM features and the ability to share a catalog among several computers. All of these are well represented on the Feedback site. 

After consideration I have decided that I will probably go ahead and "rent" the CC version of Photoshop. As good as Lightroom is there are things that you just can't do as well in a procedural editor as you can is a pixel editor, layers for example. Also I don't want the hassle of dealing with the two different feature sets in LR5 and CS6 ACR. And ultimately the cost is not that much more than I have already been paying staying on the upgrade path. 

I don't know how wide spread this survey was but I think it is a good sign that Adobe is reaching out to the customers and getting better feedback.

-louie


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## Victoria Bampton

Sounds like a good plan Louie - but you might want to hold off until they announce what they learned from the survey, as they don't often backdate offers.


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## LouieSherwin

Yup, I have Photoshop CS6 now and will wait and see how events unfold. 

-louie


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## Katherine Mann

Louie, I think your requirements are just about the same as most of us in the photographic community. We love Lightroom, need Photoshop. Need the two of them to work seamlessly. That is pretty much all there is to it. I need InDesign too, and I have 5.5, but I expect it will still work fine without going to the cloud. It isn't like I'm doing collaborative projects. 

The Cloud paradigm is perfect for collaboration I expect, and it will be a great thing for teams and business, design studios ... 

I am one of those 'I love working with people as long as they leave me the **** alone." heh. 

I'm waiting, and thank you Victoria for the head's up. It's clear that Adobe is going to smooth some feathers in our community in the next while. When they do I will go to PS CC. In the meantime I will upgrade Lr to 5 as soon as it comes out. I can't imagine not having a working model of Lr, which holds so much information apart from the development module. I have spent so much time with the catalogue that I can't imagine doing without it. And I feel more secure knowing that my "Ownership" of the program is not dependent upon paying a monthly fee. I truly understand what the fuss is about ...


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## Victoria Bampton

Katherine Mann said:


> In the meantime I will upgrade Lr to 5 as soon as it comes out.... I feel more secure knowing that my "Ownership" of the program is not dependent upon paying a monthly fee. I truly understand what the fuss is about ...



A question for you to debate in the meantime... what if they come out with a LR/PS bundle?  If they did, you might then decide to get a perpetual license when you quit subscription, rather than now.  Just a thought (without any inside information on any Adobe decisions!)


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## gregDT

Victoria Bampton said:


> A question for you to debate in the meantime... what if they come out with a LR/PS bundle?  If they did, you might then decide to get a perpetual license when you quit subscription, rather than now.  Just a thought (without any inside information on any Adobe decisions!)



Now there's a question. I'm quite taken with the idea of a photographers option. Full Lightroom with a cut down  version of Photoshop. Rolling updates and a monthly subscription...... That would be seriously tempting. Of course everyone's mileage will differ but for a commercial 'tog like me it does make sense. Sort of Elements big brother


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## Samoreen

gregDT said:


> I'm quite taken with the idea of a photographers option.



This idea is already under discussion :

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5344471#5344471
http://forums.adobe.com/message/5342057#5342057
 http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=78240.0

IMHO, this should be both an acceptable solution for many photographers and an acceptable compromise for Adobe. Moreover, it's easy to release such a version : no need to add new features for the moment, they only have to remove some code and simplify the user interface. Well, it should be easy : PS is built on a very old architecture that has got, like many other "monster software", almost totally out of control. Removing code may have severe side effects on the remaining code.

A good (old) example of such a situation was IBM's (in)famous DOS 5.0. It took so much space in memory that very often, there was not enough space to run applications (especially when the network drivers were loaded). There was a lot of "dead code" in this version of DOS that could not be called by application. But removing that code caused the whole thing to crash (this is an insider's view  ).

You might also be interested in this thread.


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## Katherine Mann

Victoria, I just noticed your reply ... I upgraded today and I'm pleased with it! My concern about putting off getting a perpetual license was regarding the version that I would be jumping. I have owned Lr since day one. If, while I'm subscribing, the version jumps to 6 ... then I would be a version behind and have to pay for the entire program again. N'est-ce pas?


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## Hal P Anderson

Katherine,

So far, no. Adobe have done that for Photoshop, but not for LR. You can still, AFAIK, upgrade (for the upgrade price) to 5.0 from as far back as 1.x. 

Hal


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## Katherine Mann

I was thinking that the most reasonable thing for Adobe to do is exactly as you said, Victoria: a PSCC and LR5 bundle on the cloud. I just upgraded my standalone Lr to 5 and will subscribe to PSCC when it comes out. That way I won't be a version behind and unable to upgrade my standalone Lr5 when the time comes. So, I am guessing that they will keep Lr5 in synch with PSCC in any case ... at least I sure hope so. Otherwise they will really succeed in pissing off the photographic community.


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## gregDT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPTc79Qw2g4&

These compelling features, exclusive to the new subscription model, effectively make any criticism of Adobe's plans redundant.


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## Samoreen

Katherine Mann said:


> I was thinking that the most reasonable thing for Adobe to do is exactly as you said, Victoria: a PSCC and LR5 bundle on the cloud.



I disagree. The main problem with CC is that you lose everything once you have stopped paying. I don't want LR to be included in this model. IMHO, there are only two acceptable solutions for photographers. The first is presented here (as mentioned above)

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5344471#5344471
http://forums.adobe.com/message/5342057#5342057
 http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=78240.0

and the second here 

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5348821#5348821


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## Katherine Mann

Mainsoft, the main problem with PSCS6 is that it will not be upgraded. I don't know about you but I like to have the latest version of photoshop. I appreciate the new capabilities, even though I use it only for photographs. I could not do without Photoshop, and recognize that it just got a little more expensive, and it will continue to do so. I have PSCS6 and always will have it to fall back on as long as I save my files as flattened tifs. CC is the way forward, and, soon, when they stop making CS6 available, it will be the only one. There are some things worth getting in a knot about, and this is not one of them. (but then I am old and less likely to get my nose out of joint about things than I once was)

The new Smart Sharpen filter is a beauty, and the ability to use ACR as a filter is another - especially used as a filter on a Smart Layer. Think of that - it's huge, really. I remember doing something similar in a fairly convoluted way back in the day - and now it is idiot simple. I love it.


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## Katherine Mann

So, today they announced the Photoshop/Lightroom bundle on CC for owners of Photoshop CS3 or later. The price will be $9.99 a month going forward. 
I purchased an upgrade to Lr5 when it was released, but, given all the new capabilities planned for Lr5 - web interactive functionality in particular, Behance-centric is looks like - I was pleased to hear about this offer. 

I wondered if I would qualify, having subscribed to PsCC when it was available at 9.99 a month for the first year. Apparently, I will and the transition will be automatic. This is from Terry White's blog today for the information of those of you who might be in the same position as I am.

"Q: I am already a Creative Cloud member; do I qualify for this offer?
Existing Creative Cloud members who wish to transition to this offer must own a previous version of Photoshop or Photoshop Extended product, version CS3 or later (CS3.x, CS4, CS5.x, or CS6). Suites do not qualify.
Those who meet the qualifications have two options:
Creative Cloud Single App members for Photoshop CC who already completed the qualification process when they originally signed up for their membership will be automatically transitioned to this new program when it ships, with the additional benefits and lower ongoing price."

The really neat thing about this is that, whereas as a subscriber to PsCC for the first year at a cost of 9.99 a month on a yearly subscription, and facing an increase in price at the end of the first year, this offer will include Lr5 and PsCC for the ongoing price of 9.99, that is, not limited to the year. !!! 

I'm sure there will still be people who like to feel badly treated who will grouch about it, but it seems like a sweet deal to me. 

I might have waited to upgrade Lr until this offer, which Victoria was kind enough to hint broadly about above, but then I would not have had Lr 5.0 for the past several months, and it is worth it to me to have upgraded my standalone. As well, I have a perpetual license for both PsCs6 and Lr5 at this point, should I need to drop out of the subscription service on the cloud. Nothing to gripe about from this quarter! 

Thanks Adobe!


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## Replytoken

I am happy that this new arrangement works for you, Katherine, but for those of us who do not presently own an eligible copy of PS, Adobe is not really offering us any way to join you "in the club".

--Ken


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## neil79

Is their a new deal for UK users ?    $9.99 translates to around £6.40 UK but why do I get the feeling Adobe will ask for at least £9.99.  Still don't like the subscription  idea.  This shows that Adobe are not hitting their targets for CC.


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## Kiwigeoff

neil79 said:


> Is their a new deal for UK users ?    $9.99 translates to around £6.40 UK but why do I get the feeling Adobe will ask for at least £9.99.  Still don't like the subscription  idea.  This shows that Adobe are not hitting their targets for CC.


Neil, speculation or feelings don't add much.... I hear that the UK may be around 7.50...  How do you know what Adobe's target are and whether they are being met?Me, I would say that Adobe have listened to the market and are responding.


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## neil79

Kiwigeoff said:


> Neil, speculation or feelings don't add much.... I hear that the UK may be around 7.50...  How do you know what Adobe's target are and whether they are being met?Me, I would say that Adobe have listened to the market and are responding.



Another way of saying that Adobe are not hitting their targets


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## Katherine Mann

Replytoken said:


> I am happy that this new arrangement works for you, Katherine, but for those of us who do not presently own an eligible copy of PS, Adobe is not really offering us any way to join you "in the club".
> 
> --Ken



Ken, I bought Photoshop initially in 1996. I have upgraded many times. It cost me a few thousand dollars. I have invested in the program.

While I sympathize with you, having to start at the beginning, I have to ask why you think that your cost should be the same as mine at this point? Do you think we should get the same deal? I wouldn't mind at all if you did - but I am betting that many in my position would feel slighted if their investment was calculated to be the same value as theirs. This is a professional level program and it is expensive.

That being said, it seems to me that there is still an inexpensive option for you - subscribe to the cloud and pay the very low price for one application monthly. A single ap subscription, with no yearly commitment is $29. Compare that to pre-cloud prices - what was it - $699 initially and $200 every year and a half to upgrade? It's a terrific deal!


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## clee01l

Katherine Mann said:


> ...A single ap subscription, with no yearly commitment is $29. Compare that to pre-cloud prices - what was it - $699 initially and $200 every year and a half to upgrade? It's a terrific deal!


That $29US/mo is $350 per year and becomes a money losing proposition after 3 years based upon your pre cloud pricing.   Out of ignorance some of us bought Creative Suite when we only needed PhotoShop wasting lost of money at Adobe because Adobe did not advertise or market the standalone PS Price. Adobe would not let you down grade CS to PS standalone without paying full price.  CS2 (which I unfortunately own and could not downgrade to PS11 or PS12) is not included in the marketing "deal" being offered to Prior Licensees.


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## Replytoken

Katherine Mann said:


> Ken, I bought Photoshop initially in 1996. I have upgraded many times. It cost me a few thousand dollars. I have invested in the program.
> 
> While I sympathize with you, having to start at the beginning, I have to ask why you think that your cost should be the same as mine at this point? Do you think we should get the same deal? I wouldn't mind at all if you did - but I am betting that many in my position would feel slighted if their investment was calculated to be the same value as theirs. This is a professional level program and it is expensive.
> 
> That being said, it seems to me that there is still an inexpensive option for you - subscribe to the cloud and pay the very low price for one application monthly. A single ap subscription, with no yearly commitment is $29. Compare that to pre-cloud prices - what was it - $699 initially and $200 every year and a half to upgrade? It's a terrific deal!



Hi Katherine,

I did not think, nor did I state in my post, that my costs should be the same as yours.  I am, however, disappointed that Adobe is not really allowing a middle ground alternative for a photographer who has been using Lightroom and may now be interested in using CC/PS.  If I understand their pricing proposal, the single app subscription would only get me PS, and I am assuming that CC/LR would be an additional cost, so my monthly cost would actually be more than $29.  In short, Adobe pricing encourages you to buy the full package if one app is not enough.  There are almost no reasonable middle ground options except for previous PS users who also want access to LR.  If Adobe's offers to encourage new subscribers is that marginal, the cost of looking at alternative products is now quite a bit lower for folks like me.

Regarding slighting due to different pricing, I got over that many years ago when they introduced academic and institutional pricing.  I would venture to say that for every person who is taking advantage of this offer from Adobe, and has invested thousands of dollars in prior versions like yourself, there is another person who picked up an affordable copy at a deep discount last year and is also signing up for this offer.  IMHO, there is little sense of right or wrong in software sales with respect to fairness.  Microsoft makes copies of Office Professional, one of their most exclusive and comprehensive software suites, available to me at $19.99USD because of my employer.  Like PS, this is a professional level program and is expensive.  And, if you are not eligible for my level of pricing, you could opt for a subscription model ranging in price from $12.50 to $20 per month.  While not expensive in an absolute sense, it is not much of a bargain in a direct comparison.  I understand this is how business is conducted and market share captured, but it does not generate a whole lot of good will for folks not "in the club".  While not everybody can have access to the lowest tier of pricing, nobody wants to be in the highest tier, otherwise know as MSRP.  It would be nice if Adobe threw out a few more farily priced middle ground options to grow their customer base.

--Ken


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## Linwood Ferguson

Replytoken said:


> I am happy that this new arrangement works for you, Katherine, but for those of us who do not presently own an eligible copy of PS, Adobe is not really offering us any way to join you "in the club".
> 
> --Ken


I wonder if you could find a legitimate copy of CS5 or CS4 still out there which could be bought cheap (before someone else realizes the implications)?  Some camera store with a dusty copy sitting on a shelf perhaps?


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## Victoria Bampton

I saw an Adobe UK tweet with UK pricing which was £8.78. That's $13.70 at today's rates, so when you take 23% Irish VAT into account (US figures are excluding taxes) and currency fluctuations, that's not miles out.

I'm still waiting to hear if there will be a higher price for the bundle for those who haven't purchased yet - details are still pretty sketchy at the moment, but should be clearer in a couple of weeks.


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## JulieM

Victoria Bampton said:


> I saw an Adobe UK tweet with UK pricing which was £8.78. That's $13.70 at today's rates, so when you take 23% Irish VAT into account (US figures are excluding taxes) and currency fluctuations, that's not miles out.
> 
> I'm still waiting to hear if there will be a higher price for the bundle for those who haven't purchased yet - details are still pretty sketchy at the moment, but should be clearer in a couple of weeks.



Hi Victoria, 

I notice that the Creative Layer blog post has been updated with prices for non-North American customers.  Looks like it's £7.14 GBP:

http://blogs.adobe.com/creativelayer/introducing-the-photoshop-photography-program/


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## Victoria Bampton

Oh that's even better!  Doh - PLUS VAT


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## Katherine Mann

Here's a link for PsCs6 at $420 Cdn
http://www.canadasoftwareoutlet.ca/digital-downloads/adobe/adobe-photoshop-cs6-windows-download.html

I'm sure there are even better deals out there.

and one for $369 Cdn

http://www.thesoftwaretechstore.com...obe/adobe-photoshop-cs6-windows-download.html


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## Replytoken

Katherine Mann said:


> Here's a link for PsCs6 at $420 Cdn
> http://www.canadasoftwareoutlet.ca/digital-downloads/adobe/adobe-photoshop-cs6-windows-download.html
> 
> I'm sure there are even better deals out there.
> 
> and one for $369 Cdn
> 
> http://www.thesoftwaretechstore.com...obe/adobe-photoshop-cs6-windows-download.html



Thank you for posting these links, Katherine.  Have you ordered from either company?  I am a bit puzzled as B&H has CS6 on sale for $619 USD, and their prices are very competitve.  How is a company able to sell this same package for $369?

--Ken


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## Replytoken

A quick search, and based on the posts in this thread, I am not so certain that what they are selling is legit: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2069760 .

--Ken


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## Katherine Mann

Replytoken, I haven't ordered software from these guys ... and I wouldn't. I read your thread. I'd stay clear. I think they are pirating ... yep. 
I always by my software directly from Adobe and download it.


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