# ? Sharpening



## rmunk (Dec 3, 2015)

Using Lightroom CC, import raw files and 1:1 preview.  Have read that when sharpening should view at 1:1, but always blurry and grainy at that level.  Recently read that viewing at 50% for sharpening was more realistic.  What is the answer???:hm:


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## Replytoken (Dec 3, 2015)

In general, I sharpen at 1:1, but sharpening can be a simple or elaborate process depending on how much you want to do.  I am a bit more concerned about your 1:1 view being blurry and grainy.  Is this the case for all of your files?

--Ken


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## acquacow (Dec 3, 2015)

I always sharpen at 1:1 or a bit closer just so I can really manage any halos that might be created and adjust accordingly.

Also, most of my work ends up on the web at much smaller res, so I end up framing images in faststone and resizing via lanczos3 and then applying some added sharpening there (2).


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 3, 2015)

The idea that you should view the image at 50% when you sharpen it is not based on Lightroom, but on Photoshop. It's is meant for sharpening for prints. Because prints have a higher resolution than your screen, the effect of sharpening is less pronounced than when viewed at 100% on screen. As a result, many people do not sharpen enough for prints. If you sharpen the image while you view it at 50%, you'll get a better idea about how it will look in print.

Lightroom's sharpening is different however, because it's based on two-step sharpening. You sharpen the image to remove any blurring (caused by the low pass filter in the camera for example), so you do that while viewing at 100%. When you print the image, you can sharpen it again in the print module. You don't get a preview of that kind of sharpening, however. You just have to make a few test prints for your printer to see which setting is best, and then use that for all your images.


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## Jimmsp (Dec 3, 2015)

JohanElzenga said:


> ......
> 
> Lightroom's sharpening is different however, because it's based on two-step sharpening. You sharpen the image to remove any blurring (caused by the low pass filter in the camera for example), so you do that while viewing at 100%. When you print the image, you can sharpen it again in the print module. You don't get a preview of that kind of sharpening, however. You just have to make a few test prints for your printer to see which setting is best, and then use that for all your images.


I also do some "creative" sharpening at times in LR by using the adjustment brush, increase only the sharpening slider (sometimes I add a bit of clarity), and brushing over the area I want to be additionally sharpened. Most of the time I am at 100% when I do this.


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## clee01l (Dec 3, 2015)

A visual review of the sharpening effects is screen dependent.  A standard screen has a density of 96-120 dpi. A HiRes screen has a density of 240dpi or better.  A HiRes screen approaches print resolutions. 

The 1:1 viewing rule might have applied for a standard 1920X1080 screen It would not give the same results on a HiRes (retina) screen  Also viewing distance affects the apparent sharpness of a viewed image. 

Sharpening occurs in three places on the way to the final image.  


*Pre-Sharpening:* This occurs when the RAW data is demosaic'd and converted to RGB. This can be in Camera if you get a JPEG out of the camera, or in LR/ACR to present the initial image on the screen. You have no control over this type of sharpening.
*Post process sharpening:* This utilizes the controls in LR present in the develop module. Here you have the most control. If you turn on Masking, you can fine tune your sharpening to the edge effects and not sharpen the background or noise. Also Holding down the {Opt/Alt} while moving the Sharpening sliders gives a better control  view over the effects of the tool.
*Sharpening on Export:* Here you sharpen for the destination media.  The controls are course and general.  Control is limited. You have three media choices – screen (lo res), matte and glossy prints.  Also three broad settings – Low, Standard and High.

Here is a link to a two part discussion of sharpening.  I think it discussed LR3, but the process is the same today. 
https://x-equals.com/blog/sharpening-in-lightroom-part-1-of-2/


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 3, 2015)

clee01l said:


> A visual review of the sharpening effects is screen dependent.  A standard screen has a density of 96-120 dpi. A HiRes screen has a density of 240dpi or better.  A HiRes screen approaches print resolutions.
> 
> The 1:1 viewing rule might have applied for a standard 1920X1080 screen It would not give the same results on a HiRes (retina) screen  Also viewing distance affects the apparent sharpness of a viewed image.
> 
> ...



Except that I think that Lightroom 3 did not have output sharpening in the Print module yet. That is why nothing is mentioned about printing from Lightroom, only exporting from Lightroom.


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## Jimmsp (Dec 3, 2015)

clee01l said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is where I think the terminology gets confusing; at least for me.
Some notable people, including Jeff Schewe of Luminous Landscapes, talk about Capture Sharpening, followed by Creative Sharpening, followed by Output sharpening. Jeff calls the sharpening done in the LR develop module Capture Sharpening.
I tend to like that definition, as it is the first sharpening that I can do after I import a picture.
I later do my creative sharpening in a variety of ways, including PhotoShop and 3rd party packages.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 3, 2015)

Jimmsp said:


> This is where I think the terminology gets confusing; at least for me.
> Some notable people, including Jeff Schewe of Luminous Landscapes, talk about Capture Sharpening, followed by Creative Sharpening, followed by Output sharpening. Jeff calls the sharpening done in the LR develop module Capture Sharpening.
> I tend to like that definition, as it is the first sharpening that I can do after I import a picture.
> I later do my creative sharpening in a variety of ways, including PhotoShop and 3rd party packages.



I agree that this is not the usual terminology any more. Don't forget it's a very old link. Today, most people do indeed talk about Capture sharpening, Creative sharpening and Output sharpening. That's just semantics however. The idea is still the same, namely that you do a general sharpening first, any local ('creative') sharpening second, and then you sharpen depending on the output.


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## clee01l (Dec 3, 2015)

Jimmsp said:


> This is where I think the terminology gets confusing; at least for me.
> Some notable people, including Jeff Schewe of Luminous Landscapes, talk about Capture Sharpening, followed by Creative Sharpening, followed by Output sharpening. Jeff calls the sharpening done in the LR develop module Capture Sharpening.
> I tend to like that definition, as it is the first sharpening that I can do after I import a picture.
> I later do my creative sharpening in a variety of ways, including PhotoShop and 3rd party packages.


I do not know the references that you have to Jeff Schewe, but Capture sharpening could also be a description of Pre-Sharpening, where the RAW data is demosaic'd and converted to RGB.  To me the sharpening in the Develop module is "Create sharpening"


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## clee01l (Dec 3, 2015)

JohanElzenga said:


> Except that I think that Lightroom 3 did not have output sharpening in the Print module yet. That is why nothing is mentioned about printing from Lightroom, only exporting from Lightroom.


Lightroom 3.6 has Print sharpening with the same options as the export dialog.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 3, 2015)

clee01l said:


> Lightroom 3.6 has Print sharpening with the same options as the export dialog.



Yes, apparently it was introduced much earlier than I remembered: in Lightroom 2.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 3, 2015)

clee01l said:


> I do not know the references that you have to Jeff Schewe, but Capture sharpening could also be a description of Pre-Sharpening, where the RAW data is demosaic'd and converted to RGB.  To me the sharpening in the Develop module is "Create sharpening"



AFAIK the sharpening methods in Lightroom were based on a system that was introduced by the late Bruce Fraser. Jeff Schewe was also part of that 'pixelgenius' team. They used 'Capture sharpening' for the first global sharpening, 'Creative sharpening' for local sharpening like eye lashes in a portrait and 'Output sharpening' for export and print sharpening. BTW, in the Export dialog in Lightroom it is also called 'Output sharpening'. Anyway, it's just semantics as long as you understand the principle behind it.


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## saeidf (Dec 3, 2015)

hello specialists
i have a question about importing photo and the noise comeing with my cr2(raw) photos in lightroom
in comparison between importing camera raw(in PS) and lightroom, lightroom has more noise on it, and the exported file has the same bug. why camera raw(ps) is better in same details?!!!
the photos are same file as named _img_0011.cr2 , but they are different. 
please help me


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## acquacow (Dec 6, 2015)

If I were to guess, it might have to do with some resampling math at that 177% view size. I couldn't get mine to do anything like that, but at 200%, they both look very similar to me on an iso5000 grainy picture.






I'll have to take a photo with less noise on a smooth surface and see what I can see.

I'd zoom to 200% on both and see what that looks like.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 6, 2015)

saeidf said:


> hello specialists
> i have a question about importing photo and the noise comeing with my cr2(raw) photos in lightroom
> in comparison between importing camera raw(in PS) and lightroom, lightroom has more noise on it, and the exported file has the same bug. why camera raw(ps) is better in same details?!!!
> the photos are same file as named _img_0011.cr2 , but they are different.
> please help me



Asking the same question twice doesn't give you a better answer. As already said in another thread, you can't compare a 177% magnification in ACR with a different magnification in Lightroom (Lightroom doesn't allow 177%, so Lightroom is probably at 200%), so you may be looking at an illusion. Another possibility is that Lightroom applies some adjustments on import (for example Clarity) while ACR does not. You may have changed the default settings without even realizing it, or you may have a preset applied on import.


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## Conrad Chavez (Dec 7, 2015)

JohanElzenga said:


> AFAIK the sharpening methods in Lightroom were based on a system that was introduced by the late Bruce Fraser. Jeff Schewe was also part of that 'pixelgenius' team. They used 'Capture sharpening' for the first global sharpening, 'Creative sharpening' for local sharpening like eye lashes in a portrait and 'Output sharpening' for export and print sharpening. BTW, in the Export dialog in Lightroom it is also called 'Output sharpening'. Anyway, it's just semantics as long as you understand the principle behind it.


That's correct. The terms Capture Sharpening, Creative Sharpening, and Output Sharpening do come from the PixelGenius team, and the way Bruce worked it all out is in this article from 12 years ago: Out of Gamut: Thoughts on a Sharpening Workflow
("Out of Gamut" has nothing to do with the workflow, it was the former name of his column on that website.)

It is also true that the way sharpening works in Lightroom is actually tied rather tightly to this three-stage workflow. Several members of the PixelGenius team, including Bruce Fraser and Jeff Schewe, and I believe Martin Evening as well, were involved in the development of Lightroom 1.0, and the three-stage sharpening workflow influenced where and how Adobe implemented sharpening in Lightroom and Camera Raw. So it's important to understand the three-stage sharpening workflow to get the most out of sharpening in Lightroom and ACR.



clee01l said:


> I do not know the references that you have to Jeff Schewe, but Capture sharpening could also be a description of Pre-Sharpening, where the RAW data is demosaic'd and converted to RGB. To me the sharpening in the Develop module is "Create sharpening"


According to the three-stage workflow in the article linked above, that’s not how it would work. Earlier you said you have no control over what was called “pre-sharpening” at the demosaic stage, but in fact the Develop Module sharpening is intended to be capture sharpening, initial demosaic-stage sharpening to compensate for softness introduced during capture by the sensor of a scanner or digital camera.  As Bruce writes (for Photoshop, since Lightroom didn't exist in 2003):



> Capture sharpening must be done carefully: I apply Unsharp Mask to a pixel layer in Luminosity mode, using an edge mask either as a layer mask, or as the selection for the sharpened pixels. That way, the sharpening is non-destructive and the luminosity blending prevents color fringing. I can modify the global sharpening strength by varying the opacity of the sharpening layer, and I can modify the local sharpening by changing the contrast of the mask


The options you have in Develop module Sharpening are a highly automated (and much easier to use) version of what used to take several layers and effects ganged together in Photoshop as originally described in the quote. You have a strength option and an edge mask, both under your control, so you do have control over capture sharpening in Lightroom.

Creative sharpening is done with local adjustment tools as Johan said. It’s considered “creative” because you use sharpening it to emphasize areas you want to draw the eye to.

Another aspect of both Lightroom and ACR is how sharpening and noise reduction are grouped in the same panel. They are intended to be adjusted together, and the relationship between noise reduction and sharpening that caused Adobe to group them is described in recent Lightroom/Camera Raw books by both Schewe and Evening.


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