# Looking for a decent 35mm Slide / 35mm negative / Photo / Photo Negative Scanner



## rozel (Mar 23, 2022)

Hi all

First of all I must thank the people who have helped me with LRC in setting up my workflow.  I am using LRC now to sort and edit my huge digital photo collection covering the last 22/23 years.  I have the recommended 1-2-3 backup strategy in place and am at the point where I am switching my Cloud based storage from Dropbox to Google Drive / Photos.  I use Syncbackpro v10 for the backing up to the cloud and to a further internal drive on my PC.   I have also in the last few weeks managed to to integrate Teamviewer to work alongside LRC, whilst I am away so I can basically export my on the road stuff to a "Not Sorted" folder on my PC - I'm using LR Android whilst away and editing using LRC when I get back home.  Currently I'm using a Canon Eos 90.  I  don't want to use Adobe Cloud, before someone chips in  - and I positively hate "syncing" between folders etc - backup yes but not syncing as you can easily lose stuff.  My primary aim whilst away is to export to my photos to my PC's "Not Sorted" folder to work on later and transfer to my catalogue(s).  I hate amassing photos on a lot of devices as it takes time to sort duplicates out etc.  I also transfer the photos to another external drive based in one of my Media Players, to view my completed work on a large screen TV.   So I've been very busy working things out for the 2 years since last posting - but I definately would not have benefitted by using LRC if I hadn't come here - so a massive thank you.

OK to my question (lol) - So having backed up and edited my digital photos taken during the past 22/23 years, my attention is now turning to sorting my huge collection of Paper Photos & negatives for the 20 year period previous and then all my other family photos dating back to when I was born (1953) and well before that too. 

I have tested out my Flatbed Scanner - an Epson Perfection 1650 and whilst it produces decent results, this scanner is really quite old.  I am using Windows 10 and have paired the scanner to the VueScan software but I am sure there are better Slide and paper Photo scanners (along with associated negatives) out there that would do the job better (in higher quality) and much faster too.

So please can anyone give me some pointers as to what to go for?

Thank you

Paul


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## Replytoken (Mar 23, 2022)

This is a deep rabbit hole.  I guess I would start at what you want for a final product and how much do you want to spend?  The ideal solution for 35mm slides and negatives is going to be a dedicated scanner, and they can get expensive.  The choices have narrowed considerably over the years as well.  A more affordable options is to buy an attachment and use a macro lens and DSLR.  Nikon offers the adapter, which is affordable, and many have got good results, but it is not necessarily a fast process.  You could also send your stuff out if that has any appeal.  Finally, some folks use high end flatbed scanners, but again it depends on your budget and expectations.

And if you have a large collection, you may want to do some type of fast, simple scanning to just see what is worth your time and attention.  I suspect that much of my film and slide library is not worth the effort, but you have to know to be able to sort out the keepers.

There have been a number of threads on the forum about scanning, and I would encourage you to search by terms like Vuescan, Silverfast, Epson, Coolscan, etc. to find some of the threads.  Hardware will be mentioned in many of the threads along with some assessments by members.

Good luck,

--Ken


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## dominique.gascon (Mar 23, 2022)

Most people will have experience with few, if not only one scanner, and you are likely to get biased opinions (like mine) since I did not have the opportunity to compare.  I am using an Epson Perfection V850 pro (there is maybe a newer model) and I am quite please with it.  It is a bit pricey, $2000.00 CDN at the time. Before purchasing, I did an internet search and this one was generally amongst the top rated scanner, if not the best rated one; it is also the same model that my photo supply store uses for commercial purposes.

I comes with with its own software, EPSON Scan which is pretty basic (but since I do my post editing in Lightroom I don't really care). Silverfast (I think that what it is called) was also included, but the version offered on the CD ROM would only support up to the V800, I could not try it.  Since the  reviews that I saw where split, I did not the need to buy the updated version of Silverfast. The V850  scans 12 slides, or 3 sections of negatives (of up to 6 frames) at the time and it takes on my computer 45 minutes to scan 12 slides with Digital Ice, 18 without and a bit longer for negatives  if you have the maximum number of frames. Since post processing takes much longer than the scanning itself, it is not a major issue


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## GaryG (Mar 23, 2022)

As Ken said, this is a rabbit hole.  I've used a Epson Perfection V500 Photo to scan about 3000 family photos.  The V500 has been replaced with the V550 or V600.  I compared VueScan to the Epson Scan software and found they were about equal for B&W photos, and I preferred the color restoration feature with Epson Scan over VueScan's color restoration.  I use the color restoration feature for photos I want to keep, but aren't good enough to do further editing with LRClassic.

Besides searching this site another site I've found useful is; www.scanyourentirelife.com.


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## Paul_DS256 (Mar 23, 2022)

rozel said:


> OK to my question (lol) - So having backed up and edited my digital photos taken during the past 22/23 years, my attention is now turning to sorting my huge collection of Paper Photos & negatives for the 20 year period previous and then all my other family photos dating back to when I was born (1953) and well before that too.


Yes, this is definitely a rabbit hole. 

I've been scanning using my V500 and found it good except for the length of time it takes to scan images and the desired quality.   I also used a friends V750, with larger capacity, but again, time.

One approach I'm using is to first scan small thumbnails so that I can view them in LrC to determine if a full scan is warranted. 

If I was starting over, I'd likely experiment with using my camera and adapters for film/slide. I would likely need to buy a suitable lens as well. However, this would allow to get through the process faster and the culling could be done at the same time, especially if you had the camera tethered.


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## rozel (Mar 24, 2022)

@Replytoken @dominique.gascon @GaryG and @Paul_DS256
Thank you so much for your responses, really very much appreciated.  Indeed a rabbit hole!  I live in the UK and am keen to establish a method for my project which I want to undertake myself and not ship it out externally.  I have well over 100 36 x 35mm slide magazines, at least 50-odd reels of 8mm & Super8 film and heaps of photo albums and loose photos.  I'm retired so have time on my hands.



Replytoken said:


> This is a deep rabbit hole. I guess I would start at what you want for a final product and how much do you want to spend?


I would like affordable and decent quality results and am willing to spend around £300 to £400 on my project.  I currently use a Canon EOS 90 DSLR - I have a 50mm (fixed focal length) lens but whilst this isn't a "macro lens", I do have a set of macro tubes.  I also have an old Hama Telescreen Video 3-in-1 which I experimented with some years back to transfer some of my late father's 8mm & Super 8mm film reels to video, using a camcorder.  Given the quality of the footage, the results were reasonable.



GaryG said:


> I compared VueScan to the Epson Scan software


I have extensive experience with Epson Flatbed scanners (not for the purpose of my project) - as mentioned in my post, I currently deploy an Epson Perfection 1650 but which is now quite old now and because Epson's own software no longer supports this model running on Windows 10, I have bought and installed VueScan which I find acceptable for my current basic scanning needs.  A few years back I experimented with my scanner to see what I could achieve quality-wise scanning some of my late father's 35mm slides.  I got resonable results but given the max resolution of my scanner is 1,600 x 3,200 DPI , I'm now looking for something better.

I had thought that "scanners" had moved on over the past few years.  I mean yes the Epson V600, the more expensive (as mentioned) V800/850 and the CanoScan 900F /  900F Mkii models are all quite dated yet seem to be recommended.  Maybe I'm wrong - are there others?  Obviously using a flatbed scanner means the process will be very slow.  But if the results can maximise out the quality of the sources, then this is acceptable to me.  I'm guessing that the scanners just mentioned may max out the quality of the source?  I would like to know a little more though how exactly my DSLR can be used;  would it quicken the process and what would the quality be compared with flatbeds. 

Thanks again

Paul


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## GaryG (Mar 24, 2022)

To use your DSLR, get the book Digitizing Your Photos by Peter Krogh. It is an excellent resource that explains how to do it for slides, negatives, photos, and photo albums.


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## Woodbutcher (Mar 24, 2022)

GaryG said:


> To use your DSLR, get the book Digitizing Your Photos by Peter Krogh. It is an excellent resource that explains how to do it for slides, negatives, photos, and photo albums.


Here's a link to get the pdf version.  https://www.damuseful.com/products/digitizing-your-photographs-pdf


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## tspear (Mar 24, 2022)

This is a great thread for me. My wife asked me to look into this, she wants to take on this project later this year.
I believe I will start with the recommendation to buy her the book.


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## rozel (Mar 24, 2022)

Thanks @GaryG for the tip and thanks @Woodbutcher for the link - I struggled to find it as I think the book is out of production maybe.  Before I pay for some serious reading, I want to be sure that using my camera will produce better results for all the formats.  I'm tempted right now to buy an Epson V600 flatbed scanner - better value than the V850  - and I've found a bargain at about £250 new.  Same resolution as the V850 too and guess that any difference in post processing can be done using LRC rather than the software that comes with the scanner or VueScan. 

I've downloaded the TOC for the pdf and it does look very informative but I would like to know what further equipment I may need as well as my camera equipment mentioned in my second post above.  Then I will make a valued judgement on which route to take.

Thanks some more

Paul


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## rozel (Mar 24, 2022)

BTW is this the YouTube version of the pdf?    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yxmFjvFLPu4


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## sty2586 (Mar 25, 2022)

https://fotovideotec.de/dias_digitalisieren/

Here you find a description (unfortunatly German) how to duplicate slides by using an adapted slide projector and a camera.
I built it in this way and duplicated thousands of slides in very short time (some seconds per slide).
The adjusting of camera and projector, the 90 degree turning of portraitslides, the filling and change of the magazines takes time.
The after work in Lightroom (and PS) takes hours/days/....
Turning (portrait mode!), cropping,  and editing takes it's time.
The quality is quite good (full camera resolution) and you can word with autofocus if you use a tele lense

Greetings from Vienna
Franz


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## rozel (Mar 25, 2022)

Thanks @sty2586 - just read your web page.  

I think before I can move though, I really need to know what method will provide the best results: using a flatbed scanner or using my DSLR.  

Just one question that has come to mind since reading that article is that is it ok to shine the projector directly into the DSLR without using some form of box setup?  Surely the concentrated and very bright beams from the pj (given how close it is to the DSLR) would very soon kill the camera's sensors?


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## sty2586 (Mar 25, 2022)

You remove the optic lens and a distribution lens just behind the slide holder.
Instead of the distribution lens you put in a special milky glass (called cameo glass, white; I needed ca 50x50x3 mm, 3-4 Euro) which makes a white background for the slide and reduces the light to normal strenght, so no problem for the camera. You should also click the links just below the first foto, in the German text there you can find useful description how to adapt the projector.


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## rozel (Mar 25, 2022)

@sty2586  Ahh, right thank you once more - that makes it perfectly clear.

So now I need to know which is better - Flatbed Scanner (Epson V600) or Use my DSLR (Canon EOS 90D) ?


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## Paul_DS256 (Mar 25, 2022)

rozel said:


> So now I need to know which is better - Flatbed Scanner (Epson V600) or Use my DSLR (Canon EOS 90D) ?


There are a couple of things to consider in terms of 'better'

How big will you want to print your scanned photos? This will drive the pixel size requirements.
It looks like your Canon will take a 32.3 Megapixels (6960 x 4640) image. I don't have time at the moment, but you will need to calculate the DPI setting you need on your scanner to achieve the same.
You can shoot in RAW with the Canon and will likely have a broader gamut than the sRGB the scanner will use.
I think one consideration should be time. Yes, you may take more time in the setup for using the camera, but you will get through your pictures faster with camera than scanning I'd suspect.
Cost, what will be the setup cost of a camera vs scanner
Side note. The friend who leant me the Epson 750 warned me about people walking around the house and bouncing the scanner. He lived in an  older house and worked on the 2nd floor.
As I like to say, it's all relative.


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## rozel (Mar 25, 2022)

@Paul_DS256  Brilliant!  OK the Epson V600 has 48 bit colour depth and a resolution of 9600 x 6400 dpi so on the face of it the V600 seems comparable or better.  If I'm wrong then even if it approaches the quality of image my Canon produces, I'll be very happy.  I hear what you say though regarding shooting in RAW but I'm sure if needs be I'll be able to do some post-processing using the V600.

Ok all - I truly am appreciative of everyone's input here - I've decided to go with the V600.   I can save images in .tiff format and whilst perhaps not has useful alongside LRC, they'd be better than jpegs as they will be saved in a lossless format.

I'm not looking to print, just digitise to my PC.  I have already setup a media player to show them on my large scale tv and any we need to move around the family will be via whatsapp etc.  But more importantly I shall have a 60year plus record stored permanently with no futher fading or deterioration.  I'm retired so time isn't important.

Thanks again

Paul


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 25, 2022)

A few more things to consider:
- A digital camera uses a sensor with one color per pixel, a scanner uses a sensor array leading to three colors per pixel.
- A digital camera will record every speck of dust and every scratch, a scanner may have DigitalICE that automatically eliminates  these from the scans. So while a digital camera may be faster for the initial ‘scan’, there will be much more post processing.


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## dominique.gascon (Mar 25, 2022)

I read with interest the above discussion.  As I mentioned earlier, I am committed to a high-end flatbed scanner, and no matter what, I will not change now (i am 2/3 of the way through all my slides (about 6000) and all the negatives (about 1000) are done (both colour and B&W), but I am very pleased with the results.

The flatbed scanner may be in theory slower, but in practice when you have put 12 transparencies or 18 negatives frame on it, it will merrily scan away without any intervention on your part and you can use this time to take a coffee or more constructively to edit already scanned photos.

The post processing is really the chronophage phase, specially removing the surface imperfections (it depends a lot on how tedious you are about it)  and as mentioned by Johan Elzenga, without Digital Ice (which works remarkably well) you will spend hours in Photoshop cleaning your scans. It is amazing how much dust they accumulate, especially transparencies - I suspect it has to do with their repeated passages in the slide projectors. Even my negatives, which I tought were properly stored in dedicated glassine sleeves were far from being dust free.  Unfortunately, Digital Ice does not work with B&W film stock, and only erratically with Kodachrome. There is a discussion about it here: 
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/threads/35-mm-kodak-slide-film.43117/#post-1288469
and I took to scan my Kodachrome transparencies twice, with and without, reverting to the scan without if DI created to much noise. Even then, I quickly lagged behind the scanning in my processing.


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## rozel (Mar 26, 2022)

Thank you @dominique.gascon that was really helpful as was the thread you pointed to which was compulsive reading and more than convinces me to go for the flatbed option.

In that thread are a couple of posts by @Paul_DS256 one of which was (is) his workflow and it's so good, that I hope he doesn't mind me posting it on here (see attached).  It answers tons of stuff for me and hopefully others too.  Whist you both are using top Epson flatbeds (V850 & V700 respectively)  my funds don't stretch to the V850 (the top model still in production) so I'm collecting a V600 later today.  The main difference as I see is that the V700/V750/V800/V850 has a larger scan area and can scan up 12 35mm slides at once whereas the V600 will only accomodate 4, leading of course to an even slower process.

The V600 has it seems 3.4 DMax optical density - the others have 4.0 DMax optical density.  So my *First question* is, what does this mean what is it and does it make any difference.

They both adopt Digital ICE, which I understand slows down the process on all scanners if adopted.  *Second question* is what exactly is Digital ICE and how does it work?

I have VueScan x64 installed (version 9.5.70) - I believe there's a newer 9.7.xx version available.  *Third Question* is do I need this software and/or is it better or worse than what is bundled with the scanner and if so do I need to update?  I believe Epson Photo Scan software will be offered so am unsure whether to just go with this.

*Last question* - do I scan in Tiff or Jpeg - which works better with LRC

I also would be interested to learn from others who use the V600 with any helpful tips etc.

Paul


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 26, 2022)

rozel said:


> The V600 has it seems 3.4 DMax optical density - the others have 4.0 DMax optical density. So my *First question* is, what does this mean what is it and does it make any difference.


DMax is like the dynamic range of a digital camera. If you scan slides, then 4.0 DMax is what you want. Some scanners can increase this by combining two scans at different exposure, a bit like HDR.



rozel said:


> They both adopt Digital ICE, which I understand slows down the process on all scanners if adopted. *Second question* is what exactly is Digital ICE and how does it work?


DigitalICE makes an extra scan, with infrared light. That scan will clearly show dust and scratches, and is subtracted from the normal scan to eliminate those automatically.


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 26, 2022)

rozel said:


> I have VueScan x64 installed (version 9.5.70) - I believe there's a newer 9.7.xx version available. *Third Question* is do I need this software and/or is it better or worse than what is bundled with the scanner and if so do I need to update? I believe Epson Photo Scan software will be offered so am unsure whether to just go with this.


VueScan is good, but if your scanner comes with Silverfast then that is better. Silverfast can use DigitalICE with Kodachrome slides. AFAIK, that is unique for this software.



rozel said:


> *Last question* - do I scan in Tiff or Jpeg - which works better with LRC


Lightroom can handle both just fine, but jpeg is lossy compressed and 8 bits/color only, while tiff can be 16 bits/color.  TIFF files are much bigger, however.


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## GaryG (Mar 26, 2022)

rozel said:


> I have VueScan x64 installed (version 9.5.70) - I believe there's a newer 9.7.xx version available. *Third Question* is do I need this software and/or is it better or worse than what is bundled with the scanner and if so do I need to update? I believe Epson Photo Scan software will be offered so am unsure whether to just go with this.


I would get the latest version of VueScan and compare it to Epson Scan and/or Silverfast.  For scanned photos, I found Epson Scan and VueScan to be equal for B&W photos and Epson Scan a little better for color photos.  Of course, the results could depend on the scanner and its condition.  I used the trial version of VueScan, which adds a watermark that may have effected the scanned image too.

My Epson V500 can only scan 4 slides at a time like the V600.  My only experience with slides was scanning about 24 slides for a friend. I thought it was pretty slow scanning only 4 at a time.  If it gets boring to you, you might want to look at this video that uses the Nikon ES-2 Slide Copier adapter.  I have seen the adapter used with Canon and Sony cameras too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNK24oQICUc


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## dominique.gascon (Mar 26, 2022)

If I understand correctly, Digital Ice works by scanning the negatives or transparencies, twice,  First in normal RGB light which detects both surface imperfections and the image and then in infrared which detects only the surface imperfections, the pigments being transparent to IR. It can then replace the corrupt pixels by using algorithm analogous to the Photoshop / Lightroom spot removal tools. It does not work on BW negatives because the silver halide crystals in the film block the infrared, being mistaken for surface imperfections (the scans are unusable). I am not sure why it did not work originally on Kodachrome (probably something similar to the B&W), but the newer versions do (including the one in the Epson scan software). The only thing to be aware is that it does not like sharp contrasts on Kodachrome, often leaving a shadow line at these edges. Flash photos with very marked shadows or sky through a tree canopy can quickly become quite messy, but for photos with softer contrast, it works very well. That is why I scan the Kodachrome transparencies twice. You still need to check your scans afterwards (I use Photoshop) to remove the remaining glitches, but this step is considerably shortened.


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## rozel (Mar 27, 2022)

Compulsive reading guys - thank you all.  I've now got my new Epson Perfection V600 and sorting the logistics of how to place it.   Just a few observations and more questions please  : -



Johan Elzenga said:


> VueScan is good, but if your scanner comes with Silverfast then that is better. Silverfast can use DigitalICE with Kodachrome slides. AFAIK, that is unique for this software.


I have, just a few moments ago, had a look at the CD that came with it.  No sign of Silverfast or anything called Epson Scan - just software called PhotoScan - anyone know what this is and/or is it the same as one of these?  Ohh just before posting, I see that when I bought my Epson ET-4750 printer, I got Epson Scan 2, its Utility and something called Epson ScanSmart - again will these be useful?



GaryG said:


> I would get the latest version of VueScan and compare it to Epson Scan and/or Silverfast. For scanned photos, I found Epson Scan and VueScan to be equal for B&W photos and Epson Scan a little better for color photos.


Yes I have VueScan, and have been using with my old Perfection 1650 scanner for document scanning - I'm just not sure which software to use



dominique.gascon said:


> If I understand correctly, Digital Ice works by scanning the negatives or transparencies, twice, First in normal RGB light which detects both surface imperfections and the image and then in infrared which detects only the surface imperfections, the pigments being transparent to IR.


DigitalICE intrigues me and I'm wondering if it's use can improve my scans to compensate for it only having 3.4 DMax?  Will it work whatever the software I go for?

In the meantime I came across this yesterday from a review site: -
VueScan is the best all-rounder, but Epson Scan does surprisingly well​Conclusion: -
Overall, the winner in this roundup has to be Hamrick Software's VueScan. Although it isn't the best at everything it does, it turns in a solid performance in basically every category, and includes a several features Epson Scan lacks. It also has by far the cleanest, most responsive user interface of the bunch, and the best documentation.

With that said, I thought Epson Scan did surprisingly well also. Sure, its interface is dated and clunky, its cropping overenthusiastic and it lacks some features like multi-exposure, multi-sampling and Raw output. But it turns out pretty decent image quality most of the time, with especially good dust reduction performance. And if you're an Epson Perfection owner, you've already got a copy free with your scanner purchase.

As for SilverFast, it too is capable of very good image quality, and with a good bit more control and features than Epson Scan offers. But its overly complex user interface and weak documentation coupled with performance that trails its rivals and algorithms that more often need manual intervention conspire to hold it back from what it could be.

Comparison of Pros and Cons: -
Epson Scan​

* Pros**Cons*
Ships free with the scanner
The fastest by a hair
The best default image quality
Good results from fade, color and hardware dust correction

Dated user interface
Fewer controls than third-party rivals
Inaccurate cropping and can't batch scan if manually cropped
Occasionally buggy
Software dust correction is of little use


SilverFast SE Plus​

* Pros**Cons*
Broad scanner support
Fair image quality by default
More control than Epson Scan
Tailors results based on film type (but fewer types than VueScan)
Multi-exposure scanning
DNG and TIFF raw support

The slowest of the bunch
Images tended to be too warm
More manual intervention needed than rivals
Sharpening defaults too high
Prone to some artifacts from over-sharpening
Hardware dust correction doesn't blend as well as rivals
Software dust correction is of little use
Multi-exposure scanning doesn't offer much advantage for most shots


VueScan Professional Edition​

* Pros**Cons*
Broad scanner support
Good image quality by default
Lightweight and responsive user interface
More control than Epson Scan
Tailor results based on film type (and more types than SilverFast)
Multi-exposure scanning
Multi-sampled scanning
DNG and TIFF raw support

Not quite as fast as Epson Scan
Images tended a little too cool and a little low-contrast
Multi-exposure and multi-sampled scanning don't offer much advantage for most shots


What y'all think?

Paul


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## rozel (Mar 23, 2022)

Hi all

First of all I must thank the people who have helped me with LRC in setting up my workflow.  I am using LRC now to sort and edit my huge digital photo collection covering the last 22/23 years.  I have the recommended 1-2-3 backup strategy in place and am at the point where I am switching my Cloud based storage from Dropbox to Google Drive / Photos.  I use Syncbackpro v10 for the backing up to the cloud and to a further internal drive on my PC.   I have also in the last few weeks managed to to integrate Teamviewer to work alongside LRC, whilst I am away so I can basically export my on the road stuff to a "Not Sorted" folder on my PC - I'm using LR Android whilst away and editing using LRC when I get back home.  Currently I'm using a Canon Eos 90.  I  don't want to use Adobe Cloud, before someone chips in  - and I positively hate "syncing" between folders etc - backup yes but not syncing as you can easily lose stuff.  My primary aim whilst away is to export to my photos to my PC's "Not Sorted" folder to work on later and transfer to my catalogue(s).  I hate amassing photos on a lot of devices as it takes time to sort duplicates out etc.  I also transfer the photos to another external drive based in one of my Media Players, to view my completed work on a large screen TV.   So I've been very busy working things out for the 2 years since last posting - but I definately would not have benefitted by using LRC if I hadn't come here - so a massive thank you.

OK to my question (lol) - So having backed up and edited my digital photos taken during the past 22/23 years, my attention is now turning to sorting my huge collection of Paper Photos & negatives for the 20 year period previous and then all my other family photos dating back to when I was born (1953) and well before that too. 

I have tested out my Flatbed Scanner - an Epson Perfection 1650 and whilst it produces decent results, this scanner is really quite old.  I am using Windows 10 and have paired the scanner to the VueScan software but I am sure there are better Slide and paper Photo scanners (along with associated negatives) out there that would do the job better (in higher quality) and much faster too.

So please can anyone give me some pointers as to what to go for?

Thank you

Paul


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 27, 2022)

rozel said:


> DigitalICE intrigues me and I'm wondering if it's use can improve my scans to compensate for it only having 3.4 DMax?


No, DigitalICE has nothing to do with the DMax of the scanner and does not change it in any way.  Multi-exposure can do that, however.


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## Paul_DS256 (Mar 27, 2022)

rozel said:


> What y'all think?


If you can download trials, I would suggest:

Figure out from your research what you're workflow will be. What will be done in the Scanning software and what you will do in LrC.
Select a number slides/negatives and trial/compare the results.


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## rozel (Mar 27, 2022)

Thanks both, most helpful.  Ok so I started with Epson Photo Scan - I believe it's the same as Epson Scan - see 1st attachment. First attempt at scanning 4 x negatives in a strip resulted in failure - the software bombed - guessing I was far too ambitious with settings.  It was going to take 21 mins just to scan 1 neg.  So turned things down a bit - see second attachment.  In the first attempt DPI was set to 9600 dpi.  Anyhow reason for posting is how do I save the scans down?  I cannot see anywhere where the settings are for "Save Destination".  In the attachments you'll see "Destination" doesn't have any settings associated with it?

Help!


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## rozel (Mar 27, 2022)

Please ignore above post - seems when you exit the scanning window, the one with Normal & Thumbnail preview options, another window pops up making save down options a doddle.  As I mentioned my first attempt bombed and the pop up didn't come up as the prog had crashed.

But much learning going on now


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## Replytoken (Mar 27, 2022)

Paul_DS256 said:


> If you can download trials, I would suggest:
> 
> Figure out from your research what you're workflow will be. What will be done in the Scanning software and what you will do in LrC.
> Select a number slides/negatives and trial/compare the results.


Can't agree more, especially since I am a big believer in GIGO.  Let the tools do what they do best, but try and do as much up front as makes sense.  When I started a scanning project in 2020, which has been put on hold for the time being, I played around quite a bit to get a good workflow.  Two things that you may or may not have thought of are color space and bit depth.  I chose to scan in 16-bit depth, and I believe that the Epson software did not support that depth, but Vuescan did.  

--Ken


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## rozel (Mar 27, 2022)

Great advice and yes I'm experimenting at the moment.  A few questions that have arisen: - 

1.  Why scan in 16-bit and not 48-bit?
2.  How to achieve Multi-Exposure and which software supports it? 
3.  I've read Paul's Work flow and 2 things I'd like to learn, so wonder if you could point me to suitable tutorials: - 
       a.  how do I automate save down to reflect naming conventions or do I have to name manually? 
       b.  I've heard about EXIFTOOL re Metadata -  again any chance there are tutorials out there? 
4.  How can I learn about all fim sizes? 

Really chuffed you are staying with me


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## Paul_DS256 (Mar 27, 2022)

rozel said:


> I cannot see anywhere where the settings are for "Save Destination". In the attachments you'll see "Destination" doesn't have any settings associated with it?


It looks like you are using Epson Scan which is what I use.

What I noticed you are missing is  the File Save Settings icon.





Click on Configuration and make sure File Savings is checked





The you should be able click on File Saving to set up sequential saving.


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## Paul_DS256 (Mar 27, 2022)

rozel said:


> 1. Why scan in 16-bit and not 48-bit?


I think you mean 24 vs 48 and it comes down to the amount of information you are recording to help in post work.


rozel said:


> 2. How to achieve Multi-Exposure and which software supports it?


Not sure what you are trying to do


rozel said:


> 3. I've read Paul's Work flow and 2 things I'd like to learn, so wonder if you could point me to suitable tutorials: -
> a. how do I automate save down to reflect naming conventions or do I have to name manually?


You can set a prefix in the Epson File Save with an incremental number for each scan. I used the prefix to identify the 'batch' and if it's slide, negative or print.


rozel said:


> b. I've heard about EXIFTOOL re Metadata - again any chance there are tutorials out there?


It is useful if you are comfortable with command line work and batch files/scripting.  I use EXIFTOOL to set a number of values. I think you could also do that in LrC Metadata but I started using EXIFTOOL before LrC. If you are interested, and use Windows, I can share examples of my script.


rozel said:


> 4. How can I learn about all fim sizes?


If you are talking about holders for the film, Epson will list the sizes of film it supports. If you find a need for other sizes, Google and you will likely find someone who has McQuivered one. Keep in mind that the holder holds file slightly off  the surface of the glass. You need to replicate this in a jig to keep focus.

Here's a couple of links for identifying films:

https://digitalcopycat.com/slide_negative_identification.html
http://www.pearsonimaging.com/articles/about/filmformats.html
https://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc25.htm This one is useful when you only have the stock number on the film.
Here's a printing/scanning DPI calculator that may be useful.


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## rozel (Mar 27, 2022)

Thanks @Paul_DS256  a lot of good info.


Johan Elzenga said:


> No, DigitalICE has nothing to do with the DMax of the scanner and does not change it in any way. Multi-exposure can do that, however.


This was what I was referring to given the DMax is 3.4 for the V600, I thought doing this could compensate no?

16-bit was mentioned earlier but Ahh I understand about scanning in the different bit-rates now, I think, I assume the higher the rate the more potential to use LRC no?


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## GaryG (Mar 27, 2022)

I agree with what the review had to say about Epson Scan and VueScan. Epson Scan will crash and there have been a few times that I've had to reinstall it in order to get it to start.  VueScan does have frequent updates, and the last update for my version of Epson Scan was in 2020.

I noticed that you had selected Unsharp Mask in Epson Scan.  From the articles, I've read you don't want to use it if you plan to edit the scanned images because it can make changes that cannot be undone by editing.

Multi-Exposure is a VueScan feature for transparencies only.  It does two scan passes and each pass uses a different exposure.  If Epson Scan has the feature, it isn't with my version.


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 27, 2022)

rozel said:


> 1. Why scan in 16-bit and not 48-bit?


That’s the same. 16 bits/color is 48 bits per pixel.


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## Replytoken (Mar 27, 2022)

Johan Elzenga said:


> That’s the same. 16 bits/color is 48 bits per pixel.


Johan elaborated before I could, but yes, 16-bits/color is also known as 48-bit.  As I also mentioned, I have a cheaper flatbed scanner with Epson Scan software and it did not allow me to scan 48-bit tiff files.  I am assuming they have different versions of their software with their models, so that may not be an issue.  But if it is, you will be working in 8-bit/channel (24-bit) from the beginning.  This may or may not be an issue to you, but it is generally best to work with more information, and it is not recommended trying to re-save an 8-bit file to 16-bits, as this can cause other issues.

One more item as I look at Paul's screenshots above, you should check your file sizes and scan times as part of your decision making process.  It is quite easy to settle on some really high resolution number in theory, only to learn that each scan will take 20-30 minutes and occupy a gigabyte of space on your hard drive.

Good luck,

--Ken


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## Conrad Chavez (Mar 28, 2022)

Johan Elzenga said:


> That’s the same. 16 bits/color is 48 bits per pixel.


Specifically, Rozel:
The actual term is 16 bits per channel.
An RGB color image has three channels.
16 bits/channel times 3 channels = 48 bits to store all three channels in the image.

Being precise about the terminology is important, because 16 bits per channel results in different total bits per image depending on what color mode you used to save the image:
16 bits/channel for grayscale/monochrome (1 channel) = *16* bits total.
16 bits/channel for RGB color (3 channels) = *48* bits total.
16 bits/channel for CMYK color (4 channels) = *64* bits total.

Another reason to be precise about channels vs total is that if you hear the term “32-bit images” today,  they are not lower quality than “48-bit” scans for the reasons above. 32 bits per channel images can potentially contain enough dynamic range for what are called High Dynamic Range (HDR) images, and if you wanted to compare those to “48-bit” (total) images you would similarly have to multiply 32 bits times the number of channels, so for an RGB image, 32 bits * 3 channels = *96* bits total, compared to a *48*-bit total (16 bits per channel * 3) image.



rozel said:


> Johan Elzenga said:
> 
> 
> > No, DigitalICE has nothing to do with the DMax of the scanner and does not change it in any way.  Multi-exposure can do that, however.
> ...


No. The reason it cannot is DigitalICE is very powerful at fixing one thing: Surface defects on film, such as dust and scratches. Some versions of DigitalICE also fix other kinds of defects like color fading, but all of them are completely unrelated to DMax. So DigitalCE cannot improve DMax.



rozel said:


> 16-bit was mentioned earlier but Ahh I understand about scanning in the different bit-rates now, I think, I assume the higher the rate the more potential to use LRC no?


It isn’t really a “bit rate” (the term “rate”  is used in time-based media such as digital audio and video), and yes, more bits per channel can potentially provide more editing flexibility in Lightroom. But only if the scanner and the original media are good enough to fill it!

For example, prints have much lower dynamic range than film, and different film types have different dynamic ranges. If a print doesn’t have much dynamic range in it, like a 1980s snapshot print with clipped highlights and shadows, printed on an automated one-hour photo processor that was run by grocery store employees, you might not gain anything by scanning at more bits. Scanning at 16 bits per pixel helps the most when scanning good film stocks exposed well by an advanced or professional photographer,  and stored properly. Or maybe when scanning a high-quality print made carefully in a darkroom, or by a professional photo lab on top grade paper.

I have hundreds of family photos shot on cheap consumer films, exposed badly by primitive exposure systems in old point-and-shoot cameras. Or, they are so faded or color-shifted that they have lost a lot of quality/dynamic range already. For originals of that low quality, scanning at 16 bits per channel won’t get you visibly better dynamic range than 8 bits per channel. You can have a scanner with a high DMax rating, but you will probably only see the difference on your originals that actually have significant dynamic range in them.


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## rozel (Mar 28, 2022)

Thank you and thank you again - tons of very useful stuff and I shall be ever grateful - what a good forum this is   Just a couple more questions please, if I may (in bold).




Paul_DS256 said:


> Figure out from your research what you're workflow will be. What will be done in the Scanning software and what you will do in LrC.
> Select a number slides/negatives and trial/compare the results.


This is exactly what I'm doing - going to spend a couple of weeks for this.  Yesterday I did my first scans - extremely hit and excessive miss!  I used Epson Scan (/ Epson Photo Scan - still not sure the difference here) and Epson Scan 2 and didn't research any of my settings - just acted on instinct, hence my first attempt resulted in a crash as mentioned earlier.



Paul_DS256 said:


> What I noticed you are missing is the File Save Settings icon.


*So do I take it that the "Save Destination" pops up automatically when the "Save Settings" box is ticked?  And what does "Work Area" mean - is this the "Save Folder" on my PC?*



Paul_DS256 said:


> Here's a couple of links for identifying films:
> 
> https://digitalcopycat.com/slide_negative_identification.html
> http://www.pearsonimaging.com/articles/about/filmformats.html
> ...


Seriously very helpful Paul - I shall read those articles very carefully later today.



GaryG said:


> I noticed that you had selected Unsharp Mask in Epson Scan. From the articles, I've read you don't want to use it if you plan to edit the scanned images because it can make changes that cannot be undone by editing.
> 
> Multi-Exposure is a VueScan feature for transparencies only. It does two scan passes and each pass uses a different exposure. If Epson Scan has the feature, it isn't with my version.


Thanks Gary - I didn't know what this was so left it selected by default, I think.  But good tip!  Ahha! Multi-Exposure is supported in VueScan, that's excellent.  Cannot see this in Epson Scan and I'm using the latest version, I think.



Replytoken said:


> Can't agree more, especially since I am a big believer in GIGO


Wow! I didn't know what that meant until I googled lol!  But I absolutely agree!  A lot of garbage coming out right now haha!



Conrad Chavez said:


> The actual term is 16 bits per channel.
> An RGB color image has three channels.
> 16 bits/channel times 3 channels = 48 bits to store all three channels in the image.
> 
> ...


Ok - this has turned into (for me) a very confusing matter.  *In Epson Scan, selecting File Type, I chose 48-bit Colour.  Is this correct for best quality?  Or does it depend on what I'm scanning?*  That was good inf @Conrad Chavez - but *to simplify I just need to know what setting I ought to choose in Epson Scan and VueScan.*

Today I'm going to have a similar start with VueScan - leaving the same film negatives in the holder as they were yesterday.  This way I'll be able to make a good comparison to yesterdays results.


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## rozel (Mar 28, 2022)

Update: -  Further to the above regarding multiple exposure - yes Vuescan supports but the V600 seems not to.  Apparently Silverfast supports this with the V600 but I don't see how as the scanners needs variable CCD exposure time and I don't think this is supported by my scanner


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## GaryG (Mar 28, 2022)

If you decide to use VueScan, I suggest getting the book “The VueScan Bible” by Sasha Steinhoff. It describes all of the VueScan options, and the author says when to use LR or Photoshop instead of an option. 

Regarding Multi-Exposure with VueScan,  Mr. Steinhoff states that it might not help much with a good scanner because they have good dynamic range, and it can help a cheap scanner with low dynamic range. He also mentions a possible side effect of Multi-Exposure is a blurred image because the scanner isn’t positioning itself correctly. Based on what he has said, Multi-Exposure is a software feature and not a scanner feature.


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## GaryG (Mar 28, 2022)

I forgot to answer your Work Area question.  According to the Help for the Configuration display, it displays the folder for saving the temporary files for some image operations and the free space for the drive for that folder.  I have mine set to the C drive with no folder specified.


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## rozel (Mar 28, 2022)

Cheers @GaryG -just ordered the VueScan Bible via eBay.  Reason:  I've played around a bit with VueScan today and found it better and intuitively more friendly than the Epson software.  I've also tried to play with the demo version of Silverfast but no - not user friendly however I try.

So VueScan is and will be my scanning software of choice - I'm used to it a little already through using it for document scanning with my Perfection 1650.  That said I could not find the option for Multiple Exposure.  I know where it ought to be, having googled, but using by and large the default settings, this option doesn't appear and I think this is because the option is linked to the scanner - if the scanner doesn't support it, then VueScan doesn't reveal the option.  That is unless someone can tell me otherwise.  I am always suspicious and think the blurred image thing is an excuse by the owner of the software, who I've read can be a bit off-hand at times.  But who knows, there could be a setting, which when enabled, may bring up the Multiple Exposure option?

That said, given the age of my photos, slides and negatives, I'm not sure  if Multiple Exposure would be of any benefit anyway.  But VueScan here we go - and I like the way you can automatically pretext file names for batch scanning too


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## rozel (Mar 28, 2022)

Ahhh - just found this by googling: -

Input | Multi exposure​This option provides a way to get additional detail from the darker parts of the scanned image.  It is available on scanners that are able to increase the CCD exposure time.

A first pass is performed as usual with the normal RGB exposure.   This will be an appropriate exposure for the image as a whole.  Then a second pass is performed with a longer exposure, which can reveal additional detail in dark areas not captured in the first pass.  VueScan then merges the results of the two by choosing from either the first or second exposure pass.

*Professional Option:* This option is displayed when the scanner can control the CCD exposure time and when scanning slide film (not Color negative, B/W negative or Microfilm).

I've been scanning Colour Negatives so perhaps when I experiment with my Slides / Slide Films, this option will throw up - I cannot try now until tomorrow - what do you think?


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## rozel (Mar 28, 2022)

Update:  I couldn't wait so just checked and voila! The option is there when you select Slide Film - happy bunny!


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## Conrad Chavez (Mar 28, 2022)

rozel said:


> Ok - this has turned into (for me) a very confusing matter.  *In Epson Scan, selecting File Type, I chose 48-bit Colour.  Is this correct for best quality?  Or does it depend on what I'm scanning?*  That was good inf @Conrad Chavez - but *to simplify I just need to know what setting I ought to choose in Epson Scan and VueScan.*


There’s more than one way to go about this, depending on how you want to work.

If you want to try to keep file sizes down and save storage space up front, you can choose the bit depth based on the quality of the original. Maybe for basic snapshot prints you choose 8 bits per channel, and when scanning good film you choose 16 bits per channel. Or, you can set it for 8 bpc all the time except for extremely valuable photos, where you set it to 16 bpc.

If you have lots of storage, you can scan everything at 16 bpc so you don’t have to think about when to change it. Later, if you want to save space, you can run the less important images through Adobe Bridge or Photoshop to batch-convert them down to 8 bpc. (If you do this and want to make sure Lightroom Classic doesn't lose the links, make sure the 8 bpc replacements end up with the same filenames in the same folders.)


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## Paul_DS256 (Mar 28, 2022)

rozel said:


> So do I take it that the "Save Destination" pops up automatically when the "Save Settings" box is ticked? And what does "Work Area" mean - is this the "Save Folder" on my PC?


If you follow my instructions you should see the File Save icon. Within that panel you can decide if you want it to pop open for each scan. No idea what 'Work Area' is in relation to Epson Scan.


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## GaryG (Mar 28, 2022)

@Paul_DS256 I answered the Work Area question in post #42.


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## rozel (Mar 29, 2022)

Paul_DS256 said:


> No idea what 'Work Area' is in relation to Epson Scan.





GaryG said:


> I answered the Work Area question in post #42.


Hi guys - Thanks for the clarification but it doesn't matter now as I'm going to work with VueScan



rozel said:


> Update: I couldn't wait so just checked and voila! The option is there when you select Slide Film - happy bunny!


Ok Wide awake now and after a coffee, I took another look at this.  I previously noted Vuescan supports Multi Exposure but the V600 seemed not to as I think it needs variable CCD exposure time and I don't think this is supported.   I was wrong in part, I think.

It is available on scanners that are able to increase the CCD exposure time.   A first pass is performed as usual with the normal RGB exposure. This will be an appropriate exposure for the image as a whole. Then a second pass is performed with a longer exposure, which can reveal additional detail in dark areas not captured in the first pass.  VueScan then merges the results of the two by choosing from either the first or second exposure pass.  However there's a "Professional Option" - it is displayed when the scanner can control the CCD exposure time and when scanning slide film (not Color negative, B/W negative or Microfilm) and which will give some manual exposure times.   As my scanner doesn't support the control of the CCD exposure time, then I won't get this additional option - and I don't.  

Problem solved then apart from one thing.  How will multi exposure work with no control? - does the software work the 2 exposure times out itself automatically?  - I assume it will?  See attached - ignore most of the settings as I am only attaching to show the Multi Exposure Option and the lack of the Professional Option.  

The reason I seem to be harping on a lot about this is because I have tons of negatives and so I think it will be important.  Later today I shall dig out a bunch of slides and play about with them too.


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## rozel (Mar 29, 2022)

rozel said:


> The reason I seem to be harping on a lot about this is because I have tons of negatives and so I think it will be important. Later today I shall dig out a bunch of slides and play about with them too.


Meant to say I have tons of Slides


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## rozel (Mar 23, 2022)

Hi all

First of all I must thank the people who have helped me with LRC in setting up my workflow.  I am using LRC now to sort and edit my huge digital photo collection covering the last 22/23 years.  I have the recommended 1-2-3 backup strategy in place and am at the point where I am switching my Cloud based storage from Dropbox to Google Drive / Photos.  I use Syncbackpro v10 for the backing up to the cloud and to a further internal drive on my PC.   I have also in the last few weeks managed to to integrate Teamviewer to work alongside LRC, whilst I am away so I can basically export my on the road stuff to a "Not Sorted" folder on my PC - I'm using LR Android whilst away and editing using LRC when I get back home.  Currently I'm using a Canon Eos 90.  I  don't want to use Adobe Cloud, before someone chips in  - and I positively hate "syncing" between folders etc - backup yes but not syncing as you can easily lose stuff.  My primary aim whilst away is to export to my photos to my PC's "Not Sorted" folder to work on later and transfer to my catalogue(s).  I hate amassing photos on a lot of devices as it takes time to sort duplicates out etc.  I also transfer the photos to another external drive based in one of my Media Players, to view my completed work on a large screen TV.   So I've been very busy working things out for the 2 years since last posting - but I definately would not have benefitted by using LRC if I hadn't come here - so a massive thank you.

OK to my question (lol) - So having backed up and edited my digital photos taken during the past 22/23 years, my attention is now turning to sorting my huge collection of Paper Photos & negatives for the 20 year period previous and then all my other family photos dating back to when I was born (1953) and well before that too. 

I have tested out my Flatbed Scanner - an Epson Perfection 1650 and whilst it produces decent results, this scanner is really quite old.  I am using Windows 10 and have paired the scanner to the VueScan software but I am sure there are better Slide and paper Photo scanners (along with associated negatives) out there that would do the job better (in higher quality) and much faster too.

So please can anyone give me some pointers as to what to go for?

Thank you

Paul


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## rozel (Mar 30, 2022)

I think I am nearly ready  to rock and roll now after extensive reading but I do have a few final questions please before I bow out: -

1.  I still have this question regarding Multi Exposure using my V600 with Vuescan.  Vuescan says: "It is available on scanners that are able to increase the CCD exposure time."  It shows as previously mentioned but......  there is a Professional Option: "This option is displayed when the scanner can control the CCD exposure time and when scanning slide film (not Color negative, B/W negative or Microfilm).  This option does not show for me.  This then makes me think my V600 can increase the exposure but it cannot be controlled internally.  Ok so in the first instance does the software work the two exposure times out itself automatically?  How exactly does this work in my case please?

2.  DigitalIce - Again this does not show on Vuescan as I don't believe it is supported.  It's available using Epson Scan.  There is however an Infra Red Clean option - anyone used this and if so does it work well?

3.  Going through the various other VueScan Filter Options I'm bound to ask are these useful or not?  Particularly Faded Film / Sharpen / Grain restoration etc etc.  It's been said already that LRC would be best used - but for all of them?

4.  I am scanning all my stuff primarily for archiving purposes and not for printing.  Most of the photo negatives that I have, have never been handled and are still in the photo packets with the printed photos.  I don't think I have the Slide negatives with my Slides though and they will take a bit of careful cleaning for the keepers.  All this said, I want to view the finished scans via my media player (I have two - an Egreat A11 and a Zidoo Z100 Pro) through my 75" Samsung 8k TV.  Obviously therefore I'm looking to scan at the optimum resolution for my purpose.  Having read @Paul_DS256 's Workflow and some other stuff online, I can work out what to do for various sizes of "print" given the size of negative/slide.  But I'm not "printing", I want to view the saved final scans on my TV.  So what size should I work on to calculate the scan resolution?  Most if not all of my stuff is either 35mm Negatives or 35mm Slides.

5.  Last but not least will it be worth while Profiling my Scanner?

I hope you can help me further, after which I'll read through the VuseScan Bible which should arrive today or tomorrow and get cracking!  Thanks once more

Paul


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## Paul_DS256 (Mar 30, 2022)

rozel said:


> 2. DigitalIce - Again this does not show on Vuescan as I don't believe it is supported. It's available using Epson Scan. There is however an Infra Red Clean option - anyone used this and if so does it work well?


You would have to do some more digging but it's likely Vuescan is invoking ICE which is infrared based.


rozel said:


> Obviously therefore I'm looking to scan at the optimum resolution for my purpose.


If you want to future proof your work, you may want to consider how they might be  used in the future e.g. post 8K TV.  Regardless, you are making a choice based on the DPI of your scans.


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## GaryG (Mar 30, 2022)

1. On the Input tab at the top there is a field named Options, and for my V500 I'm able to set it to Professional when Mode is Transparency, Media is Slide Film and Multi-Exposure is checked.  Is this the Professional Option you are asking about?  If so, you should go to the VueScan website and use the Contact Us link to ask about your scanner.

2. I believe they may be using their own version of Digital ICE. I haven't tried it.

3. For photos I've had good and so-so results with the Restore Fading option. I don't use Sharpen based on recommendations from scanning sites/books. I 
think the VueScan Bible will be the best source for this question.

4. The only time I've seen anything related to this question is when someone is exporting an image from LR to view on a TV or saving in Photoshop.  Your TV and monitor screens are in pixels and scanner resolution is in dpi, dots per inch, not pixels.  Two different things. This may be a question for Mr. Hamrick at VueScan.

5. SilverFast sells IT8 targets, and they range from $60 to $100.  With the quality of 60-70% of the photos I've scanned that were probably taken with a Kodak Brownie Hawkeye or something before that it isn't worth it.  You may have better quality slides and negatives.


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## Conrad Chavez (Mar 30, 2022)

rozel said:


> 1.  I still have this question regarding Multi Exposure using my V600 with Vuescan.  Vuescan says: "It is available on scanners that are able to increase the CCD exposure time."  It shows as previously mentioned but......  there is a Professional Option: "This option is displayed when the scanner can control the CCD exposure time and when scanning slide film (not Color negative, B/W negative or Microfilm).  This option does not show for me.


I’m not 100% sure about this, but Multi Exposure may be more likely to appear on a dedicated film scanner.



rozel said:


> 2.  DigitalIce - Again this does not show on Vuescan as I don't believe it is supported.  It's available using Epson Scan.  There is however an Infra Red Clean option - anyone used this and if so does it work well?


Yes, Infrared Clean in VueScan  is the same kind of feature as in the DigitalICE brand, but it is probably different code. Like Digital ICE, Infrared Cleaning does an extra scan pass using infrared light to mark surface defects, then, as discussed earlier, the software uses the infrared layer to subtract the defects from the image. The results might not be exactly the same as DigitalICE, but it does work, I use Infrared Cleaning all the time.

VueScan provides some power user options for this. If you set VueScan to output its raw format (which is NOT the same as a camera raw format, It just means a scan without software post-processing), it can save the infrared scan as a separate channel, instead of baking the defect removal into  the RGB channels. This means you can run that file back through VueScan and try different amounts of defect reduction without having to scan the original again, or manually subtract the infrared channel in Photoshop using your own techniques. Sort of a nondestructive defect removal. But if you review the file size discussion earlier in the thread, the extra channel increases the file size, because the file has four channels, RGB+I (infrared) channels for 4x whatever your bits per channel was set to.



rozel said:


> 3.  Going through the various other VueScan Filter Options I'm bound to ask are these useful or not?  Particularly Faded Film / Sharpen / Grain restoration etc etc.  It's been said already that LRC would be best used - but for all of them?


The fade reduction options can sometimes be useful, but you should read the VueScan online manual to understand how they are different. Most of the time, I don’t use them and deal with fading them myself using the many color adjustments in Lightroom Classic, or by using Channel Mixer in Photoshop to rebalance the proportions of RGB. You can try them and see if you think you could do a better job on your own.

Best practice is to not use the sharpening feature in any scanning software, unless the scanning software is being used for final output (that is, you aren’t going to edit later in other software). Leave sharpening off and do it later in Lightroom or Photoshop, where you have much more control over sharpening.



rozel said:


> …I'm looking to scan at the optimum resolution for my purpose…But I'm not "printing", I want to view the saved final scans on my TV.  So what size should I work on to calculate the scan resolution?  Most if not all of my stuff is either 35mm Negatives or 35mm Slides.


The V600 can scan at up to 6400 dpi. A 35mm film frame is about 1.42 inches wide by 0.9 inches tall. A 4K TV is 3840 × 2160 pixels, so if you want to fill that screen, you set a scanning dpi that results in the long side filling the 3840 px width of the TV. If I’m doing the math right, setting the scanner to 2704 dpi will get you there. Based on needing to scan 3840 pixels across the width of a 1.42 inch film frame, 3840 px divided by 1.42 in = 2704 pixels (scanner dots)/inch. That’s for wide images; you have to decide what to do with tall images, maybe fit the tall side to the 2160 px TV height.

That assumes no one in the family will want to fill future, higher resolution formats like an 8K TV. If you worry about that, just buy more hard drives and scan everything at the maximum optical resolution. Then make smaller copies for TV viewing, social media, prints… The math says a 6400 dpi scanner could scan a 35mm frame to a roughly 9088 × 5760 px file; that would be more than an 8K TV (7680 × 4320 px) and could produce a 300 ppi print at 30.3 × 19.2 inches. If that’s too much, run your own math to figure out the scanning ppi based on the biggest reasonable pixel dimensions you think the family will ever need for TV and print.

By the way, resolution is like bit depth: If a lot of the photos are not perfectly sharp (from handheld film cameras with slow ISO film and no optical stabilization), they won’t contain enough detail to fill out a maximum resolution  scan. You could just say you’ll set the scanner to 3000 or 4000 dpi for 35mm film, and 300 dpi for prints (or more if you want to have enough pixels for future enlargement), and that could be good enough for all family uses.



rozel said:


> 5.  Last but not least will it be worth while Profiling my Scanner?


Maybe not for family stuff.


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## rozel (Mar 31, 2022)

@Paul_DS256 @GaryG  and  @Conrad Chavez  Once more your help is superb and truly appreciated.  I shall collect together all my Photos, Negs and Slides and get cracking working out my Workflow with all the information provided on here and my other online research and reading.

Cheers everyone

Paul


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