# JPEG sRGB looks the same as AdobeRGB after export



## mirekti (Oct 12, 2014)

I am using Dell U2713H monitor, and have calibrated hardware profiles CAL1 to AdobeRGB, and CAL2 to sRGB. When I switch between those two profiles in the monitor I can see the obvious difference in the color saturation, and even some hue shift (in skys for example).
I picked to use CAL1 profile most of the time, and aware of the fact most web applications use sRGB for export photos to jpeg so whenever I export a file I do it as a sRGB.
What I don't understand, why the exported sRGB photo in CAL1 looks almost the same as the one in Lightroom (using ProRGB, but shown in AdobeRGB space of the monitor settings CAL1). Shouldn't the photo after being exported to sRGB look the same as if I changed the color space in the monitor from CAL1 to CAL2?


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## Victoria Bampton (Oct 12, 2014)

Only some colors will notice - try finding one with a really strong red.


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## clee01l (Oct 12, 2014)

Let's talk about color spaces.  Colorspaces are like Russian matryoshka dolls.   The largest is ProPhotoRGB.  It was developed by Kodak. The next size that fits inside the ProPhotoRGB envelope is AdobeRGB. It has a color range suitable for printing.  Fitting inside the AdobeRGB envelope is sRGB.  It was developed almost 20 years ago by HP to describe the typical color range of a 1996 CRT.  Your Dell has the capability to show colors outside of sRGB and close to the edges of the AdobeRGB envelope.  If you have a color outside of the AdobeRGB envelope, but inside the ProPhotoRGB envelop, your monitor will not display it in its true frequency.  It will instead display that pixel on the color frequency closest to the true color frequency, but still falling inside the color space envelope that it is capable of showing.  So, what do you suppose happens to a pixel that has a frequency that falls inside sRGB.  Well it also falls inside AdobeRGB and your AdobeRGB color monitor will display it just the same as a sRGB monitor.  If you want to see differences you need to pick color frequencies that fall outside of sRBG but inside AdobeRGB.  This is why Victoria is suggesting that you look for images that contain a really strong red.  These are more likely going to contain reds that fall outside of sRGB.


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## mirekti (Oct 12, 2014)

While the color spaces are not so confusing, their application really is. This might not even be the Lightroom issue I see, but it only takes part in it.

I'll try to describe what I see once again. I understand most of the applications in Window7 won't be able to use AdobeRGB. Here are my settings, and observed facts:
*
CAL1 set as AdobeRGB *vs *CAL2 set as sRGB*

Windows7 -> jpeg thumbnails (exported as sRGB) look way over saturated. I believe this is due to Win7 which doesn't support color management. *vs *Regular color thumbnails
Lightroom -> colors look well *vs *less saturated colors (as if someone pulled the Saturation slider to -10, -15)
Win Photo Viewer ->  colors look well, but slideshow is over saturated. Looks the same as LR  *vs *again the viewer behaves well and it matches the colors of LR, but overall less saturated than in CAL1

My concern is why when using CAL1, jpegs diplayed in LR or PhotoViewer don't look the same as when I switch to CAL2. There is a difference in saturation of the files, but both are the same jpegs exported in sRGB space. 
I expected the Russian matryoshka (photo exported as jpeg in sRGB space) keeps the same dimensions (looks) no mater if it is stored in a bigger one (CAL1, AdobeRGB) or stands by itself (CAL2, sRGB).


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## davidedric (Oct 13, 2014)

Going back to your original post,  I'm no Cletus or Victoria, but aren't there two also different colour space conversions happening? 

With the exported file,  Lightroom does the conversion from its internal space to sRGB 

In the second your monitor profile is doing the conversion 

As far as I know, though you would hope the conversions would be very similar, they need not be identical. 

I await correction! 

Dave


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## Victoria Bampton (Oct 13, 2014)

Hang on, so what are you viewing the exported photo in?  Are you importing it back into LR or viewing it in another program?


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## mirekti (Oct 14, 2014)

I am viewing images in FastStone. Maybe there is a problem in the monitor.
Anyhow, when I export the photo as sRGB, and look at it in the AdobeRGB space I see almost no changes. When I look at the same photo in sRGB space I see the saturation, and hues changed. I'd expect to see the same thing in both scenarios.
Is it possible the CAL1 profile in the Monitor somehow 'upscales' the sRGB photo to AdobeRGB? This doesn't make much sense, though.


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## Victoria Bampton (Oct 15, 2014)

Import the exported photo into Lightroom and then compare.  That'll take a variable out of the equation.


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## mirekti (Oct 17, 2014)

I did that, and the result is the same. sRGB photo imported into LR appears pale when the monitor is set to CAL2 (sRGB space), and saturated and colorful when the monitor is set to CAL1 (AdobeRGB space).

I still cannot tell whether the Monitor's sRGB is reducing the color space too much or Lightroom too little. Anyhow, the difference is more than obvious, and it makes me feel


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## Medwyn (Oct 17, 2014)

When you are changing the settings on the monitor are you also changing the monitor profile in Windows to match?


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## mirekti (Oct 17, 2014)

I don't have to as it uses hardware profiles CAL1 and CAL2 in the monitor. My Color Mgmt table un windows is empty.


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## Medwyn (Oct 17, 2014)

mirekti said:


> I don't have to as it uses hardware profiles CAL1 and CAL2 in the monitor. My Color Mgmt table un windows is empty.



OK. I was under the impression that you still need an .icm for each Cal. I stand corrected.


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