# using lightroom syncing on tablet and phone



## barryb1717 (Jan 30, 2020)

I am new to lightroom classic. I have 29,000 photos, and I want to know if I sync all of them, how much space would it take up on my tablet? where are the images stored? also, how would I remove the synced images and revert back to my regular classic LR without losing my editing info.


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## Johan Elzenga (Jan 30, 2020)

The synced images are stored as smart previews in the cloud. What happens on your tablet depends on whether you download the smart previews to your tablet or not. A smart preview is about 1 MB. If you do not download the smart previews to the tablet (by marking the albums 'Store Locally), then only a normal preview will be saved on the tablet. It's difficult to predict how large that preview will be, because that partly depends on the image content.


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## alec.dann-verizon (Jan 30, 2020)

If you are shooting photos on your smartphone, you should use the Lightroom app (set to RAW!).  Those photos will take up more of your LR cloud storage because the originals are stored in the cloud.  If you set up a folder in Lightroom Classic for photos synced from the cloud (Lightroom --> Preferences --> Lightroom mobile sync tab), your iphone photos will be synced to your hard drive from the cloud.  If you delete those photos from the All Synced Photos For those photos from  All Sync Photos (in Library, Collections at the top of the left panel), they will be deleted from the cloud but will remain on your hard drive.  Add them to a synced collection and you'll have them back in the cloud but only the Smart Preview will be uploaded.  Will keep your storage in the cloud under your subscription limit.


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## Act II Photography (Feb 14, 2020)

What if you also have the originals stored on your laptop?  What’s the best way of synchronizing the photos from LRCC to LRClassic?
Let me provide some details on workflow:
1- Uploaded 1600+ Raw files (cr2) from camera to LR Mobile on iPad Pro.
2- Organized into albums.
3- Cull and edit most photos.  (LR Mobile synched to LRCC completed)
4- Back from travels and want to migrate all photos (and edits) to my MacBook Pro.  I’ve used LRClassic for several years and it is my base.  I am now using LR Mobile to avoid lugging my laptop in my travels.
5- To minimize the downloads of 50+ gbytes of  raw files, I transferred all the files from iPad to my laptop.
6- To complete the migration, I need synch up the settings (edits) as well!
Any suggestions?


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## alec.dann-verizon (Feb 15, 2020)

I think you have it right except for steps 5 and 6.  I believe the right way to get the files and settings into LR Classic from LR cloud (my name for what used to be LR CC) is to let them sync via LR Classic's sync capability.  I know this will be tedious but it shouldn't take more than a day or two.

Why I believe this to be true:

LR Classic doesn't write develop settings to the Raw files (unless you import at DNG) so I wouldn't expect LR cloud to work any differently.  You should be able to check this readily by comparing an image you've adjusted with one of Raw files you copied (import it with a name change or allow duplicates)
When LR Classic syncs an image, it is downloading the original file and also copying the metadata and develop settings to the Classic catalog from LR Web.  You've got the first part with your file copy from iPad to laptop but you won't get the second part unless you export the files from LR cloud (DNG or originals+settings) but that's more work than just letting the images sync.
Further food for thought:

Since you are getting your adjustments through Sync, there is no point in adding your copied Raw files to the catalog and adding them will just result in duplicates you don't want.
Your Albums won't get synced with LR Classic but you can work around that by adding a keyword for each album to the images in it and using those keywords (once they sync) to create smart collections.  Along that same line, adding a keyword for your entire trip will help you create a baseline smart collection with all your images in it.  To create the album-based collections you just duplicate the main smart collection and add a keyword criterion to it.
I assume you upgraded to get more storage than 20GB in LR cloud.  You don't have to stick with that.  You can downgrade to 20GB once you've finished syncing if you follow the steps in Rob Sylvan's article linked below.  Essentially, once you have synced everything, you have to delete the synced images from All Synced Photographs. This doesn't delete the image files, it just stops them from being synced and removes them from the cloud.  To get them back into LR cloud, add them to a synced collection (cannot be a smart collection, however).  In that case, only the previews get synced.  Big difference in cloud storage usage.
A good source for the ins and outs of syncing between LR classic and LR cloud is Rob Sylvan's articles in Lightroom Killer Tips and Photoshop User (Under the Loupe column, accessible through the free level of membership in Kelbyone.com).  Here's one that got me started learning about this: Managing Adobe Cloud Storage Space for Classic Users.

Hope this helps.


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## alec.dann-verizon (Feb 15, 2020)

barryb1717 said:


> I am new to lightroom classic. I have 29,000 photos, and I want to know if I sync all of them, how much space would it take up on my tablet? where are the images stored? also, how would I remove the synced images and revert back to my regular classic LR without losing my editing info.


If you are syncing from LR Classic to LR Cloud, the settings are stored in both places but LR cloud only holds a preview.  If remove an image from All Synced Photographs in LR Classic, it is removed from LR cloud but the original image and its settings are still in LR Classic.  You can sync A LOT of images from LR Classic to LR cloud without hitting the storage limit.

Where you can run into trouble is if you are using the LR cloud app (on phone or tablet) to shoot photos and capturing those as RAW files.  See Managing Adobe Cloud Storage Space for Classic Users for a good way to handle that.


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## Act II Photography (Feb 15, 2020)

Thanks Alec.  It seems to me that if LR Cloud can export a LR Classic compatible catalog file, then my workflow can save me a lot of time tying my internet bandwidth for syncing.  It is what it is so they say.


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## alec.dann-verizon (Feb 15, 2020)

I don't see an option to export a catalog from Lightroom cloud.  Even if it is there, it will tie up your internet exporting it.  Whether that is faster than syncing or not is TBD.  You'd only find out by testing it.  Documentation of the cloud product by Adobe is woefully thin.


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## Jim Wilde (Feb 15, 2020)

Act II Photography said:


> What if you also have the originals stored on your laptop?  What’s the best way of synchronizing the photos from LRCC to LRClassic?
> Let me provide some details on workflow:
> 1- Uploaded 1600+ Raw files (cr2) from camera to LR Mobile on iPad Pro.
> 2- Organized into albums.
> ...


Syncing Classic with the cloud is the obvious answer. You have all the information needed in great detail in Victoria's books....specifically, read the "Cloud Sync" section of your Classic Missing FAQ book.


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## Jim Wilde (Feb 15, 2020)

alec.dann-verizon said:


> When LR Classic syncs an image, it is downloading the original file and also copying the metadata and develop settings to the Classic catalog from LR Web.


That's a slightly confusing reference to "LR Web", as LR Web is the name of the client app that runs in a browser window to access the user's cloud account. In this particular case, better to say that Classic gets the images and settings directly from the Adobe cloud.


> Your Albums won't get synced with LR Classic but you can work around that by adding a keyword for each album to the images in it and using those keywords (once they sync) to create smart collections.


Albums *do* automatically sync (will appear as Collections in Classic), it's the Album/Collection hierarchy which does not sync (called Folders in the cloud app, Collections Sets in Clasic). And the "use a keyword" workaround wouldn't work in any case, as keywords *don't* sync.


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## alec.dann-verizon (Feb 15, 2020)

Jim Wilde said:


> That's a slightly confusing reference to "LR Web", as LR Web is the name of the client app that runs in a browser window to access the user's cloud account. In this particular case, better to say that Classic gets the images and settings directly from the Adobe cloud.



Agreed.  Would be helpful if Adobe would name this product in a way that helps us identify it.  Searching for information on the cloud product is a real pain as a result.



Jim Wilde said:


> Albums *do* automatically sync (will appear as Collections in Classic), it's the Album/Collection hierarchy which does not sync (called Folders in the cloud app, Collections Sets in Clasic). And the "use a keyword" workaround wouldn't work in any case, as keywords *don't* sync.



I just tested albums syncing and not am seeing the collections created in LR cloud being created in Classic.  I created test albums in both the desktop and iPhone versions of Lightroom cloud and neither synced with Classic.  On the other hand, a collection created in Classic shows up as an album in LR cloud, so that's a solution, albeit an indirect one.

I tested the keywords too and, you are correct.  They don't sync.


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## HobbyJohn (Feb 15, 2020)

Sometimes LR Classic creates a collection set called “From LR Mobile” Check for that, it may be in there. I create a lot of albums on mobile and they have always synced back to Classic for me, though sometimes the sync does take a while.
As mentioned previously, the hierarchy and order of albums/collections does not sync either way.


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## Jim Wilde (Feb 15, 2020)

HobbyJohn said:


> Sometimes LR Classic creates a collection set called “From LR Mobile”


That's correct. In fact I think any album created in any of the Lightroom "cloudy" apps should always initially appear in the "From Lightroom" collection set in Classic, (though they can subsequently be moved out of that collection set if preferred).


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## alec.dann-verizon (Feb 15, 2020)

I see the "From Lightroom" collections now.  That's great to know.  Your insights are much appreciated.


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## Act II Photography (Feb 17, 2020)

Jim Wilde said:


> Syncing Classic with the cloud is the obvious answer. You have all the information needed in great detail in Victoria's books....specifically, read the "Cloud Sync" section of your Classic Missing FAQ book.


Just a slightly different question.  I manage my photos  from multiple travel excursions with multiple catalogs.  Does that mean that the cloud will be the “central“ depository of the smart previews of all the synched catalogs?  Seems like a process not is not quite scalable.


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## Jim Wilde (Feb 17, 2020)

Syncing Classic with the cloud is intended to be used by one Classic catalog only.....if you normally create different Classic catalogs for each of your travel excursions, then you will struggle to achieve an effective workflow if you intend to use an iPad as your travel "computer". It's easy if you have just one catalog which you sync with the cloud, but not so much if you have multiple catalogs. 

It's "doable", but only by clearing out the cloud contents after downloading into the current Classic catalog, then creating a new catalog for the next trip and switch syncing to that new catalog (if you don't clear out the cloud contents before switching sync from one catalog to another, the current contents of the cloud will automatically be downloaded into the new catalog). But while that's possible, it destroys one of the compelling advantages of the cloud, i.e. having access to all your images wherever you are.

Personally, I'd be re-thinking the multiple catalog approach.


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## Act II Photography (Feb 17, 2020)

Why then would  LR classic use  catalogs then?  Packing all photos created for many years on many subject matters seems like asking  one to live in a house with just one room!  I must say this is more a solution to solve a software deficiency than the software solution that address a real time use scenario.  I hope Adobe can do more.


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## clee01l (Feb 17, 2020)

Act II Photography said:


> Why then would  LR classic use  catalogs then?  Packing all photos created for many years on many subject matters seems like asking  one to live in a house with just one room!  I must say this is more a solution to solve a software deficiency than the software solution that address a real time use scenario.  I hope Adobe can do more.


Let's hope that you can broaden your understanding of how Lightroom was designed to work.   All of the characteristics that you use to defile images into unique catalogs can be use to create collections and keywords in the same catalog.   With one catalog, you can use the powerful search features that make Lightroom a powerful image management tool.  

Lets say the you live in a big country like the US.  There are 330 million residents of the US but everyone born here calls them selves American.   They all have different names and live in different cities.
That one catalog is like the big country.  The thing that we share are keywords, or cities of residence   Or organizations that we might be members of like your local camera club.
With one catalog I can find People named Cletus Lee, All of the people that live in Houston, TX, All of the people that graduated from Va. Tech.  Or all of the people that are Astros fans.    If you separate images into separate catalogs you can not  find all of the people from  Houston Texas, or All of the Astros fans 
Adobe designed the Lightroom Catalog to be searchable, scalable and to be extendable.  Some people have catalogs that has close to 1 million images.


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## HobbyJohn (Feb 17, 2020)

Act II Photography said:


> Why then would  LR classic use  catalogs then?  Packing all photos created for many years on many subject matters seems like asking  one to live in a house with just one room!  I must say this is more a solution to solve a software deficiency than the software solution that address a real time use scenario.  I hope Adobe can do more.


Collections, base folder structure, and keywords gives you all the rooms you could ever want in a house. Using multiple catalogs would present more limitations than benefits. What happens when you take a photo that includes aspects of several different catalogs? If you are at Yellowstone and take a wide shot of a field with a herd of bison in the field, would that go in the Landscapes catalog? The wildlife catalog? The Yellowstone catalog? Or copy to each catalog and process the photo three times? If you are using one catalog that photo can have keywords for each of those, plus simultaneously be in a collection for each, and lets you find any photo without having to switch catalogs.  

I originally started setting up a multiple catalog system, but quickly found that it was not worth the trouble. Multiple catalogs might be useful for scenarios where two different photographers share a computer (maybe a husband and wife with separate photography businesses, one who shoots weddings and the other shoots action sports), or someone who wants to keep their personal photos and business photos separate. 

Years ago, LR had a harder time dealing with huge catalogs, and some recommended splitting off older photographs to a separate catalog to keep the image count down, but it now handles those huge catalogs really well.


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## Act II Photography (Feb 17, 2020)

clee01l said:


> Let's hope that you can broaden your understanding of how Lightroom was designed to work.   All of the characteristics that you use to defile images into unique catalogs can be use to create collections and keywords in the same catalog.   With one catalog, you can use the powerful search features that make Lightroom a powerful image management tool.
> 
> Lets say the you live in a big country like the US.  There are 330 million residents of the US but everyone born here calls them selves American.   They all have different names and live in different cities.
> That one catalog is like the big country.  The thing that we share are keywords, or cities of residence   Or organizations that we might be members of like your local camera club.
> ...


Let's hope that the guy with a million images' catalog does not get corrupted.  This single point of failure is not my idea of the a scalable system.


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## Conrad Chavez (Feb 17, 2020)

Act II Photography said:


> Why then would  LR classic use  catalogs then?  Packing all photos created for many years on many subject matters seems like asking  one to live in a house with just one room!  I must say this is more a solution to solve a software deficiency than the software solution that address a real time use scenario.  I hope Adobe can do more


A lot of the reason is historical. We’re seeing the effects of change on an application that was designed for an earlier era, and retrofitted for today's needs.

When Lightroom Classic was originally released (as Lightroom 1.0), it fit right it with its competition. Its major competitors, including Apple Aperture and iView Media Pro (which I used), were catalog-based. They all supported multiple catalogs. They were also all 100% local, because cloud sync was not yet a thing.   Media Pro also supported multiple open catalogs you could search across, an extremely  useful capability that Lightroom has never matched. So that's why Lightroom Classic has multiple catalogs: It was expected, it was the standard…in 2007.

When Adobe realized they had to sync Lightroom to mobile devices, they eventually discovered that Lightroom Classic has technical limitations preventing full-featured cloud syncing, since Classic was never designed for it. When you said “I hope Adobe can do more.” what Adobe did generally fits the description of “more:” They completely rewrote Lightroom from the ground up, into a new separate version on a new code base that was completely cloud-friendly and could sync a complete range of raw and metadata edits across desktop and mobile devices. When they did this, they answered your other question “Why then would  LR classic use  catalogs?” Their answer was “Good question. With the new Lightroom, we have decided that catalogs are gone.” That is why Lightroom (non-Classic) no longer uses catalogs. In non-Classic Lightroom, the cloud is the master storage, all organization is virtual (i.e. device-independent), and all connected devices are merely clients that cache whatever they’re working on. If you buy into that, it does greatly simplify and clarify things like travel workflows.

But they couldn’t throw out Lightroom Classic because of die-hard users like me who cannot give up its feature set. When I travel, I make a temporary travel catalog and dump my cards into that. When I get home, I use File > Import from Another Catalog to merge that trip into my single master catalog. This is because I want to be able to create collections of images taken at any time, and large catalogs are not a problem in Lightroom Classic. My master catalog is beyond 110,000 images at this point. So I maintain one master catalog, and a few other catalogs for very specialized uses, such as testing and projects that must not interact with the master catalog. As was already mentioned, the powerful organization capabilities in  Classic mean that a single catalog is really a house with as many rooms as you need.

If you study how Lightroom Classic catalogs work, you’ll find that scalability is a lot bigger problem if you maintain many catalogs. For example, each individual catalog must be upgraded every time there is a major version upgrade to Lightroom Classic. Granted, most of the reason multiple catalogs are a pain is because of deficiencies in Lightroom Classic (e.g. poor handling of multiple catalogs, and poor handling of upgrading catalogs like how they’re given a confusing default name).



Act II Photography said:


> Let's hope that the guy with a million images' catalog does not get corrupted.  This single point of failure is not my idea of the a scalable system.


Lightroom Classic can create its own ongoing catalog backups that are compressed to save space, and a user’s own versioned whole system backup (such as Apple Time Machine) should provide an extra measure of protection. If I find out that my catalog got corrupted a few days ago, I do have automatically created backups from before that point to fall back on.

It’s also interesting to note that the two major competitors Lightroom had in the beginning are now gone. Aperture and Media Pro did not survive into the  mobile device sync era.


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## clee01l (Feb 18, 2020)

Act II Photography said:


> Let's hope that the guy with a million images' catalog does not get corrupted. This single point of failure is not my idea of the a scalable system.


The guy with a million photos in one catalog is smart enough to backup that catalog often so that when the disk drive fails there’s a back up catalog available to recover. Is that person smarter than the guy with a million different catalogs on one disk drive that just failed?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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