# Creative Cloud - Ps & Lr - $9.99/month



## PhilGF

So I'm sure most have heard this and received e-mail about it.

_*"Introducing a special Adobe Creative Cloud plan designed exclusively for photographers. Get the latest versions of Adobe Photoshop CC and Lightroom 5, plus 20GB of cloud storage, Behance ProSite for your own fully customizable professional portfolio, ongoing feature updates*, and more — all for US$9.99/month for as long as you continue your membership†. Valid for Photoshop CS3 and later customers."  *_

From what I've heard Abode is doing this not to help out Photographers, but because they need to boost the users for CC. 

So okay, this is a great price but they just released Lr V5, I paid $75 in June and so this would cost me the full $75 for 3 months of use! I called Adobe Customer support, I asked if since they didn't offer this at the release of V5 would they offer some credit or discount? I was told no!

Understandably this is a great deal if you didn't upgrade yet, but from the side of someone who is a loyal customer and updates right away it's a rip-off! They could have used this opportunity in June to make me move to the cloud, that $75 dollars would have bought me Lr & Ps for 7.5 months!

Just really piss pour marketing! IMO:twisted:


----------



## clee01l

PhilGF said:


> ...
> Just really piss pour marketing! IMO:twisted:


Yes, probably the weakest link in the Adobe Corporation.  I own CS2 and a few years back tried to downgrade from CS to PS standalone.  I qualified to upgrade to the latest version of CS, but Adobe said no.  Now they are doing exactly the same thing for CS3,4,5 & 6 licensees.   "Adobe released its third quarter earnings after the closing bell on Tuesday, showing that revenue and profit declined again, even at a faster pace than analysts expected."  Doesn't sound too much like this CC plan is having exactly the effect on the bottom line that they wanted.


----------



## sizzlingbadger

Quite frankly I think a lot of people have had enough of Adobe and their sneaky charging practices. They should put their products in an online app store for small prices and update them once a year for a full price just like Apple do. They would make a fortune.


----------



## johnbeardy

Well don't worry, the "driving force" behind Adobe's Creative Cloud jumped ship in March and joined Apple.... We're all doomed.

John


----------



## Victoria Bampton

PhilGF said:


> From what I've heard Abode is doing this not to help out Photographers, but because they need to boost the users for CC.



If they were doing it to boost the number of CC users, don't you think it would have less restrictive conditions?  If they wanted to boost numbers, wouldn't they have opened up a similar deal to people who had never purchased Photoshop too?



PhilGF said:


> So okay, this is a great price but they just released Lr V5, I paid $75 in June and so this would cost me the full $75 for 3 months of use! I called Adobe Customer support, I asked if since they didn't offer this at the release of V5 would they offer some credit or discount? I was told no!
> 
> They could have used this opportunity in June to make me move to the cloud



Yeah, that's really frustrating.  It's not unusual for special offers not to be backdated or earlier purchases not to be credited though.  If I purchased a piece of software from, say, MacUpdate, and a couple of months later they offer a bundle including the same piece of software, I wouldn't get credited.  Or I buy something from Amazon and then the price goes down, I wouldn't get my money back.  Or I buy a car, and 3 months later a better deal comes up, but the value of my car's now gone down because I've driven it off the forecourt.  Irritating, frustrating, but real life.

I agree it should have been avoided by making the deal available at the time of LR5's release.



PhilGF said:


> Just really piss pour marketing!


Unfortunately it's always been their downfall.  Their communication skills are AWFUL.



clee01l said:


> "Adobe released its third quarter earnings after the closing bell on Tuesday, showing that revenue and profit declined again, even at a faster pace than analysts expected." Doesn't sound too much like this CC plan is having exactly the effect on the bottom line that they wanted.


And yet their shares are at an all time high.  It was always a long term gamble, not a short term one.


----------



## sizzlingbadger

johnbeardy said:


> Well don't worry, the "driving force" behind Adobe's Creative Cloud jumped ship in March and joined Apple.... We're all doomed.
> 
> John



That could explain Apple's recent share price


----------



## PhilGF

Victoria Bampton said:


> If they were doing it to boost the number of CC users, don't you think it would have less restrictive conditions?  If they wanted to boost numbers, wouldn't they have opened up a similar deal to people who had never purchased Photoshop too?.



I think I heard this on TWIP, not sure. Just seems like poor public relations. Although, now that I think about it Nikon pulled something like this last year. In Sept 2012 I bought the brand new D600 with lens. In Dec., they had a $500 rebate or gave the lens away for free and on top of it B&H {where I bought it} also gave away the Rode microphone that cost me $160 free with the purchase! So I was really screwed being an early adopter.

But then isn't it something like 1:4 where people are more likely to complain about something compared to complimenting? Also how can a company have there name attached to Reader and Flash which although free, are disgraces with all their security flaws? 

I just hope that Adobe doesn't destroy themselves with bad marketing over time. We are all here because of Lr. I'm a PC guy and refuse to move to the_ dark side_ {*APPLE*}!


----------



## Anthony.Ralph

I have LR5.2 and Photoshop CS6. The £8.78 deal is open until 31st December so, having been burned by Adobe chopping and changing the CS5-to-CS6 upgrade deal, I plan to wait until December before making a final decision on this 'offer'. This allows [a] to see how things are going and * maximising the spend I made to upgrade Lightroom to 5.xx before this seemingly acceptable offer expires.

The OP could hang on for a while too I imagine...

The other thought I had was that my Photoshop is the standard version and the CC version is the extended one, so I would get an additional advantage if I took up the offer.

Anthony.*


----------



## PhilGF

Anthony.Ralph said:


> I have LR5.2 and Photoshop CS6. The £8.78 deal is open until 31st December so, having been burned by Adobe chopping and changing the CS5-to-CS6 upgrade deal, I plan to wait until December before making a final decision on this 'offer'. This allows [a] to see how things are going and * maximising the spend I made to upgrade Lightroom to 5.xx before this seemingly acceptable offer expires.
> 
> The OP could hang on for a while too I imagine...
> 
> The other thought I had was that my Photoshop is the standard version and the CC version is the extended one, so I would get an additional advantage if I took up the offer.
> 
> Anthony.*


*

Anthony, 
Yes, that is what I'm thinking, get 6 months out of my $75 instead of 3 months. And as you pointed out, see what happens.

I also use Premiere Pro and After Effects. I wish Adobe would offer packages where you choose what you want. Say a "pick 2", I would get Photoshop and Premiere Pro.*


----------



## LouieSherwin

Hi,

There is, in my point of view, a significant difference between purchasing the LR5 upgrade and the new CC offer. And that is if you purchase the upgrade that is still a perpetual license. So it may really not be wasted money. This new offer if you qualify means the you are effectively getting Photoshop CC for a forever $9.99/mo. For myself anyway it make sense to go ahead and upgrade to LR5 perpetual regardless if I later decide to this offer. 

Regarding Adobe's stock price the reason it has gone up is that they have exceeded their projections of CC subscriptions sold last quarter. They and already announced and the investors expected that the income would drop because of the shift so that fact has already been factored in. As Victoria has already noted Adobe is taking a longer view than just the latest quarterly results. And in terms of setting expectations to the markets they have succeeded very well. 

How this plays out long term, however, is yet to be seen. Is this surge in subscriptions indicative of existing customers converting or is there a also a lot of people jumping in because the it is only a little bit a month to try it out and once that curiosity is satisfied then letting the subscription drop. I don't think that this will be clear until at least a year or more down this road. 

It seems that maybe Adobe is struggling as evidenced by this pretty radical change in their business model. The question is are they struggling because of the business model or for other reasons, too bloated and over grown from all the acquisitions for example. The best business solutions almost always the answer to the question "How do I take care of my customers?". Clearly many of us in the photography market do not feel taken care of. We seem to have some impact as also seen by the fact of this new offer. 

Personally I feel like a fish out of water (flip-flop-flip) about the decision of what to do. I, as many others have expressed, am quite annoyed with the way this has come down. Adobe is seems to be making product marketing decisions specifically designed to make it hard to not subscribe. For example making ACR in Photoshop CS6 incompatible with the new features in Lightroom 5 (ACR 8 minus the cool new stuff). On the other hand Camera Raw and Photoshop are simply the best raw processing and image editing tools out there. 

For now I am going to upgrade to LR5 so that I can keep the perpetual license. I will probably also take advantage of this subscription offer just so that I can keep LR and Photoshop in sync. This will buy me at least a year of time to wait and see how this experiment in licensing plays out. 

-louie


----------



## johnbeardy

I'm not sure it's fair to ascribe Adobe's increasing stock price to exceeding projections of Creative Cloud subscribers. It's been rising pretty consistently over the last year or so, and its more likely to be as a result of a range of factors, including investors' belief in future, long term, projections. 

They also aren't exceeding projections. At the time they removed the choice to buy their software in May, Adobe had 700000 subscribers and now it's 1 million, so the rate of new subscribers has been consistent. They are though likely to hit the 1.25 million target for the year end (which merely proves their management are sufficiently competent that they publish a target they confidently expect to exceed).

John


----------



## PhilGF

[QUOTE For now I am going to upgrade to LR5 so that I can keep the perpetual license. I will probably also take advantage of this subscription offer just so that I can keep LR and Photoshop in sync. This will buy me at least a year of time to wait and see how this experiment in licensing plays out. 

-louie[/QUOTE]

I think this is what I'll do too, just wait for December.


----------



## Gene_mtl

@Louie" Why the need to keep "*LR and Photoshop in sync*"?  

I have PS CS4.  Had LR2, upgraded to LR4 and now upgraded to LR5.  Admittedly I do not do a lot of major editing in PS - A bit of layering/masking, cloning, simple edits. Would use Elements except it balks at 16bit images.  I edit in PS CS4 with Lightroom adjustments, so issues with different ACR versions are not a problem.  But even if the two ACR engines were the same, PS still saves off an TIFF with whatever edits you do in it. So I don't see any difference to workflow.

So I'm wondering what I am missing regarding a need to keep both software in sync?


----------



## Hal P Anderson

Gene,

You're not missing much that way. The only real difference (assuming you don't use any of the new PS features) is that if you edit with LR adjustments and decide not to save from PS, you'll have to delete the LR-produced TIFF if the two applications aren't in sync.

Otherwise, no difference.

Hal


----------



## neil79

PhilGF said:


> [QUOTE For now I am going to upgrade to LR5 so that I can keep the perpetual license. I will probably also take advantage of this subscription offer just so that I can keep LR and Photoshop in sync. This will buy me at least a year of time to wait and see how this experiment in licensing plays out.
> 
> -louie



I think this is what I'll do too, just wait for December.[/QUOTE]

That means you will be paying twice for LR5.  Can you not miss a version in the perpetual  LR and then upgrade to LR6 if you decide not to stay with the cloud ?

I have PS6 and LR4 and if I decide to trial the CC photography  deal for 12 months I won't be buying  LR5 perpetual  as well as CC.


----------



## DianeK

neil79 said:


> That means you will be paying twice for LR5.  Can you not miss a version in the perpetual  LR and then upgrade to LR6 if you decide not to stay with the cloud ?



My understanding is if you skip a version of Lr, i.e. go from 4 to 6, then you are not eligible for the upgrade price and would have to pay full price for Lr6.


----------



## Victoria Bampton

DianeK said:


> My understanding is if you skip a version of Lr, i.e. go from 4 to 6, then you are not eligible for the upgrade price and would have to pay full price for Lr6.



I can't make any promises by the time LR6 comes round, but at this point in time, you can upgrade from as far back as LR1 to LR5.  It's only the CS programs that had planned to switch to one-version-back upgrade discounts.


----------



## DianeK

Victoria Bampton said:


> I can't make any promises by the time LR6 comes round, but at this point in time, you can upgrade from as far back as LR1 to LR5.  It's only the CS programs that had planned to switch to one-version-back upgrade discounts.



I stand corrected


----------



## clee01l

Previously this offer required CS3 or higher to qualify.   The offer has changed and Ownership of any version of PS is no longer a requirement.  The offer is good through December 2nd.  After 12 months rates in effect at that time will apply. 

https://creative.adobe.com/plans/offer/photoshop+lightroom


----------



## LouieSherwin

Cletus,

This seems to be a different offer. It now has a 1 year term and then you revert back to the full CC price. That seems to be what the terms state. 

Has adobe retracted the original offer? 

-louie


----------



## clee01l

LouieSherwin said:


> Cletus,
> 
> This seems to be a different offer. It now has a 1 year term and then you revert back to the full CC price. That seems to be what the terms state.
> 
> Has adobe retracted the original offer?
> 
> -louie


This and the previous offer were for a limited time.  The other offer was for CS3 and up licensees. This one includes that audience and any one else IF that audience owns a LR license. I recall that the other offer was for a one year term too. There are no "in perpetuity" price guarantees. Even the full CC package has no guarantees on monthly price after your agreed upon term expires

The full price for the complete CC package has been and remains $49.99/mo.  The upgrade price is $29.99.  The single app price (presumably just PS or another app and not bundled w/ LR) is $19.99. The special offer bundle is the only one that is $9.99/mo   All of these are for a one year subscription and subject to change after the term of the subscription expires.


----------



## Jim Wilde

Louie, see my post in the other thread. 

I signed up to the "original" offer back in September, here's an extract of the confirmation e-mail:


----------



## LouieSherwin

I found the original email with the Dec 31 date. The link in the email takes me to this new offer that removes CS3 or later requirement but adds the Dec 2 deadline. 

And here are the weasel words in the very fine print...



 Offer is valid until December 31, 2013, and can be changed without notice. Void where prohibited or restricted by law.


Further:

*Renewal*
After the first 12 months, we will automatically renew your contract based on the current price of the offering.
Which is likely to be??? Your guess is as good as mine since they reserve the right to change the T&Cs when ever they want.

-louie


----------



## clee01l

Louie, I outlined the current CC prices above. And from that it appears the $19.99/mo price is what you would merge into.  And while everyone is concerned about price hikes, I'll remind us that LR used to sell of $300 new and $99 upgrade.  And Also Apple used to sell their operation systems, iWork apps and charge for upgrades. Now those upgrades are free and the iWork apps are free too.


----------



## Jim Wilde

I don't really see it as being any different to my broadband contract or my heating maintenance cover or my auto club membership fees.....they're all offered at a rate of x for a period of y, after which the price may be subject to change. They'll all have similar weasel words in the small print.....

It still looks a good deal, at least for the first 12 months, after which we'll see what happens.


----------



## PhilGF

So I'm sure most have heard this and received e-mail about it.

_*"Introducing a special Adobe Creative Cloud plan designed exclusively for photographers. Get the latest versions of Adobe Photoshop CC and Lightroom 5, plus 20GB of cloud storage, Behance ProSite for your own fully customizable professional portfolio, ongoing feature updates*, and more — all for US$9.99/month for as long as you continue your membership†. Valid for Photoshop CS3 and later customers."  *_

From what I've heard Abode is doing this not to help out Photographers, but because they need to boost the users for CC. 

So okay, this is a great price but they just released Lr V5, I paid $75 in June and so this would cost me the full $75 for 3 months of use! I called Adobe Customer support, I asked if since they didn't offer this at the release of V5 would they offer some credit or discount? I was told no!

Understandably this is a great deal if you didn't upgrade yet, but from the side of someone who is a loyal customer and updates right away it's a rip-off! They could have used this opportunity in June to make me move to the cloud, that $75 dollars would have bought me Lr & Ps for 7.5 months!

Just really piss pour marketing! IMO:twisted:


----------



## Jim Wilde

clee01l said:


> And from that it appears the $19.99/mo price is what you would merge into.



Is that explicitly stated anywhere, Cletus? Or is it just your expectation?


----------



## LouieSherwin

I recall some feedback from an Adobe person that this "special bundle" price would be not change year to year. However, the wording in the terms statement certainly leave it open to interpretation. 

I really don't like the way Adobe keep changing their minds about this. 

-louie


----------



## clee01l

Jim Wilde said:


> Is that explicitly stated anywhere, Cletus? Or is it just your expectation?


From the current plans, it is the only way to continue a subscription for PSCC only.  So, yes that is my expectation. However, I also expect that when the PSCC/LR bundle subscriptions start to expire in a year or less, Adobe will have a different plan available for PSCC/LR expires.


----------



## johnbeardy

My understaning is that $9.99 is the base price, and it's not a discounted rate for the first year. So it won't revert to $19.99 after 12 months, and any increases that Adobe allow themselves will be based on $9.99. 

John


----------



## LouieSherwin

Jim Wilde said:


> I don't really see it as being any different to my broadband contract or my heating maintenance cover or my auto club membership fees.....they're all offered at a rate of x for a period of y, after which the price may be subject to change. They'll all have similar weasel words in the small print.....
> 
> It still looks a good deal, at least for the first 12 months, after which we'll see what happens.



The big difference to me is that if I don't like the service from any of these other vendors I can change to a new service. But with CC I do not have another alternative to edit my images. It makes much easier for Adobe to abuse the relationship. Just as an example here, what is the meaning for the phrase, "_based on the current price of the offering."_? 

Is there even going to be Photoshop/Lightroom bundle or will Adobe change their mind again? This is the uncertainty that has me feeling more than a little uncomfortable about this whole deal. It is clear that Adobe wants to get all of us locked into CC monthly billing but it is not so clear what they will do after we are all making our monthly payments. 

I agree that $9.99/month for PS/LR bundle is an attractive price. If it were clearly stated that this is an official CC offering with the expectation of nominal annual increases it would help remove many concerns. So far Adobe has been less than forthright about their intentions and plans. I see this retraction of the original offer as evidence of their own internal turmoil.

-louie


----------



## clee01l

johnbeardy said:


> My understaning is that $9.99 is the base price, and it's not a discounted rate for the first year. So it won't revert to $19.99 after 12 months, and any increases that Adobe allow themselves will be based on $9.99.
> 
> John


John what you say may very well be the result.  However, currently Adobe has no plan price for this bundle other than this special plan which expires 12/2.  So either Adobe has to continue this plan after the first year term or offer it at a different price after the limited offer expires or roll these subscribers into one of the existing plans.  It is _my hope and expectation_ is that sometime in January Adobe will offer this plan at some price higher than $9.99/mo for new users that just want a version of PS and LR  regardless of what they own and that there will be a renewal term for the current plan subscribers of $9.99/mo


----------



## johnbeardy

For those taking up the $9.99 offer, that's _their_ base price upon which future incremental price rises are possible. For those not accepting the offers before the 2nd / 31st December deadline, one assumes the $19.99 is still lurking, but I expect a series of similar offers next year until Adobe reach their targets or decide they need to backtrack.


----------



## LouieSherwin

Interesting, I just now received a new email from Adobe for the Photoshop CC/Lightroom 2 $9.99 but now extended to 12/31 again. 

The "Join" link on the email takes me directly to the CC signup page and not to the current "Black Friday" offer page which is still showing the 12/02 deadline.

So it appears that both offers are active but you my need to be on a "secret" mailing list to use the 12/31 date. 

I went back and found the email for the original Photoshop CC/LR offer and that link now goes to the new Black Friday offer.

"You are lost in a maze or twisty passages" (quote from the original "Adventure" game running on our the state of the art DEC PDP 11 timesharing system.)

-louie


----------



## Victoria Bampton

John Nack's blog is the most helpful: http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2013/1...ographers-photoshop-lightroom-for-9-99mo.html

Both offers are still running:

Anyone can sign up by 2nd December for the Black Friday deal
CS3+ owners have until 31 December to sign up

The terms of the offer are the same for both.


----------



## PhilGF

Here it is, December and I'm still on the fence to take the $9.99 offer. I guess the biggest concern here for me is that I no longer make money with photography, it's strictly a hobby now. 

Still spending lots of money on gear and computer hardware though. I don't use Ps that much anymore because of Lr. 

Maybe the new bells and whistles of Ps6 Extended will make me get more involved with Ps?


----------



## Victoria Bampton

Completely understand that debate Phil!  What do you currently use for any retouching you need to do?


----------



## sizzlingbadger

There is no option to pay for the deal in NZ$ so I have to pay in AU$. This means my monthly payments are higher and will change as the NZ/AU$ exchange rate fluctuates.

I also note that the offer is available to everyone until 31 Dec not 2nd Dec as stated above, perhaps this has been extended yet further ?

http://www.adobe.com/nz/products/creativecloud/faq.html

I have signed up today, I thought it has to be worth it for at least a year and we'll see how it goes. I have CS5 to go back to if it doesn't work out.


----------

