# Camera Calibration: Neutral vs Neutral v2



## Pollok Shields (Dec 14, 2016)

Using Nikons I see I have "v2" versions of the camera profiles. There's a bit of difference between them, Neutral seems to be a less contrast, less colour version than Neutral v2. Ditto the others. I assumed these were profiles to match the JPEGs the cameras produce. If so, why are there V2 versions, and why are they so different?

[I haven't compared these with the actual Nikon JPEGs or results from Nikon Capture, it's just I prefer Camera Standard (v2) to Adobe Standard.]


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 14, 2016)

Apparently Adobe thought they could be improved...


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## clee01l (Dec 14, 2016)

At one time Adobe released Nikon D810 camera profiles that were flawed.  There was a quick patch that resulted in the V2 profiles.  If you are running LRCC2015.8, you can remove the V2 profiles as the current standard profiles have the patch included. You can find the V2 profiles here: /Users/[user name]/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 14, 2016)

Thanks Cletus. But here's a thing... I'm not using a D810, both my Df and D600 have the 'old' and 'v2' versions. Ans although I said above that I haven't compared them with Nikon's own colours, I have now. On the Df at least the 'original' Neutral calibration matches Nikon Capture NX-D setting. But LR's Neutral v2 is warmer and a bit darker.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 14, 2016)

So what's the problem? Use the one you like best.


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 14, 2016)

Not a problem, an observation. I like to understand stuff.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 14, 2016)

OK, so the explanation is that Adobe thought they could improve the profile, but for the sake of compatibility (you don't want to see all your images change all of a sudden and without explanation) they didn't 'update' the existing one but created a version 2.


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## clee01l (Dec 14, 2016)

Pollok Shields said:


> Thanks Cletus. But here's a thing... I'm not using a D810, both my Df and D600 have the 'old' and 'v2' versions. Ans although I said above that I haven't compared them with Nikon's own colours, I have now. On the Df at least the 'original' Neutral calibration matches Nikon Capture NX-D setting. But LR's Neutral v2 is warmer and a bit darker.


Check the folder that I referenced to see if the V2 files are there.  If so you don't need them.  I know of no other reason  besides the D810 bug for Adobe v2 profiles.


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 14, 2016)

clee01l said:


> Check the folder that I referenced to see if the V2 files are there.  If so you don't need them.  I know of no other reason  besides the D810 bug for Adobe v2 profiles.



They're not! If these were to squash a bug I wonder why I see a difference in colour and contrast. I've been using Standard v2 as my default on import as I though it must be better than 'v1'. But now I think I actually prefer all the v1 versions...

Do you see the same either on the D810 files or other Nikons?


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 14, 2016)

The camera profiles are in /Library/Application Support/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles/Camera

Not in the Users Library!


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## Linwood Ferguson (Dec 14, 2016)

If you actually USED the V2 profiles for some photos, and remove them, the Lightroom has to default to something.

Is it smart about what it defaults to?   I recall making a mess once by deleting a profile (well, by not adding it back after moving my install to a new computer), but do not recall exactly what it did.  I think it fell back to the default you get out of the box?


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 14, 2016)

Ferguson said:


> Is it smart about what it defaults to?   I recall making a mess once by deleting a profile (well, by not adding it back after moving my install to a new computer), but do not recall exactly what it did.  I think it fell back to the default you get out of the box?



Mmmm. I will try and see later but not now incase I break something while I'm (meant to be) working.


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## clee01l (Dec 14, 2016)

Looking in the regular default location for all camera profiles (/Applications/Adobe Lightroom/Adobe Lightroom.app/Contents/Resources/CameraProfiles/Camera), I see the V2 versions listed for your DF & D600.  I have no explanation as for why they are there.  They are not present from my D810 or many other Nikon camera.  I do not recall any Adobe post explaining the Differences.  Maybe Victoria Bampton can shed some light here.


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## clee01l (Dec 14, 2016)

Pollok Shields said:


> The camera profiles are in /Library/Application Support/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles/Camera
> 
> Not in the Users Library!


Those are for the ACR plugin for PSCC not for Lightroom.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Dec 14, 2016)

It's interesting that the adobe provided profiles are in different places for LR and PS, but when I create a custom profile it goes in one place they share.  BTW, I looked on my relatively fresh LR/PS install which is current and I don't see any V2 profiles in the Nikon area for either PS or LR.


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 14, 2016)

Ferguson said:


> BTW, I looked on my relatively fresh LR/PS install which is current and I don't see any V2 profiles in the Nikon area for either PS or LR.



Have a look in the Df, D600, D700 and D4s folders. Not all camera have other versions.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Dec 14, 2016)

Sorry, yes.  What a strange organization.

There's: 

C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom\Resources\CameraProfiles\*Adobe Standard\Nikon D600 Adobe* Standard.dcp

C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom\Resources\CameraProfiles\*Camera\Nikon D600*\Nikon D600 Camera Standard.dcp

C:\ProgramData\Adobe*\CameraRaw*\CameraProfiles\*Adobe Standard\Nikon D600* Adobe Standard.dcp

C:\ProgramData\Adobe\*CameraRaw\*CameraProfiles\*Camera\Nikon D600\*Nikon D600 Camera Standard v2.dcp

I didn't understand why there were separate Lightroom/CameraRaw locations, but they reversed their naming convention with the "Camera" profiles, going from "Profile\CameraName" to "Camera\CameraName\.

And then of course if you have custom profiles they are in the shared area:

*C:\Users\Ferguson\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles\*Alico LED D5.dcp

where they can be used for both LR and PS.

It seems really odd that the user area is shared, the PS/LR area is not, but I never realized the LR/PS area also had this reversed naming structure, so you look for a specific camera in foure not two places much less one place that you should.  Yes, I realize the historical conversion for "Adobe Standard" to "Camera Standard", etc., but this just seems... pointlessly spread out.


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