# Culling prior to Import?



## gegjrphotography (Oct 13, 2021)

I did search on the forum before posting this question, so I hope I didn't miss it. Does anyone review (cull) their images before importing to LrC catalog? When I say review (cull) I mean just for purpose of marking for deletion or deleting prior to import to LrC catalog. I am tired of importing 100s of images only to end up deleting 80% or more of them later. Whether you copy to another location or leave them at their present location is irrelevant to my question. I simply want to know what program you use to review the images prior to importing. I don't even care if you keep them on the card or copy/move to another location. It's only important that you're reviewing them before you import to the catalog. I have Windows-10.
Do you use Bridge, Windows Photo, or some other app?


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## Replytoken (Oct 13, 2021)

There is no right or wrong answer to culling inside or outside of LR.  It all depends on your workflow and what is comfortable for you.  I prefer to cull outside of LR so I only import what I intend to keep.  The programs that I use for culling are FastStone Image Viewer and Fast Raw Viewer.  I like the former because I can evaluate up to four images at any magnification I prefer, and it is all controlled easily with single key strokes on the keyboard.  I use the latter when I actually need to see the  raw file rather than the embedded preview.  There are other viewer programs that will allow you to look at up to four images, but FSIV has many other useful features that I like, so I have used it, despite any  limitations.  The heavy hitter in this category is Photo Mechanic.  It has its own workflow that can dovetail nicely with LR, but it does take a bit of setting up.  Post any follow-up questions if you need more information or suggestions.

Good luck,

--Ken


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## gegjrphotography (Oct 13, 2021)

Replytoken said:


> There is no right or wrong answer to culling inside or outside of LR.  It all depends on your workflow and what is comfortable for you.  I prefer to cull outside of LR so I only import what I intend to keep.  The programs that I use for culling are FastStone Image Viewer and Fast Raw Viewer.  I like the former because I can evaluate up to four images at any magnification I prefer, and it is all controlled easily with single key strokes on the keyboard.  I use the latter when I actually need to see the  raw file rather than the embedded preview.  There are other viewer programs that will allow you to look at up to four images, but FSIV has many other useful features that I like, so I have used it, despite any  limitations.  The heavy hitter in this category is Photo Mechanic.  It has its own workflow that can dovetail nicely with LR, but it does take a bit of setting up.  Post any follow-up questions if you need more information or suggestions.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> --Ken


Thank you for the information. Yes, I know of Photo Mechanic (PM) but it's expensive and since I'm just doing cursory review I don't need or want to pay for an elaborate program but thanks for suggestion anyway. When you mentioned FRV and FSIV it reminded that I have Sony's Imaging Edge Desktop apps that includes a raw image viewer and even an editor. I'll try using it first. Thanks again for responding.


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## clee01l (Oct 14, 2021)

I can’t think of a speedier way to cull image than by importing them first into Lightroom Classic. You can start your culling process as soon as the first image is available in Lightroom. You do not need to wait for the import process to finish. Doing the outside of Lightroom means importing them twice. First into some Data asset management tool (Like PM) and then importing them again into another Data Asset management tool (Lightroom) Either way you need to import all of the images into some DAM tool whether you end up importing some of them into Lightroom or start with Lightroom. 
I used to cull in Lightroom Classic, now I import into Lightroom on my iPadPro and do preliminary work there I don’t delete in Lightroom because Images are being sync’d with the cloud and down to Lightroom Classic on my iMac. I just mark culled images as rejected and delete once the sync process has reached my Classic catalog.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Rob_Cullen (Oct 14, 2021)

clee01l said:


> I can’t think of a speedier way to cull image than by importing them first into Lightroom Classic.


True. And if you use 'Embedded Previews' in the Import dialog- even faster as LrC does not need to create its own presets.


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## gegjrphotography (Oct 15, 2021)

clee01l said:


> I can’t think of a speedier way to cull image than by importing them first into Lightroom Classic. You can start your culling process as soon as the first image is available in Lightroom. You do not need to wait for the import process to finish. Doing the outside of Lightroom means importing them twice. First into some Data asset management tool (Like PM) and then importing them again into another Data Asset management tool (Lightroom) Either way you need to import all of the images into some DAM tool whether you end up importing some of them into Lightroom or start with Lightroom.
> I used to cull in Lightroom Classic, now I import into Lightroom on my iPadPro and do preliminary work there I don’t delete in Lightroom because Images are being sync’d with the cloud and down to Lightroom Classic on my iMac. I just mark culled images as rejected and delete once the sync process has reached my Classic catalog.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm trying to import into another DAM. I am talking about reviewing directly from the card and deleting those that don't fit keep status. Then whats left import into my LrC catalog. I'm not sure I trust that LrC won't crash if try importing and culling simultaneously especially if there's 200 or more images. I'm talking about using an image browser only not a full blown DAM. I'll try it a few times and if it seems redundant I'll quit. It just seems senseless to import into catalog only to end up deleting. I wish LrC would let me review and mark for import or deletion prior to actually importing.


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## gegjrphotography (Oct 15, 2021)

Rob_Cullen said:


> True. And if you use 'Embedded Previews' in the Import dialog- even faster as LrC does not need to create its own presets.


See my reply to clee01l


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## PhilBurton (Oct 15, 2021)

clee01l said:


> I can’t think of a speedier way to cull image than by importing them first into Lightroom Classic. You can start your culling process as soon as the first image is available in Lightroom. You do not need to wait for the import process to finish. Doing the outside of Lightroom means importing them twice. First into some Data asset management tool (Like PM) and then importing them again into another Data Asset management tool (Lightroom) Either way you need to import all of the images into some DAM tool whether you end up importing some of them into Lightroom or start with Lightroom.
> I used to cull in Lightroom Classic, now I import into Lightroom on my iPadPro and do preliminary work there I don’t delete in Lightroom because Images are being sync’d with the cloud and down to Lightroom Classic on my iMac. I just mark culled images as rejected and delete once the sync process has reached my Classic catalog.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Clee,

I have experience only with Fast RAW Viewer, and not PM or Faststone.  I think that the question of culling before import to Lightroom depends on the subject matter.

I recently photographed a Giants-Dodgers game (Giants won) and i took hundreds and hundreds of photos, mostly at 9 fps.  Every time the batter took a swing, I started taking pictures.  I took photos of many infield plays, if I had the skill to point the lens in the right direction.  I took pictures of the pitcher doing his windup and throw.  Not suprisingly, on the first pass, I culled out over 95 % of the photos.  Later in the workflow I did a critical cull.

For this situation, Fast RAW Viewer did a good job.  (I have my issues with the interface, but that's a separate subject.)  

I started by copying all my photos from the memory card to my "default import" folder.  In FRV all I did was mark photos for deletion or assign a star rating, nothing more like white balance.  The key here is that all the "deleted" photos were deleted from disk using FRV, from the default import folder, so Lightroom never had to deal with them.  Pretty straightforward, and I think a lot faster than doing the same cull in Lightroom.

Also recently I photographed a number of headstones for family members who have passed on.  One photo per headstone in most cases.  For this situation, there was absolutely no reason for me to use FRV.  I just imported all the photos into Lightroom for processing.


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## gegjrphotography (Oct 15, 2021)

PhilBurton said:


> Clee,
> 
> I have experience only with Fast RAW Viewer, and not PM or Faststone.  I think that the question of culling before import to Lightroom depends on the subject matter.
> 
> ...


@PhilBurton and @clee01l that is exactly what I'm talking about. When I shoot my grandkids sporting events I can come home with a 1000 images or more shooting 8-12fps in continuous Hi+. I really don't like trying to do a cursory pass while LrC is importing.


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## Zenon (Oct 15, 2021)

Always. I use Canon's DPP - Quick Check - Full Screen. DPP's downsizing algorithm for 'fit to screen' display is very good and contrasty which creates the illusion of sharpness. It's like viewing a final Jpeg.  I press x as I cull.  At the end I select  Edit - Rating - Select Rejected Images Only. Then File - Move to Trash.


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## davidedric (Oct 15, 2021)

From a different perspective.  I'm used to dealing with the low hundreds of photos, not thousands.
I find that for my m4/3 cameras DxO's PhotoLab gives the best raw conversion / noise reduction.  So I view the photos in PhotoLab and export/import into Lightroom the "best" ones.  I don't actually cull, they are still there on disk (I may delete the hopeless ones), but only a subset are in the Catalogue.


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## clee01l (Oct 15, 2021)

gegjrphotography said:


> I'm not sure I trust that LrC won't crash if try importing and culling simultaneously especially if there's 200 or more images. I'm talking about using an image browser only not a full blown DAM.


The only reason that Lightroom might crash is due to inadequate hardware or Operating system .   Lightroom crashing should never be a concern.  It never has been for me.  My camera card can hold around 1000 images.  Though I rarely import more than a few hundred,  I am confident that my Operating system and working storage are adequate to handle all of the images that I might throw at it 

The Lightroom Import dialog has a Loupe setting that permits you to inspect a large view of each image.  This acts like the image browser that you think you need.   I rarely use the Loupe View in the import dialog because the import process is so much quicker that the import is done before I could review more than a few images.


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## Zenon (Oct 15, 2021)

To prevent crashing use Embedded and Sidecar at import.


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## Philippe Coudé du Foresto (Oct 15, 2021)

I'm used to cull in LrC. I sometimes have more than 1000 photos on the card (from a full day of horse competition) and I never experienced a Lr crash. I like the useful tools LrC has to cull : use X to mark as rejected and filter on non rejected, comparison mode, loupe view, etc. For me it's very fast and efficient and I don't think using anything else.


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## Jimmsp (Oct 16, 2021)

Philippe Coudé du Foresto said:


> I'm used to cull in LrC. I sometimes have more than 1000 photos on the card (from a full day of horse competition) and I never experienced a Lr crash. I like the useful tools LrC has to cull : use X to mark as rejected and filter on non rejected, comparison mode, loupe view, etc. For me it's very fast and efficient and I don't think using anything else.


I am like you (except for the horse   ).  This weekend I unloaded about 1000 images from a walk through a local canyon, looking for autumn shots. I follow a National Geo philosophy I learned of "work the scene": varying composition, varying aperture, occasional HDR, etc. If I threw away a lot of shots before I did some initial processing in LR, I would lose some of my better shots.  LR makes it easy for me to do a first pass following an Auto tone where I can mark some obvious ones for deletion, mark some with 1 star (as probable keepers) and 2 star as definite keepers. The 0 star shots are kept and probably deleted a day or so later - but worth looking at them a second time. The 2 star shots are processed first.  

I have found over time that the brain can get tired looking at a series of photos that are close to one another, and picking out the best one takes some time.  I suppose if I were in the  newspaper business with tight deadlines, I'd feel differently.  Then I would cull quickly, and not worry about tossing a great shot away, and move on.


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## johnbeardy (Oct 16, 2021)

I'm with Jim here and prefer to get the pictures into LR (and copied), then decide at my leisure which to keep. 

At some events it's not hard to shoot hundreds and even thousands of pictures. I do often begin by culling before Import, but rather than complicate life with another app I review new pictures in LR's Import dialog which displays the embedded previews and lets me cull with the X shortcut. 

But the more photos I've taken, the more tedious this becomes, and the more I am likely to be tired or need to eat/sleep etc, or just want to get working on some of the images. So after a while, I'll just hit the Import button. In other words, why introduce a bottleneck by culling before import?


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## Gnits (Oct 16, 2021)

I think there is no “one size fits all”.

I am very familiar with PhotoMechanic, Fast Raw Viewer and have just purchased Gnarbox 2.  My personal photography style (landscape,street, travel with occasional sport) means  I do not need to pre prune images before import ( except sometimes I want to import jpg only, sometimes raw only and sometimes for specific dates). lr is not helpful here.

As a pre processor for Lr, PhotoMechanic(PM)  is the most mature and has a lot more functionality than most people need. It does allow you to preselect from an sd card and provides lots of tools to assist the workflow of a sports shooter or someone who needs to get the best images quickly to a client or editor, but PM learning curve and or pricing might be barriers.

Fast Raw Viewer (FRV) has very effective functionality for preselecting images. Further, they are extremely responsive to end user suggestions. They have implemented some of my suggestions already and have indicated they will add others in due course. When they do it will make FRV my favourite tool as a preprocessor to Lr (ie solve the issues I raise in the brackets above).


It is too early for me to comment on GnarBox2, but I can see the attractions of the device to support many of the workflow needs of photographers in the field, where backing up their images safely and quickly is vip. The ability to link to this device with smart phone or ipad provides options to rate and review and preselect what i ages get copies to your main workstation.

I have first hand experience of wild life photographers, shooting at 30 frames per second, who desperately need a solution to preselect the keepers before they reach the main workstation, otherwise the volume of data completely overwhelms the available storage.

Regularly wildlife photographers will have a whole string of images, maybe 30 maybe 100 that they know just do not make the grade and can be screened out of the workflow at the earliest point, preferably before landing on your main disk storage.

The ultimate solution is proportional to the volume of images you need to handle, the turnaround time and other factors.

While I am familiar with these options, I am not an expert, but will be happy to try and answer any questions anyone might have.


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## Replytoken (Oct 17, 2021)

johnbeardy said:


> But the more photos I've taken, the more tedious this becomes, and the more I am likely to be tired or need to eat/sleep etc, or just want to get working on some of the images. So after a while, I'll just hit the Import button. In other words, why introduce a bottleneck by culling before import?


I share that feeling about the tedious nature, but the counterpoint is why import everything and then have to deal with the "mess" later on?  I tend to fall in the middle.  I do cull outside of LR, but if in doubt, I keep the image and move on.

--Ken


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## gegjrphotography (Dec 20, 2021)

I did search for this question but came up empty. If this question has asked and answered I apologize and please point me to thread.
 Does anyone cull images before importing into LrC and if so what kind of browser software do use, Bridge or some other? I don't want to do any adjustments at all to the images I just want to look at them (delete maybe) to decide if they're worth keeping before importing (move from the SD card) to catalog and moving to permanent location on my external SSD.


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## Replytoken (Dec 20, 2021)

I use FastStone Image viewer (FSIV) in conjunction with FastRaw viewer.  I like the former because it can display four images and can easily be controlled from the keyboard.  I use the latter when I need to critically evaluate the raw file.  There are a few other programs that will display more than two images at a time, but FSIV has been my go to program for culling and for cropping for a while.

Photo Mechanic is generally the default program a lot of folks use, especially if you want to embed metadata.

Good luck,

--Ken


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## gegjrphotography (Dec 20, 2021)

Replytoken said:


> I use FastStone Image viewer (FSIV) in conjunction with FastRaw viewer.  I like the former because it can display four images and can easily be controlled from the keyboard.  I use the latter when I need to critically evaluate the raw file.  There are a few other programs that will display more than two images at a time, but FSIV has been my go to program for culling and for cropping for a while.
> 
> Photo Mechanic is generally the default program a lot of folks use, especially if you want to embed metadata.
> 
> ...


Thanks for responding. I don't want to make any changes of any kind nor do I want to import from the card. I just want to decide to delete or keep. I don't want any meta data changes made such as date modified. I will delete unusable images directly from card then close the image browser and open LrC to import the keepers. Hope I adequately described what I want to do?


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## clee01l (Dec 20, 2021)

gegjrphotography said:


> I did search for this question but came up empty. If this question has asked and answered I apologize and please point me to thread.
> Does anyone cull images before importing into LrC and if so what kind of browser software do use, Bridge or some other? I don't want to do any adjustments at all to the images I just want to look at them (delete maybe) to decide if they're worth keeping before importing (move from the SD card) to catalog and moving to permanent location on my external SSD.


Lightroom is a Digital Asset Management (DAM) tool.  You use a DAM tool for managing your images including deciding which ones to keep.  The logic  of using one DAM tool to decide what to input to another DAM tool escapes me. 
It is a quick and simple process to import all of the images on the camera card to the Lightroom Catalog AND then decide which ones to keep and with ones to delete. 
IMO you only need one DAM tool to manage your images and that tool should be Lightroom.


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## Replytoken (Dec 20, 2021)

gegjrphotography said:


> Thanks for responding. I don't want to make any changes of any kind nor do I want to import from the card. I just want to decide to delete or keep. I don't want any meta data changes made such as date modified. I will delete unusable images directly from card then close the image browser and open LrC to import the keepers. Hope I adequately described what I want to do?


You do not need to make any changes, but I would not recommend deleting files from on the card from your computer as the chances for corruption or file management problems seem to be greater based on past experiences.  Otherwise FSIV can do what you are asking.

--Ken


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## gegjrphotography (Dec 20, 2021)

clee01l said:


> Lightroom is a Digital Asset Management (DAM) tool.  You use a DAM tool for managing your images including deciding which ones to keep.  The logic  of using one DAM tool to decide what to input to another DAM tool escapes me.
> It is a quick and simple process to import all of the images on the camera card to the Lightroom Catalog AND then decide which ones to keep and with ones to delete.
> IMO you only need one DAM tool to manage your images and that tool should be Lightroom.


Well sir, you misunderstand! There is a distinct difference between a file browser and a DAM! I am not an idiot, sir! I simply want to view the images before I go to trouble to import to a permanent location and add to my catalog only to have to turnaround later and delete unusable (or unwanted) files from my permanent storage location not to mention from my catalog. I know LrC makes it fairly easy to "remove and delete" files at the same time but I prefer not to add and move files in the first place I don't want in my catalog and storage location to begin with! So please don't color everything from your own narrow perspective of how to think. Your way of thinking is not the only way to think. That is what dictators do. And, while I'm at it, I asked for input from people that might be doing the workflow not from people that think it's ludicrous to want  to do it!


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## hanoman (Dec 20, 2021)

Hi gegjr,
do you think, thats the approbiate tone to communicate in this forum?


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## gegjrphotography (Oct 13, 2021)

I did search on the forum before posting this question, so I hope I didn't miss it. Does anyone review (cull) their images before importing to LrC catalog? When I say review (cull) I mean just for purpose of marking for deletion or deleting prior to import to LrC catalog. I am tired of importing 100s of images only to end up deleting 80% or more of them later. Whether you copy to another location or leave them at their present location is irrelevant to my question. I simply want to know what program you use to review the images prior to importing. I don't even care if you keep them on the card or copy/move to another location. It's only important that you're reviewing them before you import to the catalog. I have Windows-10.
Do you use Bridge, Windows Photo, or some other app?


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## gegjrphotography (Dec 20, 2021)

hanoman said:


> Hi gegjr,
> do you think, thats the approbiate tone to communicate in this forum?


Do you think his response was appropriate?


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## Replytoken (Dec 20, 2021)

If I could ask folks to take a step back for just a moment, that would be greatly appreciated.  We have a small handful of very experienced gurus who do most of the heavy lifting on answering questions in the forum, and that can sometimes be an overwhelming task.  And we have members who  range from the experienced  to folks who are brand new.  This can make for some challenging conversations as we do not often know what folks do or do not know.

I do not believe there was any ill intent meant in the response above, but rather it reflects a passion for using LR Classic from "soup to nuts", a strategy that many folks have adopted.  I am sorry if it was taken in a different manner, but let's try and keep the tone on a positive note as best we can.  We can agree to disagree on our workflows, but let's also give folks the benefit of the doubt when we can.  We are all entitled to a less than perfect day or response from time to time.

Much appreciated,

--Ken


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## clee01l (Dec 20, 2021)

gegjrphotography said:


> Well sir, you misunderstand! There is a distinct difference between a file browser and a DAM! I am not an idiot, sir! I simply want to view the images before I go to trouble to import to a permanent location and add to my catalog only to have to turnaround later and delete unusable (or unwanted) files from my permanent storage location not to mention from my catalog. I know LrC makes it fairly easy to "remove and delete" files at the same time but I prefer not to add and move files in the first place I don't want in my catalog and storage location to begin with! So please don't color everything from your own narrow perspective of how to think. Your way of thinking is not the only way to think. That is what dictators do. And, while I'm at it, I asked for input from people that might be doing the workflow not from people that think it's ludicrous to want  to do it!


I don’t misunderstand.  A File browser is also a DAM tool with limited capabilities.  As I say the logic of using two separate apps when one (Lightroom) will do the same job escapes me.   When I am importing into Lightroom, I can begin processing the imported images before the import completes.  I cull in three passes:  On import, during edit develop and finally deciding which processed images to keep and which throw away. 

Image browsers such as FastStone still needs to read every image and create in working storage a temporary file to show you an image to make a cull decision.   So in a sense, you are importing twice. First into the File browser and again into Lightroom.


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## clee01l (Dec 20, 2021)

gegjrphotography said:


> I am not an idiot, sir! …. Your way of thinking is not the only way to think. That is what dictators do. And, while I'm at it, I asked for input from people that might be doing the workflow not from people that think it's ludicrous to want  to do it!


No one called you an idiot.  I simply stated that I do not see the logic in importing twice (first to a temporary location and again to a permanent location).  I am well aware that many experienced users (Like Ken) do use a pre processor but my logical mind does not see this as efficient.


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## gegjrphotography (Dec 20, 2021)

Replytoken said:


> If I could ask folks to take a step back for just a moment, that would be greatly appreciated.  We have a small handful of very experienced gurus who do most of the heavy lifting on answering questions in the forum, and that can sometimes be an overwhelming task.  And we have members who  range from the experienced  to folks who are brand new.  This can make for some challenging conversations as we do not often know what folks do or do not know.
> 
> I do not believe there was any ill intent meant in the response above, but rather it reflects a passion for using LR Classic from "soup to nuts", a strategy that many folks have adopted.  I am sorry if it was taken in a different manner, but let's try and keep the tone on a positive note as best we can.  We can agree to disagree on our workflows, but let's also give folks the benefit of the doubt when we can.  We are all entitled to a less than perfect day or response from time to time.
> 
> ...


Ken, I am good with it but some of your so called gurus, Cleo1l, insist on making anyone that has a different viewpoint feel like an idiot. I resent his tone and I am unhappy with how I am being made the bad guy here. Why do you insist on taking the side of your guru? Why are your gurus given carte blanche to respond with any tone they want and I'm not allowed to defend myself? Your guru didn't even have to respond to my post if he didn't agree with my chosen workflow. Your gurus word is not the end all to beat all. As I said I'm happy to accept a refund for my subscription if the administration feels I'm being unreasonable.


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## Paul_DS256 (Dec 20, 2021)

gegjrphotography said:


> Does anyone cull images before importing into LrC


I don't. I shoot both NEF and JPG but only load the NEF files in LrC. 

When reviewing the IMPORT images, I will on occasion pop into DEVELOP and AUTO TONE to determine if I'm going to try and save it or not. I use LrC for culling. Sometimes I'll use the REJECT flag instead.

You are almost implying that if you cull before importing you will not be reviewing the images in LrC. To me doing it in LrC is a single step instead of two steps.


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 20, 2021)

gegjrphotography said:


> As I said I'm happy to accept a refund for my subscription if the administration feels I'm being unreasonable.


I'm mildly curious....what subscription are you referring to?


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## Califdan (Dec 20, 2021)

Wow.  this thread really spun out of control.   

Here's my take.   The OP (original poster) posed a legitimate question and received legitimate answers but seems to have taken offense that the response from Clee was suggesting a different work flow.    Like some others, I thought the OP's response to Clee was rude and out of line in tone.   Maybe it was intended that way and maybe not, but that's how it came across to me.   I look at it this way.   If one poses a question to an open forum such as this one,  they have to expect that they will revieve different ideas, opinions, and suggestions from different people.   Some suggestions may be useful to them and some may not.  Just because someone suggests a different approach or an answer not considered useful to the OP, should not be taken as an affront or as disparaging.  Rather it should just be ignored if it is not helpful to the OP.   If an answer is not understood by the OP or the OP thinks the responder did not understand the question correctly then by all means ask for clarification or restate the question in a different way.   Sniping at a responder who is just trying to help  I don't think is helpful or called for.  

IMHO.


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## gegjrphotography (Dec 20, 2021)

Paul_DS256 said:


> I don't. I shoot both NEF and JPG but only load the NEF files in LrC.
> 
> When reviewing the IMPORT images, I will on occasion pop into DEVELOP and AUTO TONE to determine if I'm going to try and save it or not. I use LrC for culling. Sometimes I'll use the REJECT flag instead.
> 
> You are almost implying that if you cull before importing you will not be reviewing the images in LrC. To me doing it in LrC is a single step instead of two steps.


Thanks but this only applies after import. I want culling prior to import to at least get rid of unusable files first. IMHO it's a waste of resources and time to import a bunch of images that will only be discarded later or stay on my storage location taking up valuable space. IMO Adobe should create a pre-import cull function. I know I can see the files in the import dialog but they are in thumbnail and I'm no longer using a large desktop screen so thumbnails are small. Thanks for responding. Apparently the workflow I want is not looked upon favorably.


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## clee01l (Dec 20, 2021)

gegjrphotography said:


> I want culling prior to import to at least get rid of unusable files first. IMHO it's a waste of resources and time to import a bunch of images that will only be discarded later or stay on my storage location taking up valuable space. IMO Adobe should create a pre-import cull function. I know I can see the files in the import dialog but they are in thumbnail and I'm no longer using a large desktop screen so thumbnails are small


Actually, the import dialog may be exactly what you are looking for.  In addition to the Grid view, there is a Loupe view where individual image can be viewed in nearly full screen. You can even zoom an individual image up to 1600%. The Import dialog works like a file browser at this point allowing you to select individual image for import.


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## gegjrphotography (Dec 20, 2021)

Jim Wilde said:


> I'm mildly curious....what subscription are you referring to?


To The Lightroom Queen 
LR Classic Premium Membership Renewal (1 year)
Item# lr-classic-renewal
Payment sent via PayPal to [email protected]


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## Hal P Anderson (Dec 20, 2021)

The Premium Membership is for the Missing FAQ books and some extras:
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/shop/classic-cc-bundle/

Using this forum is not included in that and is always free to anyone who registers.


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## Replytoken (Dec 20, 2021)

gegjrphotography said:


> Ken, I am good with it but some of your so called gurus, Cleo1l, insist on making anyone that has a different viewpoint feel like an idiot. I resent his tone and I am unhappy with how I am being made the bad guy here. Why do you insist on taking the side of your guru? Why are your gurus given carte blanche to respond with any tone they want and I'm not allowed to defend myself? Your guru didn't even have to respond to my post if he didn't agree with my chosen workflow. Your gurus word is not the end all to beat all. As I said I'm happy to accept a refund for my subscription if the administration feels I'm being unreasonable.


I am really sorry that Cletus' post evoked such strong feelings, especially because I just do not see that intent or language in his post.  My post above was not to take sides, but rather to clarify that we have just a handful of very experienced gurus that try to respond to a variety of posts from a variety of users.  And, we sometimes will answer a post with a suggestion that might be different from what an OP would expect, so that future readers who are interested in this topic can benefit from a variety of opinions.  Yes, Cletus could have skipped your post, but I suspect that we would be the worse for it if all of the gurus took that approach.

If this conversation was happening in a pub, I suspect that we would have happily agreed to disagree on which is the better culling method, and then moved the conversation onwards to the next topic at hand.  What I am asking, from everybody, is to give each other the benefit of the doubt since written communication is void of a lot of subtleties.  This is a forum that attracts members with a very wide range of experiences, especially since we get, and welcome, a lot of folks who are brand new to LR and LR Classic.  A bit of grace, from everybody, goes along way to keeping this place running smoothly.

Thank you,

--Ken


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## Replytoken (Dec 20, 2021)

gegjrphotography said:


> Apparently the workflow I want is not looked upon favorably.


It may not be everybody's cup of tea, but given the sales and popularity of program like PhotoMechanic, I suspect that are a number of people who like to do some culling prior to importing photos into LR Classic.

--Ken


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## PhilBurton (Dec 21, 2021)

clee01l said:


> Lightroom is a Digital Asset Management (DAM) tool.  You use a DAM tool for managing your images including deciding which ones to keep.  The logic  of using one DAM tool to decide what to input to another DAM tool escapes me.
> It is a quick and simple process to import all of the images on the camera card to the Lightroom Catalog AND then decide which ones to keep and with ones to delete.
> IMO you only need one DAM tool to manage your images and that tool should be Lightroom.


@clee01

I agree with almost all of what you said, except for the part about LrC import being quick.  For a lot of my photography, I import straight into LrC.  No reason not to.  But when I am shooting a baseball game with 9 fps sequences, I get a lot of "non-keepers."  I usually start a sequence just before the batter takes his swing or when the pitcher is going through his windup.  Sometimes it's an outfield hit, sometimes a double-play, sometimes just a swing and a miss or the batter doesn't even swing.  At an SF Giants - LA Dodgers game this year (SF won!) i used Fast RAW Viewer to cull out about 90% of all my shots.

I can imagine the same sort of situation in some kinds of nature photography, e.g. birds in flight.


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## Replytoken (Dec 21, 2021)

PhilBurton said:


> @clee01
> 
> I agree with almost all of what you said, except for the part about LrC import being quick.  For a lot of my photography, I import straight into LrC.  No reason not to.  But when I am shooting a baseball game with 9 fps sequences, I get a lot of "non-keepers."  I usually start a sequence just before the batter takes his swing or when the pitcher is going through his windup.  Sometimes it's an outfield hit, sometimes a double-play, sometimes just a swing and a miss or the batter doesn't even swing.  At an SF Giants - LA Dodgers game this year (SF won!) i used Fast RAW Viewer to cull out about 90% of all my shots.
> 
> I can imagine the same sort of situation in some kinds of nature photography, e.g. birds in flight.


Yes, when I shoot BIF, and when I shot concerts year ago, the images add up quickly, and this is why I like the method that I use.  But having said that, I have seen wedding photographer show how they quickly cull in LR.  It is a different culling style with a different goal, since clients usually want to look through proofs and what mostly needs to be culled is stuff that should never see the light of day.  Add on top of that some people cull anything that is not 3-star or above while others only eliminate bloopers, and we are all over the map in our objectives.  If I did not shoot a lot of sequences, I'd probably stick with LR Classic for the most part.  But I have used FSIV for so many years for misc. things that I find using it second nature.  Of course, YMMV.

--Ken


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## PhilBurton (Dec 21, 2021)

Replytoken said:


> Yes, when I shoot BIF, and when I shot concerts year ago, the images add up quickly, and this is why I like the method that I use.  But having said that, I have seen wedding photographer show how they quickly cull in LR.  It is a different culling style with a different goal, since clients usually want to look through proofs and what mostly needs to be culled is stuff that should never see the light of day.  Add on top of that some people cull anything that is not 3-star or above while others only eliminate bloopers, and we are all over the map in our objectives.  If I did not shoot a lot of sequences, I'd probably stick with LR Classic for the most part.  But I have used FSIV for so many years for misc. things that I find using it second nature.  Of course, YMMV.
> 
> --Ken


@Replytoken 

As you say, YMMV, and probably not only the subject matter.  I'm always interested to read about other people's workflow, but as I've gained more experience with LrC, the less I think, "Oh my workflow is in adequate and deficient, and this other person's workflow is so much better."


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## clee01l (Dec 21, 2021)

Replytoken said:


> Yes, when I shoot BIF, and when I shot concerts year ago, the images add up quickly, and this is why I like the method that I use.  But having said that, I have seen wedding photographer show how they quickly cull in LR.  It is a different culling style with a different goal, since clients usually want to look through proofs and what mostly needs to be culled is stuff that should never see the light of day.  Add on top of that some people cull anything that is not 3-star or above while others only eliminate bloopers, and we are all over the map in our objectives.  If I did not shoot a lot of sequences, I'd probably stick with LR Classic for the most part.  But I have used FSIV for so many years for misc. things that I find using it second nature.  Of course, YMMV.
> 
> --Ken


And I use my all in Lightroom method for BIFs.   Initially I might sit with one finger on the X (reject) key   Deleting actual files is much later in my workflow.  I let the Rejected photos accumulate Rejected photos are easy enough to filter out using LrC.   I may accumulate 2-300 rejected photos and when convenient I will filter to select them, give them one final review and remove them from my catalog and delete them from my file system.   Since I may revisit some poor images through out the whole of my workflow, some images that initial might have been rejected are determined to be salvageable.   If I rejected these out right BEFORE import, I think that rush to judgement might cause me to miss some images that might have merit.


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## Replytoken (Dec 21, 2021)

clee01l said:


> And I use my all in Lightroom method for BIFs.   Initially I might sit with one finger on the X (reject) key   Deleting actual files is much later in my workflow.  I let the Rejected photos accumulate Rejected photos are easy enough to filter out using LrC.   I may accumulate 2-300 rejected photos and when convenient I will filter to select them, give them one final review and remove them from my catalog and delete them from my file system.   Since I may revisit some poor images through out the whole of my workflow, some images that initial might have been rejected are determined to be salvageable.   If I rejected these out right BEFORE import, I think that rush to judgement might cause me to miss some images that might have merit.


I agree there is value in giving some time to images before doing a final deletion.  And, as I have fallen quite behind in my culling due to health issues, I have considered changing some of my methods to an approach similar to yours.  The other factor is my mood when I am culling.  Sometimes I feel a bit more ruthless when I am culling, and other days I will sometimes let some marginal images slide, if only to use as a teaching tool when I am trying to learn what went right or wrong on a shoot.

--Ken


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## clee01l (Dec 21, 2021)

Replytoken said:


> Sometimes I feel a bit more ruthless when I am culling, and other days I will sometimes let some marginal images slide, if only to use as a teaching tool when I am trying to learn what went right or wrong on a shoot.


And this is why I use the method that I do.   I may get too ruthless and later ask my self, "where is that rare bird that I know I photographed?"  I go back through my rejects and discover that it was in one of the images that I rejected earlier. 

I reject images at three stages (actually four) and delete them from Lightroom usually only after the three stages in my workflow.  I reject on import (Cull).  I reject on Develop when even after Lightroom has done its magic, the image is just not up to the high standards that I set.   When I complete my workflow, the image is marked complete and unpublished or Published. Any that do not fall into one of these two categories gets rejected.  If I have multiples good savable images that fall into one of these categories, I may only choose one and then reject the rest. 

At times after I have accumulated many rejected images, I may decide to delete these.  I will filter on rejected images (X) and review each one more time before they are removed from my catalog and the disk.


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## Gnits (Dec 21, 2021)

I have composed a response to this and will send by private mail to Cletus and the original poster.  Partially, because it is too long, partially I have covered this ground before and partially I do not want to revisit some of the earlier posts in this conversation. I am posting this comment here so the private mails do not come as a surprise or if the  OP is not be familiar with the private email feature.


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## Replytoken (Dec 21, 2021)

clee01l said:


> And this is why I use the method that I do.   I may get too ruthless and later ask my self, "where is that rare bird that I know I photographed?"  I go back through my rejects and discover that it was in one of the images that I rejected earlier.
> 
> I reject images at three stages (actually four) and delete them from Lightroom usually only after the three stages in my workflow.  I reject on import (Cull).  I reject on Develop when even after Lightroom has done its magic, the image is just not up to the high standards that I set.   When I complete my workflow, the image is marked complete and unpublished or Published. Any that do not fall into one of these two categories gets rejected.  If I have multiples good savable images that fall into one of these categories, I may only choose one and then reject the rest.
> 
> At times after I have accumulated many rejected images, I may decide to delete these.  I will filter on rejected images (X) and review each one more time before they are removed from my catalog and the disk.


Yes, is is a bit of a different work flow for me, but I have been mulling some changes that would work well with this approach if/when I do make the changes.  To be perfectly honest, between health issues and work, it is not easy to find time to keep up with image management, especially culling.  And I can only cull so much for so long before my eyes physically tire.

--Ken


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 23, 2021)

I am closing this thread as the question has been answered and the tone of the thread has deteriorated. 

If anyone has a problem with a post in future, please feel free to use the Report button on the post so it can be considered and dealt with by the moderation team. 

For reference, here are the forum rules. We kindly ask that everyone re-read and comply with these rules, to maintain the happy tolerant atmosphere that we've come to enjoy here. Thank you.


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