# LR Classic and LR on iPad—how to get all pix in common?



## fbx33 (Jul 17, 2019)

Dear Folk:

 Am I mistaken in thinking that I can have all my photos in Lightroom Classic on my local machine AND backed up to the Web so that they can be used by LR Mobile on my iPad, with any changes made on the iPad, or new photos on the iPad, also backed up to my local Lightroom Classic folders on my Mac, and any changes on my local LR Classic folders backed up to cloud for iPad use?

I am not particularly interested in using LR CC on the Mac, just on the iPad.

Or is the only way to do this a full on conversion from LR Classic to LR CC?

Any help with this problem much appreciated. And it it’s already covered in detail somewhere, just a link would do the trick.

Thanks much—


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## clee01l (Jul 17, 2019)

You are not mistaken.  However. Lightroom Classic only syncs Collections to Cloud Albums.   In Classic, you need to designate which (static) collections are to sync.  Depending on how many and how fast you connection is, in short order your collections will be available in the Adobe Cloud for access by your mobile devices running the Lightroom app. This even includes a laptop running the "Cloudy" version of Lightroom.


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## Califdan (Jul 18, 2019)

> Am I mistaken in thinking that I can have all my photos in Lightroom Classic on my local machine AND backed up to the Web so that they can be used by LR Mobile on my iPad, with any changes made on the iPad, or new photos on the iPad, also backed up to my local Lightroom Classic folders on my Mac, and any changes on my local LR Classic folders backed up to cloud for iPad use?



Yes this is entirely possible with some caveats.  metadata (keywords, and the like) do not sync between LR Classic and LR Cloud except at the time of the first sync form Classic to Cloud.   However, image changes (develop module) do sync both ways.   DO NOT tell LR to sync you entire Classic catalog with the cloud as that is more or less a one way street to using Cloud based tools only. 

To replicate your entire LR catalog of images to the Cloud ecosystem, assuming you have enough cloud storage, create a smart collection with only one rule:  "Rating is greater than or equal to 0 stars" (in other words every image you have).   Then sync that smart collection with the cloud and away you go.  a Smart Preview of each and every Classic image will (eventually) sync to the cloud at which time they can be seen and manipulated on your iPad or phone.   The folder structure from Classic will not migrate to the cloud and in this method all the images will be in one Cloud based Album.   If you want to impose some organization in the cloud, other than date, instead of one "all photos" collection, create a collection (smart or dumb) for each Cloud "album" you want and sync those individual collections with the cloud.  Each such collection will become an album in the cloud.  If you used collection sets in Classic to group such collections those collection sets do not migrate to the cloud but once the collections (now albums) arrive in the cloud you can group them into the equivalent of collection sets (I forget what Adobe called these groups).  If you take photos with your phone or iPad, it can be set to automatically send the full size original image files down to your desktop and add them to your LR Classic catalog.

*CAUTION*:  What is in the cloud in this scenario should not be considered as a backup of your Classic Based images.  What is in the cloud are Smart Previews (small Jpg's) of your images so should be thought of as throw-a-way reduced quality copies.  They are not copies of your full size RAW files nor are they copies of your Original JPG files.  You need some other means to create backups of these original images - and the optional backup performed by LR when you exit the program does not back these up either.

*CORRECTION:  *Smart collections can't (yet) be marked to sync. So, create a dumb (regular) collection for "all images" rather than a smart collection, You can then create a smart collection to list all the images not in the regular collection so you'll know which ones you need to drag over there.


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## Jim Wilde (Jul 18, 2019)

clee01l said:


> You are not mistaken.  However. Lightroom Classic only syncs Collections to Cloud Albums.   In Classic, you need to designate which (static) collections are to sync.  Depending on how many and how fast you connection is, in short order your collections will be available in the Adobe Cloud for access by your mobile devices running the Lightroom app. This even includes a laptop running the "Cloudy" version of Lightroom.



This isn't quite correct. Images can be synced from Classic to the cloud without having to be in collections at all. Certainly, adding images to collections which are then enabled to sync is the easier way to organise the synced assets, but it isn't a specific requirement. Every image in my Classic catalog is synced to the cloud, but only 40% are organised into synced collections.



Califdan said:


> Yes this is entirely possible with some caveats.  metadata (keywords, and the like) do not sync between LR Classic and LR Cloud except at the time of the first sync form Classic to Cloud.   However, image changes (develop module) do sync both ways.   DO NOT tell LR to sync you entire Classic catalog with the cloud as that is more or less a one way street to using Cloud based tools only.



Again, this needs some correction. 

1. Some metadata DOES sync between Classic and the cloud, i.e. Copyright, Title, Caption, GPS co-ordinates, File renames (though only from Classic to cloud as the cloud apps don't yet allow renaming). Keywords, Location Data and Face Recognition data do not sync.
2. It is possible to transfer existing Keywords and Location Data from Classic to cloud, but that is only a one-time transfer on first sync (i.e. any subsequent changes do not sysnc), and that initial transfer can only happen IF you have first saved metadata to XMP in Classic and IF you have not already created Smart Previews in Classic for the images you are planning to sync.
3. I don't understand the last sentence....from my point of view there is absolutely no reason why a user cannot sync their entire Classic library to the cloud, and I don't understand why that would be a one way street to using cloud only. Bearing in mind that only smart previews would be synced, and those smart previews do not currently count against the initial 20GB cloud allowance, it makes perfect sense to sync the entire library if the user wants access to that library on phones/tablets/web whilst remaining Classic-centred.


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## Califdan (Jul 19, 2019)

> 3. I don't understand the last sentence....from my point of view there is absolutely no reason why a user cannot sync their entire Classic library to the cloud, and I don't understand why that would be a one way street to using cloud only. Bearing in mind that only smart previews would be synced, and those smart previews do not currently count against the initial 20GB cloud allowance, it makes perfect sense to sync the entire library if the user wants access to that library on phones/tablets/web whilst remaining Classic-centred.



When you tell LR to do it all (In Classic, select File > Migrate Lightroom Catalog.) ,  First of all, the full size RAW or original JPG's are copied to the cloud and those cloud stored versions are considered by LR (including LR Classic) as the original source files and count against your cloud storage usage   I have not done this, so may not have all the nuances 100% correct, but as I understand, once you take this step, you can actually delete all the source files from your local hard drives and LR will not care as it no longer considers them as the official source files.  If you have a large number of images and especially if they are RAW, the 20gb storage most our plans have in the Cloud may get used up pretty quickly requiring you to pay for more storage (or switch to the Cloud Based plan only and lose LR classic and Photoshop altogether.   

Quote from  https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-cc/using/migrate-to-lightroom-cc.html 

_(in relation to using this menu item) view the information in the Before You Begin dialog and click Continue. Before doing so, keep the following considerations in mind:_

_You can migrate a catalog only once._
_Once you migrate a catalog, Lightroom automatically syncs all your images to the cloud. The catalog no longer syncs in earlier versions of Lightroom, such as Lightroom 6 or Lightroom 2015. The sync functionality is available in Lightroom or the latest version of Lightroom Classic._
I can't put my finger on other Adobe publications that describe this more fully, but when first announced there were several such documents explaining the ramifications of taking this approach.  As I recall several such articles (some may not have been from Adobe) used the "one way street" terminology or phrasing like "use this approach if you want to fully embrace the Cloud based ecosystm in lieu of LR Classic". 

I'm on the road right now so don't have the bandwidth to track down some of these articles.  Perhaps other on this thread can provide links


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## Jim Wilde (Jul 20, 2019)

Dan, your initial post talked about *syncing* all Classic files with the cloud, but I guess you really meant to advise the OP not to *migrate* the Classic catalog to the cloud. In that was your intention, then I agree with you. 

*Syncing* all Classic images to the cloud is no problem at all, many users do it whilst remaining mainly Classic-centred for most of their workflow. It's not a "slippery-slope leading to Cloudy-centred" thing, as your post implied.

*Migrating* is different (BTW, that "Migrate Lightroom Catalog" command is in Lightroom Desktop, not Lightroom Classic), and it was designed to allow existing Classic users to do a complete (and permanent) *switch* to Lightroom Cloud, i.e. the intention is/was that the migrated Classic catalog would then NOT be sync-enabled and used in an ongoing hybrid Classic/Cloud workflow. Of course, Classic users being what we are, some users tried to do just that and that often led to a certain amount of chaos within the Classic catalog, which is why the official advice is "Don't do that!".....and I'm in full agreement with that advice (having tested that migration scenario and ran into issues).


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## Califdan (Jul 20, 2019)

Yes.  Wrong official word.   Migrating was what I was referring to.   However, I suspect many readers may not be aware of that difference.  I should have been more clear.


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## cianmcliam (Jul 21, 2019)

Yes, I use Classic CC most of the time to import images and run things like panoramas and HDR merges. All the basic adjustments like exposure, contrast, colour, sharpness etc. I now do mostly on an iPad Pro 12.9 with LR Mobile. Remember, the Smart Previews are smaller DNG files, not jpg. I think they are about 4 megapixels in size, but seem to retain almost all of the flexibility of the original RAW file. I do most of the final exporting for printing and distributing back on LR Classic on my laptop. 

You can only sync one catalog with LR Mobile, so I created a brand new one and then used the 'import from another catalog' to bring in all the files I would be likely to be working on from other LR catalogs.


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## clee01l (Jul 21, 2019)

cianmcliam said:


> You can only sync one catalog with LR Mobile, so I created a brand new one and then used the 'import from another catalog' to bring in all the files I would be likely to be working on from other LR catalogs.


Lightroom (now classic) was designed as one catalog is all you  need.   I don't this this is likely to change as managing multiple catalogs in the cloud and sync'ing  would be a nightmare.


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## Umberto Cocca (Jul 23, 2019)

cianmcliam said:


> Remember, the Smart Previews are smaller DNG files, not jpg. I think they are about 4 megapixels in size, but seem to retain almost all of the flexibility of the original RAW file.



This is not true, smart previews ARE jpg representations (resized and compressed) of the raw file, with limited flexibility in terms of editing and color depth. In fact, an edited smart preview would update as sson as the original file is available.

Sent using Tapatalk


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## cianmcliam (Jul 23, 2019)

Umberto Cocca said:


> This is not true, smart previews ARE jpg representations (resized and compressed) of the raw file, with limited flexibility in terms of editing and color depth. In fact, an edited smart preview would update as sson as the original file is available.
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


The smart preview folders contains DNG files of the photos at about 4MP in size, I know because I lost a drive full of raw photos and the ones that had not backed up in my separate cloud storage were still available as DNG files in the smart preview cache. They are mini raw files, far more flexible than jpg.


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## clee01l (Jul 23, 2019)

cianmcliam said:


> They are mini raw files, far more flexible than jpg.


DNG is an image file specification.  It is based upon the TIFF/EP standard.  The parts of the DNG file specification are a data container and a wrapper that describes the contents of the container.   The Data Container can contain either RAW data or RGB pixel data.   It can be compressed or uncompressed.  If compressed it can use lossless or lossy algorithms.   Smart Previews are RGB not RAW DNGs.   They are resized to fit a fixed pixel size that is usually smaller that a modern high mp camera file.   I do not recall whether Adobe uses lossy or lossless compression for the Smart Previews but this Smart previews are suitable for rendering in the edit process but not for exporting or printing where the original size image should be utilized.   The Smart previews generated for the cloud are different from the Smart Previews generated on import.


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## Jim Wilde (Jul 23, 2019)

clee01l said:


> The Smart previews generated for the cloud are different from the Smart Previews generated on import.


I don't think that's correct.....if Smart Previews have already been created, e.g. on import, and the image is then synced from Classic, a new Smart Preview is not generated, instead the existing pre-built Smart Preview is uploaded to the cloud.


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## clee01l (Jul 23, 2019)

Jim Wilde said:


> I don't think that's correct.....if Smart Previews have already been created, e.g. on import, and the image is then synced from Classic, a new Smart Preview is not generated, instead the existing pre-built Smart Preview is uploaded to the cloud.


Perhaps I am mis remembering, but this is a fact that I attribute to an earlier conversation between us where you convinced me that local smart previews were not the same as smart DNGs sent to the cloud.


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## Johan Elzenga (Jul 23, 2019)

I believe Jim is right. The proof of this is that if you save metadata to files, and then sync these files, you will only upload keywords for those images that do not already have a smart preview.


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## clee01l (Jul 23, 2019)

Johan Elzenga said:


> I believe Jim is right. The proof of this is that if you save metadata to files, and then sync these files, you will only upload keywords for those images that do not already have a smart preview.


As Usual, he probably is and I'm an old fart with a poor memory.


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