# Tips for salvaging a difficult, low light shoot



## Replytoken (Dec 18, 2012)

I was recently asked to shoot a junior division roller derby bout, as the sport seems to be making a comeback among young women in the US.  I knew that lighting was not going to be optimal, but the rink was so poorly lit that I thought I was in a cave.  The light levels were so bad, and the young women were skating so fast, that the situation pushed me way out of my comfort zone for sports photography (primarily college football).  I needed to switch out my 70-200 f/2.8 for an 85 f/1.8 (a wider aperture, but slower focusing lens), and I had to push the ISO on my D300 to 3200 - a stop beyond what I am normally comfortable shooting (as use of flash was highly discouraged).  Needless to say, the keeper rate was lower than usual, and I am not happy with what I have to work with.  I know that I need to upgrade LR from 3.6 to 4.3, and that should help a bit with the noise, but I could also use some suggestions as to how to best salvage some acceptable images from these noisy raw files.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  I nroamlly do not shoot beyond ISO 1600 on the D300, so NR is not an issue that I normally have to address.

Thanks,

--Ken


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 18, 2012)

I think we might need to see a raw file or two Ken!


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## Replytoken (Dec 18, 2012)

Victoria Bampton said:


> I think we might need to see a raw file or two Ken!



Let me see if I can pull a sample file that does not show any faces of the skaters.  The skaters are minors, and I agreed that any images shot would not be distributed in any public manner without approval.  The derby is protective of the skaters, and their brand, and they like to handle the public distribution of any formal bout images.  I also shoot for a nonprofit agency that serves families and children, and while the issues around privacy are a bit different there, I am used to photographing under these types of arrangements.  It is sometimes challenging as a photographer when I want to share my work, but I completely understand, and respect, their requests.  I'll see if I can find an image that works.  Thanks for understanding.

--Ken


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 18, 2012)

Very sensible Ken.  If you can't find any that don't have faces, and you're comfortable sharing one directly with me, you're welcome to drop it on my server (www.vbftp.net, username webupload, password 123) which isn't public.


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## Replytoken (Dec 18, 2012)

Not to take my own thread OT, but I saw these two articles after posting, and thought that they dove-tailed on the privacy issue that I mentioned above:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-5...ays-it-now-has-the-right-to-sell-your-photos/

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/what-instagrams-new-terms-of-service-mean-for-you/

--Ken

P.S.  I decided to post this topic here for discussion so it can be discussed properly: http://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/showthread.php?18211-Interesting-Instagram-Articles .


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## Jimmsp (Dec 18, 2012)

Replytoken said:


> ..... but I could also use some suggestions as to how to best salvage some acceptable images from these noisy raw files.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  I normally do not shoot beyond ISO 1600 on the D300, so NR is not an issue that I normally have to address.



I sometimes shoot my grandkids in situations with v poor light; in fact I have one coming up later this week.
I use a Canon 60D and often have to shoot at ISO 6400 to get the right speed. My biggest issues always seem to be getting the colors and contrast "right".
One question - what do want to do with these shots; eg web viewing only, 4x6 prints ? It can make a difference.

For web viewing, I generally process jpegs to 800 px wide, and only use the noise reduction built into LR. Most people are quite happy with this. The photographer is the biggest critic.
I have also been successful at printing them into 4x6s by using Topaz deNoise followed by Detail as a final process step on a full size Tiff.

I also would be happy looking at a raw shot for you if you are comfortable with releasing it.
I'd also agree to only share the result with you if you prefer. We could use dropbox, for instance.

Jim


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## Replytoken (Dec 18, 2012)

Jimmsp said:


> One question - what do want to do with these shots; eg web viewing only, 4x6 prints ? It can make a difference.
> 
> For web viewing, I generally process jpegs to 800 px wide, and only use the noise reduction built into LR. Most people are quite happy with this. The photographer is the biggest critic.
> I have also been successful at printing them into 4x6s by using Topaz deNoise followed by Detail as a final process step on a full size Tiff.



Jim,

Normally, I assume that my images should be good enough for print, usually somewhere between 5x7 and 11x14.  But, I believe that these images will most likely be used for the web, and for distribution to the team members, who will probably view them on their phones or computers.  As I have been told that the next match is being held in another arena with much better lighting, I am assuming that if printed images are needed, they can be selected from this later match.  So, it is not unreasonable for me to be a bit less critical since the images will most likely not be viewed in print form.

--Ken


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## Replytoken (Dec 18, 2012)

Victoria Bampton said:


> Very sensible Ken. If you can't find any that don't have faces, and you're comfortable sharing one directly with me, you're welcome to drop it on my server (www.vbftp.net, username webupload, password 123) which isn't public.



Thanks for understanding, Victoria.  I will see if there is an acceptable shot for posting.  If not, I will probably play around with LR's NR features.  If that is not satisfactory, then I will give a shout out.  I hate shooting outside of my comfort zone, but as I accepted this request as a favor, there was not much else I coudl do.  Thankfully, they have no specific expectations.  And, they fully understood that the lighting was less than ideal, so nobody is expecting a miracle.

--Ken


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## Jimmsp (Dec 18, 2012)

Ken,
I'm pretty sure that my ISO 6400 Topaz processed shots could be printed 5x7 and 8x10.  I just never tried.
Jim


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## Replytoken (Dec 19, 2012)

Jimmsp said:


> Ken,
> I'm pretty sure that my ISO 6400 Topaz processed shots could be printed 5x7 and 8x10. I just never tried.
> Jim



This is encouraging news, Jim.

Thanks,

--Ken


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## Bryan Conner (Dec 19, 2012)

One trick that can help noisy high iso images is to adjust your noise reduction settings in Lightroom to reduce the noise.  Often, these images will be a bit soft or slightly "plastic looking, you can add a bit of film grain back to the image to give it a bit of structure and the image will look better in print.  You have to find the right balance between noise reduction and added grain, but a lot of images can be "saved" like this.


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## bobrobert (Dec 19, 2012)

I am a d300 user who has shot at iso 3200 and I can assure you that your images are salvageable in the right hands with LR or PS.


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## Replytoken (Dec 19, 2012)

Bryan Conner said:


> One trick that can help noisy high iso images is to adjust your noise reduction settings in Lightroom to reduce the noise. Often, these images will be a bit soft or slightly "plastic looking, you can add a bit of film grain back to the image to give it a bit of structure and the image will look better in print. You have to find the right balance between noise reduction and added grain, but a lot of images can be "saved" like this.



Bryan,

I hope to have some time this weekend to play around with some of the images.  I am hopeful that I can find the right balance, as I hate to rely on being "artistic" to salvage less than optimal images, although a touch of "grain" for a film-like look might not be the end of the world.

--Ken


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## Replytoken (Dec 19, 2012)

bobrobert said:


> I am a d300 user who has shot at iso 3200 and I can assure you that your images are salvageable in the right hands with LR or PS.



It sounds like you are much more comfortable with a D300 at 3200 than me.  Any general words of wisdom when using LR to post-process?

--Ken


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## bobrobert (Dec 20, 2012)

I don't do anything that is unique. I look at the image at 100% and reduce first the luminosity noise and then the colour in LR. In PS you can use layers and reduce noise to different levels by using masking. Previous posters have given good advice. The reason for my reply was to point out that the images shot with 3200 iso on the d300 aren't beyond being saved just in case you were thinking of deleting them.


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## Replytoken (Dec 20, 2012)

bobrobert said:


> I don't do anything that is unique. I look at the image at 100% and reduce first the luminosity noise and then the colour in LR. In PS you can use layers and reduce noise to different levels by using masking. Previous posters have given good advice. The reason for my reply was to point out that the images shot with 3200 iso on the d300 aren't beyond being saved just in case you were thinking of deleting them.



I am slow to delete most things; just ask my wife about my piles of clutter!   Actually, I have a friend who is quite good with PS, and i have seen him work miracles on some pretty marginal images, so I imagine that there is some hope for these files.  But since I do not have PS, I am relying on LR to come to the rescue.  Or at least make a vailant attempt.

--Ken


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## Jimmsp (Dec 21, 2012)

Replytoken said:


> I am slow to delete most things; just ask my wife about my piles of clutter!   Actually, I have a friend who is quite good with PS, and i have seen him work miracles on some pretty marginal images, so I imagine that there is some hope for these files.  But since I do not have PS, I am relying on LR to come to the rescue.  Or at least make a vailant attempt.
> 
> --Ken



Take a look at the Topaz DeNoise. It works as a plugin to Lightroom (and PS) and it will do wonders. Besides, they are having a great end of year sale right now. I find it great for all shots I want to print.


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## Replytoken (Dec 21, 2012)

Jimmsp said:


> Take a look at the Topaz DeNoise. It works as a plugin to Lightroom (and PS) and it will do wonders. Besides, they are having a great end of year sale right now. I find it great for all shots I want to print.



Will do.  Thanks for the tip.

--Ken


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