# Feeling the Need to Reorganize...



## Bill Ballard (Dec 19, 2019)

...the question is, what's the best way to go about it.

My reason for this is, effective January 2020, I will be greatly reducing the work I create for others and greatly increasing the work I do for myself. Hopefully. The issue is, my OCD personality traits want for me to keep everything separated...but as I understand it, starting a new catalog isn't the best way to do this. 

What is the best, or at lest the most efficient way to go about a reorganization?

Thanks much!


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## Jimmsp (Dec 19, 2019)

Bill Ballard said:


> ...the question is, what's the best way to go about it.
> 
> My reason for this is, effective January 2020, I will be greatly reducing the work I create for others and greatly increasing the work I do for myself. Hopefully. The issue is, my OCD personality traits want for me to keep everything separated...but as I understand it, starting a new catalog isn't the best way to do this.
> 
> What is the best, or at lest the most efficient way to go about a reorganization?



I maintain a personal catalog, called "all photos". These are all my photos that I take, process, and share with the world. I have over 140,000 photos in this catalog.
I have also been webmaster for our local photo club for a few years. As such, I receive a lot of photos from others that I really don't post process except to resize, and post some on Flickr. 
As such, I created a 2nd catalog specifically for club photos. I have over 5,000 photos in this catalog.
The key words i have for these rarely overlap my personal - such as Jun 2017 Contest.

It is easy to to separate the photos and the catalogs.
I do advise people who are just starting out in LR not to have a catalog for every year, or travel event. 

But in your case, I see no disadvantage in having 2 separate catalogs - business and personal. And the advantage will be not to accidentally mix up photos from the business with the personal.


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## Califdan (Dec 19, 2019)

I have to counter Jimmsp's suggestion for having a catalog per year.  This is quite opposite best practices.  LR Classic (among other things) is a DAM (Digital Asset Management) system.  In other words it is used to manage your images.   And, in turn the word "manage" has several implications such as avoid duplicates, keep track of what you have and be able to find what you want easily and efficiently.   In order for it to do this, all those images must be in one catalog.  If, following Jimmsp's suggestion, you have one catalog per year, then you have to do the first part of finding images yourself by remembering which year a particular image of interest was taken before you can even start using LR.  It also prevents you from, for example, seeing all the images of Fred which were taken over many years.  In other words you would be eliminating quite a bit of the value of LR.

However, there are some very valid reasons to have more than one catalog.  For example, if you are a professional photographer who does event or studio photography where the only audience of the images is the person who paid you to take them - you may want to have a Business catalog and a Personal catalog.   Another example is a his and her catalog if your mate also photographs and when you return from a trip you both want to get to your photos at the same time on different computers.  Or, as in the case Jimmsp mentioned, you have your own work but also you are providing a service for someone else - in his case his camera club.  

However, these cases are somewhat isolated and in many cases can be done in a single catalog just as well.  For example, I am a photography instructor and students send me photos all the time.  Yet, I only have one catalog.   So, how do I keep their photos separate from mine?  

1)  I have a folder structure with "#Master Photos" as it's highest level.  Under that I have a folder for each year, then each shoot within the year.   Also under that "#Master Photos" parent I have a folder called "Student Photos" and within that a folder for each student.

2)  I have a special keyword in LR, called "shot by others" and I I tag all photos not taken by me with that keyword.  One can also use collections in a similar manner.

So for you it  depends on what you mean by "work for others".  If those are images that you'll never want to do anything with other than keep available in case the "other" wants to buy some more of them and you would not use for your own enjoyment (enter in competitions, sell to others, show off in exhibits, etc.) then I'd go with 2 catalogs - one for you and one for "work".  However, if those photos do showcase your skills, or you may wish to use or show them as part of your hobby then I'd go with one catalog and use some combination of folders, collections, and/or keywords to identify which group individual photos belong to.

Dan


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## Jimmsp (Dec 19, 2019)

Califdan said:


> I have to counter Jimmsp's suggestion for having a catalog per year.  This is quite opposite best practices.  .......
> 
> Dan


Please read my post before you disparage my comment.
I said : I do advise people who are just starting out in LR *not *to have a catalog for every year, or travel event. 
Emphasis on the "not"


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## Califdan (Dec 19, 2019)

Sorry,  Must have read it too fast.  Apologies.


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 19, 2019)

Bill Ballard said:


> My reason for this is, effective January 2020, I will be greatly reducing the work I create for others and greatly increasing the work I do for myself. Hopefully. The issue is, my OCD personality traits want for me to keep everything separated...but as I understand it, starting a new catalog isn't the best way to do this.



FWIW, my OCD traits would go the same way! Having everything in a single catalog is best practice, but there is an argument for splitting work vs. personal into separate catalogs, as long as there's never any overlap. 

So I would think further about what you mean by "work I create for others". For example, if I'm photographing weddings for a living, I don't really want those in with my family photos so I'd put those in a single work catalog. On the other hand, I was photographing friends weddings, then there would be overlap with personal and that would stay in a single catalog. As a rule of thumb, use as few catalogs as possible, but that might occasionally be two instead of one.


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## Paul_DS256 (Dec 19, 2019)

Bill Ballard said:


> starting a new catalog isn't the best way to do this


Nope. I chose that route. I think I would have been better off just reorganizing my photo file structure from within LR.

As to the number, I'm not a professional and find one catalog sufficient especially when you consider being able to search all your photos in one place.


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## clee01l (Dec 19, 2019)

I’ve always maintained that you only ever need one catalog for everything. The one exception to that rule is when business requirements insist upon the segregation of client data into separate catalog.
To paraphrase Tolkien: “One catalog to rule them all, one catalog to find them...”
Separate catalogs for personal and business data, certainly qualifies as a business exception to one catalog.

Syncing to the Adobe cloud gets complicated as you can only have one Classic catalog at a time being sync’d.   Reorganization and starting with a new catalog will cause Lightroom (cloudy) to remove every file that is currently synced and sync files in the new catalog even if they are the same images


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## Bill Ballard (Dec 19, 2019)

Hmmm...interesting. I gave some thought, in the wee hours this morning as I lay awake, to trying to reorganize the existing folders within my single catalog. I've sort of done that in the past, on a much smaller scale, when I changed a folder name without thinking of the consequences. Fortunately, I was able to mend the problems it caused, but that is partly my basis for thinking another, separate catalog my be better.

It's quite unlikely I would have any overlap in images. The bulk of work I do for clients is business portraits/headshots, location and event photography, and the like. My personal work is mostly landscape/seascape, travel/documentary/street; additionally, the numbering system I use for my personal work is different than that for client work. And, the client work will be winding down after January 1.

I hadn't considered the synching issue with Adobe cloud, however. That seems a significant argument against a second catalog, if I understand correctly.

Thanks again to all -


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## LouieSherwin (Dec 19, 2019)

If you are interested in a deep dive into organizational strategies that can be used in Lightroom then I highly recommend Peter Krogh's eBook Organizing Your Photos with Lightroom 5. (Still applies to every version since then)

Peter has been writing about, lecturing on, and practicing digital asset management (DAM) since he started using digital cameras almost 20 years ago. This book is a compilation of the best practices that he has developed over the years and how to specifically implement them using Lightroom. It includes dozens of video tutorials that demonstrate every aspect of the strategies that he describes. 

Once you understand the purpose and implementation of various strategies you can use those that best apply to your needs.

-louie


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## Bill Ballard (Dec 21, 2019)

LouieSherwin said:


> If you are interested in a deep dive into organizational strategies that can be used in Lightroom then I highly recommend Peter Krogh's eBook Organizing Your Photos with Lightroom 5. (Still applies to every version since then)
> 
> Peter has been writing about, lecturing on, and practicing digital asset management (DAM) since he started using digital cameras almost 20 years ago. This book is a compilation of the best practices that he has developed over the years and how to specifically implement them using Lightroom. It includes dozens of video tutorials that demonstrate every aspect of the strategies that he describes.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this info!

For those who may be a bit curious, I've decided to stay with a single catalog. I spent a bit of time 'tidying' my existing files and folders in the existing catalog and now feel I have my client work better organized and in folders which shouldn't cause any issues/conflicts with my personal work.

However, one thing I hadn't considered is the fact I'll be shooting with a new Canon camera (Merry Christmas to me!) in the coming days. The new camera will begin the file numbering system with 0001 or something to that effect. I do have a slight concern that during the import of images from the new camera, LR will see a Canon RAW file numbered 0100 from the new camera, and treat it as a 'suspected duplicate image,' as I'm sure there is already a Canon RAW file numbered 0100 in the catalog. Or, will LR differentiate that while there are two identical file numbers, they're from different cameras and therefore not treat the new camera file as a suspected duplicate? I'm quite certain I can set the file numbering in the new camera to begin at a point of my choosing, but I found this to be an interesting question.

Thanks again!


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 21, 2019)

Bill Ballard said:


> I do have a slight concern that during the import of images from the new camera, LR will see a Canon RAW file numbered 0100 from the new camera, and treat it as a 'suspected duplicate image,' as I'm sure there is already a Canon RAW file numbered 0100 in the catalog.


Nothing to worry about there, Lightroom uses multiple factors (name, capture date and file size) to determine duplicates.


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## Bill Ballard (Dec 21, 2019)

Victoria Bampton said:


> Nothing to worry about there, Lightroom uses multiple factors (name, capture date and file size) to determine duplicates.



Thank you...and...I also completely forgot I can rename the files before importing...


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## clee01l (Dec 21, 2019)

Victoria Bampton said:


> Nothing to worry about there, Lightroom uses multiple factors (name, capture date and file size) to determine duplicates.


As well as Camera make/model and maybe S/N(?).


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## clee01l (Dec 21, 2019)

Bill Ballard said:


> Thank you...and...I also completely forgot I can rename the files before importing...


That is probably the one thing that LR does not use when checking for duplicates. Duplicates with different file names  can be recognized in the import process.  Note that the import process looks at the file that comes off of the camera card BEFORE any LR renaming process occurs. 

Renaming files imported into LR is IMO unnecessary and overused.   I've never renamed a file on import and I have had  at least 7 different cameras  not including phones and other peoples photos.  Many of which have more than 10000 images (causing the file names to repeat).  "IMG_nnnn" is the most unimaginative file name to start.  In the camera you can set up a unique file name modifying the first 3-4 characters to reflect the camera make/model


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 21, 2019)

clee01l said:


> In the camera you can set up a unique file name modifying the first 3-4 characters to reflect the camera make/model


Only in some cameras, definitely not in all.


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## clee01l (Dec 21, 2019)

Johan Elzenga said:


> Only in some cameras, definitely not in all.



Maybe not all, but certainly not enough. Every modern Camera that I’ve owned (Pentax, Nikon, Fuji) and Canon offer this 


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 21, 2019)

clee01l said:


> Maybe not all, but certainly not enough. Every modern Camera that I’ve owned (Pentax, Nikon, Fuji) and Canon offer this
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


How about the device you used to send this reply, for example?


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## clee01l (Dec 21, 2019)

Johan Elzenga said:


> How about the device you used to send this reply, for example?



I don’t consider my iPhone/iPadPro a “real” camera 



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## Philippe Coudé du Foresto (Dec 21, 2019)

Cletus, just curious : if someone you send a photo to ask you to resend the file (or a second print of the photo), how do you identify the file "img-0128" if there is 3 files with that name in your catalog ?


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## clee01l (Dec 21, 2019)

Philippe Coudé du Foresto said:


> Cletus, just curious : if someone you send a photo to ask you to resend the file (or a second print of the photo), how do you identify the file "img-0128" if there is 3 files with that name in your catalog ?



I use keywords, collections, ratings and flags and sometimes capture date to find anything in LR. If I ever need to resort to a visual scan of the thumbnails in a grid or list, then I have not been using LR efficiently. I may have 10 or more files with the same name. Some may be derivatives that were imported after export but these usually hav a JPG extension. 
If I sent the file out of LR, I did it from a Publish service. (I export no other way). That file will show in the Publish Service with a Publish Date and all I need to do once found is re-publish.


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## Philippe Coudé du Foresto (Dec 21, 2019)

Thks Cletus. Id didn't thought of the publish service (which I use a lot). However, I don't think they could be a solution in my case. I don't keep a copy of the exported files. Is B ask me a photo he saw at A's, I have to re-export it to send to B. If I wer using pulish for that, if the C ask me for the same photo he saw at A's, the publish date would be useless because it would no longer be the date I send to A. Keywords are useful, but enough. If I have almost identical photo (taken at few seconds interval), they might have exactly the same keywords. If, three years later, I'm requested to resend a photo of the blue whale flucking taken on July 3rd 2016, and I have 3 photos of this specific flucking, it will be difficult to identify precisely which one to resend.


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## clee01l (Dec 21, 2019)

Philippe Coudé du Foresto said:


> Thks Cletus. Id didn't thought of the publish service (which I use a lot). However, I don't think they could be a solution in my case. I don't keep a copy of the exported files. Is B ask me a photo he saw at A's, I have to re-export it to send to B. If I wer using pulish for that, if the C ask me for the same photo he saw at A's, the publish date would be useless because it would no longer be the date I send to A. Keywords are useful, but enough. If I have almost identical photo (taken at few seconds interval), they might have exactly the same keywords. If, three years later, I'm requested to resend a photo of the blue whale flucking taken on July 3rd 2016, and I have 3 photos of this specific flucking, it will be difficult to identify precisely which one to resend.


Three photos of  the same subject take on the same date will have three different file names (that may correspond to other file names with the same camera generated filename. )  Other files with this name won't be in the subject collection of Whales. So perhaps your Smart Collection  returns these three similar files (with different file names). If they all have  the same keywords shot on the same day AND were all published in the Same Publish Service. Then and only then you might need to resort to file name to determine which specific file to choose from the Smart Collection or Metadata Filter.   But at least you narrowed it down to 3 files out of many with that file name.   Most of the time file name is not critical to the criteria used in the Smart Collection.   If it is , then and only then you can use File Names as one of the Smart Collection criteria.
Publish Service maintains a history entry for every time  an image gets published or republished.   So when I publish for A, Publish Again for B, there will be two entries  perhaps with different develop steps (crops perhaps) in between.   By clicking on the correct publish date in history, you can republish the exact image for C that you sent to A.

The Publish Service is simply a smarter way to Export as there is a date associated with the Published export.  All the only derivative (exported) file is at the destination.  If the Destination is a local folder, you can delete the contents of that folder knowing that you can recreate more identical files  whenever, IF ever you need them.


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## Philippe Coudé du Foresto (Dec 22, 2019)

Thanks Cletus. I see what you mean. Very interesting. Using a publish service to disk just for the "one time" exports (for which I won't keep the exported files) is an interesting idea.


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## clee01l (Dec 22, 2019)

Philippe Coudé du Foresto said:


> Thanks Cletus. I see what you mean. Very interesting. Using a publish service to disk just for the "one time" exports (for which I won't keep the exported files) is an interesting idea.



It solved the problem I had of knowing if I had ever exported an image “anywhere” and knowing which rendition of the image I did export on what date. 


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## Bill Ballard (Dec 19, 2019)

...the question is, what's the best way to go about it.

My reason for this is, effective January 2020, I will be greatly reducing the work I create for others and greatly increasing the work I do for myself. Hopefully. The issue is, my OCD personality traits want for me to keep everything separated...but as I understand it, starting a new catalog isn't the best way to do this. 

What is the best, or at lest the most efficient way to go about a reorganization?

Thanks much!


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## LouieSherwin (Dec 22, 2019)

With due respect for Cletus's methods and techniques, I am firmly in the rename on import camp. By using something simple such as LASTNAME_YYYYMMDD_NNNN.ext, I end up with a unique name for every photo in my archive. By keeping the file name component as part of every derivative the inheritance of any image is always completely clear. This includes history of all versions in all backups. 

Since it is part of my import presets I don't think about it at all, its just a automatic part of my workflow. I have only had one instance when this naming scheme had to be adjusted and that was when I was doing a multi-body shoot of my nieces's wedding and the sequence numbers overlapped.  It also just as well with all of the useful techniques that Cletus describes in his workflow. 

-louie


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