# Tone and Presence Sliders out of Synch after Editing in CS5



## Ollie (Jun 30, 2013)

My Tone and Presence sliders have gone out of control when I save after final editing in CS5.  PSD copies shown in LTR are greatly overexposed and slider positions bear little resemblance to where I had put them in my original processing.  This is a sudden development, beginning only yesterday after I had been working on this folder for several days. 
To begin:  From an external HD I imported DNG files (originally RAW files from a Canon 5D MarkIII) into LTR4, color-coded those meriting processing, and set up a collection.   I'm not sure if LTR4 automatically set itself at Process 2012 at the time of import, but once I became aware of that issue I verified that it was on that setting.  I open images one at a time in LTR4, adjust with sliders plus enable lens profile corrections and remove chromatic aberrations. Then I choose Edit in CS5 where I may make slight adjustments in levels and perhaps clone out any undesirable element. Then I save as a PSD.  Yesterday after reading about "Render using Lightroom" versus "Open Anyway" I reset all warning dialogues in LTR to ensure I got the reminder each time, and I'm now sure to click on "Render using Lightroom."  
However, the PSD images saved in LTR4 are very over-exposed, very misleading representations of what's on file in CS5.  One example, starting with a somewhat underexposed file:
*Adjustments made to DNG file, using Process 2012 with Render using LTR:*

Exposure:      +1.43                                        
Clarity:          +24
Vibrance:       +12                                           
Enable profile corrections: checked                     
Remove chromatic aberrations: checked                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
*PSD version after CS5 editing and saving:*

Exposure: +0.95  (judging from the appearance, this seems to be an additional boost added to the proper exposure already achieved in the DNG)      
Contrast:       -25(none applied to original DNG file)
Whites:         +36 (none applied to original DNG file)
Blacks:          +1(none applied to original DNG file. Sliding settings in the PSDs vary widely, but almost all have a Blacks setting of +1.)
Profile corrections unchecked
Remove chromatic aberrations unchecked
I also did tests with the same image using Process 2010 with Render using LTR, Process 2012 with Open Anyway, and Process 2010 withOpen Anyway.  In all cases the PSD images appearing in LTR, either in the Library or the Develop modes, are very over-exposed.  If I export these PSD files to a new folder and open them in CS5 they appear properly exposed and processed as they should be, but the images saved to a new folder in LTR4 are distorted in exposure and color.  Neither the LTR thumbnails nor the full-screen versions are of any value for purposes of evaluation.       
Related but minor question:  Does Render using Lightroom Process alwaysresult in adding "Edit" to the file name?  Is there any way to avoid that?                                                                           
I don't know where to begin to rectify the problem described above and would welcome any guidance. 
Best wishes,
Ollie


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## Tom75 (Jun 30, 2013)

Hi,

sorry I´m not able to help you with this but just wanted to mention that I had a while ago exactly the same situation after editing in photoshop.

In addition I have now also this content aware bug mentioned in the other thread but it seems nobody has an answer for this as well.

Regards,
Tom


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## Jim Wilde (Jun 30, 2013)

All the sliders should be a zero on the PSD, so it may be that you have some setting enabled which is causing this. 

When you use "Render using Lightroom" the PSD is created immediately by Lightroom and can be seen in the filmstrip even while CS5 is opening. So before doing any work in PS, can you select the PSD in Lightroom and check the slider position in Develop....they should be all zero. Are they? 

If they are all zero, then make some adjustments in PS, and then "Save", and presumably the sliders will no longer be at zero? Even though they still should be....so in that case go check the "Auto-tone" setting at the top of the Presets Tab on your Lightroom Preferences, is it checked or unchecked?

The "-edit" is the default file-naming suffix whenever you use "Edit in Lightroom" and create a Tiff or PSD. It's not specifically related to the "Render using Lightroom" option. You can change it using the template editor at the bottom of the External Editing tab of the Preferences dialog.

P.S. It would be helpful if you updated your profile.


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## Ollie (Jun 30, 2013)

Jim:  Thanks for the reminder about the profile.  I've updated it.  Now if I could just figure out how to make my "Enter" key move me down to a new line in this thread my messages might be easier to read.  So was all my problem caused by the fact that the "Auto Tone" box in the Presets Tab was checked?  I've now unchecked it, and have processed two images without a problem.  (What's the purpose of the Auto Tone setting?  I assume it must have been set by default since I doubt I would have checked it without knowing what it does.)  I always start by making my adjustments in the DNG copy before moving to CS5 for final edits on the PSD copy.  Is there some reason to do the initial LTR adjustments on the PSD copy before moving it to CS5?  Thanks for the explanation on how to remove the "-edit" from the file name.  Best wishes, Ollie


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## Ollie (Jul 1, 2013)

Jim:  Just when I thought everything was fine I seem to have a new problem.  PSD images that I now open in Photoshop CS5 are significantly more somber, less warm, than the PSD image when it is shown in LTR.  (LTR shows PSD slider settings at zero.)  When I look at the two images, DNG and PSD, side-by-side in LTR they appear identical, but when I open CS5 to look at the PSD it clearly is not the same.  I looked at the CS5 Preferences and see that Color Picker is set at Adobe (not Windows).  HUD Color Picker (what's that?) is set at Hue Strip.  I haven't changed any preference settings in recent days, so I don't know why this problem should suddenly start to appear.  Can you come up with another explanation for this anomaly?  Many thanks.  Ollie


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## Jim Wilde (Jul 1, 2013)

Ollie, I really have no idea why the PSD should appear differently in PS than it does in LR. Those two PS settings you mentioned will have no effect on the issue (they're the same as mine, so I would think are defaults). The Colour Settings are far more likely to effect the appearance of the image, but if they are wrong the first edit of the DNG into PS would presumably show the same problem. For the record, these are my settings:




When you edit the PSD in PS, you should initially receive a different dialog box....can you confirm what option you are selecting?

One further thing to check would be your preferences on the External Editing tab of the Preferences....what Color Space are you using for your PSDs?

Going back to your previous post, I wasn't really understanding what you meant in your final question. Although I don't use PS very much at all, my normal procedure is to do all my Lightroom work first on the Raw file, and only then do I use "Edit in PS" which creates the rendered file (Tiff in my case), do what I need to do in PS, save back to LR....and that's usually it. I can't recall ever needing to send my Tiff back to PS for further work.


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## Ollie (Jul 5, 2013)

Jim:  I've delayed replying because I was getting inconsistent performance in PS CS5, but it seems to have stabilized the last 2-3 days, with my initial problem (darker, somber color in the PS version on screen) having disappeared.  Hopefully the problem will not arise again.  The disturbing thing is that it occurred, went away, occurred again, went away, never with any apparent reason.  
As for your question, "When you edit the PSD in PS, you should initially receive a different dialog box....can you confirm what option you are selecting?" I didn't understand it.

But for the second question ("One further thing to check would be your preferences on the External Editing tab of the Preferences....what Color Space are you using for your PSDs?") I use ProPhoto RGB.

As for "Going back to your previous post, I wasn't really understanding what you meant in your final question. Although I don't use PS very much at all, my normal procedure is to do all my Lightroom work first on the Raw file, and only then do I use "Edit in PS" which creates the rendered file (Tiff in my case), do what I need to do in PS, save back to LR....and that's usually it. I can't recall ever needing to send my Tiff back to PS for further work."[/QUOTE], I follow your workflow too.  What I meant in my earlier remark was that you had shown me that since a PSD copy also opens in LTR when I choose the "Edit in PS" option, I could skip over the DNG image, leaving all sliders at zero, and go to work immediately on the PSD file in LTR, but I decided that didn't make any sense.  So as near as I can tell, my workflow follows yours.  I make minor levels adjustments in CS5 and may clone out undesirable items if necessary, but this is all after doing probably 90-95% of my work in LTR.                   There is one other anomaly that is occurring, but it doesn't affect the color of the file and it's only a nuisance.  After completing my edits in CS5 and saving and closing the file I then minimize CS5 so as to return to the LTR screen lying underneath.  Most of the time PS CS5 does not totally disappear.  A horizontal bar about one-inch wide remains across the top of the LTR window, interfering with the view.  To get rid of it I have to move from the LTR Develop mode back to the Library mode.  Then the PS remnant goes away.  This is a nuisance, but doesn't seem to have any impact on the image file.  Have you heard of this problem before?  Many thanks.  Ollie.


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## Jim Wilde (Jul 5, 2013)

Ollie said:


> As for your question, "When you edit the PSD in PS, you should initially receive a different dialog box....can you confirm what option you are selecting?" I didn't understand it.



What I meant was that a different dialog box is presented when you choose "Edit in..." on a rendered file (Tiff, PSD, Jpeg) instead of on a Raw file. With an ACR mis-match on a Raw file, you get this dialog box which we've already discussed:



However, if you use "Edit in..." on a rendered file, you should get this dialog box:



And I was just curious as to what you normally selected if you subsequently pass your PSD back to PS? I just wondered if it may have had an impact on the problem.

Regarding your horizontal bar, that sounds like a classic video driver issue. Is it up-to-date?


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## Ollie (Jul 23, 2013)

Jim:  No PS color problems of late.  Hopefully whatever caused them will not recur.  Concerning your question,
Regarding your horizontal bar, that sounds like a classic video driver issue. Is it up-to-date?[/QUOTE], I purchased my current desktop in April, so everything should be pretty up to date, but how would I know?  Thanks, Ollie


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## Jim Wilde (Jul 23, 2013)

You go to the video driver manufacturer's web-site and compare their latest version number with the version that you currently have installed.


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