# New Laptop coming at $2300 expense due to programming issue with LR



## jjlad (Mar 10, 2021)

Been having issues with LR crashing my computer when exporting files. It pins the CPU at 100% and then the temperatures of the CPU, GPU and Motheboard all start rising fast to 100 degrees Celsius and above and the laptop crashes totally. It appears this has irrevocably damaged my computer CPU and possibly other components.

I used to be able to take a combination of say 1000 jpg, nef and tiff images from a given month, and export them all as jpgs with all edits, into a new sub folders for each day, called "Archived jpgs". I would set the export to simultaneously import them back into the catalog. On completion I would delete all the selected images and then daily folder by daily folder ...move the new ones into the original folders and delete the Archived Jpgs folders. That part went pretty quick.

A week or so ago that process started to slow down dramatically. The import into the catalog portion would almost suspend while the export was going on and after the export completed ...would import one photo every 3 seconds or so. The archived photos are only 4-6 mb in size so LR was importing them at less than 2 mb per second. Really painful.

I changed the export preset to export only and selected only 50-100 photos at a time but that still heats up the laptop to where the CPU is at 100% and 100c and the GPU is at 95-100c and the mainboard is at 95c, but for shorter periods. After exporting I import all the photos created, and that happens in the time it was taking to import 2 or 3 photos with the “Add to Catalog” option checked. Then I delete all the originals then folder by folder ...move the new ones into the original folders and delete the Archived Jpgs folders. I also have my laptop resting on a frozen cooler ice pack to help get cooler air into the fans. That is helping but still, if I try the Export/Import combination my system still crashes.

My existing laptop isn't poorly spec'd:

HP Envy 17" with 2.40 gigahertz Intel Core i7-4700MQ
Windows 10 Home 19041.804
16g ram (that's max)
1 TB SSD plus 1TB HDD
Intel(R) HD Graphics 4600 [Display adapter]
NVIDIA GeForce GT 740M [Display adapter] (good at the time but impossible with latest Adobe program updates)
The laptop ram and SSD upgrades were done to help LR and Photoshop work better. The laptop itself was an upgrade from an earlier Presario, solely to handle LR and PS better and thanks to ever more performance defeating editions of PS and LR, the Graphics card is no longer powerful enough to even process Select and Mask in Photoshop, despite Sky Replacement working instantly! 

I searched online and got nothing but very bad news about this so I had a technician (who comes Lysol sprayer in hand, masked and with new rubber gloves).
He confirmed my fan and cooling ducts were clean and made sure nothing else was running other than my Performance Monitor. He then watched me try an export using the Add to Catalog option.
The laptop totally crashed 1 minute into it. 

The tech informed me if I wanted to continue using LR in batch mode like that I'd have to get a new laptop because the existing one has suffered irreparable damage and further use like that would probably fry it totally. He said with the repetition of doing that batch processing in LR the damage became cumulative and the processor would never perform to its full capability again. He said there is no sense spending $500-$700 to repair a 5yr old laptop. 

HP told me flat out that running a CPU at 100% is not recommended. Doing so repeatedly would certainly lead to premature processor failure.

So thanks to Adobe programming Lightroom to pin the CPU at 100%, it is necessary for me to buy a new laptop.
I ordered a 17" HP OMEN with NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 graphics, 16g DDR4 ram and a very intensive cooling system. It is also $2300 including tax and a 3 year service and damage warranty (refundable if not used). 

I've read some other threads on this where Guru’s reported that Adobe decided to program LR to use 100% of the CPU for exports BECAUSE USERS WANT THIS.
So I guess I'm confused as to who to thank for having to spend all this money ...Adobe or Lightroom users who like to run with their CPU's pinned and just haven't YET suffered catastrophic CPU degradation because of it. To all those I say "Thanks folks, hope the same thing happens to you!"


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## Paul_DS256 (Mar 10, 2021)

Sorry to hear about your problems jjlad but would like to share I found a number of Google items where overheating problems with the HP Envy 17 was mentioned but not related to Adobe. So, LrC exports may have been a trigger but not the problem. Window 10 was also mentioned in one article about causing 100% CPU coming out of sleep.  I'm not sure the tech did a thorough enough examination. You didn't mentioned if he found anything the Event Manager.

I mention this so you can double check you new configuration to avoid similar problems in the future. It sounds like it may be better with "...v_ery intensive cooling system_".

Good luck.


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## Replytoken (Mar 11, 2021)

I am sorry to hear about your laptop problems.  It is  not clear that the problem is not due to a hardware issue, but with respect to LR, it seems like you are doing a lot of exporting and importing and my question to you would be is that necessary?  I could not fully follow your explanation above, but there generally is little reason to export jpeg files and then reimport them back into LR (if I understand your workflow correctly).  This seems like a lot of unnecessary wear and tear and you may want to look at your workflow to see if it can be streamlined so you so not need to put your new laptop through  the same level of performance.

Good luck,

--Ken


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## Hal P Anderson (Mar 11, 2021)

From your description of the symptoms your PC has exhibited, it sounds like what happens when the interior of the machine has a dust build-up. That is a common cause of overheating.


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## jjlad (Mar 11, 2021)

Replytoken said:


> I am sorry to hear about your laptop problems.  It is  not clear that the problem is not due to a hardware issue, but with respect to LR, it seems like you are doing a lot of exporting and importing and my question to you would be is that necessary?  I could not fully follow your explanation above, but there generally is little reason to export jpeg files and then reimport them back into LR (if I understand your workflow correctly).  This seems like a lot of unnecessary wear and tear and you may want to look at your workflow to see if it can be streamlined so you so not need to put your new laptop through  the same level of performance.
> 
> Good luck,



Thanks for the reply. The reason for the exporting is so when I'm gone the family will still have the jpegs with all the edits baked in. They don't use LR and will never use the huge tiffs and unedited raw files. 
I kept upgrading the laptop to try and keep up with Adobe ...but that didn't work. The specs are still within the minimums Adobe says are needed.


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## jjlad (Mar 11, 2021)

Hal P Anderson said:


> From your description of the symptoms your PC has exhibited, it sounds like what happens when the interior of the machine has a dust build-up. That is a common cause of overheating.


Not at al Hal. It was virtually spotless because I'd remove the back panel and blow it out at least 3x per year. Ditto for the vents. That was the first thing the tech checked. As soon as he saw what was happening he diagnosed it as a heat-damaged processor and recommended the new machine. He said it would be a waste of money to do anything on the current one.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Mar 11, 2021)

Any properly designed computer should be able to run at 100% CPU without damage.  

Lightroom performance at times is awful, I agree with that statement.

But there are any number of programs that will run for a long time at 100% capacity.   A computer should be designed to support that.  If it isn't, the fault is in the computer not the program.

Also, this: "because the existing one has suffered irreparable damage and further use like that would probably fry it totally"

That to me sounds like nonsense.  What exactly was "irreparable" but wasn't already fried?    Was he specific? 

And: "HP told me flat out that running a CPU at 100% is not recommended. Doing so repeatedly would certainly lead to premature processor failure."

CPU's and associated electronics have some lifetime.   Just like almost any electronic or mechanical system which has a lifetime, the more stress you put on it, the faster the lifetime is consumed.  So the statement is correct, but I think misleading, as you infer that you should never run it at 100%. Think of it more like a light bulb (old or new as you prefer).  The more you run them, the sooner they will burn out.  And indeed if you run them at less power they last longer as well.  Doesn't mean they are not designed to run at full brightness.  

There are exceptions: Overclocking, and blocking airflow.  Both are user errors.  I'm not suggesting you did either one  by the way, my guess is it's a bad design from yet another company that tried too hard to make it compact, and not hard enough to make it stay cool.  

But I think you are wrong to blame Adobe.  No one wants a program that only runs 50% as fast as it can run.  I think all of us (maybe even you if this had not happened) would scream if that were true.


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## Califdan (Mar 11, 2021)

I assume you're not using any performance enhancers such as CPU clock speed boosters and the like.   

100% capacity just means that the CPU's have no idle time waiting for disk I/O or user input.   CPU's run at a determined clock speed while they have something to do, but in most cases they don't do it very long as they usually have to wait for some peripheral device to to something.   The only real time when a CPU will run at 100% or an extensive period of time is when there is an endless loop.   (e.g.  Keep adding 1 to "X" untill X is less than 0, but if X gets up to 1000 reset it to 1 and continue).    Endless loops do happen in coding and used to be quite problematic but modern OS' s now detect them and abort the process if one goes on for more than a set period time.   In addiition almost all Hardware now have thermal protection technology that will shut down the system if the internal heat goes too high.  It's not clear why this didn't happen on your machine unless somthing like a virus got in there and disabled that technology.

So, it's not clear what might be causing your CPU to peg out at 100% but I would certainly think that an LR Export or Import process would not cause the issue as those operations are disk intensive and the CPU would be spending most of its time waiting for data to be read or written.


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## Paul_DS256 (Mar 11, 2021)

On over-heating, here's an example post on the HP Envy 17 issue 


> If you haven't fixed your laptop yet, don't bother with forums. This topic has been posted about fifty times and not once has the issue been resolved for anyone, including myself. The real issue is that HP decided to use a cheap, poorly made cooling system that doesn't truly work, and never will if you are playing video games. Save yourself the hassle and do what I did: buy a Tree New Bee Cooling Pad (or other cooling pad, that's just the one I bought and it works great).


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## clee01l (Mar 11, 2021)

jjlad said:


> Not at al Hal. It was virtually spotless because I'd remove the back panel and blow it out at least 3x per year. Ditto for the vents. That was the first thing the tech checked. As soon as he saw what was happening he diagnosed it as a heat-damaged processor and recommended the new machine. He said it would be a waste of money to do anything on the current one.


Overheating can also be caused on a laptop when the cooling vents are blocked.   The most common reasons for a blocked vent on a laptop is that they are used on a lap or proper up on a pillow.


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## Hal P Anderson (Mar 11, 2021)

clee01l said:


> Overheating can also be caused on a laptop when the cooling vents are blocked.


Or when the laptop's fan fails.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Mar 11, 2021)

Califdan said:


> I assume you're not using any performance enhancers such as CPU clock speed boosters and the like.


This absolutely can fry computer equipment.


Califdan said:


> So, it's not clear what might be causing your CPU to peg out at 100% but I would certainly think that an LR Export or Import process would not cause the issue as those operations are disk intensive and the CPU would be spending most of its time waiting for data to be read or written.


I'd suggest that this latter depends heavily on the configuration.  Lightroom has gotten complicated at how much of your processor it will use, based on how many CPU cores (or threads) you have it makes different decisions how much  to do in parallel.  With the advent of SSD's and later M.2 drives, the common intuition that disk is the slow component is changing.  I have a very fast M.2 PCIe gen four disk drive.    I just exported a few images to see, I hit 60% CPU briefly, but did not even get a blip on how busy the disk drive is.  For me the CPU is definitely the constraining factor.

Lightroom also appears to constrain itself depending on whether it detects user activity.  If you are exporting while trying to continue to edit, I think you will find he export uses less resources.  But do a huge export and just leave the computer, and in a few minutes I think you will find it bumps into whatever constraint is first -- and if you have fast-ish disks  or raw files especially with complex edits, that very well could be CPU saturation.

Back in the day when equipment was less reliable (though many including I still do), a new computer went through a burn-in period when you got it. You load a benchmark program that will thoroughly saturate different parts of it for as long as you want it to (typically a day or so) and just let it run full blast.  The idea was to break anything fragile before you put it into use, since it's much easier to return before you spend days loading stuff on it.  Computers, not over clocked, and with adequate airflow (or water if you go that route) should be able to run at full capacity without damage.  Sure... it ages them faster, but it's not damaging per se.

As Cletus mentioned, the most common user induced issue is somehow blocking airflow - dust, blankets, pillows, stuffing them in small places. On some laptops use of a docking station with the top closed can cause overheat as some laptops were designed to count on some cooling from they keyboard area also.

But my own experience is that some PC's, both laptops and desktops, are simply badly designed.  They trade physical size reductions for cooling (they also trade it for maintainability, as almost every cell phone does).   Computer manufacturers want your computer to outlast the warranty, with a bit more buffer, then they no longer care if it dies.  In fact they may prefer it.


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## Replytoken (Mar 11, 2021)

jjlad said:


> Thanks for the reply. The reason for the exporting is so when I'm gone the family will still have the jpegs with all the edits baked in. They don't use LR and will never use the huge tiffs and unedited raw files.
> I kept upgrading the laptop to try and keep up with Adobe ...but that didn't work. The specs are still within the minimums Adobe says are needed.


A very good idea, and I am currently having to help the family of a close friend who recently passed deal with his images in and outside of LR.  So, I completely understand, and agree with, your goal, but I am still not understanding the need to reimport.  I guess if I was to undertake this project, I would probably dedicate an external drive to hold just the jpeg copies of the images that I processed and wanted people to have access to.  This would only involve one export into whatever folder arrangement you think might be most useful for your family.  No reimport is needed.  I suspect that you may have considered something similar, but as I am not familiar with your level of LR use, I wanted to suggest it just in case.  I hope all goes well with your new machine.  And for future reference, I believe that notebookcheck looks at heat dissipation and possible throttling when they test laptops.  It is not usually something that one factors into a purchase, but it is good to know.  A lot of machines will throttle their CPU's to varying degrees when they reachcertain temperatures.

Good luck,

--Ken


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## jjlad (Mar 11, 2021)

Ferguson said:


> Any properly designed computer should be able to run at 100% CPU without damage.
> 
> Lightroom performance at times is awful, I agree with that statement.
> 
> ...


By irreparable he meant the processor now heats up rapidly. He said that is common with gamers' processors that run at high CPU usage for long periods. He has replaced some of those on newer machines but doesn't recommend it on older ones. 

I'm not a gamer. Lightroom Exports are the ONLY operation I've ever done on that laptop that has caused the processor to pin at 100%. There is absolutely nothing else I've ever done with it that resulted in that. I've seen that happen every time I do large exports. I have a RAM & CPU monitor that would display the 100% CPU usage but I didn't realize I could expand it to see "Metrics" which show Ram, CPU and Disk in %. plus CPU, GPU and Mainboard in degrees C  and fan speed ...which always seems to be around 1780 rpm. 

Had I realized previously that the CPU temperatures was hitting  100C when the CPU hit 100% I would have googled it earlier and perhaps invested in a cooling pad. I just didn't know that the 100% CPU would cause everything to overheat.  Back then, the Export/Import process was working fine. It wasn't until it recently started shutting down that I discovered the high temperature and now the Export/Import won't even work for 10 photos before crashing the system.

Sure ...some high end machines are spec'd and equipped to handle 100% for long periods but how many of the 12 million CC users have machines spec'd out like that?  Likely not too many export 1000 photos at a time either or worse yet simultaneously import them back into the catalog like I was doing, but nowhere did I see anything warning about potential issues like that. The computer obviously reports its temperature and CPU usage, and Adobe has programmers who could certainly build in a warning system and offer a tweaking option or even cough up a warning with advice on how to adjust ones system to avoid destroying it. They took the preferences of some Power Users with powerful machines, and applied it to everyone. 

That's like programming Grandma's Camry to hit full throttle every time she drives the grandkids to school. Fun for the kids but eventually there's gonna be problems.


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## jjlad (Mar 11, 2021)

clee01l said:


> Overheating can also be caused on a laptop when the cooling vents are blocked.   The most common reasons for a blocked vent on a laptop is that they are used on a lap or proper up on a pillow.





Hal P Anderson said:


> From your description of the symptoms your PC has exhibited, it sounds like what happens when the interior of the machine has a dust build-up. That is a common cause of overheating.


Cletus: At least 3 thorough blow outs of the vents per year. Ditto for everything that can be accessed with the big center back panel removed. It was virtually spotless when we opened it the other day. 

Hal: No pillows. It is a tank and has never been used on anything other than a flat hard desk or table. Tried it once in the car but it is so big I couldn't get my elbows back far enough to operate it comfortably and turned it off within minutes. Not even sure why these 17" machines are called  laptops.


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## jjlad (Mar 11, 2021)

Replytoken said:


> A very good idea, and I am currently having to help the family of a close friend who recently passed deal with his images in and outside of LR.  So, I completely understand, and agree with, your goal, but I am still not understanding the need to reimport.  I guess if I was to undertake this project, I would probably dedicate an external drive to hold just the jpeg copies of the images that I processed and wanted people to have access to.  This would only involve one export into whatever folder arrangement you think might be most useful for your family.  No reimport is needed.  I suspect that you may have considered something similar, but as I am not familiar with your level of LR use, I wanted to suggest it just in case.  I hope all goes well with your new machine.  And for future reference, I believe that notebookcheck looks at heat dissipation and possible throttling when they test laptops.  It is not usually something that one factors into a purchase, but it is good to know.  A lot of machines will throttle their CPU's to varying degrees when they reachcertain temperatures.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> --Ken


Thanks for the reply Ken. I re-import so I have the edited versions in LR and can further tinker with them. I also digitized many, many thousands of prints and slides and enjoy the tinkering as new techniques emerge. I don't need the original raw files or edited tiffs for that and it's only for my own education and enjoyment that I do it. My storage is cut to a third or less by doing this and everything works much faster too. Different strokes for different folks for sure though, so always good to see how others do it. 
The Archived jpegs include all photos so not all go to family. I have a separate "For Family" drive attached and labelled for them from which I load  identical 64gThumb Drives that include my will and other important details in password protected folders, one thumb drive to each family. Grandkids just starting to enjoy the sports photos.  I can add to those drives when they visit. They don't get anything with less than 3 stars and and those are transferred onto the thumb drives using Windows Explorer. I just sort them by rating and drag and drop the jpgs, and I can have 3 thumbs plugged in at once doing that. Incidentally ...my machine doesn't sweat that at all. That includes my real estate, sports, portrait, areal and even wedding stuff plus PDF's of albums and photobooks. Other than the LR Exports that system is working great so far. I'd always wondered what to do with it all, and that system resolves the issue and covers some other essentials as well.


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## jjlad (Mar 11, 2021)

Ferguson said:


> This absolutely can fry computer equipment.
> 
> I'd suggest that this latter depends heavily on the configuration.  Lightroom has gotten complicated at how much of your processor it will use, based on how many CPU cores (or threads) you have it makes different decisions how much  to do in parallel.  With the advent of SSD's and later M.2 drives, the common intuition that disk is the slow component is changing.  I have a very fast M.2 PCIe gen four disk drive.    I just exported a few images to see, I hit 60% CPU briefly, but did not even get a blip on how busy the disk drive is.  For me the CPU is definitely the constraining factor.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response Ferguson. Please see my other replies which pertain to this too.


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## PhilBurton (Mar 11, 2021)

Ferguson said:


> Any properly designed computer should be able to run at 100% CPU without damage.
> 
> Lightroom performance at times is awful, I agree with that statement.
> 
> ...


The more I think about this issue, the more I doubt the technician's description of a "damaged" CPU.  If the CPU is damaged, then your system will crash soon enough or you can't access all of the memory in your system.  In any case, a visual inspection can't detect CPU damage unless the chip got fried, in which  case is is completely damaged.  The technician's explanation is totally bogus, if I am be so bold as to say so.

Try a different repair service.


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## Replytoken (Mar 11, 2021)

jjlad said:


> Thanks for the reply Ken. I re-import so I have the edited versions in LR and can further tinker with them. I also digitized many, many thousands of prints and slides and enjoy the tinkering as new techniques emerge. I don't need the original raw files or edited tiffs for that and it's only for my own education and enjoyment that I do it. My storage is cut to a third or less by doing this and everything works much faster too. Different strokes for different folks for sure though, so always good to see how others do it.
> The Archived jpegs include all photos so not all go to family. I have a separate "For Family" drive attached and labelled for them from which I load  identical 64gThumb Drives that include my will and other important details in password protected folders, one thumb drive to each family. Grandkids just starting to enjoy the sports photos.  I can add to those drives when they visit. They don't get anything with less than 3 stars and and those are transferred onto the thumb drives using Windows Explorer. I just sort them by rating and drag and drop the jpgs, and I can have 3 thumbs plugged in at once doing that. Incidentally ...my machine doesn't sweat that at all. That includes my real estate, sports, portrait, areal and even wedding stuff plus PDF's of albums and photobooks. Other than the LR Exports that system is working great so far. I'd always wondered what to do with it all, and that system resolves the issue and covers some other essentials as well.


It's great that you do a lot of sharing, and exporting to drives works fine, but do know that you can also share Smart previews on the web if that is more convenient (albeit less permanent if something should happen to your CC subscription).  But, I do question the re-importing of the jpeg files.  In my workflow, any file that I export, what I call a derivative, is expendable and can quickly be deleted, as it can easily be reproduced from the catalog.  Have you considered this approach?


PhilBurton said:


> The more I think about this issue, the more I doubt the technician's description of a "damaged" CPU.  If the CPU is damaged, then your system will crash soon enough or you can't access all of the memory in your system.  In any case, a visual inspection can't detect CPU damage unless the chip got fried, in which  case is is completely damaged.  The technician's explanation is totally bogus, if I am be so bold as to say so.
> 
> Try a different repair service.


It may also be possible that any thermal paste on or around the CPU has dried up or is no longer effective.  I cannot say for certain in this case, but I can see something like this happening.  In any event, we do not know for certain without seeing the machine, so the recommendation of a different technician is reasonable if it is possible.  Then again, we are talking about a 4th generation i7 chip.  Not exactly a spring chicken.

--Ken


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## Linwood Ferguson (Mar 11, 2021)

Replytoken said:


> It's great that you do a lot of sharing, and exporting to drives works fine, but do know that you can also share Smart previews on the web if that is more convenient (albeit less permanent if something should happen to your CC subscription).  But, I do question the re-importing of the jpeg files.  In my workflow, any file that I export, what I call a derivative, is expendable and can quickly be deleted, as it can easily be reproduced from the catalog.  Have you considered this approach?
> 
> It may also be possible that any thermal paste on or around the CPU has dried up or is no longer effective.  I cannot say for certain in this case, but I can see something like this happening.  In any event, we do not know for certain without seeing the machine, so the recommendation of a different technician is reasonable if it is possible.  Then again, we are talking about a 4th generation i7 chip.  Not exactly a spring chicken.
> 
> --Ken



I was thinking about that as well, trying to find a reasonable explanation of what the technician was after.  Thermal paste is used to carry heat from the CPU's case onto whatever cooling system is present.  In desktops that's often a big heatsink with a fan, in laptops it varies but is often a heavy copper (or similar) piping to carry heat and spread it around to radiate.  But the quality of the thermal paste, and how well applied and what its condition is makes a big difference.  I have never heard of it "cooking" to become ineffective (since its purpose is to get hot), but it does not sound impossible.

But I'd still bet heavily on him just making stuff up because a lot of technicians are physically unable to say "I do not know what is wrong".  

Can an overheating episode cause a problem that is intermittent -- yes.  I think more rare, but sure.

But I will still stick to my belief that if a computer cannot run for an hour or a few at 100% CPU it is poorly designed, or in a bad environment.  It's not the job of Adobe to build software for poor computer designs, and the idea that there are millions of sufficiently poor designs that running lightroom will damage them is just not believable, especially since we would have all heard from hundreds of complaints by now.   Including a lot of the heavy duty LR users here.


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## Replytoken (Mar 12, 2021)

Ferguson said:


> I was thinking about that as well, trying to find a reasonable explanation of what the technician was after.  Thermal paste is used to carry heat from the CPU's case onto whatever cooling system is present.  In desktops that's often a big heatsink with a fan, in laptops it varies but is often a heavy copper (or similar) piping to carry heat and spread it around to radiate.  But the quality of the thermal paste, and how well applied and what its condition is makes a big difference.  I have never heard of it "cooking" to become ineffective (since its purpose is to get hot), but it does not sound impossible.
> 
> But I'd still bet heavily on him just making stuff up because a lot of technicians are physically unable to say "I do not know what is wrong".
> 
> ...


As I mentioned above, it is quite interesting to read Notebookcheck reviews as they test for both heat and performance, and they often talk about how companies will throttle CPUs to prevent them from cooking.  And my understanding of thermal paste is that it either gets old or dries out and becomes ineffective.  Now that I think about it, it is unusual that the OP's machine did not throttle the CPU, or if it did, then there was an other issue with thermal dissipation.  Then again, I am not a technician, so my advice could be worth less than its weight in salt.

--Ken


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## clee01l (Mar 12, 2021)

Considering that jjlad is the only report that there is a problem leads me to believe that 
a) the make and model of the computer is the problem, 
OR
b) this particular computer is at fault. 

That there are no other reports of a Lightroom related computer failure, suggests strongly that this is NOT a software issue. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jjlad (Mar 13, 2021)

Someone mentioned the processor was introduced back in 2013 so for sure it is old. I didn't buy the laptop until 2015 and kept upgrading but admittedly things do wear out. My new one has arrived. Haven't turned it on yet but already swapped the 16g Ram for 64g. Now I'm trying to figure out my 'migration process' since I want to replace the new one's 1TB HDD storage drive with the 1TB SSD


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## jjlad (Mar 13, 2021)

got a phone call b4 finishing that....
Working on how to replace the 1TB HDD in the new one with the 8 month old 1 TB SSD from this old one. I'm sure I'll know more by the end of the day but for now it's a challenge.


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## tspear (Mar 13, 2021)

A few myths in this thread. If you properly cool the CPU they will not wear out. What can happen, when the computer gets hot, you can damage the cooling systems, especially the thermal paste.
I have systems which run 100% CPU 24x7. And these are converted desktops for the most part and run for years without an issue.

HP is notorious among my hardware hacking friends for going cheap on cooling and other components in consumer lines. They do not expect consumers to do anything but burst loads on the computer. 

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


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## jjlad (Mar 10, 2021)

Been having issues with LR crashing my computer when exporting files. It pins the CPU at 100% and then the temperatures of the CPU, GPU and Motheboard all start rising fast to 100 degrees Celsius and above and the laptop crashes totally. It appears this has irrevocably damaged my computer CPU and possibly other components.

I used to be able to take a combination of say 1000 jpg, nef and tiff images from a given month, and export them all as jpgs with all edits, into a new sub folders for each day, called "Archived jpgs". I would set the export to simultaneously import them back into the catalog. On completion I would delete all the selected images and then daily folder by daily folder ...move the new ones into the original folders and delete the Archived Jpgs folders. That part went pretty quick.

A week or so ago that process started to slow down dramatically. The import into the catalog portion would almost suspend while the export was going on and after the export completed ...would import one photo every 3 seconds or so. The archived photos are only 4-6 mb in size so LR was importing them at less than 2 mb per second. Really painful.

I changed the export preset to export only and selected only 50-100 photos at a time but that still heats up the laptop to where the CPU is at 100% and 100c and the GPU is at 95-100c and the mainboard is at 95c, but for shorter periods. After exporting I import all the photos created, and that happens in the time it was taking to import 2 or 3 photos with the “Add to Catalog” option checked. Then I delete all the originals then folder by folder ...move the new ones into the original folders and delete the Archived Jpgs folders. I also have my laptop resting on a frozen cooler ice pack to help get cooler air into the fans. That is helping but still, if I try the Export/Import combination my system still crashes.

My existing laptop isn't poorly spec'd:

HP Envy 17" with 2.40 gigahertz Intel Core i7-4700MQ
Windows 10 Home 19041.804
16g ram (that's max)
1 TB SSD plus 1TB HDD
Intel(R) HD Graphics 4600 [Display adapter]
NVIDIA GeForce GT 740M [Display adapter] (good at the time but impossible with latest Adobe program updates)
The laptop ram and SSD upgrades were done to help LR and Photoshop work better. The laptop itself was an upgrade from an earlier Presario, solely to handle LR and PS better and thanks to ever more performance defeating editions of PS and LR, the Graphics card is no longer powerful enough to even process Select and Mask in Photoshop, despite Sky Replacement working instantly! 

I searched online and got nothing but very bad news about this so I had a technician (who comes Lysol sprayer in hand, masked and with new rubber gloves).
He confirmed my fan and cooling ducts were clean and made sure nothing else was running other than my Performance Monitor. He then watched me try an export using the Add to Catalog option.
The laptop totally crashed 1 minute into it. 

The tech informed me if I wanted to continue using LR in batch mode like that I'd have to get a new laptop because the existing one has suffered irreparable damage and further use like that would probably fry it totally. He said with the repetition of doing that batch processing in LR the damage became cumulative and the processor would never perform to its full capability again. He said there is no sense spending $500-$700 to repair a 5yr old laptop. 

HP told me flat out that running a CPU at 100% is not recommended. Doing so repeatedly would certainly lead to premature processor failure.

So thanks to Adobe programming Lightroom to pin the CPU at 100%, it is necessary for me to buy a new laptop.
I ordered a 17" HP OMEN with NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 graphics, 16g DDR4 ram and a very intensive cooling system. It is also $2300 including tax and a 3 year service and damage warranty (refundable if not used). 

I've read some other threads on this where Guru’s reported that Adobe decided to program LR to use 100% of the CPU for exports BECAUSE USERS WANT THIS.
So I guess I'm confused as to who to thank for having to spend all this money ...Adobe or Lightroom users who like to run with their CPU's pinned and just haven't YET suffered catastrophic CPU degradation because of it. To all those I say "Thanks folks, hope the same thing happens to you!"


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## PhilBurton (Mar 14, 2021)

jjlad said:


> got a phone call b4 finishing that....
> Working on how to replace the 1TB HDD in the new one with the 8 month old 1 TB SSD from this old one. I'm sure I'll know more by the end of the day but for now it's a challenge.


This cable may be very useful.  You will also need some kind of migration software, which should be provided by the SSD manufacturer.

Be sure to make a full backup of the SSD before proceeding.  Macrium Reflect Free is highly recommended and easy to use.  If there is a problem with the SDD  copy, then just use Macrium to restore its original contents.


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## PhilBurton (Mar 14, 2021)

PhilBurton said:


> This cable may be very useful.  You will also need some kind of migration software, which should be provided by the SSD manufacturer.
> 
> Be sure to make a full backup of the SSD before proceeding.  Macrium Reflect Free is highly recommended and easy to use.  If there is a problem with the SDD  copy, then just use Macrium to restore its original contents.


Forgot to include the link for the cable.  StarTech USB 3.0 to 2.5" SATA III Hard Drive Adapter Cable - Newegg.com

Phil


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## Denis de Gannes (Mar 14, 2021)

First thing I would try is to revert from LrC 10.1.1 to LrC 10.0, and turn of the GPU acceleration, there is a bug that was introduced by the 10.1 update.
ACR has been updated recently to 13.2 earlier the week and LrC should be released soon.
The only thing that is missing in the info here is specifically how much free disk space is available on the disk drives involved, where you OS is and where the files are being exported to.
Are the any other applications running when you are exporting.


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## englishsteve (Mar 15, 2021)

One thing to note about laptops in general - consumer laptops are almost _never_ made or even designed by the company whose name is on the lid.  This applies to all manufacturers, not just HP.

When a computer brand is looking for a new consumer laptop, they generally put out a tender to multiple actual manufacturers (most of whom you will never have heard of) and they pick the one that best fits the aim of that product line.  What this means, in practice, is that there is little consistency in drivers, hardware or reliability between models in the same range.

My advice has always been that if you want a reliable laptop, buy something from the business or mobile workstation ranges of one of the major PC manufacturers.  This means that a) it will actually have been designed by the engineers at that company, b) will be built either by them or at an exclusive subcontract factory and c) you have a chance that drivers and parts will be available longer than the warranty period.  You will pay more, but you will get a much better product.

Note that this does not apply to Apple laptops, their entire range is more akin to the business ranges of the PC manufacturers from the dev process perspective.

Source: I worked in this industry for many years


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## jjlad (Mar 16, 2021)

Replytoken said:


> As I mentioned above, it is quite interesting to read Notebookcheck reviews as they test for both heat and performance, and they often talk about how companies will throttle CPUs to prevent them from cooking.  And my understanding of thermal paste is that it either gets old or dries out and becomes ineffective.  Now that I think about it, it is unusual that the OP's machine did not throttle the CPU, or if it did, then there was an other issue with thermal dissipation.  Then again, I am not a technician, so my advice could be worth less than its weight in salt.
> 
> --Ken





Replytoken said:


> It's great that you do a lot of sharing, and exporting to drives works fine, but do know that you can also share Smart previews on the web if that is more convenient (albeit less permanent if something should happen to your CC subscription).  But, I do question the re-importing of the jpeg files.  In my workflow, any file that I export, what I call a derivative, is expendable and can quickly be deleted, as it can easily be reproduced from the catalog.  Have you considered this approach?
> 
> It may also be possible that any thermal paste on or around the CPU has dried up or is no longer effective.  I cannot say for certain in this case, but I can see something like this happening.  In any event, we do not know for certain without seeing the machine, so the recommendation of a different technician is reasonable if it is possible.  Then again, we are talking about a 4th generation i7 chip.  Not exactly a spring chicken.
> 
> --Ken


Thanks for the response. I export to 12"x12" jpgs at 240. Big enough for them to use any way they want and still good enough to become my new "originals" in my catalog. I've found in the past that I seldom completely start over with edits. The process eliminates the tiffs and raw files and just gives me fairly compact jpgs to lug into eternity, edit again if I get so inclined, and/or pass off for my offspring.


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## LRList001 (Mar 16, 2021)

I'm reading this and the laptop has been updated so many times, it isn't really a OEM laptop at all.  If it turns out that all those modifications have taken it out of the manufacturer's assumptions and design decisions about how it will be used, I'm no longer reading about a problem with either the original HP laptop, nor how well (or badly) an OEM HP laptop runs LR.  Am I missing something here?


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## jjlad (Mar 31, 2021)

LRList001 said:


> I'm reading this and the laptop has been updated so many times, it isn't really a OEM laptop at all.  If it turns out that all those modifications have taken it out of the manufacturer's assumptions and design decisions about how it will be used, I'm no longer reading about a problem with either the original HP laptop, nor how well (or badly) an OEM HP laptop runs LR.  Am I missing something here?


Thanks for the interest in this. You're right. The old laptop definitely underwent lots of surgery.
I got my new laptop. 
It came with 16g of ram and I've upgraded to 64g 
It also came with a 256g NVMe M.2 main drive plus a 1tb HDD for data.
There are two NVMe M.2 drive slots so I added a 2 tb NVMe M.2 drive which is now D and will use that for data.
I also replaced the 1TB HDD with the 1 TB SSD which was the C:\ drive in my old laptop. I copied all my data from it to the new 2 TB D drive and pointed all my Windows 10 library shortcuts there. That old laptop's  SSD (which is now E) is fairly new so I'll just use it for additional storage ...perhaps just videos.

I did new installs of Creative Cloud, CR, PS and LR Cl, so all that is up and running. I opened LR from the old LR catalog and had to point it to where the photos now reside since they are on different drive letters than before.

That's done and LR seems to be working 'ok' but often it suddenly opens an import dialog for no reason and displays this message:





It is referring *Users\Jay\ *but the new laptop automatically assigned the name *Users\jjayl * to me (first 5 characters of my regular email address) so the problem LR is having is referring to my OLD laptop. Is it be getting that from the catalog which I copied to D and opened from there?
If so why would it do that after having been pointed to the new locations and working fine on those until it suddenly wants to go into Import mode?
This happens a lot and 50% of the time it crashes Lightroom so solidly that I have to close it from Task Manager and re-start after which it is OK until it does it again.

I also had a weird thing happen where an entire folder of images ended up with at least one dup of each image and in some cases 2. 
The affected folders are on an external drive ...which I had to point LR to so the images showed up without the "?".

The originals all have names like:
*JJL_6045.JPG*

Many dups have names with an underscore in front and one letter missing like 
*_JL6030.JPEG*

Other dups (almost the same number as the originals) have names like  
*JPEG Image (176842).jpg *

In many cases the originals with "JJL_" prefix disappeared.
To sort it out I selected all the "_JL" photos and flagged them Red. Then I selected all the "JPEG Image (######).jpg" pictures and flagged them Blue.
I then sorted by date and that clearly showed the duplicates in their colors.
To clean it up I had to make sure I had one valid photo of each ....and many times there was only the two dup name conventions so I kept the one with the "JPEG Image " prefix because there were more of those than the "_JL" prefix. I then deleted all those with the _JL prefix and the remaining duplicates with the "JPEG Image" prefix.
Now I'm left with about 70 images in that folder but at least there's only one of each.

The other weird thing is all my edits have been incorporated into the photos. The whole folder was an airshow and the photos are cropped, sharpened and toned ...I know that because I edited all of them, but the edit history is gone. I eventually archive my images with edits incorporated but that year had not yet come up for that, so the edits should still have been there.  There're ok as is but I'm puzzled as to how this could happen. It's like there's a Lightroom gremlin bouncing around creating havoc in my new laptop.

I've only discovered the duplications in two Months worth of images but Lightroom's incessant insistence on importing from the C drive on my old laptop which is no longer in the catalog, and then crashing, makes me think that has something to do with it. 

When I would right click on a dup and "Show in Explorer",  they showed up in same folder as the originals and they weren't there prior to installing LR on the new laptop  ....so I'm confused on this whole thing. 

I have never saved or renamed any photos with names like the duplicates. They were generated by some mystery process unknown to me.

Perhaps there's a reason the new laptop is called OMEN??


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## Victoria Bampton (Apr 1, 2021)

jjlad said:


> That's done and LR seems to be working 'ok' but often it suddenly opens an import dialog for no reason and displays this message:
> View attachment 16329
> 
> It is referring *Users\Jay\ *but the new laptop automatically assigned the name *Users\jjayl * to me (first 5 characters of my regular email address) so the problem LR is having is referring to my OLD laptop. Is it be getting that from the catalog which I copied to D and opened from there?
> If so why would it do that after having been pointed to the new locations and working fine on those until it suddenly wants to go into Import mode?



If you haven't run any imports on this machine yet, it's probably defaulting to the last used destination on the old machine. As to why import keeps popping up, something attached to the machine that's on autoplay... phone connected, printer with a memory card slot, network storage, something like that which makes Lightroom think you want to import?



jjlad said:


> The other weird thing is all my edits have been incorporated into the photos. The whole folder was an airshow and the photos are cropped, sharpened and toned ...I know that because I edited all of them, but the edit history is gone. I eventually archive my images with edits incorporated but that year had not yet come up for that, so the edits should still have been there.  There're ok as is but I'm puzzled as to how this could happen. It's like there's a Lightroom gremlin bouncing around creating havoc in my new laptop.



No history would suggest the photos have either been imported today or at some point in the past... is there an import step with a date listed in the History panel?


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## jjlad (Apr 1, 2021)

Thanks for getting back to me Victoria! Didn't expect that.
Regarding drives, I have been connecting external drives and or switching them on or off using the connection buttons on my 10 port USB hub.
as well as an external drive that connected via USB-C. I didn't necessarily have LR running when connecting/disconnecting drives, and what was connected could have changed between times LR was opened. That's been SOP for me for some time. Not all my drives tie into LR ...I basically limit that to my Pictures folder now on D (internal) and a large external drive for archives. I have another external for File History (the Windows app), and the rest of them are for data for other pursuits and are connected via switch as I need them. I haven't inserted a camera card in the new laptop yet. I have connected my phone to that USB hub but only for charging when the laptop was turned off or 'asleep' overnight. 

I deleted as many dups as I could and emptied my recycle bin so can't check all of them, however all the images remaining in that folder show only one import date ...in 2018, and no recorded changes after that date.

This is puzzling since I'd been in that folder doing edits to images since then ...even in 2020, but the file dates on disk match what LR shows, so no idea how they all got to the state they are in now and got the oddball names. My catalog was copied to my Pictures folder on D from the old laptop's hard drive and was the latest catalog for sure since it does contain images taken just before I pulled the drive from the old laptop.

The naming conventions are like nothing I've ever used and are not found anywhere else. I've searched through all my images for those naming conventions and they occur only in the one folder. 

This is in File Explorer. My normal naming convention is the first one, and all the other are weirdos.




Here's more from further down in that folder which show that even my normal naming convention JJL_#### has been truncated in the front, reducing it to JL_####. I have eliminated some with the JPEG Image prefix and all those with an _JL prefix and kept what I could to end up with ONE edition of each photo. My original JJL_#### named images are entirely gone from anywhere in that folder except for .




There are 3 sub folders within the main folder for that shoot. In all there are 1277 images
551 are with my normal naming convention with my "JJL_" prefix
665 have the "JPEG Image" prefix
   61 have the "_JL" prefix
When I discovered all this there were nearly 1600 images overall and I've deleted all the dups I could. I didn't delete any with my normal 'JJL_" prefix  and it took nearly 4 hours to end up with just one of each. Admittedly some of that time was spent just scratching my head trying to figure out how to tackle the problem.

 I can live with them as is (kind of accept them as archived), recognizing my curiosity as to how they got that way may never be satisfied. 
Prior to that folder and following that folder all my images taken with my DSLR's have the normal JJL_#### naming convention unless shot on a phone or other P&S camera.

Anyway, I'm more or less up and running and will just live with what I have there. All the affected images are from an airshow. The only other thing I'd like to do with some of them is Super Resolution them, so as to crop the sometimes far away subject with better resolution. Since Super Resolution doesn't work in, with or from Lightroom, I find that process o clumsy (especially for jpegs), that I'll wait until Adobe integrates it better or else just get Gigapixel AI, which quite surprisingly, does integrate with Lightroom.  Hopefully Adobe will catch up to Topaz on that before too long and an additional investment in that plugin won't be necessary. I've kind of splurged on hardware lately.

Thanks for trying to help on the file thing. I'm just going to put the Mystery wrapper on it and carry on with what I have.

Regards, Jay


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