# Collaborative working?



## davidedric (Oct 19, 2017)

Just thinking out loud.

As I understand it, the Catalogue is a simple SQLite "data base".  It does not have the capabilities (locking, referential integrity and so on) that would enable it to be used as a multi-user resource.  I've not read anything about the new release that suggests that's changed?

It seems to me that a natural next step for a Cloud-based system would be collaborative working, for example, a team of photographers working on a project.  I can imagine re-designing the Catalogue (and I've no idea how much else) to support multiple users could be very interesting, and would be transparent to non-Cloud users.

Is that possible with the new release, and if not could it make sense?

Dave


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## Gnits (Oct 19, 2017)

I was hoping the new product would be designed to be multi user from the start and cater for a professional office setup. I think we have to wait for an Adobe roadmap or the release of Ver 2 to get any sense of features beyond what has been announced.


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## Victoria Bampton (Oct 19, 2017)

Yes, I mean, since everything's cloud synced, if multiple people were all signed into the same Adobe ID, you could all be working on stuff at the same time. There's no locking to prevent you both working on the same photo at the same time or anything, but even at this stage, it's workable. I'd expect some kind of "family sharing" type setup to be possible in the future too - it's a logical progression - but we don't have a timescale on it.


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## palengh (Apr 2, 2018)

I would vote for a multi user environment.
Hav you guys seen any progression it that direction lately?
Have anyone done a fairly good working workaround to achieve a "multi user environment"?


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## Johan Elzenga (Apr 2, 2018)

palengh said:


> I would vote for a multi user environment.
> Hav you guys seen any progression it that direction lately?
> Had anyone done a fairly good working workaround to achieve a "multi user environment"?


I don't think Lightroom Classic will ever become multi-user. It is far more likely and logical that Lightroom CC will one day support multi-user access to its cloud storage.


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## PhilBurton (Apr 2, 2018)

JohanElzenga said:


> I don't think Lightroom Classic will ever become multi-user. It is far more likely and logical that Lightroom CC will one day support multi-user access to its cloud storage.


If you look at the "Creative Cloud" page on Adobe's web site, they have team version pricing for all their products except Lightroom.  

In theory, "all" that is necessary is replacement of SQLite but a true multi-user database.  However, there could be a cost issue.  And from what I have heard about how Lightroom actually uses SQLite, it is not a "clean" use situation.   Too much "technical dept," in software parlance.  The technical difficulties could be formidable.

Phil Burton


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## palengh (Apr 2, 2018)

PhilBurton said:


> JohanElzenga said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think Lightroom Classic will ever become multi-user. It is far more likely and logical that Lightroom CC will one day support multi-user access to its cloud storage.
> ...


I’ve been thinking a lot about this. I know the LR Catalog is an SQLite database. Would it be as simple as establishing a real database (we run Oracle, SQL and others in-house) that is capable of multi-users, and finding a way to merge the lrcat on the fly into the full-size-dB? 
Or any other way in that direction?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Johan Elzenga (Apr 2, 2018)

I repeat what I already said: given the development of Lightroom CC, which is more or less multi-user already (just log in with the same account), I think it is highly unlikely that Lightroom Classic will ever be upgraded to this capability.


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## palengh (Apr 2, 2018)

JohanElzenga said:


> I repeat what I already said: given the development of Lightroom CC, which is more or less multi-user already (just log in with the same account), I think it is highly unlikely that Lightroom Classic will ever be upgraded to this capability.



OK. I get your message. 
I thought LR CC would host all photos in the cloud?


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## Johan Elzenga (Apr 2, 2018)

palengh said:


> OK. I get your message.
> I thought LR CC would host all photos in the cloud?


Yes, and that is what makes multi-user so logical. The only thing each person would need to do is log-in. The images and the edits are in the cloud.


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## palengh (Apr 2, 2018)

JohanElzenga said:


> palengh said:
> 
> 
> > OK. I get your message.
> ...


Cloud hosting would work on project basis, but not what I want to achieve: use LR as catalog for the entire photo/video archive storing 10 thousands of photos. 

Any suggestions for this?
Can master photos be stored on a NAS and local smart copies in the cloud?


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## PhilBurton (Apr 2, 2018)

palengh said:


> I’ve been thinking a lot about this. I know the LR Catalog is an SQLite database. Would it be as simple as establishing a real database (we run Oracle, SQL and others in-house) that is capable of multi-users, and finding a way to merge the lrcat on the fly into the full-size-dB?
> Or any other way in that direction?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sure just a "simple matter of programming."  Every time I have heard that expression at work, I knew my product was in trouble, at least for release date.     Last time I looked, which was admittedly some years ago, Oracle's pricing model would be cost-prohibitive for Lightroom desktop use.  Oracle is not exactly a simple database to install or maintain.  That's why there is a corporate IT job role called, "Database Administrator," or dba.  

I have heard that there is a free multi-user database called Progress, but I don't know anything about it.  The multi-user version of the Photo Supreme DAM uses Progress.

However, I think the key issue is what Johan Elzenga wrote in a prior response.


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## Johan Elzenga (Apr 2, 2018)

palengh said:


> Cloud hosting would work on project basis, but not what I want to achieve: use LR as catalog for the entire photo/video archive storing 10 thousands of photos.


What would stop you from using Lightroom CC for that? Do you know at all how Lightroom CC works?



palengh said:


> Can master photos be stored on a NAS and local smart copies in the cloud?


Yes, Lightroom Classic can do that, but you can only sync one single catalog. The 'multi user' part would mean that the other users can only work with smart previews.


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## palengh (Apr 2, 2018)

JohanElzenga said:


> palengh said:
> 
> 
> > Cloud hosting would work on project basis, but not what I want to achieve: use LR as catalog for the entire photo/video archive storing 10 thousands of photos.
> ...


Will smart previews allow metadata changes from two users on the same photo?
Will they have to use two catalogs (master and smart previews)?


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## Johan Elzenga (Apr 3, 2018)

palengh said:


> Will smart previews allow metadata changes from two users on the same photo?


Some metadata, such as captions, do sync. Other metadata, such as keywords, don't.


palengh said:


> Will they have to use two catalogs (master and smart previews)?


Like I said before, *only one* (Lightroom Classic) catalog can be synched. It will sync smart previews to the cloud. On another computer (or on a mobile device) you can then use Lightroom CC to access these, make edits, and edit those few metadata that do sync back to Lightroom Classic.

Alternatively, you could use Lightroom CC on both computers (more than two computers is not yet allowed). That will sync originals to the cloud and syncs anything that is done on one computer to the other one.


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## johnbeardy (Apr 3, 2018)

palengh said:


> I’ve been thinking a lot about this. I know the LR Catalog is an SQLite database. Would it be as simple as establishing a real database (we run Oracle, SQL and others in-house) that is capable of multi-users, and finding a way to merge the lrcat on the fly into the full-size-dB? Or any other way in that direction?



Not "simple" but many applications have been built with alternative single and multi-user versions. In  one case data is stored in a single-user database (lrcat) and in the other it goes to an enterprise multi-user database such as those you mention. The user interface is separate from the back end database, and the multi-user version contains additional features to handle multi-user scenarios (permissions to do certain tasks, see certain items, approve workflows etc). 

Ten years ago I expected LR to develop this way, adding the multi-user features to a premium price version after Lr3 or 4 . Even if a market existed for that type of product, since then we have seen the rise of mobile and the cloud. So if Adobe ever make a multi-user LR, I would now expect it to use the cloud as the back end rather than servers run by the user. Smart previews and cloud storage of raw files make this more viable.


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## PhilBurton (Apr 3, 2018)

johnbeardy said:


> Not "simple" but many applications have been built with alternative single and multi-user versions. In  one case data is stored in a single-user database (lrcat) and in the other it goes to an enterprise multi-user database such as those you mention. The user interface is separate from the back end database, and the multi-user version contains additional features to handle multi-user scenarios (permissions to do certain tasks, see certain items, approve workflows etc).
> 
> Ten years ago I expected LR to develop this way, adding the multi-user features to a premium price version after Lr3 or 4 . Even if a market existed for that type of product, since then we have seen the rise of mobile and the cloud. So if Adobe ever make a multi-user LR, I would now expect it to use the cloud as the back end rather than servers run by the user. Smart previews and cloud storage of raw files make this more viable.


And if Classic and CC ever converge, at least as one code base, as I expect (but without any indications from Adobe,) then the current lrcat may go away, and the desktop version of the converged product could easily be available in a multi-user version.  IF.


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