# SmugMug or Zenfolio?



## Yzerguy (Feb 15, 2008)

Hi all,

Still plugging away here, learning LR as time allows (there's never enough time for things we like to do!), still tons to learn.  

I was half way through a long winded explanation of what I'm trying to do, then realized it was way too long to expect to get help, so I deleted it all:

I was using Phanfare as my photo hosting website of choice, but they have made a major upgrade that has left me deciding to leave it alone (can explain if anyone is interested, but I doubt that).

In researching my options, I narrowed down my choices to either SmugMug or Zenfolio, and this was _before_ I figured out LR has plugins for both.  Export straight to the gallery???  EXCELLLLENT!  That wasn't even a criteria I was aware of until 1' mins ago. :roll: 

The bulk of my shots will be for friends/family to see (at least for time being as I get better with LR, PS and my camera), but I'll want to post some shots for clients as well as I get this figured out.

I definitely *don't* want to force anyone to register with a website to see my photos (this is now the case with Phanfare).  Both SmugMug and Zenfolio appear to support this.

I also would like unique URLs for any particular gallery, photo etc, and the ability to password protect any particular gallery (or photo, but I'd be fine with just gallery PWs).  This is normally just to email to people but also to deep link to blogs, etc.

The one thing I can't seem to find that Phanfare did offer (still does, but need to register) is the ability to add music to play with slideshows.  This isn't a deal breaker for me, but it would be nice.

I realize both have full featured trial versions, and to do proper due diligence I suppose I should install both and put them through their paces.  As alluded to earlier, time is always short so...  

Does anyone have any glowing recommendations or harsh criticisms on either or both of these sites?  Is there any glaring differences between the two?  Am I missing other solutions?

I don't mind paying for a good product, I believe you get what you pay for.

Any/all feedback appreciated.

Cheers, Sean


----------



## awilliamsny (Feb 15, 2008)

Hi, I'm from SmugMug - I'm sure you'll get lots of suggestions on our service and the excellent Zenfolio, but one thing I wanted you to be aware of is SmuggLr - you can migrate your photos from Phanfare to SmugMug automatically through the click of a few buttons  Get SmuggLr here.  It's a Firefox browser add-on program, and works great.  Oh and don't forget the 5'% phanfare coupon.  Holler if we can help more.


----------



## DonRicklin (Feb 15, 2008)

Hello, awilliamsny, welcome to our Forum.  I hope you will have more of a presense here than just a plug for your site. Please fill in your Signature with appropriate system and LR info. 

Become a real member of this forum and stick around to ask and answer questions with respect to Lightroom (and it interaction with SmugMug or other issues). 


Don


----------



## Steve Holmes (Feb 15, 2008)

Hi Sean,

I use Zenfolio for my site for friends and family, and I've been very happy with it. I like the default layout options better than SmugMug. SmugMug give you a bit more control for customizing the layout, but that isn't something I needed for my personal site. I've been very happy with the perfomance of Zenfolio.

-Steve


----------



## jkhasson (Feb 16, 2008)

I've been on SmugMug for several years, and have nothing but praise for the folks there.  It is a very good service.  The forums for SmugMug users at Digital Grin have been a wealth of information.

Never tried Zenfolio.


----------



## Yzerguy (Feb 16, 2008)

Thx everyone for the feedback.  After more research I'm leaning towards SmugMug, they appear to have superior customer support (that observation is independent of awilliamsny's post, but I considered that as well) -- that said I will still load both trial versions to make sure I'm not missing any features, see how each integrates into workflow and all that.



> one thing I wanted you to be aware of is SmuggLr - you can migrate your photos from Phanfare to SmugMug automatically through the click of a few buttons  Get SmuggLr here. It's a Firefox browser add-on program, and works great.



Thx awilliamsny...  That's good value added benefit for SmugMug users, although I'm not entirely sure I'd take advantage of it -- all photos I have at Phanfare are backed up on my HD, plus I've gotten a little better at post processing.  I plan to take the time to sift through what I've got, tweak a few and get rid of older photos that aren't of use anymore.  Even if I migrate everything from Phanfare I'd still have to download the photos I want to update and re-upload, so the work levels would be close to a push.



> Oh and don't forget the 5'% phanfare coupon



Thx, I'll definitely look into that, wasn't aware it existed.  

Also, per Don's comment, I'd also like to add that I'd encourage you to participate here from time to time.  While a plug is good thing for SmugMug (and helped me out as well), there are lots of others here who could benefit from your participation, not to mention it could potentially drive traffic to SmugMug and give you guys another ear-to-the-ground about what works or doesn't for the end user as well.  I'll post my experiences here after I've had a chance to trial everything.

Thanks to Steve and jkhasson for your thoughts as well.

Cheers, Sean


----------



## SloYerRoll (Feb 16, 2008)

The infamous answer... 
Depends. 
Zenfolio has a quite a few nice templates and have some package discounts. 
SmugMug is completely "div'd out" so you can modify it through CSS and FF WebDev tools. 

Either way you go. If you want to really make your site custom. You need to know code or be willing to hire someone (like me) to customize your site for  you. The only real difference is that Zenfolio uses XHTML to customize and SmugMug uses CSS. 

My opinion. SmugMug is way better. It's way easier to work w/ CSS than HTML if you're just learning. Not to mention that they have created a great community over at dgrin.com (I don't mind posting this since I came over from a mod's invite that posted over there)

If you have any technical questions before you take the plunge. I'll be happy to help.. 

Comment to mods:
I've updated my sig like a good poster but it didn't propagate through your server until after this post...


----------



## DonRicklin (Feb 16, 2008)

SloYerRoll;8'11 said:
			
		

> Comment to mods:
> I've updated my sig like a good poster but it didn't propagate through your server until after this post...


YOu can fix that with the appropriate check box below the Edit Text Box on *Edit.

*P.s.,kinda wish we had the wild emoticons Dgrin has! :cheesy:

Don


----------



## billg71 (Feb 19, 2008)

I went with Smugmug, FWIW. They have a lot of templates for your galleries that are easy to use and you can password protect individual galleries. You can link to individual galleries but you have to be a Pro member to use your own host name.

I'm not an HTML person, but with the tutorials I was able to finally get a custom header with a photo for my gallery.

Here's mine: http://billg71.smugmug.com/ Take a look.


----------



## Ian Farlow (Feb 19, 2008)

billg71 said:


> I went with Smugmug, FWIW. They have a lot of templates for your galleries that are easy to use and you can password protect individual galleries. You can link to individual galleries but you have to be a Pro member to use your own host name.
> 
> I'm not an HTML person, but with the tutorials I was able to finally get a custom header with a photo for my gallery.
> 
> Here's mine: http://billg71.smugmug.com/ Take a look.



Very nice work there.


----------



## billg71 (Feb 19, 2008)

Ian Farlow said:


> Very nice work there.



Thanks, Ian! I try to keep the really crappy stuff at home.....


----------



## Yzerguy (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback Bill, thinking it'll be SmugMug for me for ease of use, I'll finalize that hopefully tomorrow when I can check one last detail.

I'm also with Ian, nice work in the galleries...  shooting in the aquarium can be tricky, nice shots!

Cheers, Sean


----------



## Ham1 (Feb 21, 2008)

SloYerRoll;8'11 said:
			
		

> If you have any technical questions before you take the plunge. I'll be happy to help..



I have found that these two tutorials seem to help most people with the majority of their SmugMug customization wants.  

#1) Banner and Navbar:   http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/216''39

#2) Slick Flash slideshow: http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/3624147

You need to copy and paste a bunch of code 

There are plenty of people to help every step of the way.


----------



## Yzerguy (Feb 23, 2008)

For those who may have been interested.

I've used trial versions of both SmugMug and Zenfolio, I'm going with SmugMug.

Things that impress _me_ about SmugMug:

- Tons of help, lots of it personal:  I emailed their generic help address at 8:17 pm PST to follow up on some of the points Andy Williams (awilliamsny, GM and "house pro" of SmugMug) has been making here in this forum.   

Andy (or someone emulating him, although I doubt that) replied at 8:22 with responses to all of my questions.

Also their own forum, dgrin.com.  Hugely informative and helpful community.  Even their website http://www.smugmug.com is full of more info than any other photo hosting website I've seen.  Info is as simple or complicated as you need it to be, easy for both Mac and Windows users to follow.

- Downsizing algorithm rocks:  As with most quality photo hosting sites, SmugMug makes your original photo available to view/download. But thumbs and smaller copies for display on the web are automatically downsized and sharpened from the original using the Lanczos algorithm -- from what I've seen so far (mostly other people's shots, but a few of mine), this is good, very good.  Power and Pro users can muck with the settings for this as well.  More info here.

-  Customization appears easy (see other posts in this thread).  I'm not at that stage yet, but I've seen lots of examples, and I'll get there, I look forward to it.

-  Easy privacy, unless you don't want it:  It's easy to have some galleries out there on the web with spiders crawling all over your metadata and such (SmugMug usually mentions Google), but it's also easy to lock down galleries for private consumption only, such as between family/friends...  passwords or just private URLs, your choice.  Lots of sites do this, but SmugMug makes it easier to do, IMHO.

There are tons of other features that I haven't mentioned. So far these ones are the ones that mean the most to me.  Can't say enough about the help, be it in person, in the forum or on the website itself.  Image quality is great.

One feature I haven't tried is the Firefox extension that allows you to import all of your photos from Flickr, Phanfare, Picasa, Photosite directly to your SmugMug galleries.  I may get around to using it to move my Phanfare photos, maybe not, but it's a great feature if you're thinking you'd like better quality photos on-line, no ads/spam and/or more control.  FWIW Zenfolio has great on-line IQ on their downsizing as well, but SmugMug has (so far) been much more helpful and provide more info upfront to begin with.  Just signed up with my (real) email to start my working galleries after running the trials.

Hope this helps a few people, let me know if I can answer any other questions.  I see there's been some interest here (outside this thread) in SmugMug printing, language and other features.

Jon, I may be asking you more questions soon too.  

Cheers, Sean


----------



## Victoria Bampton (Feb 23, 2008)

Thanks for the review Sean.  It's good to hear from reasons behind WHY you choose one or the other, instead of the usual 'I'm with..."


----------



## Yzerguy (Feb 24, 2008)

Hey Victoria,

No worries, my pleasure.  Technically I wasn't trying to provide a proper review, but I did want to leave some feedback having asked the original question.  

A full review would involve a much longer post, plus my needs will differ from many others, I think most here are capable and willing to do their own research to fit their own needs, but if I can provide further feedback for anyone may be interested, let me know.  

A proper review would have also included drawbacks, there are a few small things that I wish SmugMug provided, again, it's user specific, so I won't get into it here.  For anyone who may want to discuss what I've found, or didn't find, drop me a line.

Cheers, Sean


----------



## znapper (Jun 18, 2009)

I've been a member of smugmug for a year now and just cancelled my pro membership and account, I am sorry to inform.

The main reason for this, is that during this year, I've been very busy with my regular work (I work in the IT industry and do a lot of photography on the side), in adittion to havin photography on the spare time. 
I was never able to find time to read the inzane amount of information about how smugmug works, how you customize stuff and so on. 

Smugmug is indeed very customizable, but for me, having limited time to spend reading how-to's, the amount of adjustments available just overwelmed me completely and I ended up with a partially used default gallery which was never updated and not used the way I wanted to (to be a web shop for my work with a cool layout).

I wish smugmug would provide a "basic" mode and one "advanced" mode, where all the buttons and menu's and god knows what could be reduced to a bare minimum, so that one was able to actually learn how the functionality and customizing worked first.

I mean, for $15' per year, one whould at least have some themes that didn't just changed the colors and fonts, but changed the layout completely and so on, programming all this in CSS is too time consuming (atleast for me) and I was put off by this every time I actually had some time to look into the site.

I never tried their printing service (due to my site never being "finished" for production), but I am sure it is very good. A slight negative point is that they do not provide metric dimensions for prints, this can be a problem for my customers or european based photographers (I am from europe), as we dont use feet and inches over here. 
- Putting out information about this would demand a customisation of my site, which again would demand that I had to read trough and spend time on the how-to's etc etc.

SmugMug is very good, IF you have the time to spend reading how-to's and forum threads (imo), but it is in my view very messy due to all the knobs, adjustments and stuff, very hard to figure out how to make things sleek, simple and effective. For me, working in the IT industry, it should have been a breeze to relate to smugmug (allthough I am not a web/html programmer), but I was just put off by the avalance of information and at times messy user interface.

Maybe zenfolio is better....I don't know, I just need a nice looking webshop for my photos, customizable in a easy, non complicated way, not the space shuttle program. :roll:


----------

