# Face Tags in Lightroom CC not working !



## Ross Parker (Jan 18, 2019)

I'm looking for help ! Here's the story: I have 2,000 photos with 4,000 face tags running on Lightroom 6. I tried the 7 day trial version of Lightroom Classic CC 8.1 and Lightroom CC 2.1.1
Face tags went to Classic 8.1 just fine, but, they did NOT go to CC on the web. 10 calls to Adobe Tech Help resulted in "face tags now don't work on the web. Only a few customers have it working. It can't be expanded to others until we issue an update/upgrade to CC 2.1. Just wait patiently for it. It will be a while". 
Does anybody know a work around? or tips to get my pictures with face tags onto the web?
Much thanks, Ross (West Vancouver, BC)


----------



## Jim Wilde (Jan 18, 2019)

Can you clarify the app that you're referring to? You've used the terms "CC on the web" and "CC 2.1", which are different applications. LRCC web does not yet support the People View, so no surprise that you can't see any face tags there. LRCC 2.1 is the desktop app which DOES have a People view and as far as I know it is not broken, despite what you may have been told by the Adobe rep.

However, the People view is dependant upon the face recognition software which only runs on the cloud server, and there were delays for many accounts in having that indexing done, so it wouldn't be surprising if face tags didn't appear during the course of a 7 day trial.


----------



## Ross Parker (Jan 18, 2019)

Thanks for contributing Jim. 
I'm glad to clarify.......I should have said "CC 2.1.1" instead of "CC 2.1" when I was referring to the  Adobe Tech Help saying "I have to wait for them to issue an update/upgrade"
What is disappointing and misleading is Adobe Sales and Tech Help saying "face tags is working on LRCC web", then later (when I can't get it working, and they take control of my computer to verify it is NOT working) they said "it's not working", then when I questioned why I was told that it was working they said "well, it's working for some customers, so the Sales rep wasn't lying". Then they said "we will close your Issue Tag, and will not advise me when it's fixed. I have to check myself using Google"
They encouraged me to buy the monthly program (for $360/yr) to give me access to a plan that doesn't deliver the main reason I'd pay, on the basis that I can cancel within 14 days, and I'd get notice when LRCC 2.1.1 is updated"
So, it's broken, there is no workaround, my Issue Tag is closed, and I have to do the followup.
Makes me think of when Google abandoned Picasa and Picasa Web Albums, that started me looking for another program to do face tags with an ability to back it up on the web. That cost be $150 to buy Lightroom 6, which now is not supported by the manufacturer Adobe. 
If I could find another supplier now,  I'd sure consider it !!.....Ross


----------



## Jim Wilde (Jan 18, 2019)

I don't really understand much of that discussion with the Adobe guy. Face tagging works perfectly well in LRCC2.1, the only issue is (was) the delay that a  few people experienced while waiting for the indexing to be done immediately following the update. It also works in the LRCC mobile apps (iOS/Android). The only place it hasn't yet appeared is in the LRCC web app.

I've seen no evidence lately that it is "broken".

I also don't understand the "$360 a year" comment. There are two variations of the Photography plan subscription, each starting at $9.99 per month (thus $120 per year). You'd only pay $360 per year if you needed 2 or 3 TB of cloud storage.


----------



## Ross Parker (Jan 18, 2019)

Thanks very much for your reply, Jim !!
I'm really glad that your experience is "it's not broken.  Face tags are showing just fine on LRCC 2.1.1"
Might you be one of those lucky customers that Adobe Tech said to me "LRCC face tags are working for a VERY few customers"?
If so, I'd like to be you !!
Adobe Tech Help says "it is NOT working, and there's no way they can get my experience to be like yours until the issue a update/upgrade to LRCC 2.1.1"
Does that make more sense to you?
Adobe Sales Help says "it's working! Want to buy a Plan?" Are you getting your "it's working" opinion from Adobe Sales Help?

You are correct about my math being suspect! My estimated annual cost would be $120 usd per year. It was 5am when it banged that out, and I didn't have my coffee yet. (poor excuse, I know)...thanks again for your reply.


----------



## Jim Wilde (Jan 18, 2019)

Ross Parker said:


> Are you getting your "it's working" opinion from Adobe Sales Help?


Absolutely not! My "it's working" opinion comes from the fact that I've been using it since it was first implemented in LRCC 2.0, and from the fact that there has been nothing on any of the forums since then to the effect that "it's not working", either in 2.0, 2.1 or 2.1.1. The only teething problem that affected some users was the slower than expected indexing done by the central servers, but I know of no other issues since then. Quite why Adobe Tech tells you it's not working is beyond my comprehension, though again I would point to some terminology confusion where "LRCC web" is mentioned.....that is a different app to LRCC 2.1.1, and it does NOT have People view implemented. But People View in LRCC desktop (2.1.1) and LRCC iOS (4.1) and LRCC Android (4.1) is most definitely working once the indexing has been done.


----------



## Ross Parker (Jan 18, 2019)

Thanks again, Jim......you might have hit at the heart of an issue being terminology, except that Adobe Tech Help expected face tags to be working on the cloud. It sounds like LRCC 2.1.1 is the app (either sending to the cloud, or receiving from my desktop) that they say is the cause of the problem. 
Face Tags are working on LR6, and LRClassicCC 8.1 both on my desktop, but they are not on the cloud (and they should be). Thanks again, Ross


----------



## Jim Wilde (Jan 18, 2019)

OK, that's a different discussion. Face recognition works in LRCC 2.x, period. It also works in LR6/Classic, though it's a different implementation. But....the face recognition data that you might have created in LR6/Classic does NOT sync to the cloud, nor is it currently likely to until/unless Adobe have a change of heart. They are on record as saying that they do not intend to invest any further in syncing data from Classic to the cloud, so if that's what you were hoping for then you're going to be disappointed. There is only a narrow subset of metadata which does sync between Classic and LRCC, but face data isn't part of that, I'm afraid.

If you sync your LR6/Classic images to the cloud, LRCC will run its face detection engine on those images (which is actually a better detection engine than LR6/Classic's) so you'd need to go through the naming/organising process again.

The only thing that I can't remember is what happens if you *migrate* a Classic catalog (with face data) to LRCC....I did test this scenario but can't recall exactly what happens. If I get time I'll try to revisit the situation again.


----------



## Jim Wilde (Jan 18, 2019)

Jim Wilde said:


> The only thing that I can't remember is what happens if you *migrate* a Classic catalog (with face data) to LRCC....I did test this scenario but can't recall exactly what happens. If I get time I'll try to revisit the situation again.



From a quick test, it seems that face tags in Classic will transfer over to LRCC if the containing Classic catalog is migrated (not synced). Migration is intended as a one way process, i.e. migrating all assets out of Classic into LRCC with the intention of not using Classic any more.


----------



## prbimages (Jan 19, 2019)

RE: Face tagging in the Android app

I have found two problems:

1. It sees and recognises some faces, but is not processing them properly and doesn't offer them for naming. For example: I might have a group shot of, say, six people. Four are recognised by the software, but two are not. The "Info" view shows icons for all six people, four of them with names and two without names (so it recognises that they are all valid faces) but the two unnamed people do not appear in the "People" view, nor in the "Show and Hide People" view. So there is no way to put a name to these faces, nor to browse them on the "People" page.

2. When sorting the "People" view by last name, people who share the same last name are shown in a seemingly random order - for example, Paul appears before Graham who appears before Kyle who appears before Andrew.

Are these known problems?


----------



## Jim Wilde (Jan 19, 2019)

1. By design the People View only shows clusters of unnamed faces if there are at least 5 instances of the face, so that may explain what you are seeing (or rather not seeing!). If you come across such a face and you name it via the Keyword panel in LRCC desktop, that named face should then appear in the main People View.

2. Could it be that when the last name is the same for a bunch of faces, there's a sub-sort by photo count? That's how it appears on my Android phone, though interestingly it's different on LRCC desktop  and LRCC iOS (sub-sort by First Name when Last Name is the same).


----------



## Ross Parker (Jan 19, 2019)

Jim Wilde said:


> From a quick test, it seems that face tags in Classic will transfer over to LRCC if the containing Classic catalog is migrated (not synced). Migration is intended as a one way process, i.e. migrating all assets out of Classic into LRCC with the intention of not using Classic any more.


Thanks VERY much again, Jim.....(you are my "best friend" on helping me with this HUGE issue <----- "huge" for me)
So, tell me if I've got this straight: you would be shocked/amazed if Adobe Lightroom ever got face tags (coming from a Lightroom product) onto our Lightroom Cloud. Have I got that right......certainly LRCC 2.1.1 does not do it, and you believe that Adobe development staff are not working on providing this feature.....much thanks, Jim !!


----------



## Jim Wilde (Jan 19, 2019)

Still not sure you've got completely straight. You can already, since LRCC 2.0, have face recognition data "in the cloud", because LRCC 2.x has its own face recognition feature, just as LR Classic does. What you *cannot* do is have any face recognition data that you have created in LR Classic *sync* to LRCC, because the syncing capabilities between Classic and LRCC are limited and at this time it appears that Adobe are not willing to invest development effort into improving those syncing capabilities. I don't know that I'd be "shocked/amazed" if Adobe were to do a u-turn over this, but I would be very pleasantly surprised if they did.

But what you *can* do is use the catalog migration feature to transfer *all* Classic data (including face recognition) to LRCC, but that is intended as a one-time, one-way transfer. Or you can import your images directly into LRCC and have that app do its own face recognition indexing.

A question for you: what is it that hope to achieve by having face recognition data "in the cloud"?


----------



## Ross Parker (Jan 19, 2019)

Good stuff, Jim !!
What I want to  do is:
-not data re-enter all my FR data that is in my current data base of 3,000 jpeg's with 5,000 people recognized, and...
-get it to a cloud site, so that...
-my daughter who lives in a 'foreign land' (Ontario vs me in BC) can access/view/edit (perhaps with my logon info) the pictures w/FR.
Make sense?
(when I die, my "gift" to my kids/grandkids will be: our Family Tree in Ancestry (which is on their cloud now) and this cloud of pictures w/FR...so, it's a big deal to me. ....BTW "by the way": dieing is not in my short term future plan. Although I am going out on the Pacific Ocean  later this morning to continue my training as a First Responder for marine emergencies!!)


----------



## Jim Wilde (Jan 19, 2019)

So where is that FR data currently held? In Classic or outside, e.g. Picasa? If it's in Classic you can get it into LRCC via catalog migration, but not by syncing. But if it's not in any Adobe app yet, I believe there's no way to get that data into LRCC without doing the data re-entry (though to be honest, it's a lot less daunting than it sounds).

But once it's in LRCC, it's of little use to your daughter unless you do give her access to your logon info.....basically there's no current way of accessing/viewing that FR data outside of your own account (which is not untypical of most other applications either).


----------



## Ross Parker (Jan 19, 2019)

The FR data is in LRClassic (and it's in Picasa3 too, but let's work with LR unless Picasa3 is better for my goal, but I think LR is better.)
I have no problem giving my logon info to my daughter, because (remember) I'll be dead !!
So, are you saying Jim: I can get my jpegs with FR to LRCC (via catalog migration) and my daughter can see it?......Ross


----------



## Jim Wilde (Jan 19, 2019)

Ross Parker said:


> So, are you saying Jim: I can get my jpegs with FR to LRCC (via catalog migration) and my daughter can see it?......Ross


Yes, I'm saying that's what should happen, and does when I test it. But be aware that the two face detection functions are different, for example in Classic you can manually draw a face region and tag it, but you can't do that in LRCC. And I haven't checked how LRCC deals with such a face region when you migrate a catalog. Also understand that when you finish a catalog migration, LRCC will still run the face indexing again, so any face regions which you may have deleted in Classic will likely still be identified as a valid unnamed face in LRCC, requiring some action of your part. By and large, it worked well in my testing, but that's still no guarantee that it'll work just as well for you.


----------



## Ross Parker (Jan 20, 2019)

that sounds pretty darn good, Jim !!
So, I would "catalog migrate" my photos to LRCC and my daughter could see them w/FR on the web (If I gave her my login details)....Right?
(she wouldn't be able to create a missed FR person using the manual draw feature, and deleted FR might come up as "unknown person" or something like that)
I hate to ask you what might be the same question again, but, is that right?
This might be a "waahoo" moment for me !!


----------



## Jim Wilde (Jan 20, 2019)

Nope, still not quite right.....go back to one of my earlier posts where I said that the People View feature has NOT yet been implemented in the LRCC Web app. So if you want your daughter to be able to see the FR data then at the very least she'll need to use LRCC on an iOS or Android phone or tablet (using your login details, which I think technically could be in breach of the license agreement). Better still would be to run the LRCC desktop app on her computer, as that is currently the only app that lets you see the actual frames on tagged faces....the others don't have that feature.

However, the issue with that might be (for you) that the subscription only allows for two activations on "desktop" computers, so giving your daughter one of them restricts you to one system as well. The "mobile" versions, however, are unrestricted (I think) as of course is the web version.


----------



## Ross Parker (Jan 20, 2019)

FANTASTIC, Jim.......thanks (I guess that's why I was abit skeptical that I had it right, and took the chance to bug you again re: clarification!)
The 2 activations on the 1 subscription IS the way I'll go.
Help me just one more time, then I'm off to find out how to "catalog migrate"
After I buy the Photographic Plan from Adobe, and then  "catalog migrate"my data from LR6  to LRCC  on my laptop in Vancouver, BC, and assign one of the activations to her email address, ......how  does she see the pictures w/FR on her laptop in Kingston, Ont?
Is the data on Adobe's server under LRCC with FR, and that's where she goes when she uses her subscription?


----------



## Jim Wilde (Jan 20, 2019)

Is your FR data in LR6, or did you also upgrade the catalog into the trial of LR Classic? IIRC, you can only migrate a Classic catalog into LRCC, so if you haven't done that you'll need to do that first.

Then, after you've purchased your subscription plan you would install the latest version of the LRCC desktop app (currently 2.1.1). Once launched for the first time it will of course be empty so you would do File>Migrate Lightroom Catalog and point to the Classic catalog. Let it do its thing, you'll then see all the images in the catalog appear in the LRCC app, and they will then start to upload to the cloud. One point here: which plan were you thinking of subscribing to? Whichever one you choose, make sure you have one with enough cloud space to contain all your image files.

When you are satisfied that you have the data into the cloud, if you or your daughter logs in to the same Adobe Account on a different system, sets up the CC Desktop app, and downloads and installs the LRCC desktop app, when opening the app for the first time on that second system you will see the exact same data, with the same capabilities, as on your first system, i.e. you would be accessing the same cloud data in exactly the same way.


----------



## Ross Parker (Jan 20, 2019)

Wahoo, Jim.....PERFECT !! 
I'm going to do this !!
One further question re: my understanding of why you are brilliant......why can you say in this latest paragraph "LRCC will load to the cloud", and "Daughter would be accessing the data on the cloud", with before you said (I think) "Face Tags will not work on LRCC Cloud/web".  Is there a difference that makes both statements true? I suspect "yes", but I guess I don't understand what it is, and maybe I don't need to understand it.
Much thanks, Jim !!!.....Ross


----------



## Jim Wilde (Jan 20, 2019)

The LRCC "ecosystem" has at the heart the image data that you upload (which can be from multiple sources). There are various apps which can access that data and upload new images, though each app may have some slight differences in functionality (largely because they were developed over different timescales)....but they all access the same data. In terms of FR, the LRCC desktop app is far richer in functionality than LRCC for Android, which in turn is slightly richer in FR functionality than LRCC for iOS. LRCC Web (access via browser), however, currently has NO FR functionality....you can still access the albums/images, edit them, view and edit other metadata, but the People view hasn't been implemented yet so you can't see any FR data. OTOH, it's the best app for setting up album sharing. Part of the "fun" is learning (and trying to remember) the differences.


----------



## Ross Parker (Jan 20, 2019)

Thank you very much, Jim !!
My next step is to do the Adobe LRClassic and LRCC trial again, and do the catalog migrate step......take care, much thanks for your coaching and patience....Ross


----------



## prbimages (Jan 20, 2019)

Jim Wilde said:


> What you *cannot* do is have any face recognition data that you have created in LR Classic *sync* to LRCC, because the syncing capabilities between Classic and LRCC are limited ...


You can sort of "fudge it", which is what I was doing before the "People" view was implemented. After doing facial recognition in Classic, people's names are added as keywords for each image. These keywords WILL sync to the cloud, as long as the keywords are added BEFORE the first sync. Then if you share an album with "Show metadata" ticked, anyone viewing the images can pull up the info tab and see the keywords. Certainly not ideal, but it does work. The main thing to remember is to do all your keywording (and face tagging) before syncing. (And note that you cannot then edit the keywords, since subsequent edits do NOT sync.)


----------



## Ross Parker (Jan 18, 2019)

I'm looking for help ! Here's the story: I have 2,000 photos with 4,000 face tags running on Lightroom 6. I tried the 7 day trial version of Lightroom Classic CC 8.1 and Lightroom CC 2.1.1
Face tags went to Classic 8.1 just fine, but, they did NOT go to CC on the web. 10 calls to Adobe Tech Help resulted in "face tags now don't work on the web. Only a few customers have it working. It can't be expanded to others until we issue an update/upgrade to CC 2.1. Just wait patiently for it. It will be a while". 
Does anybody know a work around? or tips to get my pictures with face tags onto the web?
Much thanks, Ross (West Vancouver, BC)


----------



## prbimages (Jan 20, 2019)

Jim Wilde said:


> 1. By design the People View only shows clusters of unnamed faces if there are at least 5 instances of the face, so that may explain what you are seeing (or rather not seeing!). If you come across such a face and you name it via the Keyword panel in LRCC desktop, that named face should then appear in the main People View.


Thanks Jim, that makes sense. Didn't know about the "5 instances" thing. I haven't actually installed LRCC yet, but will give it a try sometime.



Jim Wilde said:


> 2. Could it be that when the last name is the same for a bunch of faces, there's a sub-sort by photo count? That's how it appears on my Android phone, though interestingly it's different on LRCC desktop and LRCC iOS (sub-sort by First Name when Last Name is the same).


Yes, that appears to be correct (I should have spotted it). Hopefully the Android app will be changed to behave the same way as LRCC desktop and iOS, which makes much more sense.

And sorry for kind-off sidetracking this thread a bit ...


----------



## Ross Parker (Jan 22, 2019)

As per my previous comment outlining my go forward plan, here's an update:
-I contacted Adobe Tech Help and whined while referencing my case number with them, and my need to get another 7 day trial before I bought a plan.
-I got another 7 day trial !! (good on them!!)
-with the help of the Help Tech, we did a "catelog migrate" to LRCC and the face tags did not show up there. (maybe no surprise)
-he recommended that I create a new collection in LR6,  export this collection as a catalog to a folder on my laptop HD, create a zip file of that folder, share it to Adobe Creative Cloud ("dashboard"). 
-then share that link via email to my Daughter in  "the foreign land of Ontario"
-my  subscription to Photo Plan will allow 2 separate machines to access ACC (Adobe Creative Cloud, dashboard)
-she will be able to open and download pictures with FT's to her LRClassic. She will likely need a subscription too.
-she must make zero incorrect changes to the pictures/FT's because that will change my data base in ACC.
Does that make sense to you, Jim?
I'm enthused charging forward !!......I suspect some sharp curves in the road ahead, but I'm hopeful.....Ross


----------



## Ross Parker (Jan 24, 2019)

UPDATE: I have abandoned my 18 month quest to use Adobe Lightroom to be the tool to identify and store Face Tags !
For the last week I have called their India based CS and Tech Service about 10 times, and have been fundamentally mislead  by staff, supervisors and managers. I will stop investing my time in trying to figure out how they can meet THEIR obligations to me. My overarching concern is that it won't be me working with Lightroom6, Lightroom Classic CC, and Lightroom CC, and their Photography Plan, it will be my daughter (after I die: see post above). Maybe in a few years they will get their act together. Maybe in a few years they will abandon FT and FR like Google did.....I'm DONE with Adobe and Lightroom.  
Although I'm disappointed that I can't use a big corporation to support my needs, (I will go back to Picasa3, which is not supported), I am comfortable with my decision and at least I have a clear path forward......thanks to this forum, especially Jim from England who helped me soooooo much....Ross Parker


----------

