# Is there any point in backing up the Lightroom (cloudy) Library?



## mikebore (Jun 18, 2020)

My understanding is that Lightroom Cloudy only uploads the original (unedited) photos to the Adobe Cloud. The edits and album info are in the Library.

As far as I can tell the Cloudy Library is also in the Adobe Cloud, because when I have cloned a drive containing the Library, and then tried to open the cloned Library, I get a message "cloned Library detected". The resolution is to delete the Library and sign in to download a new copy.  Similarly on a new computer it is only necessary to sign in and the Library downloads. Both times these have worked well.

Because the cloned library is 'rejected' with the cloned library message, there doesn't  seem to be any point in making a local backup of the Library.  Is that correct? Are there any circumstances where a local backup copy of the Library could be useful?

(I don't keep a local copy of the Cloudy originals because my Cloudy is sync'd with my Classic which has all the originals locally, with local and offsite backups).


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## Jim Wilde (Jun 19, 2020)

mikebore said:


> Are there any circumstances where a local backup copy of the Library could be useful?


None that I can think of. As you say, if something goes wrong with the local library it can be reconstituted easily enough from the cloud master library.....and there's no obvious way to replace the local library with a backup (though there probably isn't much point in doing that apart from saving the download time to recreate the library from the cloud).            

Having said that, I do in fact backup my local library....but only because I've never bothered to exclude it from the backup plan.


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## mikebore (Jun 19, 2020)

Thanks very much for confirming Jim.


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## Johan Elzenga (Jun 19, 2020)

I believe that replacing the local library by a backup copy doesn't even work. Lightroom will tell you it is invalid and will reconstruct the library from the cloud anyway. That's a pity if you changed a few hundred images by mistake and hoped to undo that by using an older backup.


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## mikebore (Jun 19, 2020)

Johan Elzenga said:


> I believe that replacing the local library by a backup copy doesn't even work. Lightroom will tell you it is invalid and will reconstruct the library from the cloud anyway. That's a pity if you changed a few hundred images by mistake and hoped to undo that by using an older backup.



Yes thanks, that really why I was asking. As you say pity if you made a mistake. I am a bit surprised this hasn't been more of an issue for the anti-cloud brigade ....no back up catalog.


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## johnbeardy (Jun 19, 2020)

Johan Elzenga said:


> That's a pity if you changed a few hundred images by mistake and hoped to undo that by using an older backup.



More than a pity, it shows Cloudy isn't a serious tool.


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## mikebore (Jun 19, 2020)

Johan Elzenga said:


> That's a pity if you changed a few hundred images by mistake and hoped to undo that by using an older backup.



This poses a question. Suppose I made some wrong edits in Cloudy, these edits will sync to Classic. Can I then restore a backup Classic catalog to recover from the wrong edits? Correct edits should sync back to Cloudy?


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## johnbeardy (Jun 19, 2020)

It should work, though LR might recognise it's a backup catalogue and try to send down those wrong edits again.
But having Classic in the game gives you opportunities to restore or recover from errors. For instance, use the History panel for smaller volumes. Or you can do a File > Import from Another Catalog to bring a backup catalogue's edits into your synced catalogue.


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## mikebore (Jun 19, 2020)

johnbeardy said:


> It should work, though LR might recognise it's a backup catalogue and try to send down those wrong edits again.
> But having Classic in the game gives you opportunities to restore or recover from errors. For instance, use the History panel for smaller volumes. Or you can do a File > Import from Another Catalog to bring a backup catalogue's edits into your synced catalogue.


 Yes I realise having Classic involved changes the picture, and is not how Adobe expects or wants most Cloudy users to work, but it is a new venture for me so learning.  So most Cloudy users have no way back from wrong edits.


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## Johan Elzenga (Jun 19, 2020)

The only thing you can do is regularly save a snapshot. That is new in version 3.3.


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## mikebore (Jun 19, 2020)

Johan Elzenga said:


> The only thing you can do is regularly save a snapshot. That is new in version 3.3.


 Thanks. As I read Victoria's What's New, it is on a picture by picture basis and you would have to make multiple snapshots just before making the editing errors? Maybe that is a misinterpretation. I am not familiar with snapshots in Classic which she says are similar.


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## clee01l (Jun 19, 2020)

I would see merit is backing up the Lr (cloudy) library package folder along with everything else on the disk,  If your disk fails, the you can restore the whole disk from a backup and in theory be able to resume where you left off when the disk failed.   
I'm not sure how Adobe in the cloud would treat that replaced disk wrt the Lightroom Library package folder  but it certainly would  simplify your system backup and recovery.


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## mikebore (Jun 19, 2020)

clee01l said:


> I'm not sure how Adobe in the cloud would treat that replaced disk wrt the Lightroom Library package folder  but it certainly would  simplify your system backup and recovery.



It rejects it, and tells you to delete it and download a new copy from the Cloud. Recovery from a disk failure or setting up a new computer is extremely easy with Cloudy. No migrating of files, just sign in.


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## clee01l (Jun 19, 2020)

mikebore said:


> It rejects it, and tells you to delete it and download a new copy from the Cloud. Recovery from a disk failure or setting up a new computer is extremely easy with Cloudy. No migrating of files, just sign in.



As I suspected, however, you still need to rebuild all of the other files and folders on the replacement disk 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Jim Wilde (Jun 19, 2020)

I did a quick test earlier.....created a copy of the local library, then applied an "erroneous" ratings change to a bunch of images. Closed LR, deleted the local library and restored from the earlier backup. LR then restarted with no issues, but of course it immediately updated the local library with the erroneous ratings from before the restore. That didn't surprise me, as if there's a conflict between the local client and the cloud catalog, the cloud would win.

I really do think the user is dependent upon Adobe to give us a cloud catalog restore capability, I don't think it's in our power to recover via the local library.


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## clee01l (Jun 19, 2020)

Jim Wilde said:


> I did a quick test earlier.....created a copy of the local library, then applied an "erroneous" ratings change to a bunch of images. Closed LR, deleted the local library and restored from the earlier backup. LR then restarted with no issues, but of course it immediately updated the local library with the erroneous ratings from before the restore. That didn't surprise me, as if there's a conflict between the local client and the cloud catalog, the cloud would win.
> 
> I really do think the user is dependent upon Adobe to give us a cloud catalog restore capability, I don't think it's in our power to recover via the local library.



This is just one more feature that holds Lr apart from LrC. 
I think this shortcoming in Lightroom cloudy deserves a feature request on the Adobe site. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mikebore (Jun 19, 2020)

Jim Wilde said:


> I did a quick test earlier.....created a copy of the local library, then applied an "erroneous" ratings change to a bunch of images. Closed LR, deleted the local library and restored from the earlier backup. LR then restarted with no issues, but of course it immediately updated the local library with the erroneous ratings from before the restore. That didn't surprise me, as if there's a conflict between the local client and the cloud catalog, the cloud would win.
> 
> I really do think the user is dependent upon Adobe to give us a cloud catalog restore capability, I don't think it's in our power to recover via the local library.



So you were able to use the local library from an earlier backup with no issues? It is a while since I got the cloned library message and can't recall the details, except the linked solution was to delete it and redownload. (I realise your point is that it didn't help because it was overwritten by the cloud).

When you restore files from iCloud you can chose a date from with the last 30 days, so I assume your last suggestion is something like that from Adobe.


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## Johan Elzenga (Jun 19, 2020)

mikebore said:


> Thanks. As I read Victoria's What's New, it is on a picture by picture basis and you would have to make multiple snapshots just before making the editing errors?


Yes, if you know you are going to make an error, create a snapshot first. 

Seriously; you could make it a habit to create a snapshot when you're happy with what you've done.


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