# grey and hazy



## camner (Aug 3, 2013)

I live in the Pacific Northwest, which means that for about 6-7 months of the year (more in a bad year, sigh) high clouds and grey skys are what we get.  We also have some very stunning scenery!

The image I'm including here is a "not atypical" PNW image....A gorgeous mountain rising from sea level over the water.  As I remember the scene, while it was grey, there was a lot more "punch" to the reality than is reflected in the image.  The mountain was far sharper and more detailed, and the haze very prominent in the image was a lot less in reality.

Since the original scene was not a "killer scene," the corrected image won't be, either, which is fine.  But surely one can correct the image in a way that adds life to it.

This jpg is exported from a completely uncorrected RAW file imported with no import presets (other than the default that LR 5 applied).  There is definitely detail info in the sky (not color, but tone), which I can tell by moving the Highlights slider to the left.  The histogram shows no clipping at either end.

Increasing clarity helps, but not as much as I'd like.  Vibrance, which often adds "punch" to an image, simply increases the blue effect of the blue band at the middle distance (there's the shoreline, the middle hills--the blue band--and the mountains in the distance) which looks unnatural.  Increasing the Shadows slider helps bring out details in the foreground trees, which is nice, but the point of the shot are the mountains, of course...the foreground trees only providing some framing.

This kind of starting point is very common for me, and I am simply not satisfied with what I can do with it. Do folks have any suggestions/guidelines for dealing with this kind of starting point?


----------



## Jimmsp (Aug 3, 2013)

I agree, that's a tough one. I just played with the jpeg, both in LR 5.2, as well as with Topaz Detail and Clarity. While I can "improve", I'm not really thrilled with my final.
I can knock the haze down by selecting desaturating the blues some, which in combo with clarity helps.
Actually, a simple black and white conversion of my best looks pretty decent.

And have you tried approaching these with HDR, at least tone mapping? Sometimes an underexposed shot can bring out the cloud structure pretty well.

You can use the selection brush and process the sky a lot differently from everything else.


----------



## camner (Aug 3, 2013)

Thanks Jimmsp for taking a stab at this.  I haven't done much B&W conversion, but I agree it does give a decent look to the image.

I suppose in a way I'm glad to know that this isn't an easy image...then I'm not just being stupid.  Then again, if I were just being stupid, someone could point that out and I'd have a solution!


----------



## camner (Aug 4, 2013)

So I tried myself and came up with this:


I still don't like the blue hazy band at the middle distance, but this is the best I can do.  Perhaps this is a good example of the limitation that a poor starting point capture is.  But I couldn't change the look of the day!


----------



## Chris_M (Aug 4, 2013)

Create a Virtual Copy of your original, and try the contrast, blacks and clarity sliders.
That helped a bit with pictures I had from a nightclub with lots of smoke (call it haze) in them.


----------



## erro (Aug 4, 2013)

Anything that increase the contrast will probably help. Try using both the global sliders, and also some local brush adjustments.


----------



## LouieSherwin (Aug 4, 2013)

Hi,

You don't show the histogram for this image but since it a pretty low contrast image to start with I suspect that there is quite a bit of room at each end. You might want to start by setting the white and black point using the White and Black sliders. If you hold down the <option> (Alt on PC) as you drag the sliders LR will show you the pixel's where clipping starts to occur. 

I find that it most pleasing when there is no white clipping except if there are some specular highlights (direct sunlight off of metal, glass or water) which are not part of this is image. Some black clipping can add depth to the shadows.

From there I think that adding contrast as Robert suggests will be even more effective. Try just using the Contrast slider and optionally making a s-curve using the point curve panel. A side effect of making a s-curve is that it will boost saturation as well. 

-louie


----------



## Jimmsp (Aug 5, 2013)

My experience with these kind of shots is that you are much better off working with the raw than with the jpeg as posted. You can do a lot more in terms of adjusting levels and contrast.
WHile we probably can't do a lot more on this shot, we could do a little more to improve it. If you post the raw somewhere, we could try some more.


----------



## camner (Aug 9, 2013)

Thanks to all for your input.  I will try some of the suggestions.

(I posted the jpg because the raw would be too large for the forum...I do shoot in raw and I worked on the raw image)

The histogram doesn't really show a lot of room...just a little at the highlights and clearly little at the shadows!  What it shows, which I find unusual (perhaps due to my inexperience) is very little in the midrange.  I can't increase exposure or whites very much without clipping, and that will kill what little detail there already is in the clouds, no?


----------



## Jimmsp (Aug 9, 2013)

camner said:


> Thanks to all for your input.  I will try some of the suggestions.
> 
> (I posted the jpg because the raw would be too large for the forum...I do shoot in raw and I worked on the raw image)
> 
> .....


You can use a service like dropbox or yousendit to let others download it


----------



## LouieSherwin (Aug 9, 2013)

Actually I see quite a bit of room at the top of your histogram. Go ahead and move the white slider to the right while holding down the option (alt) key until you see some clipping and back off a little. Then try adding contrast. I prefer using the point curve to make a s-curve instead of the contrast slider but try both and see which one you like the best. 

If you want to bring out some shadow detail bring up the Shadows slider. 

For this particular photo I would also use the adjustment brush, big (15-25) and soft (100 feather) and brush in some additional clarity into the sky to bring out some more detail. 

-louie


----------



## Mark Sirota (Aug 11, 2013)

camner said:


> The histogram doesn't really show a lot of room...just a little at the highlights and clearly little at the shadows!  What it shows, which I find unusual (perhaps due to my inexperience) is very little in the midrange.  I can't increase exposure or whites very much without clipping, and that will kill what little detail there already is in the clouds, no?
> View attachment 3848



Try reducing the contrast or applying lots of Highlights and Shadows. Either (or both) of those approaches will compress the histogram towards the middle, which may then offer you the room you're looking for at the edges. Whether it gets the visual results you're hoping for is something only you can answer.


----------



## erro (Aug 11, 2013)

Reducing the contrast is probably not the way to go for this photo where the goal is to *increase *the contrast. Or am I missing something?


----------



## Bruce J (Aug 11, 2013)

Might as well add my $.02 here also.  I think with this kind of image, the secret is to look at the image and the histogram and decide which parts need contrast increased and which parts you are willing to sacrifice some contrast.  Because the histogram is nearly full, from black to white, clearly you can't increase contrast everywhere.  One solution would be to sacrifice the dark trees by letting them go completely black.  That would open up more space to increase contrast in the highlights and/or the mid-tones.  Another option would be to compress the mid-tones (because there is little content in this photo in the mid-tones) giving more space to increase contrast in both the highlights and shadows.  IMHO, when dealing with difficult images with long contrast ranges, such as this, the curves tool is your friend.  Yes, you can probably achieve the same thing by some combination of slider action, but it becomes much easier to just push and pull on the curve while watching the image (not the histogram) until you get the effect you're looking for.  Play with the curves tool and learn what it does and you'll be happier with the results and more efficient.  Good luck!


----------



## Mark Sirota (Aug 11, 2013)

erro said:


> Reducing the contrast is probably not the way to go for this photo where the goal is to *increase *the contrast. Or am I missing something?



The idea would be to reduce the contrast as suggested, then expand it again using other tools (whites/blacks or curves, perhaps).


----------



## Jimmsp (Aug 11, 2013)

camner - I just downloaded the new trial Topaz plug in ReStyle. I have only started to play with it, but I can see some possibilities using it with photos like yours. 
With only a brief play I was able to get some pretty decent skies from your shot; though I wasn't happy with the rest. But you can mask quite well and apply multiple styles for different areas.
I'd recommend you download the trial and try it. It is pretty quick on my machine.
I'll probably end up buying it, if for nothing else the initial price is cheap for what you get.


----------

