# Superduper and LR Backup



## lay9eggs (Mar 14, 2016)

Hi to all again,

First of all, I'd like to thank the many kind people here for helping me with backup tips and instruction recently. Although I may not have understood everything that was taught to me at the time of posting, I have now managed to solve the issues as I worked on it guided by your replies. I began to understand most of what you said. 

So now I have:
a. 1st EHD with all my LR picture files in it; LR Cat backed up in DropBox
b. 2nd (Backup) EHD with identical LR picture files in it (via Superduper); LR Cat backed up in Desktop

Both EHDs launched nicely in LR with no issue.

Today, I made some LR edits on the 1st EHD, then Superduper (Smart Updated) to the 2nd EHD. I launched LR on the 2nd EHD, but no updates! 

I'm thinking it could be LR Cat issue that needs to point to the new update. If that's so, how do I do it? If not, please tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks so much for your help again.


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## Roelof Moorlag (Mar 14, 2016)

lay9eggs said:


> I'm thinking it could be LR Cat issue that needs to point to the new update. If that's so, how do I do it? If not


Yes, if you want to check if it's al there on your 2nd drive than it's possible to point LR to that filestructure:
In Librarymode go to the folders in the left pane. Go to the top folder, rigth click en choose 'Update Folder Location'. Then navigate to the top level folder on your EHD.
Afterwards don't forget to change this back!


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## lay9eggs (Mar 14, 2016)

Thanks much for the reply. 
But what do you mean by saying "don't forget to change it back!" 
Thanks again.


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## Roelof Moorlag (Mar 14, 2016)

When you want to use your catalog to check on the copies on the second drive there is a risk that you are going to work on it. Edits are no problem but files moving around are. These actions are performed on the copy, not on the original filestructure. So, before going to work again be sure the catalog is pointing to the right filestructure. English is not my first language, ik hope this is clear enough?


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## lay9eggs (Mar 14, 2016)

Here's pop out I get from your description:

"The selected folder or one of its subfolders is already in Lightroom. Do you want to combine these folders?"

It looks scary. Do I merge them? Thanks!


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## Roelof Moorlag (Mar 14, 2016)

Are you sure you only use the folderstructur of one drive in you initial catalog?
Indeed, the message suggests otherwise..
Maybe it's good to check it first!


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## lay9eggs (Mar 14, 2016)

I'm thinking the correct way to update LR Cat for the 2nd EHD is to launch LR Cat for the 1st EHD, then navigate to the Top Folder of the 2nd EHD on the left, right-click and "Update Folder Location". Once updated, I'll backup LR Cat for 2nd EHD. Is that what you mean?


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## lay9eggs (Mar 14, 2016)

lay9eggs said:


> I'm thinking the correct way to update LR Cat for the 2nd EHD is to launch LR Cat for the 1st EHD, then navigate to the Top Folder of the 2nd EHD on the left, right-click and "Update Folder Location". Once updated, I'll backup LR Cat for 2nd EHD. Is that what you mean?



No, I'm wrong. This way it wouldn't show "Update Folder Location" at all.


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## Roelof Moorlag (Mar 14, 2016)

lay9eggs said:


> Once updated, I'll backup LR Cat for 2nd EHD. Is that what you mean?


No, that's not what i ment, hmmm.

I think it's better that someone else is kicking in because i'm not able to expres myself good enough to help you. Johan or Cletus maybe?


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## zoladd (Mar 14, 2016)

Hi lay9eggs,

I think we need more information from you.  

I understand you have two external disks with your photos on them and that you use SuperDuper to make sure the second disk has the same set of photos and folders as the first.  This is good.

What is not clear is where you have your Lightroom catalog stored and whether or not you are trying to have two active copies of the same catalog.  

Some clarifications might help.  

The Lr Catalog file is a bit like a catalog in an ordinary library.  A library catalog does not store the books in the library, it just stores a reference to the books (eg via Dewey or Library of Congress reference numbers) so that you can find the books on the library shelves.  Similarly, the Lr Catlog does not store photos, it just stores references to them so that Lightroom knows where to find them on your computer (eg what disk, what folder, the filename).  The Lr Catalog is a database.

When a new book comes into a library, the librarian adds an entry for the book into the library's catalog.  The book is stored on the library shelves.  When you "import" a photo into Lightroom, Lightroom adds and entry for the photo into the Lr Catalog.lrcat file.  The photo itself is stored somewhere else on a disk drive.  The photo may optionally be copied during the "import"  to yet another place on disk using the Copy option, but it is not stored in the Lr Catalog.  After the "import" Lightroom creates preview images for all the imported photos.  These are held in Lr Catalog Previews.lrdata which is in the same folder as the Lr Catalog.

When you use the Develp module to change a photo or use the Quick Develop features in the Lr Library module, Lightroom stores the changes you make into the Lr Catalog.  Lightroom does not change the photo held on disk.  

You can backup your photos, eg using SuperDuper, to another hard drive.  This is good.  To get Lightroom to use a backup set of photos you must "tell" it where the backup photos are located so that it can adjust the Lr Catalog references to the photos.  If the photos in the backup are in exactly the same folder structure as the photos already known to Lightroom then this is easily done through the folder panel when Lightroom is in Library mode.  

In Lightrooms Catalog Preferences you can specify when you want Lightroom to backup the Lr Catalog (eg every time Lightroom exits, once a day, once a week).  By default these Lr Catalog backups are stored in a folder called "Backups" in the same folder that the Lr Catalog is stored.  You can change this location through the Catalog preferences.  You need to use a backup Lr Catalog when your original Lr Catalog gets corrupted or when you have made photo editing mistakes that you cannot undo.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 15, 2016)

Hi Zoladd,
Thanks for making time to help me.

1st EHD - LR Cat stored in DropBox.
2nd EHD (Backup) - LR Cat stored in Desktop
Preferably 2 active copies, although I'll be basically working with 1st EHD, then making an identical copy on 2nd EHD. Reason being that I'm not technically inclined, so it's a peace of mind knowing that if one drive fails, I have the other up and running without panicking what to do.

I basically understood what you have said about the LR Cat being only a reference to the images. So, now I cut and paste my original issue:

a. 1st EHD with all my LR picture files in it; LR Cat backed up in DropBox
b. 2nd (Backup) EHD with identical LR picture files in it (via Superduper); LR Cat backed up in Desktop

Both EHDs launched nicely in LR with no issue.

Today, I made some LR edits on the 1st EHD, then Superduper (Smart Updated) to the 2nd EHD.

I launched LR Cat in my Desktop, but do not see the new edits. I reckon this LR Cat still shows the old reference (the one before the latest edits).
I launched LR Cat in DropBox, but I see question marks all over the images.

Question: 
What do I need to do in order to see the updated edits on 2nd EHD (Backup)?

Many thanks.


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 15, 2016)

I'm unclear where your Lightroom catalog is. First you say '1st EHD - LR cat stored in Dropbox', but a little later you say 'LR cat backed up in Dropbox'. So what is it? Dropbox works with a Dropbox folder on your *internal* HD, so perhaps your edits are done in a (third) catalog, located in that folder. In that case it makes sense that the edits are not copied by Superduper if you only copy items from EHD1 to EHD2.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 15, 2016)

Anyway, just for my understanding - How many copies of Lr Cat do we need regardless of the numbers of EH


JohanElzenga said:


> I'm unclear where your Lightroom catalog is. First you say '1st EHD - LR cat stored in Dropbox', but a little later you say 'LR cat backed up in Dropbox'. So what is it? Dropbox works with a Dropbox folder on your *internal* HD, so perhaps your edits are done in a (third) catalog, located in that folder. In that case it makes sense that the edits are not copied by Superduper if you only copy items from EHD1 to EHD2.



I'm beginning to feel I'm missing something here.
It does make sense that the edits are not copied by Superduper since the Lr Cat is in the Dropbox. 

So I think I'm good that I've got my picture files in 2 separate drives (one working and one backup). So now my question is how many Lr Cat do we need? Is the one Lr Cat stored in Dropbox sufficient? If yes, what happens if the only Lr Cat that I have becomes corrupted or even accidently trashed away?


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## lay9eggs (Mar 15, 2016)

lay9eggs said:


> Anyway, just for my understanding - How many copies of Lr Cat do we need regardless of the numbers of EH
> 
> 
> I'm beginning to feel I'm missing something here.
> ...




In regards to you question on how many copies of Lr Cat I have, I'm sorry for my poor explanation.
1st EHD - LR Cat stored in Dropbox
2nd EHD - LR Cat stored in Desktop
I have these 2 Lr Cat stored in different places for security, which may not be necessary, leading to the confusion.


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 15, 2016)

While Dropbox can work as a backup, I would not rely on only Dropbox. Lightroom can make a catalog backup on quit (it's in the catalog settings). Use that to make a backup to one of the two EHDs. Also, use a general backup utility to backup your entire internal disk on a daily basis. I'm sure you've got more on there that you don't want to lose than just your LR catalog...


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 15, 2016)

lay9eggs said:


> In regards to you question on how many copies of Lr Cat I have, I'm sorry for my poor explanation.
> 1st EHD - LR Cat stored in Dropbox
> 2nd EHD - LR Cat stored in Desktop
> I have these 2 Lr Cat stored in different places for security, which may not be necessary, leading to the confusion.



So you have two different catalogs, both stored in Dropbox. In that case it is logical that using Superduper to sync the two EHDs won't sync their catalogs. Superduper will only sync the images. 

If I understand it correctly, the second EHD is meant as a backup of the first. In that case, you should not use a second catalog at all. Use only the first catalog. If you ever get a problem with the first EHD, you can simply use 'Update Folder Location' to point that catalog to the second EHD.


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## zoladd (Mar 15, 2016)

I agree with what Johan said.

The problem is not that you have a backup catalog, it is that you have two active catalogs and update them independently, and do not have a suitable mechanism for keeping them in synch.

Here is how I do it:

Computer (single disk) - Lr Catalog (the active one), plus prreviews, presets (not stored in the catalog) etc
EHD1 - one complete set of photos in some folder structure I like and imported into my Lr Catalog
EHD2 - a duplicate set of photos copied from EHD1 with exactly the same folder structure as EHD1 (and NOT specifically imported into my Lr Catalog)

My backups:
a) Lr Catalog backup daily (on first exit of Lr) to an EHD.
b) Frequent and regular backups of my computer disk to yet another EHD (EHDTM) using Time Machine.
c) Infrequent/less regular clone of my computer disk using CCC/SuperDuper to an EHD.
d) New photos are copied from memory card (CF SD or whatever) to EHD1 on import to my Lr Catalog.  
e) After import I copy them from EHD1 to EHD2 (eg with SuperDuper/CCC or by hand).

When a failure/problem arises:
1.  If I break the Lr Catalog, seriously destroy it's contents, or the Lr Catalog gets corrupted some other way then I restore the Lr Catalog from the backup taken in a), b) or c) above.
2.  If my computer disk dies or is corrupted I can restore my entire system (including the Lr Catalog, presets, previews, etc from the Time Machine or clone backups (after getting a new disk installed).
3.  If I accidentally delete some photos from EHD1, I restore them from EHD2.
4.  If EHD1 dies I get a new drive and copy all photos from EHD2 to the new EHD1.  Similarly if EHD2 dies.

Every now and again I swap EHD1 and EHD2 and use the "Update Folder Location" option to point my Lr Catalog to the changed EHD.  I do this to try and make sure that both sets of my photos are correct and working.

Hope this helps.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 15, 2016)

Hi Zoladd,
I think you understood me and my issue. Briefly reading your post, I think we're getting somewhere. But I'm not quite fast when it comes to understanding too many technical details. So, I'll need some time to figure how to work it out. Will come back soon if I need more help. Thanks to everyone for staying with me. Really appreciate it!


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## lay9eggs (Mar 15, 2016)

Hi Johan,
Yes, I understand your explanation too. Thanks also to you


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## lay9eggs (Mar 16, 2016)

zoladd said:


> I agree with what Johan said.
> 
> The problem is not that you have a backup catalog, it is that you have two active catalogs and update them independently, and do not have a suitable mechanism for keeping them in synch.
> 
> ...


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## lay9eggs (Mar 16, 2016)

zoladd said:


> I agree with what Johan said.
> 
> The problem is not that you have a backup catalog, it is that you have two active catalogs and update them independently, and do not have a suitable mechanism for keeping them in synch.
> 
> ...



Hi, I'm back!

As what you described, I have now:

EHD1 - one complete set of photos in some folder structure I like and imported into my Lr Catalog
EHD2 - a duplicate set of photos copied from EHD1 with exactly the same folder structure as EHD1 (and NOT specifically imported into my Lr Catalog)

Because EHD2 is an exact clone of EHD1, both EHDs contain:
a. Backups Folder
b. LR Settings folder
Previews. Irdata
Lr Cat
Pictures Folder

You pointed out that: The problem is not that you have a backup catalog, it is that you have two active catalogs and update them independently, and do not have a suitable mechanism for keeping them in synch.

Because of that, I need to get rid of EHD2 active catalog in order to maintain a single active catalog for both EHD1 & EHD2. Right?

Question: Trash the EHD2 Backup Folder on the Desktop, Right?
Question: Also trash all the contents found in EHD2, except Pictures Folder, Right?

Thanks for your help again.


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 16, 2016)

If EHD2 contains a catalog, presets folder and previews file while it is an exact duplicate of EHD1, then EHD1 must also contain a catalog, presets and previews. However, that catalog doesn't seem to be your working catalog, because you said that your LR catalog is in Dropbox... Or is it?...

Trashing anything from EHD2 won't do much, because the next Superduper clone action will restore anything that is still on the source disk (EHD1).


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## lay9eggs (Mar 17, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> If EHD2 contains a catalog, presets folder and previews file while it is an exact duplicate of EHD1, then EHD1 must also contain a catalog, presets and previews. However, that catalog doesn't seem to be your working catalog, because you said that your LR catalog is in Dropbox... Or is it?...
> 
> Trashing anything from EHD2 won't do much, because the next Superduper clone action will restore anything that is still on the source disk (EHD1).



Hi Johan,
I should have mentioned that the EHD1 working Lr Cat is no longer in Dropbox. It has been moved to a Desktop Folder as advised by Zoladd, so that it can be backed up to EHD3 using Time Machine.

So now, do I simply trash the EHD2 non-active catalog (also stored in a Desktop Folder), in order to use just one active Catalog for EHD1 and EHD2?

As you can see, what I really intend to do now is to use just one active catalog as advised. 

Many Thanks!


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 17, 2016)

I have to disagree with Zoladd. There is no reason to move the catalog to the desktop. Your Dropbox folder is just another folder as far as MacOS X is concerned, so all items in it will be backed up by Time Machine too (unless you manually excluded that folder from Time Machine). You can have the best of both worlds by keeping it in there!

So put the working catalog in your Dropbox folder, meaning it will be on you internal HD. Then trash the non-functional copies on EHD1 and EHD2, so you don't get confused.

You can do one more thing for even more security: in the catalog settings, you can tell Lightroom to make a backup of the catalog on quit (or once a week, or some other schedule). When you do that and quit Lightroom, you'll get a dialog where you can change the location of that backup. The default is a folder called 'backup' in the same folder as the working catalog, but that doesn't make much sense. You could choose your EHD1 for that. Then, after Superduper has run, you have two more backups of your catalog (on EHD1, and EHD2). These backups take very little space, because they are only the catalog (not the previews) and they are zipped. Just trash older backups every now and then, because Lightroom doesn't do that automatically.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 17, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> I have to disagree with Zoladd. There is no reason to move the catalog to the desktop. Your Dropbox folder is just another folder as far as MacOS X is concerned, so all items in it will be backed up by Time Machine too (unless you manually excluded that folder from Time Machine). You can have the best of both worlds by keeping it in there!
> 
> So put the working catalog in your Dropbox folder, meaning it will be on you internal HD. Then trash the non-functional copies on EHD1 and EHD2, so you don't get confused.
> 
> You can do one more thing for even more security: in the catalog settings, you can tell Lightroom to make a backup of the catalog on quit (or once a week, or some other schedule). When you do that and quit Lightroom, you'll get a dialog where you can change the location of that backup. The default is a folder called 'backup' in the same folder as the working catalog, but that doesn't make much sense. You could choose your EHD1 for that. Then, after Superduper has run, you have two more backups of your catalog (on EHD1, and EHD2). These backups take very little space, because they are only the catalog (not the previews) and they are zipped. Just trash older backups every now and then, because Lightroom doesn't do that automatically.



Hi Johan,
Actually, I'm getting more confused as to what an active cat is and what the backup cat is.
Based on your explanation regarding changing the location of the backup, I think now that the cat I had originally stored in Dropbox was actually the backup cat since that was exactly what I did (change the location when LR exit - to Dropbox). If this is true, then where is the active cat?

EHD1 LR Folder
a. Backups Folder
b. LR Settings folder
c. Previews. Irdata
d. Lr Cat
f. Pictures Folder

Is item d the active Cat? If yes, do I drag it to Dropbox? Do I also drag items b & c to Dropbox?
As for item a, I will change the location to a separate folder in EHD1. Right?

Thanks!


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## lay9eggs (Mar 14, 2016)

Hi to all again,

First of all, I'd like to thank the many kind people here for helping me with backup tips and instruction recently. Although I may not have understood everything that was taught to me at the time of posting, I have now managed to solve the issues as I worked on it guided by your replies. I began to understand most of what you said. 

So now I have:
a. 1st EHD with all my LR picture files in it; LR Cat backed up in DropBox
b. 2nd (Backup) EHD with identical LR picture files in it (via Superduper); LR Cat backed up in Desktop

Both EHDs launched nicely in LR with no issue.

Today, I made some LR edits on the 1st EHD, then Superduper (Smart Updated) to the 2nd EHD. I launched LR on the 2nd EHD, but no updates! 

I'm thinking it could be LR Cat issue that needs to point to the new update. If that's so, how do I do it? If not, please tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks so much for your help again.


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 17, 2016)

The fact that EHD1 also contains items b and c does indeed suggest that it might be the active LR catalog. You can check the location of the current catalog when Lightroom is running, in the LR preferences. If you have free Dropbox account, it might be better to keep the setup as it is now. The previews file can become quite large, and too large for a free Dropbox account. Superduper will make a backup copy to EHD2, and you can let Lightroom make a backup of only the (zipped) catalog to Dropbox.

If you have a paid Dropbox account you could place the working LR catalog in Dropbox. You should indeed also move the previews.lrdata file and the presets folder in that case. The advantage of having the working catalog on your internal HD is that this makes Lightroom a bit faster, because the internal HD is usually faster than an external one.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 17, 2016)

Actually I'm back full circle. When I started this thread, I have:
1. EHD1 with picture folder and active cat in it
2. EHD2 with exact clone of EHD1
3. Cat backed up in Dropbox

It was completely my fault because I had not been clear with my explanation and that has cause time wastage on your side.

I have now trashed EHD2 cat backup as advised. So, now I have only one active cat.

Question: What are the steps to take in order to switch from EHD1 to EHD2 using this active cat?

Thanks!


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 17, 2016)

The only thing you would need to do is select the pictures folder in Lightroom, right-click on it and choose 'Update Folder Location'. In the dialog that follows you navigate to the same folder on EHD2 and select it. Done.


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## camner (Mar 18, 2016)

Mindful that "too many cooks spoil the broth" I won't weigh in on the question of where your "main catalog" is located and whether it has all of the photos as well as metadata updates that you expect it to.

I do have some thoughts, however, on how you are working with your backups (both catalog and data). I personally would not open up a backup copy of my Lightroom catalog (that is, a copy of the catalog made via SuperDuper! or other cloning software) on a routine basis just to check whether that copy actually reflected what I thought it would and should.  There's too much risk of confusion...If you open up the backup copy of the catalog, and the next time you use Lightroom start by opening the app rather than double clicking on the catalog, and you have LR set to auto open the "last used" catalog, you might end up making edits in your backup catalog rather than the main catalog.

[As an aside, in the rare case where I feel the need to open up a backup copy of my LR catalog, I make a copy of what I consider to be my "main" catalog file, give it a helpful, dated name, then copy the backup copy of the catalog to where my main catalog resides and open it from there...that way I do not risk having my backup catalog copy being changed by whatever I do when it's open]

Having at times (and not just with Lightroom) accidentally been working from backup copies of a document rather than the originals, I decided a while ago that when I make backups, I always use a program such as SuperDuper! to clone whatever volume I want to back up, and then use that backup clone/copy only when I have a specific reason to do so (such as when I have accidentally trashed a document on my main drive and need to get it from the backup or in rare cases, when I have had a hard drive failure and need to clone from the backup to a replacement main drive). In other words, I think of my backup volumes as only for "in case something goes wrong," not for any other purpose.

I also do not use my backup volumes to store any other information other than a clone of the volume I am backing up. I just find it gets too confusing if I mix the purposes of a volume. External hard drives are cheap enough that I have sufficient drives to have each one dedicated to a specific purpose, and I even have some spares lying around in case I need to park something temporarily; I wouldn't use one of my backup volumes for that purpose. Also, because I'm a bit paranoid about losing important items (such as my photos and Lightroom catalog), I have multiple backup volumes that I rotate on a weekly basis (so I have 4). I think it's important to have at least two backup volumes on separate physical drives, because in case something goes wrong when you are making a backup, you don't want to risk having your one and only backup volume corrupted. I also subscribe to a cloud backup service (CrashPlan) which provides off-site backup of all of my data (I can rebuild my machine and reinstall software if I need to, but without a offsite backup I can't recover my personal files, such as images and the Lightroom catalog, if a natural or human disaster strikes my house).

Good luck!


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## lay9eggs (Mar 18, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> The only thing you would need to do is select the pictures folder in Lightroom, right-click on it and choose 'Update Folder Location'. In the dialog that follows you navigate to the same folder on EHD2 and select it. Done.



Yes, I got it! Thank you very much, Johan and Zoladd. Really appreciate your help very much. Also thanks to all who stop by to help


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## lay9eggs (Mar 18, 2016)

camner said:


> Mindful that "too many cooks spoil the broth" I won't weigh in on the question of where your "main catalog" is located and whether it has all of the photos as well as metadata updates that you expect it to.
> 
> I do have some thoughts, however, on how you are working with your backups (both catalog and data). I personally would not open up a backup copy of my Lightroom catalog (that is, a copy of the catalog made via SuperDuper! or other cloning software) on a routine basis just to check whether that copy actually reflected what I thought it would and should.  There's too much risk of confusion...If you open up the backup copy of the catalog, and the next time you use Lightroom start by opening the app rather than double clicking on the catalog, and you have LR set to auto open the "last used" catalog, you might end up making edits in your backup catalog rather than the main catalog.
> 
> ...



Hi Camner, do you mean to say that if I double click on the backup cat, do some edit and backup again during exit, backup only happen in the backup Cat and not in the active Cat? Thanks much.


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 18, 2016)

lay9eggs said:


> Hi Camner, do you mean to say that if I double click on the backup cat, do some edit and backup again during exit, backup only happen in the backup Cat and not in the active Cat? Thanks much.



That depends on the settings in Superduper. If Superduper is set to _synchronize_ the disks, then it will copy the edits from disk 2 to disk 1. If Superduper is set to _backup_ from disk 1 to disk 2, then your edits will get lost the next time you run Superduper. In any case, *don't do this*. This is asking for trouble. If you make edits in both catalogs, you are bound to lose some of them when you run the synchronize/backup.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 18, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> That depends on the settings in Superduper. If Superduper is set to _synchronize_ the disks, then it will copy the edits from disk 2 to disk 1. If Superduper is set to _backup_ from disk 1 to disk 2, then your edits will get lost the next time you run Superduper. In any case, *don't do this*. This is asking for trouble. If you make edits in both catalogs, you are bound to lose some of them when you run the synchronize/backup.



Point taken. Very helpful tip. Thanks


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## camner (Mar 18, 2016)

lay9eggs said:


> Hi Camner, do you mean to say that if I double click on the backup cat, do some edit and backup again during exit, backup only happen in the backup Cat and not in the active Cat? Thanks much.



Maybe another way to look at this is this....Lightroom doesn't have any idea which catalog you think of as your "main" catalog and which one you think of as your "backup" catalog.  So, let's say you think of your "main" catalog being the one on Drive 1 and your "backup" catalog on Drive 2.  You use SuperDuper! to clone Drive 1 to Drive 2.  Now you have 2 identical catalogs on two different drives.  You then open the catalog that is sitting on Drive 2.  LR just thinks of this as "THE catalog."  To LR there is no "main" vs. "backup" version of the catalog.  When you exit LR, if you have set LR to make a backup of your catalog, it will do so, reflecting the changes you've made.  BUT, the catalog version on Drive 1 is not up to date.  If you open the catalog version on Drive 1, it won't reflect the changes you made to the version on Drive 2.  As Johan said, if you have SuperDuper! set to SYNCHRONIZE rather than BACKUP, and you run SD! that way, then files on Drive 1 will reflect any changes you make to files on Drive 2.  But, if you do things this way, you really DON'T have a backup...you have just two copies of everything.  This protects you from hardware failure, but not from user error.  Suppose you work on file (LR or not) on Drive 1, exit the program you are running, and run SD! to synchronize your two EHDs.  Then you open up the file again (doesn't matter on which drive), and you realize to your horror that you deleted something from the file you were working on.  Now you don't have a backup copy because your synchronization process replaced the version on Drive 2 with the bad version on Drive 1.

As I said earlier, I always think of backing up as a one-way process.  I ONLY work on my main version of files (on my main drive).  I clone to backup drives on a regular basis. I do NOTHING with the versions of files on the backup unless I need to access them because I believe something is not correct with the "main" version.  And even then, I don't open the version on the backup drive.  I copy the version on the backup drive and open the copy.  That way I don't risk a mistake with the backup copy.


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## camner (Mar 18, 2016)

lay9eggs said:


> Hi Camner, do you mean to say that if I double click on the backup cat, do some edit and backup again during exit, backup only happen in the backup Cat and not in the active Cat? Thanks much.



Hmmm...now that I reread your question, I think there may be something else going on here.  When you say "backup only happens in the backup Cat..." do you mean the SuperDuper! backup or the backup made by LR?  LR only makes a backup of the catalog that happens to be open at the time.  So, if you open your backup catalog and then quit LR, if you have set LR to make a catalog backup upon exit, it will be your backup catalog, and ONLY your backup catalog, that gets backed up by LR.  SuperDuper! will backup (or synchronize, depending on how you set it up) whatever you tell SD! to operate on.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 19, 2016)

camner said:


> Hmmm...now that I reread your question, I think there may be something else going on here.  When you say "backup only happens in the backup Cat..." do you mean the SuperDuper! backup or the backup made by LR?  LR only makes a backup of the catalog that happens to be open at the time.  So, if you open your backup catalog and then quit LR, if you have set LR to make a catalog backup upon exit, it will be your backup catalog, and ONLY your backup catalog, that gets backed up by LR.  SuperDuper! will backup (or synchronize, depending on how you set it up) whatever you tell SD! to operate on.



I mean backup by LR, not Superduper. Thanks


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## lay9eggs (Mar 21, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> The only thing you would need to do is select the pictures folder in Lightroom, right-click on it and choose 'Update Folder Location'. In the dialog that follows you navigate to the same folder on EHD2 and select it. Done.



Hi, I thought I understood the lesson... But not really! I'm sorry to trouble you again.

I just found out that all along I've been opening up the backup cat in Dropbox and not the active cat. The active cat is still sitting in the original LR folder. On realizing that, I tried to double-click on the active cat. LR opens up with question marks all over the pictures. 

As per your suggestion:
a. Put the active cat in Dropbox,
b. Put the backup cat in EHD1,
c. Superduper to EHD2.

How do I make LR open properly using active cat so that the question marks disappear?

Thanks again.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 21, 2016)

lay9eggs said:


> Hi, I thought I understood the lesson... But not really! I'm sorry to trouble you again.
> 
> I just found out that all along I've been opening up the backup cat in Dropbox and not the active cat. The active cat is still sitting in the original LR folder. On realizing that, I tried to double-click on the active cat. LR opens up with question marks all over the pictures.
> 
> ...



I mean question marks all over the picture folders, not pictures.


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 21, 2016)

The answer is in the part you quoted... "_The only thing you would need to do is select the pictures folder in Lightroom, right-click on it and choose 'Update Folder Location'. In the dialog that follows you navigate to the same folder on EHD2 and select it. Done._"


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## lay9eggs (Mar 22, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> The answer is in the part you quoted... "_The only thing you would need to do is select the pictures folder in Lightroom, right-click on it and choose 'Update Folder Location'. In the dialog that follows you navigate to the same folder on EHD2 and select it. Done._"



I did as you said. Here's the pop-out:
The selected folder or one of its subfolders is already in Lightroom. Do you want to combine these folders?
Do I merge?
Thanks again.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 22, 2016)

lay9eggs said:


> I did as you said. Here's the pop-out:
> The selected folder or one of its subfolders is already in Lightroom. Do you want to combine these folders?
> Do I merge?
> Thanks again.



Just to be sure you understand what I am doing...
As explained, I have been launching LR using backup cat in Dropbox, mistaking it for the active cat.
In order to correct this,
a) I double-click the active cat in EHD2 to launch LR and EHD1 shows up and question marks show up in the folders
I right-click the "Parent Folder" or "Picture Folder, I don't see "Update Folder Location" 

b) I double-click the active cat in EHD1 to launch LR and EHD1 shows up and question marks show up in the folders
I right-click the "Parent Folder" and I see "Update Folder Location" 
I navigate to EHD1, and "Choose". Nothing happened
I right-click the "Picture Folder" and I see "Update Folder Location" 
I navigate to EHD, and "Choose",
It pops out: The selected folder or one of its subfolders is already in Lightroom. Do you want to combine these folders?

What do I do? Thanks!


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 22, 2016)

I think it's time you first decide once and for all which is your active catalog and which is your backup catalog. *Then don't open that backup catalog again in Lightroom!*

If you right-click on a folder in Lightroom, you should see either '*Update Folder Location*' (when Lightroom does know where the folder is) or '*Find Missing Folder*' (when Lightroom does not know that). Essentially it's the same command: the command to show Lightroom the new location of a folder.

If you've already updated some (sub)folder locations and not others, you may get the message '_The selected folder or one of its subfolders is already in Lightroom. Do you want to combine these folders?_'. Just say Yes.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 22, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> I think it's time you first decide once and for all which is your active catalog and which is your backup catalog. *Then don't open that backup catalog again in Lightroom!*
> 
> If you right-click on a folder in Lightroom, you should see either '*Update Folder Location*' (when Lightroom does know where the folder is) or '*Find Missing Folder*' (when Lightroom does not know that). Essentially it's the same command: the command to show Lightroom the new location of a folder.
> 
> If you've already updated some (sub)folder locations and not others, you may get the message '_The selected folder or one of its subfolders is already in Lightroom. Do you want to combine these folders?_'. Just say Yes.



Hi Johan,
Just wanted to say that it didn't work. I clicked "Merge" to combine the folders but the question marks didn't go away. I feel bad to trouble you further. So, I'll find the solution at other times. Thanks for all the help. Really appreciate it


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 22, 2016)

The question marks are folders Lightroom can't find. If you don't tell Lightroom where those folders are, or if you point Lightroom to a new parent folder that misses one or more of these subfolders, then the question marks won't disappear. Sorry, but I can't tell you where your folders are if you don't know that yourself. Perhaps it's time to post some screenshots of Lightroom's folder panel, and of the EHD where those folders are supposed to be...


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## lay9eggs (Mar 23, 2016)




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## lay9eggs (Mar 23, 2016)




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## lay9eggs (Mar 23, 2016)

Hi Johan,
SC 3: LR Folder in EHD1
SC 4: Backup Folder in Desktop (As explained earlier, I thought they were active cat)
SC 1 & 2: I double-click active cat in EHD1 and this is what it shows--question marks

Let me know if you require screenshots. Thanks much!


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 23, 2016)

I'm sorry, but the first thing I conclude from these screenshots is that you are *STILL* working with a Lightroom catalog that is located on a disk called 'Seagate backup plus'. If that is not really a backup disk, how can you make sure you won't get confused? 

I also see a 'Lightroom catalog' folder on your desktop, so that seems to be a second catalog folder...

Next I see that you try 'Update Folder Location', but the 'My Lightroom Photos' you connect to is not the photos folder. It's the catalog folder. Inside that folder is a subfolder called 'Pictures'. I assume that is where your photos reside, so you should connect Lightroom to that subfolder, not to the parent 'My Lightroom Photos' folder. But check first in the Finder if that subfolder does indeed contain the pictures folders, because nothing will surprise me anymore.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 23, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> I'm sorry, but the first thing I conclude from these screenshots is that you are *STILL* working with a Lightroom catalog that is located on a disk called 'Seagate backup plus'. If that is not really a backup disk, how can you make sure you won't get confused?
> 
> _I am showing you the question marks that I get when I use the active cat located on EHD1 (Seagate Backup Plus). _
> _For actual work, I am working on backup LR Cat located on the Desktop as seen on SC2. _
> ...


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 23, 2016)

I'm sorry, but I understand less and less about what you are doing. Like I said several times: _don't open backup catalogs in Lightroom_! You say '_For actual work, I am working on backup LR Cat located on the Desktop as seen on SC2_'. What does that mean? That your working catalog is in that Desktop folder? That you make a backup of your working catalog to that Desktop folder?

You also say "_I am showing you the question marks that I get when I use the active cat located on EHD1 (Seagate Backup Plus)_." So what is an 'active' cat? Your working catalog? In that case it is located on 'Seagate Backup plus'. Why is that disk called 'backup' if it isn't a backup disk?

And what do you mean with '_There is no 'Pictures' subfolder'_. Your screenshot clearly shows that there is!


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## lay9eggs (Mar 14, 2016)

Hi to all again,

First of all, I'd like to thank the many kind people here for helping me with backup tips and instruction recently. Although I may not have understood everything that was taught to me at the time of posting, I have now managed to solve the issues as I worked on it guided by your replies. I began to understand most of what you said. 

So now I have:
a. 1st EHD with all my LR picture files in it; LR Cat backed up in DropBox
b. 2nd (Backup) EHD with identical LR picture files in it (via Superduper); LR Cat backed up in Desktop

Both EHDs launched nicely in LR with no issue.

Today, I made some LR edits on the 1st EHD, then Superduper (Smart Updated) to the 2nd EHD. I launched LR on the 2nd EHD, but no updates! 

I'm thinking it could be LR Cat issue that needs to point to the new update. If that's so, how do I do it? If not, please tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks so much for your help again.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 23, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> I'm sorry, but I understand less and less about what you are doing. Like I said several times: _don't open backup catalogs in Lightroom_! You say '_For actual work, I am working on backup LR Cat located on the Desktop as seen on SC2_'.
> 
> _What I am saying is that I have been opening up backup cat for actual work, which I know I shouldn't. But I am carrying on working with backup cat since I have not solved the problem. So now I am trying to correct it. After the problem is solved, I will not open up backup cat any more._
> 
> ...


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 23, 2016)

OK, that finally clears up a lot of things. However, you may be creating new problems this way. If you are now working with a backup catalog, all that work is lost if we solve the problem with your working catalog and you switch back to that one. Have you thought of that?

Now for your problem. *No, there is no 'Pictures' folder in Lightroom, but that is exactly the point.* You have 'reconnected' Lightroom to the wrong folder! Assuming that your pictures are in the 'Pictures' subfolder inside the 'My Lightroom Photos' folder (_you may want check this first in the Finder!_), what you need to do is this: Open Lightroom by double-clicking the catalog in the 'My Lightroom Photos' folder. Right-click on the 'My Lightroom Photos' folder in Lightroom, and choose 'Update Folder Location'. Navigate to the 'Pictures' folder inside 'My Lightroom Photos' and select it. That should solve the problem.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 24, 2016)

I did exactly what you said. You can now see Picture subfolder under My Lightroom Photos. Question marks are still there. Do I "Find Missing Folder?" Thanks!


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 24, 2016)

Sigh... How am I supposed to know where you keep your pictures? I've told you how to reconnect a missing folder, so now you know how to do this. The screenshot shows that you've successfully reconnected _some_ folders, but not _all_ of them. The subfolders that are still missing weren't in that Pictures folder, so you apparently moved them to some other place (_didn't I suggest to check this first?_). You only know where that is. Once you've found them, you can reconnect them in the same way (or move them back to where Lightroom thinks they should be).


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 24, 2016)

P.S. As you are now working with that backup on your desktop, it seems that this backup catalog *is* connected to the images (because you can work with that catalog). So why don't you look in the folder panel of that catalog to see where the images are (good chance they are in a 'Pictures' folder inside the catalog folder on the desktop, because that is where you seem to store them) and then (using the Finder!) *copy* them to that Pictures folder on EHD1?


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 24, 2016)

Now now, no sighing!


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## lay9eggs (Mar 24, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> P.S. As you are now working with that backup on your desktop, it seems that this backup catalog *is* connected to the images (because you can work with that catalog). So why don't you look in the folder panel of that catalog to see where the images are (good chance they are in a 'Pictures' folder inside the catalog folder on the desktop, because that is where you seem to store them) and then (using the Finder!) *copy* them to that Pictures folder on EHD1?



Hi Johan, I am happy to report that I have managed to salvage most of the pictures by locating missing folders. The pictures are in EHD1 but I do not know why the question marks are appearing. Perhaps it's because I've been shifting folders lately. I'm still working on the last bit. It's a lot of work, but it works. 
Thank you so much for all the help. Truly appreciate it


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 24, 2016)

Good to hear. The question marks are probably because the names of the folders have changed. Your screenshots don't show everything, but if you have changed the name of a subfolder slightly, Lightroom will show the old name and a question mark. Reconnecting the folder solves that.


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## lay9eggs (Mar 27, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> Good to hear. The question marks are probably because the names of the folders have changed. Your screenshots don't show everything, but if you have changed the name of a subfolder slightly, Lightroom will show the old name and a question mark. Reconnecting the folder solves that.


Hi Johan, I have recovered almost all the photos. Thanks for being so graciousy following up. Thanks to all others for helping too


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