# Where and when do you edit?



## davidedric (Jan 20, 2017)

Interested by this comment in another thread

*On our last safari in Kenya we had MacBooks except one guy who brought his company laptop, a Dell*.

I now see a lot of people editing while on safari.  I never do.  For me there is always so much going on when I'm on safari (most years) that I don't want to miss, and giving that time up to look at a screen seems such a wasted opportunity.  Plenty of time back home.

I suspect I am in a minority (and were I a professional or on an assignment I expect it would be different again), but any views out there?

Dave


----------



## Replytoken (Jan 20, 2017)

davidedric said:


> Interested by this comment in another thread
> 
> *On our last safari in Kenya we had MacBooks except one guy who brought his company laptop, a Dell*.
> 
> ...


I agree.  Except for occasional chimping to make sure that things are fine, and a possible jpeg for an email to family and friends, I leave the processing/culling of my images for when I am home.  I like to be "present" when on holiday/vacation, but to each their own.

--Ken


----------



## clee01l (Jan 20, 2017)

I always take my laptop. At the end of the day, I import the days shoot and let Time Machine make a backup.
I review each image from the days shoot.  Because when I travel, I may never get a chance to visit this locale again and If I missed a shot, there is a chance I can make it up the next day.


----------



## Rob_Cullen (Jan 20, 2017)

On a safari or holiday abroad it would be brave to rely on camera cards storing images until you arrive home. (They have been known to become corrupt)
I like my laptop to travel. Each night I import the day's images to Lightroom, adding some data like location keywords, backup the files to an external drive (carried in the wife's luggage), then reformat cards in the camera ready for the next day.
"Editing" ? well that can be done at any time available- a quiet time in the evening, or when we are home.
And who can resist the occasional laptop 'chimp' to check if images are looking good? (Did I have the camera on manual focus? Are all my shots at 6400iso? Are those sensor dust spots a problem? Have I left the camera set for HDR multiples -1,0,+1. This one has caught me out )


----------



## Tony Jay (Jan 21, 2017)

It is an each-to-his-own scenario.

However, for what it is worth, I do edit while on safari (in the African use of the term).
The reasons are many, but I will enlarge upon a couple that may be pertinent to you Dave:

When shooting wildlife and birds I use particular combinations of ISO, shutter speed, and fill-flash to try and get the best possible image quality.
Obviously lighting changes and so does my camera technique (usually related to fatigue and distraction).
I want to know on an ongoing basis whether what I am doing is actually working!

I would not want to come home after 6-8 weeks in Africa (or wherever) and find problems with motion blur, noise, over-exuberant use of flash, even sensor dust, etc.
Those trips are very expensive (as you well know) and coming home with 15 000 useless images (the number I shot on my last trip - luckily relatively few useless ones) even if you are not a pro is at best rather deflating and at worst practically grounds for suicidal ideation.
At home I subsequently cull those images down to about 10-15% of the original number but without the quality assurance measures I reckon less than 1% would be usable.

Another reason is creativity and learning. When I review my images soon after actually shooting them I can remember the circumstances of every shot. Weather, directional light, animal or bird behaviour etc. Some images just don't work and others just blow me away with their quality. However, some images that really work are the product of pure serendipidity - one shot in pure hope but managed to get a great result. Well, wouldn't it be great to review that image and ponder on the circumstances and then construct a strategy to try and take similar images on purpose on the very next game drive rather than as a random event. This is how one learns!

I will give one quick example that happened to me:
In 2006 I did my first photographic expedition - it happened to be across the whole of southern Africa and we were away for 10 weeks. Early on in the trip we were shooting in Hluhluwe-Umfolozi which is in South Africa. One afternoon we had an encounter with a bull elephant that necessitated our guide reversing smartly down a very bumpy dirt track on a fairly steep downhill section. I had a super-telephoto lens on my camera and I took several shots trying to record the action as the bull elephant followed us closely down this track. I can still remember the monopod bouncing inches into the air as I was trying to shoot. Predictably, nearly all the shots were hopelessly blurred (so much so that the subject was unidentifiable), apart from one perfectly sharp image that had captured the elephants eye, eyelashes, a small part of the trunk and the origin of one tusk and a small bit of lip. In addition, the late afternoon sun had created a perfectly sidelit image. The result was astonishing!
It was as if I could read this elephants very soul! I could gaze into his eye and he would gaze right back!
This wholly serendipitous shot, a complete fluke that should, by rights, have been as unidentifiably blurred as all the rest in fact taught me more about wildlife photography than any other I have ever taken. I decided that if it was possible to take an image like this, purely by accident, then it must also be possible to do it on purpose - and sad to say, that siren call to try and achieve that goal is as strong today as it was back then in 2006.
At the time I was a hugely inexperienced photographer - I had only picked up a digital SLR for the first time a week or two prior to departing on the trip, and my experience with slide film was also pretty limited - so, at the time, my desires well and truly outstripped my abilities. However, the hunger and desire stimulated by that one spectacular image drove a virtually addictive frame of mind to do anything and everything to try and get another really meaningful beautifully constructed wildlife image. As a result of that determination my photographic ability today is exponentially greater now compared to back then, yet I still get as excited as a five year old on Christmas morning when I can nail a great image.
And I still learn from practically every image I shoot!

Tony Jay


----------



## Ian.B (Jan 21, 2017)

I was a very much a wait until I got home to the screen/light I knew until watching my daughter edit her photos so quickly on her macbook thing at Xmas. Now I'm starting wonder a lot about old habits . My daughter used to be an editing supervisor with a school photography mob and pretty handy with the Oly and iphone
It all comes down to the finally use of the files and how fussy we are. I would certainly do some filing, rubbish deleting and flagging but likely no editing or very little editing past my basic preset


----------



## davidedric (Jan 21, 2017)

*Reply to Tony
*
Many thanks, Tony, for such an expansive answer (I thought it best not to quote it in full).  It's very compelling, but it's not me, so I had to sit down and think why.

First, a confession.  Probably since taking part in forums, I have come to realise that I am a "traveller who takes photos" rather than a "photographer who travels".  Although I do try to get the best images I can, I most want to recapture how it felt to be there, which isn't always the same thing.  I very much do not live the experience through a lens (and I'm not saying that you do!) but with the sounds and smells, too.  Now if someone would invent a real multi-media, or maybe multi sensory, "camera" that would be wonderful.

Back at camp, engaging especially with the guides (and also fellow travellers) and learning more about the environment and how their lives fit around it has much more appeal than looking at a screen.  Being in a landcruiser with people who are having their first experience of Africa is something I find very enjoyable and rewarding.

Having spent more years shooting slide film than digital, I STILL have to school myself into taking more photos.  Pressing the shutter to catch the vital moment is horribly deeply engrained.

And finally, it's yet another reason to go back (and not just Africa - writing this from Costa Rica  )

Thanks again for the reply,

Dave


----------



## Tony Jay (Jan 21, 2017)

Ian.B said:


> I was a very much a wait until I got home to the screen/light I knew until watching my daughter edit her photos so quickly on her macbook thing at Xmas. Now I'm starting wonder a lot about old habits . My daughter used to be an editing supervisor with a school photography mob and pretty handy with the Oly and iphone
> It all comes down to the finally use of the files and how fussy we are. I would certainly do some filing, rubbish deleting and flagging but likely no editing or very little editing past my basic preset


Ian is correct.
I do not do final edits as far as tone, colour, sharpening and noise reduction are concerned in the field.
However I will apply edits involving all of the above in the field in order to try to evaluate an image - a good image in the field is not going to turn into rubbish at home because I am looking at it on my 30" NEC - it is only going to look better even if I do need to tweak the settings applied in the field. I need to see my images at 1:1 with reasonable edits applied to know if an image will work or not. Occasionally, if I do get a hero image, I will go all out on the edits to try and get it as good as possible within the limitations of a laptop screen. However, most of the time I am just looking to confirm key creative and technical aspects such as composition, colour and white balance, focus, depth of focus, flash effect, and noise. Fine tuning later on is a given.

I know this is not strictly editing but I also go gangbusters with the metadata acquisition and keywording in the field.
It doesn't always work - I have had to come home all the way to Australia to identify certain obscure bird species (this is where all my resources are) or to re-keyword some species because the locals or myself got it wrong.

To me, every part of the photographic workflow is exciting and important - a real production line if you will - and if one part of the line isn't working so well then the end-product will be no good.

Tony Jay


----------



## Tony Jay (Jan 21, 2017)

davidedric said:


> *Reply to Tony
> *
> Many thanks, Tony, for such an expansive answer (I thought it best not to quote it in full).  It's very compelling, but it's not me, so I had to sit down and think why.
> 
> ...


I have quoted your entire reply because it contains many important points!

I absolutely, totally, and thoroughly agree with you regarding enjoying the full multisensory experience on offer, particularly in Africa, but other locations too.
I am an African by birth (just happen to have Caucasian parents though!) who really loves, and appreciates, all that is on offer in all the African countries that I visit.

My workflow in Lightroom allows me to import and assess a day's shoot almost as fast as the computer is able to complete the download off the cards.
As a consequence I tend to miss very little of the activities that you refer to when on my expeditions.
Getting my workflow to this point did take a lot of work and discipline but is totally worth it.

There really is a paradigm shift to shooting digitally, probably most obvious when shooting birds and wildlife, not just in the post-processing of a shoot, but, definitely in the approach to shooting.
These days my minimum card size is 32GB and most are 64GB!
I would rather shoot 50-60 rapid-fire images to get a critical moment than wait and hope to get it with a single snap.
I don't advocate a "blindly pressing the shutter and hoping for the best" approach but an insightful anticipation that something important may occur and shooting through the moment.
Obviously, a complete newbie may have little idea if they do not have any knowledge of likely behaviour in the subject to be shot, but, in fact, all of us are actually somewhere on this learning curve.
The most experienced guides and rangers that I have met on my travels actually readily admit that for all they know they still get surprises every single day.

I will also delete many of those images soon after import once I realize, for one reason or another, that they don't work.
It is actually a very satisfying process - providing one knows that one did indeed get the critical shot!

I have met individuals who believe that this approach soils or sullies the "true" art of photography but it does not hold water.
Every time I press the shutter (and every time I review the results) I am learning to improve my camera technique as well as my aesthetic judgment, and not least appreciate aspects of animal or bird behaviour.
The result has been a very rapid improvement in my ability as a photographer in general, and also, specifically as a bird and wildlife photographer.

Tony Jay


----------



## davidedric (Jan 21, 2017)

Thanks once more Tony.  Hopefully, I'll be back out later this year to South Luangwa in Zambia, our favourite destination, and see if I can crowbar my way out of the way I work.

Regards, Dave


----------



## Tony Jay (Jan 21, 2017)

davidedric said:


> Thanks once more Tony.  Hopefully, I'll be back out later this year to South Luangwa in Zambia, our favourite destination, and see if I can crowbar my way out of the way I work.
> 
> Regards, Dave


Good luck and good shooting!
Zambia is one my favourite places on the planet!

Tony Jay


----------



## Victoria Bampton (Jan 21, 2017)

Great question and discussion guys.

I more frequently travel with my iPad than my laptop, because if I take my laptop, I end up working. It adds as a secondary backup of my files, and since I'm usually travelling alone, I tend to flag/star my photos in the evenings. If I bring them home unrated, I never get around to it! I don't edit the photos though. That waits till I get back to a good screen, beyond a few to send to friends/family.


----------



## mcasan (Jan 21, 2017)

When we were in Kenya in November 2015 I shot around 20,000 raw images over 3 weeks.   We flew Qatar Airways from Nairobi to Doha.   On the second leg from Doha to Chicago (13 hours), I culled from 20,000 to 2,000 just by looking at the jpg previews in Finder on my MacBook.    On that safari everyone had MacBooks except one rocket scientist (he really was) who had his Dell from work.  The serious editing I did at home on a large calibrated monitor.


----------



## tspear (Jan 21, 2017)

I cull the images almost daily, mostly looking if I need to redo a picture (if possible). 
I also have started now doing most of the basic meta-data and some simple edits or post processing. The idea being to find images that do not need to be retaken, but maybe ones that should be retaken, or lessons about the image are fresh in my mind.


----------



## Fred Stephenson (Jan 31, 2017)

Replytoken said:


> I agree.  Except for occasional chimping to make sure that things are fine, and a possible jpeg for an email to family and friends, I leave the processing/culling of my images for when I am home.  I like to be "present" when on holiday/vacation, but to each their own.
> 
> --Ken


Nowadays I mainly shoot with my iPhone and LR Mobile. Getting the best digital negative can be hard sometimes especially with mid-tones. Anyway, I just sync iPhone with my desktop and wait until I'm home.


----------



## Victoria Bampton (Feb 1, 2017)

Fred Stephenson said:


> Nowadays I mainly shoot with my iPhone and LR Mobile. Getting the best digital negative can be hard sometimes especially with mid-tones. Anyway, I just sync iPhone with my desktop and wait until I'm home.



Which iPhone are you using Fred? One with raw support? I'm being tempted to upgrade!


----------



## Jim Wilde (Feb 1, 2017)

Victoria Bampton said:


> I'm being tempted to upgrade!



Me too, but I'm trying to hang on for the 8.....but September seems such a long way off!


----------



## Fred Stephenson (Feb 1, 2017)

Victoria Bampton said:


> Which iPhone are you using Fred? One with raw support? I'm being tempted to upgrade!


Victoria, I'm using the iPhone se which has the same features as the iPhone 6. As far as RAW goes, it supports DNG through LR. I would like to upgrade though because of the new cameras.


----------



## Paul B (Feb 1, 2017)

davidedric said:


> I suspect I am in a minority (and were I a professional or on an assignment I expect it would be different again)





davidedric said:


> I am a "traveller who takes photos" rather than a "photographer who travels"


I'm in Dave's camp here. For me these are the factors that affect how I do things:

I spend as little time as possible with camera-related stuff that I could be doing when I get home. I cull obviously duff images in-camera. I clean my kit and recharge my batteries. At the end of the day everyone has to do do what satisfies them. Sometimes there are time constraints anyway. I'm not long back from a trip that was so full-on there was barely time to cull images.

I'm rarely in the same location for more than a night. And I tend to be travelling as light as I can; out of rucksacks (big one on the back, day pack on the front). It's a luxury to be carrying decent camera kit around without worrying about carrying a laptop and accessories too. Security-wise I don't always have a place to keep a laptop safe; at least I'm carrying my camera with me.

However I do need to sort out some sort of card back-up. I have travelled a lot but I've only taken 'decent' photo kit on a few trips. If that's becoming a focus I really need to better protect that investment in time and weight-carrying.

Also agree with Dave's comment about a 'working' trip. If I was on assignment I would be taking a laptop and a very close look at what I was shooting. Otherwise I can't see myself ever editing or key-wording when I can do that at home. Though I could see myself taking a laptop on the right sort of trip (e.g. one where I had a secure base), but that would be just as cull-and-backup.

But I also 'get' approaches like Tony's, where the workflow supports the reason for the photography which is a principle reason for the trip. As he says it's a personal thing. As long as people are enjoying their photography and their time away, there's no right or wrong.


----------



## Fred Stephenson (Feb 1, 2017)

Agreed, When I'm home camera stuff is over. When I'm out in the field editing just doesn't fit in. When I'm at hope then I can take the time to do a thorough editing. No outside distractions, some good electric blues, though.


----------

