# White balance problems



## odinsride (May 14, 2013)

I'm a fairly experienced Lightroom user but I frequently have trouble getting the correct white balance.  No matter how I set it (with presets, or with eye dropper, or manually), I'll get it looking good, then step away for a while, or few days, come back to the same photos and say "What was I thinking?".  Pictures will look too blue or too green, etc when looking with a fresh set of eyes.  I have a calibrated screen and I think this is a subjective issue, but I'm wondering if there's a surefire way to ensure the white balance is correct? 

I also play around with creative white balance sometimes to give a warmer or cooler tone to the photo, but again what normally happens is that it looks good when I first try it, but when I come back to the picture later it looks way overdone, or tacky.

White balance is my #1 struggle when editing photos, I could really use some help here...sometimes I wonder if I'm partially colorblind 

Any tips or advice would be appreciated.

Edit:
Some additional technical info:
Dell U3011 screen
Mac Pro w/ OSX 10.8
LR 4.4
Canon 5D Mark III
In-camera WB selected per scene, never AWB
I use Camera Faithful profile for all pics


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## clee01l (May 14, 2013)

Sleipnir , Welcome to the forum.
You  are correct WB is subjective.  You can tweak it all you like but in the end you have to pick one color temp and go with it.  I usually choose "AsShot" or "Auto" and move on.  "Auto" take the mathematical approach and calculates the WB based upon the numerical content of the data.  "AsShot" uses the color temperature calculated by the camera an applies this.  I figure both are reasonable.  I've never had much success picking my own gray level although using the dropper sometimes leaves a pleasant rendition. 

What you do not state is whether you shoot RAW or not.  If you don't, then you probably should.  The CR2s ignore WB and camera profiles so what ever settings you make in the camera only apply to the in camera JPEG and embedded JPEG thumbnail. 

Shooting JPEGs will bake in WB, camera profile and exposure.  This severely limits your ability to correct or repair these mistakes in post process.


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## Replytoken (May 14, 2013)

I can sympathize.  I am struggling with an image that I am trying to ship off to a printer, and I keep looking at the results of changes in the WB settings and am not satisfied.  Normally, I do not have much trouble with the dropper, but this image has been a challenge.  I am sure that somebody would suggest shooting with a coffee filter or some type of WB device at the time of your shoot to help you set the correct WB in LR.  I have to admit that I do not use this method, so I cannot personally endorse it.

Good luck,

--Ken


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## Victoria Bampton (May 14, 2013)

Practise, practise, practise and practise are my best tips.

That said, keeping reference photos in your catalog that you can set up on the second window (locked loupe) helps, particularly for things like skintones.


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## gregDT (May 15, 2013)

It's often the way that the tricky white balance shots don't present themselves until your sat staring at them on your computer screen. It can be a pain but carrying a bit of 18% grey card and photographing it whenever lighting changes can save a great deal of time later. It's saved me from making some very questionable WB choices more than once.


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## odinsride (May 15, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the tips.  I do shoot in RAW.  I guess I'll just have to keep practicing.  I do have an 18% grey card but the last time I tried using it, it was not much help (I ended up changing the WB from what card-measured WB should have been because it didn't look right to me)


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## MarkNicholas (May 15, 2013)

Its a disease called "white-balance eyetus". We all get it from time to time. I used to have it real bad... one minute the photo would be ok the next...no it needs tweaking again. I think I have been cured or it just went away. I pretty much use the default camera setting now and sometimes make minor adjustments. For the difficult photos I give myself a minute with the eye dropper and then leave it at that.


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## Tony Jay (May 15, 2013)

Tweaking WB is completely 'eye of the beholder' stuff.
Frankly, a technically correct WB objectively determined, often looks horrible.
Are there times when it is important - yes - if you are an advertising photographer, as an example, one's client wants one to get their brand colours correct.
However most fine art photography, at least, actually benefits from an entirely subjectively determined WB that fits the creative desires of the photographer.

It may take a bit of a paradigm shift but once one has moved away from the notion that there is a single 'correct' WB setting it can actually be rather liberating - so feel free to experiment!

Tony Jay


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## Bryan Conner (May 15, 2013)

Just some food for thought:  You also have to remember that you viewing environment has an effect on your color perception when trying to adjust white balance.  Lots of people will try to do such critical color work while traveling etc.  The color of the room's walls, the color of the ambient light etc changes from location to location.  Even if you work in the same room all of the time, if you have windows, the outside light temperature changes during the day and can affect how you perceive color on the screen.  Your viewing environment is just as important as having a calibrated monitor.  The more consistent (and neutral) that you can make your viewing conditions, the more consistent (and accurate) your color adjustment will become.


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## Replytoken (May 15, 2013)

Tony Jay said:


> It may take a bit of a paradigm shift but once one has moved away from the notion that there is a single 'correct' WB setting it can actually be rather liberating - so feel free to experiment!
> 
> Tony Jay



While this is true, for some of us, too much choice can often times be more frustrating than liberating.  Or as we sometimes say in my office, "paralysis by analysis".  Its great that I have such control over WB, but for some images, picking a "look" is like picking a favorite ice cream flavor.  It depends.  Mostly on how tired and patient I am at the time, but it depends.  Sometimes perfect (or the quest for it) is the enemy of the good!  And this is probably why most of my images never see the light of day.  I have an exhibit coming up on July 1, and it will be a miracle if I can select and process the two dozen or so images that I plan on displaying.  

--Ken


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## Victoria Bampton (May 15, 2013)

Oh, one more tip - get it in the right ballpark and then leave the photo.  Come back to it the next day, and you'll find it easier to get the WB 'right'.  I don't know why it works - I guess because seeing the wildly wrong WB confuses the brain a little.


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## Bryan Conner (May 15, 2013)

Victoria Bampton said:


> Oh, one more tip - get it in the right ballpark and then leave the photo.  Come back to it the next day, and you'll find it easier to get the WB 'right'.  I don't know why it works - I guess because seeing the wildly wrong WB confuses the brain a little.




I know my brain is confused frequently!  But, I think that our brains have an amazing ability to compensate and to adjust for slightly out of balance colors the more we look at a scene.  Our "auto white balance" capabilities are very accurate.  When an image has a slight color cast, we sometimes only notice it on first viewing...before our "auto white balance" updates....


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## gregDT (May 17, 2013)

You may well be right. I worked on the assumption that while we instantly correct colour balance for what we see in real life , we never correct for what we see in print or on a screen. A warm photo always looks warm and a cool image always looks cool...... or so I thought. I've no idea where I got the idea that we never adjust for print and screen though. That we might correct white balance in these cases but do so much slower does explain a lot.


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## Bryan Conner (May 18, 2013)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_constancy is information that you may find interesting.


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