# Understanding External Editing



## rrogers44 (May 13, 2012)

Hello,

I have searched all the other threads on the topic, but still am confused.

I am using LR4 with PSE9 on Windows 7 - 64 bit.  I shoot mostly jpg (sorry) and am in love with some of the easy cropping tools, etc in LR4.  However, sometimes I need to go further.

In a perfect world, I'd like to:

adjust in LR4
Open and edit in PSE9
Save back to PSE9 as jpg
See both files in LR4

However,

If I open with LR adjustments, many of the features in PSE9 are disabled.  Like Layers.  Is this the correct result?  How can I have full functionality in PSE while bringing in LR adjustments?
If I open "edit a copy", it opens as a jpg.  If i edit changes that don't require it becoming a psd, the changes are saved in a new file in LR4.  This is good.
If i add a layer or something else that makes it a psd, it creates a new file that needs to be added to the organizer manually.

Is there a way to open jpgs in PSE with and without adjustments and have them save back to LR?

Thanks,

Rich


----------



## b_gossweiler (May 13, 2012)

Rich,

1) Make sure you have "Copy File Options" set to 8-Bit when doing "Edit Copy with Lightroom Adjustments". This will pass an 8-Bit TIFF/PSD to PSE, which will allow for all PSE editing. Alternatively, you can convert to 8-Bit in PSE.

3) Save it back as JPEG even after adding layers (layers will be flattened).

Beat


----------



## rrogers44 (May 13, 2012)

b_gossweiler said:


> Rich,
> 
> 1) Make sure you have "Copy File Options" set to 8-Bit when doing "Edit Copy with Lightroom Adjustments". This will pass an 8-Bit TIFF/PSD to PSE, which will allow for all PSE editing. Alternatively, you can convert to 8-Bit in PSE.
> 
> ...



Thank you Beat.

That solved issue 1.  For issue 3, do you mean Save or Save As?  Either way, the minute I change the default save in PSE from PSD to JPG it appends the word "copy" to the file name.  When saved this file is then not in LR.
If I open it as a jpeg, then not all the PSE options (like layers) show up.

Thanks,

Rich


----------



## b_gossweiler (May 13, 2012)

Use Save as, uncheck "Layers", set the output to be JPEG and double click the filename which was opened in PSE (the one withoug "-copy"). Then confirm the "Replace?" dialog.

Beat


----------



## rrogers44 (May 13, 2012)

b_gossweiler said:


> Use Save as, uncheck "Layers", set the output to be JPEG and double click the filename which was opened in PSE (the one withoug "-copy"). Then confirm the "Replace?" dialog.
> 
> Beat




Hi Beat,

I must be thick today.  If I open the file as a jpeg in PSE, I for some reason can't do full edits.  If I open it as a PSD, then the jpeg-edit filename never exists, so I can't doubleclick on it.  It looks like perhaps the best option is to open the jpg as a psd and leave it that way.  Although adds spaced and makes my end use more problematic.

Sorry for being dense.

Also, what color space should I use if I open it as a PSD and what if I open it as a jpeg?

Thanks,

Rich


----------



## b_gossweiler (May 14, 2012)

What exact version of LR are you using? 

What exact steps do you perform when opening as JPEG?

What can you not do in PSE when opening as JPEG?

Beat


----------



## b_gossweiler (May 14, 2012)

Add-on:
JPEG should not be available as an option when editin in PSE. So you have to use PSD or TIFF, of which I recommend the latter. When passing an 8-Bit file (which you want because of the limitations in PSE on 16 bit files), you should choose AdobeRGB as color space, because ProPhotoRGB is too large for 8 bits.

I think you were mixing your original questions 1) and 3) in your last post. When you "Edit a Copy" of a JPEG, there won't be a PSD build to be passed to PSE.

Beat


----------



## rrogers44 (May 14, 2012)

b_gossweiler said:


> Add-on:
> JPEG should not be available as an option when editin in PSE. So you have to use PSD or TIFF, of which I recommend the latter. When passing an 8-Bit file (which you want because of the limitations in PSE on 16 bit files), you should choose AdobeRGB as color space, because ProPhotoRGB is too large for 8 bits.
> 
> I think you were mixing your original questions 1) and 3) in your last post. When you "Edit a Copy" of a JPEG, there won't be a PSD build to be passed to PSE.
> ...



Hi Beat,

LR4.1 RC2


When I used PSE organizer, when opening a jpeg the files always open as a jpeg in the editor.  The save as command would always default to jpeg unless advanced changes were made such as adding layers.  Then it would default to a psd file
The option appears in LR4 to open the file in PSE as a jpeg.  When I use this option using "jpeg" "adobeRGB" and "8 bits", it creates a psd file.  So you are correct.  Not sure why the jpeg option shows up.  However, the entire layer pull down menu is grayed out.  Half of the options under filter are grayed out (e.g distort, sketch,....).  Clearly I should not use this option since it does not open as a jpeg anyway.
If I open it as a tiff, "tiff" "adobeRGB" and "8 bits" and no compression, it is fully functional.
However, there is no way to edit this file and save it back as a jpeg without having to load it into LR4 after saving it.
Above you noted that I could "set the output to be JPEG and double click the filename which was opened in PSE (the one without "-copy")"  But the one opened in PSE is a tiff, not a jpeg.  The jpeg saves as a new file or alternatively overwrites the original file, which of course I don't want.

It seems like the only solution is to save as a jpeg and then add it to the catalog manually.

Rich


----------



## b_gossweiler (May 14, 2012)

Rich,

Let's get back to the beginning again. Assuming the original image is a JPEG, we have to differentiate between two scenarios:

Edit a Copy
which will create a Copy of the original JPEG (resulting in a JPEG) and pass it to PSE. You don't get any options as to what file type should be passed to PSE.
Edit a Copy with Lightroom Adjustments
which will create a so called "derivate file" (of which you can choose the format) and pass it to PSE.

*1) Edit a Copy*

A JPEG file will be created, added to the LR catalog, and passed to PSE (you don't get a choice of File Formats, Color Space, Bit Depth etc.)
In PSE, you should be able to perform whatever edits you like
If the edits performed don't use layers, you can _Save _the image (not Save as) under the same name as opened and return to LR, where the adjustments will be shown
If the edits performed involve layers, the Save (or Save as) dialog will propose to save the file as a PSD. You have two options from the Save dialog:
Save the image as PSD (or TIFF), and add the PSD (or TIFF) manually into LR after return (import or synchronize folder).
You will then end up with the original JPEG, an unedited JPEG copy (which you can delete) and an edited PSD (or TIFF) copy in your LR catalog.
Change the file type to JPEG (Layers will be automatically unchecked and "-copy" added to the filename), double click the existing JPEG in the file list and confirm the replacement.
You will then end up with the original JPEG and the edited JPEG copy in your LR catalog.


*2) Edit a Copy with Lightroom Adjustments*

In the "Edit Photo with Adobe Photoshop Elements Editor" dialog, you get a choice of File Types, Color Space, Bit Depth etc. to be passed to PSE.
Do not choose JPEG (this is not supposed to be there at this point of time), but:
I recommend using TIFF
Use 8 Bits as Bit Depth (otherwise your edit functionality will be restricted in PSE)
Use AdobeRGB as Color Space

A TIFF (or PSD) file will be created, added to the LR catalog, and passed to PSE
In PSE, you should be able to perform whatever edits you like
After your edits, perform a _Save_ (not Save as) of the TIFF/PSD.
You will then end up with the original JPEG and the edited TIFF copy in your LR catalog.

Hope that helps.

Beat


----------



## rrogers44 (May 14, 2012)

b_gossweiler said:


> Rich,
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> Beat



Beat,

Yes it does.  Crystal clear.

Looks like for simplicity, when I need to use PSE, perhaps it is best to do all adjustments in PSE.  That way I end up with both jpegs.  If I want my work to be more easily altered later, I will use the tiff option.

Thanks for your help and being patient.

Rich


----------



## b_gossweiler (May 14, 2012)

rrogers44 said:


> Looks like for simplicity, when I need to use PSE, perhaps it is best to do all adjustments in PSE.



Actually, I would not recommend that, as the develop possibilities in LR are (IMHO) much better than in PSE. Why do you care what format your images have in LR after return from PSE? You'll export them into the file format you want, no matter what format the originals are.

Beat


----------



## rrogers44 (May 15, 2012)

b_gossweiler said:


> Actually, I would not recommend that, as the develop possibilities in LR are (IMHO) much better than in PSE. Why do you care what format your images have in LR after return from PSE? You'll export them into the file format you want, no matter what format the originals are.
> 
> Beat



Hi Beat,

I am still getting used to LR vs PSE.  My first concern with format is file size, but I guess that should not worry me with a 2TB drive.  The next concern you nailed is format, but you are correct, when I export to use in a video slideshow, I export as jpeg.

It is certainly much simpler to save it back to LR4 as a tiff or psd rather than messing with jpeg.

It may be a long time before I use LR4 for anything like cloning, redeye, etc...  I have 5 years built up into PSE.  Still, I love the export features, organization, and easy develop of LR.  Just gotta learn the rules.  For instance, I was exporting for my use as "originals" not realizing I was losing my LR edits.  Duh!

Anyway, I think it is clear now and I will go with your suggestion for the rare instances where I need the PSE help.

Thanks,

Rich


----------

