# Do we need a section entitled "Lightroom For Beginners"?



## dj_paige (Jun 2, 2011)

Now that Adobe has offered Photoshop Elements users the opportunity to purchase Lightroom for $99, I have seen many former Elements users show up here as new Lightroom users. I think there could be a large influx of new users because of this, some of whom, to be perfectly blunt, were not terribly adept at Photoshop Elements. As we all know, beginners at Lightroom tend to make small, medium, large or horrific mistakes that experienced users rarely make.

In my opinion, such a section would have three major advantages:

1) The very first post, which could be locked in place, could be entitled "Please Read The Lightroom Starter Kit". Even if this helps one out of ten new users, I think that it would be worth it.

2) A section entitled "Lightroom for Beginners" would seem more welcoming, and beginners wouldn't have to feel apologetic about asking beginner questions.

3) I had a third advantage but I can't think of it right now.

Submitted for discussion.


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## Brad Snyder (Jun 3, 2011)

Good thought Paige. I'm of two minds.

I like the idea of one stop shopping for beginners. But on the other hand we're pretty beginner friendly anyway, (or at least I hope we're perceived that way), and I'm not sure how you effectively draw the line between beginner's and 'regular' forums. 

But thinking caps on for brainstorming improving beginner support is probably a good suggestion.


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## Chris_M (Jun 3, 2011)

Sounds good to me, you get my vote...

Perhaps a closed sticky for Basics Tutorials in that section too,
where more experienced users may deposit Tutorials, by way of PMing said Tutorial to a Mod.
That is, if those more experienced users can make time to create said Tutorials.


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## Kiwigeoff (Jun 3, 2011)

The idea certainly has merit but would benefit from some consideration before implementation.
Tutorials could be worthwhile although maybe links to the already helpful on-line Manual and AdobeTV, etc would be enough. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. 
Just ideas!!


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## dj_paige (Jun 3, 2011)

I think most newcomers won't bother looking for The Lightroom Starter Kit the way things exist today; we need to make that resource more easily found, and having a beginner's section with a sticky topic pointing people to the Starter Kit is one way to do this. I certainly have no problem if we link to other tutorials as well.

Brad ... I don't care how we draw the line between beginner's and regular forums, because as far as I'm concerned, the point isn't how we experienced users perceive this. We experienced users don't benefit from this at all. The point is that beginners see a place for them, and maybe ask questions that they might not otherwise ask, and maybe see the Starter Kit link, and they are better off because of that (and so maybe we experienced users are better off because of this, despite what I said in the previous sentence). But if someone posted a beginner question in some other forum, I don't think that's a problem or issue for any of us.


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## Mark Sirota (Jun 3, 2011)

Photo.net has a beginners questions section.  There are two significant differences between the "Beginner Photography Questions forum" and all the other forums there:

1. Moderation is much more aggressive.  The description reads, "This forum is for basic questions about techniques for new  photographers. Due to this, the Beginner's forum is much more tightly  moderated than other Photo.net forums.Experienced photographers who can  offer patient, helpful and informative replies are greatly appreciated  here!"

2. When you reply to a question, you are presented an intermediate confirmation screen with the same text, bold, in a big bright yellow box.  It is followed by, "Rude or unhelpful posts will be deleted."  You then have to confirm your post.

It does seem to work pretty well there, though I'd like to think we're that friendly everywhere.  There's a big difference here where a set of us are identified as Gurus in a highly visible way, so even newcomers know who to trust.

All in all, I think the idea of making the Starter Kit, FAQs, and other relevant tips more visible to beginners is a great idea.  I'm not sure whether a dedicated beginners forum is the way to do it, mostly because I don't perceive a meaningful difference between it and the rest of the forums.  But if there's no other great way to make those things more visible, then let's do it.


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## Replytoken (Jun 3, 2011)

Mark Sirota said:


> All in all, I think the idea of making the Starter Kit, FAQs, and other relevant tips more visible to beginners is a great idea.  I'm not sure whether a dedicated beginners forum is the way to do it, mostly because I don't perceive a meaningful difference between it and the rest of the forums.  But if there's no other great way to make those things more visible, then let's do it.



A starter kit and FAQs gets my vote (assuming that the starter kit is also sent to every new member when they register).  Its what I try and provide to people when they tell me that they just purchased LR.

--Ken


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## Kiwigeoff (Jun 3, 2011)

Replytoken said:


> A starter kit and FAQs gets my vote (assuming that the starter kit is also sent to every new member when they register).
> 
> --Ken


 
That's a good idea Ken, we all learn something new every day!! Maybe I could look at the starter kit again!!


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## Victoria Bampton (Jun 3, 2011)

Mmmmmm, I like the way you guys think.  

I'm not 100% sure about splitting off another forum, because I get enough email from people asking whether they should post in General Discussion or Troubleshooting, without giving them cause to wonder whether it's a beginner question or normal one.

I definitely love the idea of making a bigger deal of the starter kit though.  It isn't currently sent to new members, but I'll look into that.  Would it help if we split T&T into beginner & advanced, or found a better way of presenting the Starter Kit?  And what about a sticky at the top of General Discussion with the starter kit, and one of those big yellow banners across the top of the screen for new members pointing them that way too?


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## dj_paige (Jun 3, 2011)

Mark Sirota said:


> I'm not sure whether a dedicated beginners forum is the way to do it, mostly because I don't perceive a meaningful difference between it and the rest of the forums.



Let me again point out that the benefit of my suggestion of a Beginner's forum is not based on how our experts would perceive the forum.

My suggestion is based on how a Beginners Forum would be perceived by the beginners who register here. It would seem more welcoming. We often see new people apologizing for asking such a simple question; if there was a beginner's forum, they wouldn't have to feel like they need to apologize, and might even ask extra questions.

Anyway, I do like many of the suggestions in this thread. I am not adamant that a Beginner's Forum is the only way to go.


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## DeeGee (Jun 3, 2011)

A couple of comments, if I may, as a beginner with three months use of LR

Firstly I have found this to be a very friendly forum and when I have posted a question I have had answers from members with many hundreds/thousands of posts which made me feel "warm" in that they took the time to answer to what I now see as an elementary question. I would hate for this atmosphere to be in any way "diluted".

A "Beginner's Sticky" containing some very elemental steps on getting started, links to useful tutorial sites, info on useful books/magazines... yes please.

Starter Kit....  where is this as I would love to have a read through it

I really do not think that a special "Beginners Forum" is needed as there are enough places to post questions and as I said helpful answers come by the bucketfull which is great.

Maybe when people post a query they could state how long they have been using LR as this would give a rough idea as to how much experience they have...eg someone with say 12 months experience querying how LR is a reference/database of where images are stored on the computer would possibly receive a different level of answer to someone who has had LR for a week.

Just some Friday thoughts which may start the ball rolling from other beginners as what is being discussed here going to affect beginners.

David


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## Victoria Bampton (Jun 3, 2011)

David, thanks for adding your comments.  You've made some excellent points!

Here's the starter kit we're talking about: http://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/showthread.php?8288-The-Starter-Kit
If you have any comments on how it could be improved further, we're all ears. Maybe one for a new thread!



DeeGee said:


> Maybe when people post a query they could state how long they have been using LR as this would give a rough idea as to how much experience they have...eg someone with say 12 months experience querying how LR is a reference/database of where images are stored on the computer would possibly receive a different level of answer to someone who has had LR for a week.


 I really like this idea.  Perhaps something worth adding to the profiles on the left, do you think?  Perhaps class yourself as 'beginner, average...' etc?  


Any other beginners fancy adding their thoughts?


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## Denis Pagé (Jun 3, 2011)

Even not being a beginner, I will add my toughts:

The "Experience in profile" idea is a very good one! Probably with "Using Lightroom since _Date_Field_ or _Version_Number_. :nod:

Adding forums will also add clutter. But as my "Starter Kit" is mostly for beginners who are the ones subscribing for immediate help, I would suggest that it is pointed directly in the first automated welcome message.

Example: _"If you are new to Photoshop Lightroom, we strongly recommend that you read Link_To_Started_Kit."_ and some other links if appropriate.


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## DeeGee (Jun 3, 2011)

Victoria,
This forum    Australian Photography   uses "headings" when you log in to "assist" in letting you know what else there is available to you as a member.
It may be an idea to use something this to "promote" things like the Starter Kit which having had a very quick look at would have answered many questions and reduced my hair pulling episodes when I very first started using LR.

David


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## b_gossweiler (Jun 3, 2011)

Denis Pagé said:


> ... The "Experience in profile" idea is a very good one! Probably with "Using Lightroom since _Date_Field_ or _Version_Number_. :nod:
> 
> Adding forums will also add clutter. But as my "Starter Kit" is mostly for beginners who are the ones subscribing for immediate help, I would suggest that it is pointed directly in the first automated welcome message.
> 
> Example: _"If you are new to Photoshop Lightroom, we strongly recommend that you read Link_To_Started_Kit."_ and some other links if appropriate.



I like these ideas more than a separate forum for beginners.

Beat


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## Hal P Anderson (Jun 3, 2011)

I do, too. Both of them. The idea of sending a pointer to the Starter Kit with the welcome message is particularly brilliant. 

Hal


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## clee01l (Jun 3, 2011)

When Paige first posted this idea, I felt that it had substance.  Yet I still had reservations.   However two ideas have come out of this discussion that I do think should be implemented.

Self Perceived Experience level listed in the users profile
A "Welcome to the Forum" email with links to the Starter Kit etc.

Today, I use the "Join Date" as a gauge of a respondents knowledge.  It is not a very good gauge since very new members can come into this group with a vast amount of experience and some long time members only think they know what they are talking about. 

Perhaps the most important thing a new member can do is read the "Starter Kit".  Not only does it short circuit a bunch of inane questions, it also can help prevent a newbie from looking  "daft" (to used Victoria's word)


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## jbourne (Jun 3, 2011)

Victoria Bampton said:


> David, thanks for adding your comments. You've made some excellent points!
> 
> Here's the starter kit we're talking about: http://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/showthread.php?8288-The-Starter-Kit
> If you have any comments on how it could be improved further, we're all ears. Maybe one for a new thread!
> ...


 
Well I definitely qualify as a beginner. I have been using LR 3 for a couple of months now ( my only previous experience was using the trial version or LR 1 )

I found the starter kit, the 10 gotchas and Victorias intro on my first visit. Unless I am exceptionally bright (Joke) I think they were easy enough to find, although I was very hungry for enlightment. I also think I was directed to them by one or more experts in replies to my first few posts as a 'New Member".


I have found the help and the friendly nature on this website to be a real treat, and this was a significant factor in making my decision to go with LR - a big contrast compared to the help and support (or lack of) with my previous raw converter.


I don't really have any strong opinions either way about a beginers section. I didn't think there was any glaring deficiency, but its never a bad thing to want to make things better still. 

If the experts/gurus didn't do such an excellent job already it would be easier to think of ways to improve things. Theres also something to be said for "if it aint broke don't fix it" so take care now.

As far as newbies level of experience goes though perhaps it should be born in mind that its not just their experience with lightroom that is important. To explain what I mean by that lets take an example of making a curves adjustment in lightroom. Consider two new comers asking basically the same question and lets say they have both been using lightroom for a few weeks.

Fred Newbie is just starting out with post capture adjustments, so previously has mostly shot JPEGs and is new to RAW and its advantages.

Bert Newbie on the other hand has been shooting RAW for several years, and has used curves adjustments in other applications (maybe Photo shop) Curves in LR are a bit different though.

Now maybe these two wouldn't actually ask exactly the same question but just for the sake of my example lets just say they are both asking for some basic advise on how to best use this tool. Fred is pretty much a blank canvas, and since he hasn't used curves before, he only needs to know how its done in LR. He might also benefit from some additional tips since he is new to RAW and curves in general. Bert on the other hand knows how to use curves, and appreciates the need to take care and he knows the benefits of RAW vs JPEG and understands non destructive editing. He just needs a bit of subtle re-adjustment. He might appreciate that you can still do the old point adjustment method that he's familiar with but hadn't noticed the option. Depending on his character he might or might not be amenable to being guided to doing things the LR way. 

My example is weak but I hope you get my gist.

So if you are thinking about any form of tailoring the site in ways that depend on a members experience, it might be prudent to consider that experience in a wider context that just strictly with LR itself

Best Regards
John


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## Brad Snyder (Jun 3, 2011)

John, thanks for the thoughtful feedback.


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## Kiwigeoff (Jun 3, 2011)

b_gossweiler said:


> I like these ideas more than a separate forum for beginners.
> 
> Beat


 Those of us who are Adobe experts know that we have at times to fill in options: like: I know a little, I know something or I know a lot. These say it well IMHO.

p.s. I know a lot :razz: about a little and something about a lot!!!:razz::shock:


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## Replytoken (Jun 4, 2011)

Great suggestions!  To add a bit more, I am picturing the Starter Kit as having a number of links with brief descriptions of each link.  The links could be to "stickies" in the forums, or they could be to stand-alone pages if the forum software supports that.  The links could also be grouped according to high-level topics.  For example:  Overview; Importing; Development Techniques; Publishing; and, Printing.  This way, a new member can get a brief overview of the topic(s) that they wish to learn about.  I guess you could set it up like a Wiki if that style works for folks.  No matter the form, the important thing is that it be flexible so it can easily be updated and added to as need be.

--Ken


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## Victoria Bampton (Jun 4, 2011)

You guys have fantastic ideas!

The forum software has a CMS which could work better for the Starter Kit and T&T, or Wiki software is a great idea Ken.  I'll look into that further, but if anyone has any experience along those lines, it might be worthy of a separate thread.  We can definitely make more of the starter kit.

In the meantime, I've already updated the brightly coloured bars at the top of the new members welcome screen (you can dismiss it!!), and I'll update the welcome email to point new users to the existing Starter Kit too.

I've updated the profile options with Lightroom experience.

We won't rush at a separate subforum yet, but thank you so much for starting this thread Paige.


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## Jim Wilde (Jun 4, 2011)

Victoria, after you did that update I was forced into updating my profile, which is fine for the new 'level of experience' question....however I was also forced into filling out the anti-spammer question which may be irksome to some.


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## Victoria Bampton (Jun 4, 2011)

Ah, ok, thanks Jim.  I've switched it to only ask when updating profile.  Unfortunately there's no 'required only at registration' option for the anti-spam question, but it should be a one off.  That anti-spam question's working a treat for staving off spammers!


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## DeeGee (Jun 4, 2011)

Victoria, the bright yellow banner works a treat and is soooo useful.
I upgraded my profile to show a Beginner but it does not show on the panel on the left of my posts. I changed my location details at the same time and they now show.

David


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## Victoria Bampton (Jun 4, 2011)

Oh yes, I forgot about the sidebar!  Coming right up...


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## DeeGee (Jun 4, 2011)

Victoria Bampton said:


> Oh yes, I forgot about the sidebar!  Coming right up...



Looks good. Lets see how efective it is now...


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## dj_paige (Jun 4, 2011)

While I am glad that we have lots of good ideas, some of which are already implemented or will be implemented soon, I guess I am underwhelmed by the yellow banner. I didn't even see it. I looked down the list of forums, and found the forums with new posts, and started reading the new posts. So it didn't even register on my brain. 

Part of the problem, the way I surf the web, is I ignore what seems to be advertisements (that don't have pretty girls in them). So my brain simply loses the yellow banner as part of the advertisement immediately above it. Even considering that other people surf the web in different ways, in my opinion, this yellow banner, or something similar, *needs to be clearly separated from advertisements*, and *should be clearly part of the text that is associated with forum information*, for example, as in a sticky first post in each (or each appropriate) forum.


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## Victoria Bampton (Jun 4, 2011)

Hmmmmm.  And I ignore stickies...   Ok, maybe a sticky at the top of general discussion too?


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## Jim Wilde (Jun 4, 2011)

I did actually see the banner this morning, but probably only because I use Adblock Plus so don't see adverts....thus the banner was noticeable.

How about simply giving the Tip and Tricks forum a bit more prominence? Move it higher up the list, maybe to the top of the list, and rename it to something like "Tips, Tricks and the Starter Kit".


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## Bruce J (Jun 4, 2011)

Re: What is a beginner

I think the whole idea of identifying beginners is a bit more complicated than has been discussed so far.  As an example, I don't consider myself a LR beginner, as I've been using it since the first PC beta.  I feel that I'm pretty fluent in the Library module, do a lot w/ keywords, and I'm reasonably adept at the develop module, slideshow, and printing.  However, I think I've used the adjustment brush a couple times (so much for understanding the develop module) and I've never used the web module or publish services (yet).  So, while I might ask a fairly sophisticated question about what's going on in the library module, if I ask questions about the web module they will be strictly from a new user perspective.  Maybe we should be thinking about beginner vs. expert questions instead of beginner vs. expert people?

I do think that pointing new users to the starter kit w/ a banner and a welcome message is a great idea.  Anything to get users to understand the basics of LR before they get into trouble is very helpful.  Of course, that begs the question of how to get new users to join the forum before they get into trouble (different topic).  As I've said many times over the years, the people who do the majority of the hand-holding here are doing a fab job.  Couldn't ask for any better, but just thought I'd add my thoughts to this discussion.  Kudos to you all!


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## clee01l (Jun 4, 2011)

dj_paige said:


> ...I guess I am underwhelmed by the yellow banner. I didn't even see it. I looked down the list of forums, and found the forums with new posts, and started reading the new posts. So it didn't even register on my brain. ...


 Which is as it should be.  You are not a new user and you don't want something like that in your face each time you enter the forum.   OTOH, a yellow banner is something a new user should notice.  Where it would bother me is if the information in the 'yelow banner'  were to change on a not so regular basis containing new vital information and I have trained my eyes and mind to ignore it just as  I have trained it to ignore the RPG ad.   I think it garnera just the right amount of attention for those that need it without being a nuisance for regular users.


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## Replytoken (Jun 4, 2011)

Bruce J said:


> As an example, I don't consider myself a LR beginner, as I've been using it since the first PC beta.  I feel that I'm pretty fluent in the Library module, do a lot w/ keywords, and I'm reasonably adept at the develop module, slideshow, and printing.  However, I think I've used the adjustment brush a couple times (so much for understanding the develop module) and I've never used the web module or publish services (yet).  So, while I might ask a fairly sophisticated question about what's going on in the library module, if I ask questions about the web module they will be strictly from a new user perspective.  Maybe we should be thinking about beginner vs. expert questions instead of beginner vs. expert people?



This sounds very similar to my situation.  There are many areas where I feel like I have a good handle on things, and then there are other areas where I would not know where to begin.  Personally, I liked the idea of listing which version we started with.  But, I do not want to make Victoria crazy with minor web site changes.  Let's get her with the big ones!! :bluegrin:

--Ken


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## clee01l (Jun 4, 2011)

Replytoken said:


> This sounds very similar to my situation.  There are many areas where I feel like I have a good handle on things, and then there are other areas where I would not know where to begin.  Personally, I liked the idea of listing which version we started with.  But, I do not want to make Victoria crazy with minor web site changes.  Let's get her with the big ones!! :bluegrin:
> 
> --Ken


Somewhere back in the replies, I made a comment that the Profile should include the *User's perceived* level of experience.  Victoria chose 4 levels and gave them descriptive names (It could have been just as easily I, II, III, & IV)  Pick one that you think fits closest.  If a user overrates or under rates themselves, it will soon become apparent.  (You can always change it later)  It can help the beginner weigh the value of a response. especially from power users that aren't tagged as a Guru.  Even those of us that do get an 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  can't and don't know everything. I know that before I got tagged a Guru, I was a lot more likely to give an answer that might be 'mostly' correct knowing that there likely be a Guru that would follow along behind me to set the record straight.


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## b_gossweiler (Jun 5, 2011)

While talking about a profile tag to show the Self Perceived Experience level in LR, what do you think about having the same for a Self Perceived Experience level on the PC handling side? Sometimes it would help to know what level of advice to give to users when it comes to LR-OS interaction.

Beat


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## Jim Wilde (Jun 5, 2011)

Excellent point, Beat!


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## wirehunt (Jun 9, 2011)

How about a simple title change?  LightRoom tips, tricks and _starter guide_.

I know whenever I join a forum I look at the titles before I dive in. It's already a sticky in there and that little title change might make it more findable.


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## Kimberly Cher Photography (Jun 19, 2011)

**my 2 cents that doesnt really ad to the topic** but, as of last night KiwiGeoff Walker is my alltime LR hero.. Just sayin.


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## dj_paige (Jun 28, 2011)

Judging by some of the threads here started by new people (some of whom I knew from Photoshop Elements and have clearly taken advantage of the Adobe offer of purchasing Lightroom for $99), I think that guiding people to the Starter Kit with the yellow banner has not been effective. We need to do more. I cringe when I read some of the things that these newbies are asking and trying on their own. 

I am open to suggestions.


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## Victoria Bampton (Jun 29, 2011)

I haven't had chance to update the newbie intro email yet.  I'm slowly catching up with myself!  Hopefully that'll help too.


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## LouieSherwin (Jun 30, 2011)

Victoria,

Maybe we should recommend that they all purchase your book 

-louie


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## Victoria Bampton (Jun 30, 2011)

LOL  Well I'd have no objection to that, of course!  Actually, I do have another (free) project on the go, which will help with this issue, but it's very much a work in progress so it'll be a while before I can say more.


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## mikecox (Jun 30, 2011)

Brad Snyder;87013 we're pretty beginner friendly anyway said:
			
		

> I haven't read all of this thread; which I plan to do as soon as I post this, but speaking as a beginner I can attest to that.:nod:
> 
> I have felt very welcome here, playing with the big kids; even when I ask stupid questions
> 
> ...


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## mikecox (Jun 30, 2011)

Chris_M said:


> Sounds good to me, you get my vote...
> 
> Perhaps a closed sticky for Basics Tutorials in that section too,
> where more experienced users may deposit Tutorials, by way of PMing said Tutorial to a Mod.
> That is, if those more experienced users can make time to create said Tutorials.


Why not a section devoted to tutorials instead?


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## mikecox (Jun 30, 2011)

DeeGee said:


> Maybe when people post a query they could state how long they have been using LR as this would give a rough idea as to how much experience they have..


Isn't that already indicated, in the member's info on the left?


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## Replytoken (Jul 4, 2011)

mikecox said:


> Why not a section devoted to tutorials instead?



I think that Michael's suggestion is excellent.  Tutorials would be a great place, and not just for beginners.  It would allow us to share how we tackle specific techniques or issues.  I second his suggestion, as I enjoy learning how to handle specific issues from those who have already tackled them.

--Ken


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## Victoria Bampton (Jul 7, 2011)

So, just to clarify, how would you see the Tutorials section being different from the Tips & Tricks section?


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## Replytoken (Jul 7, 2011)

Victoria Bampton said:


> So, just to clarify, how would you see the Tutorials section being different from the Tips & Tricks section?



A good question, Victoria.  Since I always search for posts since my last visit, I almost forgot about Tips & Tricks.  While we could use this section for technique, I see that most of the previous posts were mostly addressing "mechanical" issues of LR.  IN this instance, I think of technique as more directly related to how we apply LR tools to an image to improve or change it.  A good example is this thread:  http://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/showthread.php?12581-Fixing-Exposure .  I believe that there certainly is a need for both types of questions, "mechanical" and "artistic", to be addressed, and often thought it would be great if we had video tutorials to walk people through techniques, but that requires a great amount of time and energy.  But, it might be helpful if we had a companion site where an image could be posted and people could demonstrate techniques or offer advice.  I cant think of how many times I wonder how others apply techniques to either clean up an image or to give it a unique look.  Granted, there are many tutorials, videos and podcasts out there, and many are quite helpful.  But, sometimes it would be great if I could just load up an image and see what others would do with it to obtain a certain look or correct a problem.  I realize that I am dreaming big (especially for a volunteer run forum), but I thought it was better to toss out some ideas for thought in case it inspires a workable idea.  Thanks for hearing me out.

--Ken


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## mikecox (Jul 7, 2011)

Victoria Bampton said:


> So, just to clarify, how would you see the Tutorials


Longer, in depth;  dealing with complex issues requiring careful attention 





> Tips & Tricks section?


Short and easy to grasp subjects that require little effort to comprehend.

Tutorials would be like going to fine restaurant for a gourmet meal, while Tips and Tricks would be more like fast food.


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## Denis Pagé (Jul 11, 2011)

mikecox said:


> Why not a section devoted to tutorials instead?



It seem we are turning around with this subject that we discussed last time mid january 2010 and that we started to think about after the january 24th 2009 at the closure of Inside Lightroom... 

Is www.lightroomforumsblog.net remembering you something?


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## Replytoken (Jul 11, 2011)

Denis Pagé said:


> It seem we are turning around with this subject that we discussed last time mid january 2010 and that we started to think about after the january 24th 2009 at the closure of Inside Lightroom...
> 
> Is www.lightroomforumsblog.net remembering you something?



I looked back on this thread, and at least I am consistent in my thoughts and requests, FWIW. :bluegrin:

--Ken


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## Victoria Bampton (Jul 12, 2011)

Nope, I'd forgotten about it completely!

We do have the CMS plug-in for the vBulletin software, which we could use for a tutorials-blog type situation.  The question is, does anyone have time to write them?

I'm absolutely swamped at the minute, so I can't do anything about integrating the CMS at the mo, but it is on my to do list.  I have a whole heap of other projects on the go at the moment though, so writing more articles isn't going to hit the top of the list for some time, even once the CMS is in use.  Would anyone else be up for it?


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## Mark Sirota (Jul 12, 2011)

I'd be up for writing, but not as much for coming up with topics.  Perhaps an internal guru-only forum to maintain a list of topics, and/or a place for all users to make suggestions?


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## Victoria Bampton (Jul 12, 2011)

Mark Sirota said:


> Perhaps an internal guru-only forum to maintain a list of topics, and/or a place for all users to make suggestions?



Yep, that would be doable.


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## Jim Wilde (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm keen to help as well, but your builders headed north-east after leaving you, Victoria....and they're now camped out in my backyard and are likely to be here for much of the rest of the year. So my time is unusually limited at the moment and I'm already aware that I have a backlog of stuff to do here....Mark wanted me to write-up a procedure for setting up and sharing a catalog on a single EHD between two computers, and Beat asked me to write-up a bug report for that Watermark 'feature' that's cropped up again.....and is it me, or are we suddenly getting a lot more 'problem fix' business?

Will do my best to help, but.....


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## Victoria Bampton (Jul 12, 2011)

TNG said:


> is it me, or are we suddenly getting a lot more 'problem fix' business?


Funny, I was thinking much the same earlier this evening, as I tried to wrap my befuddled brain round one of the long threads. Somehow the problems seem to have become more complicated (or we're all more tired!)


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## Replytoken (Jul 13, 2011)

I appreciate that our moderators are being realistic about their time commitments, as I know that I am behind in my obligations as well, and would be reluctant to take on any new commitments.  Unfortunately, no easy solution is coming to mind that would meet some of our new interests, yet limit the amount of time needed from our volunteer moderators, but I will keep mulling this over with the hope that some good idea will eventually make itself known.

Thanks,

--Ken


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## Mark Sirota (Jul 13, 2011)

I have another idea, if we want to formalize this further -- a moderated/edited blog.  Ken could be the blog editor, lining up subjects and writers and the like.  His job would be to herd the cats.  That might be too formal for this site, though...  A less formal idea would be to split Tips & Tricks into how-to articles and opinion pieces, or something like that.  The latter would be for the pros and cons of DNG, multiple catalogs, backup strategies, etc.


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## Kiwigeoff (Jul 13, 2011)

I think there is merit in some of the proposed ideas however would we be better served by having a section where links to what already exists such as Help, AdobeTV, etc are posted with the subject stated. Why reinvent was is already freely available - we would just be nannying:wub: users instead of helping them to help themselves.:shock:
I have no time to commit to such a project and in fact will be scarce for the next few weeks as I'm busy with other projects. 
I don't want to see Victoria burdened with anything more as the job she is doing is way beyond reasonable anyway!!:nod:

:surprised::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## Victoria Bampton (Jul 13, 2011)

Seems to me this is going off in 2 different directions - providing more information for beginners, and providing more in depth stuff for regulars.

One of the projects I have on the go at the moment should assist the beginners, but it's making slightly slow progress at the moment because I'm absolutely shattered and still up to my ears in other stuff.

As far as the more in depth stuff goes, what are we actually looking for?  I'm all for making it more interesting for more advanced users, but I do have some concerns about the time commitments, since I know everyone's really busy and there's nothing worse than an empty blog (she says, thinking of her own... ).  Something that could be open for everyone to contribute is the direction I'm tending to lean at the moment.

A section of links to good tutorials, blogs, etc. is definitely a possibility.  What if we had an area where you could post a link to an interesting blog post or thread that you've read, and everyone can discuss it in more detail?  Would that be of interest?

What about a separate subforum for advanced users, to help to separate these more complex threads (proper use of metadata, smart collections for workflow, etc.) off from the problem solving and newbie questions?


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## clee01l (Jul 13, 2011)

Being 'retired', I have more time to fritter away.  I can contribute to certain tutorials where I feel that I have the right expertise.  My only commitments ATM are teaching two photography classes in late September and Early October. (AND developing the class material in the form of a Powerpoint lesson plan).


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## dj_paige (Jul 13, 2011)

Unfortunately, I am rather disappointed at the way this thread has gone. From my original idea of making beginners more welcome with their own forum... it has morphed into making a forum for Advanced users. My thought that a forum for beginners would be a more welcoming place for beginners was dismissed or ignored ... and that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion, and there were some good reasons offered for not having a forum for beginners. But how a forum for advanced users helps beginners is hard for me to fathom. And the same reasons you offered for not creating a forum for beginners seems to me to apply to not creating a forum for advanced users.


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## Victoria Bampton (Jul 13, 2011)

dj_paige said:


> And the same reasons you offered for not creating a  forum for beginners seems to me to apply to not creating a forum for  advanced users.



TBH, I'd forgotten that's where the thread started, but my thinking was  simply that most of the questions are 'beginners' questions and most new  members tend to post in whichever subforum is busiest - in this case,  General Discussion.  The beginners all seem quite happy there, so there's been no rush to change anything, however I'd forgotten the logic that it could point newbies to the starter kit more easily.  Nothing is ruled out at this stage.

I was simply thinking that more advanced members have been members here for longer, and would therefore be more comfortable selecting the right forum, whereas newbies tend to follow the herd.  What were the reasons we decided against having separate subforums?

My head is absolutely fried at the minute, so no final decisions on anything at the moment, but I'm very open to ideas.  Rather than taking this thread any further off topic, I've started another thread with a poll to get your feedback.  http://www.lightroomqueen.com/commu...ubforums-or-do-we-want-them-split-another-way


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## b_gossweiler (Jul 13, 2011)

TNG said:


> .....and is it me, or are we suddenly getting a lot more 'problem fix' business? ...



I also noticed that, as my time is a little limited lately, it's even hard to catch up after not reading for a day ....

As far as the tutorials go, I'm with Geoff, I think links to existing resources would help. Maybe we an open a thread in the Gurus forum and start contributing.

Beat

Beat


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