# Generic question about the use of profiles



## quicky (Apr 4, 2018)

Hi guys!

I've seen some threads about the new profiles in LR but none matched my pretty generic question about it, so here it is 

What would be your recommendation on how to use it? I’m asking this because I know the theory behind it and there were times when I started my retouching by changing the profile to the best match and after this I’ve started changing shadows/lights/saturation etc. so for me the profile-setting existed in order to best match the Lightrooms interpretation of my camera’s raw image. But know with all the “artistic” profiles I wonder why I should chose one of them first instead of doing this manually with the curves that I used before?

I also know about future possibilities for LUTs which might better match a specifc target and that Adobe is already working with 3rd parties to release addons in the future but for me as the end-user today, why would I now give the image an “artistic”-touch with the profile setting instead of using a preset or manually do it?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Cheers,

quicky!


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## Victoria Bampton (Apr 4, 2018)

This might help with the "what's the difference between profiles and presets" question: Lightroom Raw & Creative Profiles | The Lightroom Queen  Essentially presets move sliders which can undo edits you've already done, whereas profiles are a separate layer of adjustments. And profiles can do much more complex adjustments than presets, especially for those artistic type presets. 

The idea is basically that you pick your "look" before you start editing, just like you'd have picked your film stock based on the general feel you wanted. You may not ever use the artistic profiles, if they're not to your taste. Personally I prefer more traditional color photos, but I'm liking the B&W creative profiles. You can pick and choose what you use.


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## quicky (Apr 4, 2018)

Hi Victoria,

Thats very helpful context. I'm still having a bit of a challenge that those profiles provide a specific look and I can either like it or not. Whereas with "presets" if I like it but I would like to change some aspects of it I could still alter what has been prepared.

I understood the concept before when it was like "Profiles are predefined as they reflect the interpretation of the camers-manufacturer but now with the new profiles I think the missing "sliders" for profiles is a bit strange to me (even though its nice to have an adjustment-layer for changing aspects in addition to presets of course).

But again, thanks and also thanks a lot for preparing all the information shared on the link you provided. Again, really helpful. I already downloaded the SDK to dig deeper into profile-creation 

Cheers,

Oliver


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## Victoria Bampton (Apr 4, 2018)

quicky said:


> Profiles are predefined as they reflect the interpretation of the camers-manufacturer



So think of these creative profiles as "profiles are predefined as they reflect the interpretation of the profile developer". That's the same idea.


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## rob211 (Apr 5, 2018)

Look at what some of the film people do with them. They might want an old film look, where the colors were all say greenish, or maybe a lot of sepia. Doing color grading can alter the whole look of an entire movie. And profiles are a way to do exactly the same thing with your images. Sometimes it's hard to do in Lr, but much easier in Ps. In Ps for example you can access whole color channels, and use different ways to blend different effects. And now with profiles you can do something like that to one image in say Ps, save that as a LUT, and make it into a profile you can use in Lr.  And then use it on say a bunch of similar images, the way the movie people do to match up different scenes so they look consistent. Like if say a client wanted a bunch of wedding shots that had an old kodachrome look.


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## five.photos (Apr 5, 2018)

quicky said:


> What would be your recommendation on how to use it? I’m asking this because I know the theory behind it and there were times when I started my retouching by changing the profile to the best match and after this I’ve started changing shadows/lights/saturation etc. so for me the profile-setting existed in order to best match the Lightrooms interpretation of my camera’s raw image. But know with all the “artistic” profiles I wonder why I should chose one of them first instead of doing this manually with the curves that I used before?



For me, the profiles are most useful to be applied when importing from my Olympus OM-D E-M5II. Adobe provides a "Camera Natural" profile for my camera that pretty well simulates my camera's natural mode I shoot most often with. The photos don't look as flat this way compared to imports using the "Adobe Standard" profile. In a way, this allows me to shoot RAW only and still get the "same" results as if I had shot JPEG. This reduces my editing time significantly as I don't have to retouch the shots I already nailed in-camera.

I also like the new Adobe RAW profiles, especially the "Adobe Landscape" profile. I see myself using it often as a starting point. I wish Adobe would add even more profiles to simulate the various shooting modes I find on my camera. Profiles for the Olympus ART filters would be fab, too!

My question is: Do I have to reset the "Set Default Settings..." in the develop module in order to properly apply the new profiles on import? Or am I fine without changing anything if I used the same feature with the "old" profiles before?



Victoria Bampton said:


> And profiles can do much more complex adjustments than presets, especially for those artistic type presets.



Why is that, Victoria? Profiles have the same sliders to work with as presets do, no? I understand that profiles don't move the sliders, but they still have to rely on the same capabilities the develop module provides, right?


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## rob211 (Apr 5, 2018)

five.photos said:


> I also like the new Adobe RAW profiles, especially the "Adobe Landscape" profile. I see myself using it often as a starting point. I wish Adobe would add even more profiles to simulate the various shooting modes I find on my camera. Profiles for the Olympus ART filters would be fab, too!
> 
> My question is: Do I have to reset the "Set Default Settings..." in the develop module in order to properly apply the new profiles on import? Or am I fine without changing anything if I used the same feature with the "old" profiles before?
> 
> ...



I have that Oly, and yeah, it would be good to get the ART filters. I am currently on the prowl for the more freakish profiles.

That ties into why the profiles are a Big Deal. That's because they can essentially change much more about the color/tone in your image than what can be done in Lr. Far more. If you've used Ps you'll see that one can use like ways to blend or subtract colors that just aren't possible in Lr. So by making such radical changes (kinda like the ART filters), then saving a look up table (which is a way of mapping colors onto other colors) then those can be incorporate into a profile. But they could NOT necessarily be translated to just slider changes in Lr, like traditional presets. So it opens an easy way for some people to make some more crazy stuff. I just downloaded some infrared camera profiles, eg, that turn blue into red, so that I can work for the gov't faking those Martian lander photos.

I'm not entirely sure about how presets and profiles changed, if at all, at import, or as defaults. I have used Passport Colorchecker imports all along and I assume it still works the same way.


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## Speacock110 (Apr 5, 2018)

I am still trying to get my head around how profiles and presets interact. I used to apply a preset on import that made sure that Lens Calibration was turned on and a ColorChecker passport profile was applied Either 5DMk2 or 5DMk4. After that all presets kept that profile and modified on top of it. Now they all appear to overright that profile with Adobe Standard, Yet Adobe Color is supposed to be the new default. 
What is happening?
How do I correct This?
This is in my import preset and it used to choose the correct camera profile, it does not appear to currently, should it?


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## Dan Marchant (Apr 6, 2018)

quicky said:


> Hi Victoria,
> Thats very helpful context. I'm still having a bit of a challenge that those profiles provide a specific look and I can either like it or not. Whereas with "presets" if I like it but I would like to change some aspects of it I could still alter what has been prepared.


But Profiles can be changed. The sliders are still active after a profile is applied so you can alter the standard develop setting that were defined in the profile. So if the Profile sets Clarity of +5 you can set the slider to +5 (giving a total of +10) or to -5 (zero) or -10 (-5) etc. You can also use the new Amount slider to do a "global" adjustment of the profile.


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## Dan Marchant (Apr 6, 2018)

Speacock110 said:


> I am still trying to get my head around how profiles and presets interact. I used to apply a preset on import that made sure that Lens Calibration was turned on and a ColorChecker passport profile was applied Either 5DMk2 or 5DMk4. After that all presets kept that profile and modified on top of it. Now they all appear to overright that profile with Adobe Standard, Yet Adobe Color is supposed to be the new default.
> What is happening?
> How do I correct This?
> This is in my import preset and it used to choose the correct camera profile, it does not appear to currently, should it?


You don't correct this because it is working as designed (and as it has always worked). Adobe are working on the assumption that you created your old Preset to look a particular way and that you want it to stay that way. 

When the Preset was created the image had a certain Profile applied and a particular set of Slider settings. The look of the image depends on the combination of base settings in the Profile plus the settings of the Sliders. If you picked a different Profile while developing the Preset the image would look different even with the same Slider settings (because the Profile's base setting get added to those of the Sliders).  So, if you want each image you apply your Preset to to look the same they need the same Profile. Hence, when you apply a Preset it changes the current Profile to the one used to develop the Preset. 

Exceptions
Of course there may be some Presets where you don't want the Profile changed. For example a Preset that will add a Post Crop Vignette with the same set of settings, which you will use on both colour and black & white images. Obviously if you apply this preset to a B&W image you don't want the profile changing to Adobe Standard as that is a colour Profile. 

This is handled in the Preset creation dialogue by unticking Treatment and Profile so that only the slider settings are applied. 

In short. Unless you specifically want your existing Presets to look different on every image (depending on the Profile applied) you don't need to worry or do anything.


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## rob211 (Apr 6, 2018)

Actually, since I use Colorchecker as well on most images as a default, and that raises a question for me too.

Is there a way to apply a profile upon import without making it part of a preset? Especially on a camera-specific basis? It looks like we still have to use presets for use at import and during quick develop; it would be very nice if there was a way certain cameras could have a user-specified default profile applied automatically  but I don't see any way to do that. Like say one of the Colorchecker profiles.


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## Johan Elzenga (Apr 7, 2018)

Yes, you should be able to set another profile in the camera defaults. That does exactly what you want: add a profile on import, and do it on a per camera basis. Select an image, reset all develop settings, change the profile and then update the camera defaults by clicking on the Reset button while holding the Alt key. You have to do this for each camera.


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## Victoria Bampton (Apr 7, 2018)

five.photos said:


> Why is that, Victoria? Profiles have the same sliders to work with as presets do, no? I understand that profiles don't move the sliders, but they still have to rely on the same capabilities the develop module provides, right?



Nope, profiles can also apply adjustments based on 3D lookup tables, whereas presets can only use sliders. That means the developer can decide they want one shade of blue to get lighter, another shade of blue to get warmer, a different shade of blue to cooler, etc. You can't do that with sliders.


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## five.photos (Apr 7, 2018)

Victoria Bampton said:


> Nope, profiles can also apply adjustments based on 3D lookup tables, whereas presets can only use sliders. That means the developer can decide they want one shade of blue to get lighter, another shade of blue to get warmer, a different shade of blue to cooler, etc. You can't do that with sliders.


Cool! Thanks!


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