# Laptop comparisons for Lightroom Use



## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 10, 2009)

Hello all,
I'm relatively new here.  I'm a photo hobbyist, on my second round of trying the "RAW road" and hope to stay on this path. I just installed LR 2.4 on my older laptop after a trial period and am now looking to invest in an upgrade. I currently have an older pc laptop and it runs LR albeit slow. I haven't done much developing at all, but have been working at organizing, keywording and rating my existing pics. I do not intend to do much fancy developing, with no intention at all to do photoshop type stuff. I just want to be able to export my raws into web ready and print ready (8x1's or less) jpgs, but would like to play with syncing and such to make the process faster. Right now my budget is in the $1,''' range, and the following two laptops are going for $135' and 1449 respectively. I'd like opinions, based on the above and the specs below, on what you think might be best. I am currently quite happy with WINXP, but hate Vista from the little playing around I've done with it and would want to upgrade to WIN7 as soon as it's released (which is when?). I am open to going the Mac route, although that means another investment in software that can copy windows, since I have a few other favorite programs that are windows only platforms.

 PC: MAC: 15.4" WXGA 128'x8'' widescreen LCD TFT 15.4" LED backlit glossy widescreen 144'x9'' Intel Montevina Core 3 Duo Mobile T95' Dual-Processor (2x2.66ghx/6mb Cache 1'66FSB) Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.53 GHz (2x 2GB SO-DIMMS 6MB shared 1'66MHz DDR3SDRAM [supports up to 4GB]) 4GB (2 GB x2) DDR2-8'' PC64'' NVIDIA GeForce 96''M GT and NVIDIA GeForce 94''M w/ 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM shared with main memory 512MB NVIDIA GEForce GO 96''M GT PCI-Express 3D Video 512MB GDDR3 3D Premium Surround sound onboard Built-in stereo speakers, built-in ominidirectional microphone, combined optical digital input/analog line in, combined optical digital output/analog line out Built-in 1'/1''/1''' Network LAN Built-in 1'/1''/1''' BASE T (Gigabit) Ethernet 5'' GB 72''rpm serial ATA-15' hard drive 32' GB 54''rpm serial ATA 2X Blu-Ray-R/8x Dual Format DVD+-R/=-RW +16x CD-R/RW Combo drive 8x Superdrive (DVD+-R DL/DVD+-RW/CD-RW) built in 3 in 1 media card reader/writer (*I use SD cards) ---------- 56K fax modem ----------- Intel Pro/wireless 53'' 8'2.11 a/gn/ WiFi Link Built-in Airport Extreme Wi-Fi (based on IDDD 8'2.11n draft spec), built-in bluetooth 2.1 +EDR (enhanced data rate) module Win Vista Home Premium with $29 rebate coupon for Win7 Built in Apple apps? 3x USB 2.' ports [ firewire??? ] 2 USB 2.' ports (up to 48'mps), 1 firewire 8'' (up to 8''mps) carrying case, 2.' MP web video camera built-in iSight camera, mini display port output port with support for DVI, VGA and dual link DVI (requires adapters, separately) 1 year limited warranty 1 year limited warranty
I would greatly appreciate your opinions- both PC/WIN and on specs regardless of machine.
NJHeart2Heart Dawn


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## Denis Pagé (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

The Mac seem more versatile for when you will use more technologies. Altough, you have to add the price of a Windows licence to it so you can boot either Mac OS X or Windows. On the other side, you can't run Mac OS on the PC...

And those LED backlit screens are nice too! And more pixels on screen is an advantage with Lightroom.


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

Thanks much for the reply Denis. 1 for the Mac...
I thought there was other software out there that would "mirror" windows, that is not actually the windows OS. Hopefully, because I can only imagine Win7 will probably cost a fortune as standalone software...


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## Replytoken (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

Welcome. I'll take a stab at a few of the questions/topics that you have raised. Win7 is to be released in late October, so if you go the PC route, you could buy a machine with XP and wait, buy a machine with Vista and wait, or buy a machine and install an RC version of Win7 and wait.

Regarding your budget, I think that you might have some more affordable options if you are open to looking at machines being sold outside of the normal retail channel. Dell, HP and Lenovo, to name a few, directly sell laptops that are new (usually overstock) or refurbished at quite good prices. Its something to consider. I cannot comment on the CPU because it seems like Intel releases a new CPU every other minute and there there seems to be little logic to their naming relative to performance. Let us know what you decide. I am looking to upgrade my laptop as well.

--Ken


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## clee01l (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

I like the Win machine that has the 4GB RAM. If you go the Mac route, you should really bump it up to 4GB. With LR, you really can not have too much RAM. It is truly a multi threaded app and takes advantage of the multi core processor. Often I find that LR is sucking up a full 1GB of memory and hovers between 75'Mb abd 1.1GB. This is about 1' times any other application that I might have running concurrently. Also if the decision is to go the Mac route, you will need Parallels or Fusion to not waste any investment that you have in Windows Apps. These work best with 4GB too.

The machine with the larger, faster HD also has an advantage in managing image storage. However with both, you should consider seconday storage for back-up, Either an attached USB device or a networked fileserver. The Blu-Ray drive might come in handy too. 

Since you indicate a preference for a portable computer, you might consider the problem of carrying around all your preciious photos on a hard drive that might be subject to getting lost, stolen or damaged. I archive all my non-current photos off to a network drive. Lightroom does not care where they reside and when you are portable, you probably won't be needing to access them. 

I've been using Vista since it came out and would never consider reverting to XP. If you have never experienced Vista on a multicore computer with 3 or more GB RAM, you probably never saw Vista at it's optimum. I have been very happy with Vista and have never experienced any of the negatives touted by the media.  I think Win7 will be available in Sept/Oct. and should really remove any reservations anyone has about a Microsoft OS.


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## Denis Pagé (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

Simple clarification: Parallels or Fusion are only needed to run Windows if Windows programs are to be run at same time as the Mac programs and compatibility with all programs is not 1''%. Otherwise, Boot Camp which come free with Mac OS offer the choice to start in either OS altough not both at once and compatibility is 1''%.


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

 Thanks all for the good replies thus far. 

Replytoken: Good information. Lots of waiting  As for other options, although the mac I quoted came from apple's refurb area (and unfortunately might already be gone), the pc would be custom made by a third party computer builder (www.ibuypower.com) that I heard from another message on this or another board somewhere. I like the idea of using this different "brand" company, as they seem to be competitive (unless I'm ignorant to comparison prices). I have shopped Dell before and don't have a problem with it (it's my desktop currently, although old in computer age), if it's quality hardware (not that I know too much about what constitutes quality). I am really trying to be an informed consumer for this purchase and really want to get a good price (I think I waaaay overpaid for lightroom, so I need to make that loss up by being smart about the laptop price). If you have suggested websites, I'm certainly open to researching alternative sources for laptop systems, mac or PC.

Clee- excellent post- I appreciate the details. Based on the specs I posted, I'm under the impression that the macpro DOES have 4GB... am I interpreting the calculations wrong? The language says 4GB (TWO 2GB SO-DIMMS) of 1'66MHz DDR3 SDRAM; supports up to 4 GB, although maybe it's the last part that I'm misinterpreting? 

The pc reads similarly in my eyes: "Memory- 4 GB (2GB x 2) DDR2-8'' PC64'' (notebook memory). 

I'm not worried as much about hard drive space. My intent (which I have begun to institute) is to use the hard drive just for newly ingested files; rate them, keyword them, then move them to an external HD as "originals", then do any other work from that source. I'm also slowly bringing my old photos (many of which are jpg scans of film prints) through the same process - from the hard drive "old collection", to the internal hard drive, then back to another external hard drive as "ORIGINALS". 

I have 4 external drives right now to cover my archives and backups of both working files and archives. Also, I currently have less than 1'' GB of files, although I do know as I produce more RAW, my space needs will increase exponentially...
As for OS, I don't like the idea of Vista, but I'll put up with it until Win7 comes out, if I choose to go the pc laptop route. With the Mac I'm totally new, so it doesn't matter much what OS version will be on there. I'll be learning mostly from a beginner's standpoint.

Denis- Parellels or Fusion were the programs I was thinking of, but now I'm not sure what they do exactly. I thought these programs allowed you to run windows programs WITHOUT having Windows installed. What you seem to be saying is that whether I use boot camp (this is a new term for me) or Parellels or Fusion, I will need to have a copy of some version of WIN OS?? Oooff.. that could be expensive, and might prohibit me from going the Mac route. Clarification/education would be much appreciated.


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## clee01l (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

[quote author=NJHeart2Heart link=topic=718'.msg4887'#msg4887' date=1247256871].., I'm under the impression that the macpro DOES have 4GB...
[/quote] Sorry, my math is rusty. (2x 2GB SO-DIMMS ...) does equal 4GB. You should be fine.





> Parellels or Fusion were the programs I was thinking of, but now I'm not sure what they do exactly. I thought these programs allowed you to run windows programs WITHOUT having Windows installed. What you seem to be saying is that whether I use boot camp (this is a new term for me) or Parellels or Fusion, I will need to have a copy of some version of WIN OS?? Oooff.. that could be expensive, and might prohibit me from going the Mac route. Clarification/education would be much appreciated.


You are confusing the Mac OS with Linux and WINE. Parallels and Fusion are a virtual machine that sits on top of OSX. They form a virtual environment that seamlessly passes the Windows OS hardware instructions through OSX to the hardware. AFAIK they only run XP, not Vista. If you have a standalone license for XP (Not an OEM license) you can install that. Otherwise you need to buy a legal license. Dual boot is not the best of solutions if you work continuously in both environments. It can be a PIA to do something simple like check you email in one environment while working in another. It is for this reason that I keep a LINUX desktop when I could dual boot into LINUX from my primary computer. For that matter, If your primary reason for an new OS is to run 'industrial strength' applications like Lightroom, Get the OSX box and keep your WinXP box around for the legacy Apps. When you need or want an upgrade on the Legacy app, buy the Mac equivalent and gradually wean yourself off the Win XP box.


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 11, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

Cletus,
Thanks for the information. the makers of the 2 WIN apps i use will not be creating mac versions anytime soon, and since i have a long history w/ both programs, so weaning myself off of them is not feasible. although i would not have any need to run them at the same time as LR2, i'm thinking that a pc/win machine might be a better choice at this point. a shame because i was really "revving" up to possibly become a mac user


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## Replytoken (Jul 11, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

[quote author=NJHeart2Heart link=topic=718'.msg4887'#msg4887' date=1247256871]
Replytoken: Good information. Lots of waiting  As for other options, although the mac I quoted came from apple's refurb area (and unfortunately might already be gone), the pc would be custom made by a third party computer builder (www.ibuypower.com) that I heard from another message on this or another board somewhere. I like the idea of using this different "brand" company, as they seem to be competitive (unless I'm ignorant to comparison prices). I have shopped Dell before and don't have a problem with it (it's my desktop currently, although old in computer age), if it's quality hardware (not that I know too much about what constitutes quality). I am really trying to be an informed consumer for this purchase and really want to get a good price (I think I waaaay overpaid for lightroom, so I need to make that loss up by being smart about the laptop price). If you have suggested websites, I'm certainly open to researching alternative sources for laptop systems, mac or PC.
[/quote]

I like Lenovo laptops, and they just overhauled their outlet so it is much easier to search their inventory. I would suggest looking at what they have to offer, even if for comparison purposes only.

--Ken


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 11, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

thanks ken. will do so now!


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## breyman (Jul 11, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

I'd second Lenovo - I've had good experience with their durability. I have an HP laptop and like it, but don't use it as my primary machine (I use it when traveling, sitting on the couch, giving presentations, etc.). Honestly, its quality doesn't near that of the Mac (although IMO, I get more bang for the buck out of a PC). I purchased my desktop PC from iBuyPower and would highly recommend them.

As far as Vista is concerned, it isn't quite as bad as everyone wants to report. It takes a bit of getting used to from XP (there are some differences), but I agree with Cletus that Vista w/ 4GB+ of RAM far outweighs any potential downsides of moving from XP. Plus, with Win 7 so close, even if you don't fall in love with it, you'll be able to move on soon.


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 12, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

Thanks Brian, for the reply. I wonder if it was from one of your previous posts that I found ibuypower :icon_idea:  If you had to buy a laptop today, do you think you'd go for an ibuypower machine, or a lenovo? I found a nice looking Lenovo:
                 ThinkPad W5'' (Refurbished)               List Price:         $2,369.'' | Outlet Price:         $1,'86.''       			                  Quick Overview         ThinkPad W5'' gives you superior, performance, power management, and multiple wireless connectivity options in a truly flexible mobile workstation.                                  //               
ProcessorIntel® Core™2 Duo T96'' (2.8' GHz, 6MB L2, 8'' MHz FSB)Operating SystemGenuine Windows Vista Business 32Outlet Part Number4'5L3A1''9ConditionRefurbishedDisplay15.'” WSXGA+ (168' X 1'5') TFT, Flexview Display w/ Wide Viewing AngleTotal Memory4GB (2 X 2GB) PC3-85'' DDR3 SDRAM 1'67MHz SODIMM MemoryHard Drive2''GB, 72''RPM Serial ATA Drive, Disk EncryptionGraphicsAMD M86GL Switchable Graphics 512MBOptical DeviceDVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer Ultrabay SlimWirelessIntel WiFi Link 53'' (3x3 AGN)Mobile BroadbandN/ABattery6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (6.5 Hour Run Time)Limited Warranty1 YearColorBlackBluetoothYesKeyboard/Pointing DeviceUltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)Manufacturing part number4'58CTRL3A1''9


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## breyman (Jul 12, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

Sure thing NJHeart2Heart.

It's a tough call really. If it were me, I'd probably go with the Lenovo, but it's a bit of a toss up either way. 

Out of curiosity, is there a reason you want a new laptop over a desktop? I find that portability is nice, but I much prefer the power. If you already have a monitor, you can get a screamin' PC for about the same cost as the laptop. I spent about $12'' on my iBuyPower machine and got an i7 processor (which is ridiculously fast), 12GB RAM, a nice case, a decent video card. 

So, if you have a specific need for the laptop, a Lenovo should treat you pretty well (as would a number of other choices, really). But, if you'll end up working on the laptop on the desk of your home office more often than not, I'd recommend at least looking into a desktop.

Good luck - either way you'll be getting a big speed upgrade which will make a huge difference in editing speed.


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## frenchy (Jul 12, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

new MacBook Pro 2.8 all the way, come on, no question about it...


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## pknoot (Jul 12, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

I think Brian brings up a critical point here: do you absolutely have to have a laptop for photo work? For your budget you could get a desktop solution that far outperforms any of the laptops mentioned here. You could keep your old laptop for occasional "field" work and do your serious photo editing on a faster and better machine. Keep in mind that no laptop display will match the color performance of a good desktop LCD, something you should consider seriously if you're printing your photos.

I use both systems, with the laptop only for initial field acquisition and sorting. I upgraded from a Fujitsu laptop with decent performance to a MacBook Pro with great performance. Neither is as good as my (custom-built) desktop PC that is used for the editing and printing work. You can't really buy a MBP for your budget, but you can get a desktop PC!

Having said all that, I far prefer the MBP over my old Win PC; just the Firewire 8'' alone has sped up my workflow dramatically. I second the need for 4GB (go 8GB on the 17"), fast external file storage and PS scratch disk (eSATA or FW8''). The glossy screen is very controversial, to say the least. In either case, these are not in your budget, so if you _must_ have a laptop you should look for a Win solution.


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## clee01l (Jul 12, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

[quote author=pknoot link=topic=718'.msg48988#msg48988 date=1247413191]
I think Brian brings up a critical point here: do you absolutely have to have a laptop for photo work? [/quote]For some, (me for one) a laptop is necessary and a second desktop computer is an added expense. It is also an inconvenience when keeping important, needed files/email where you next want to use them. Not having to Sync one computer with the other is a benefit too.  My solution was to buy a powerful HP tablet notebook with dual core and lots of memory and designed with the graphics to run as a Windows media center. I also have a 26" monitor and separate keyboard. With is I have a dual monitor capability. I have never felt limited by the notebook. If I did not keep a old minitower around to run LINUX, there would be a lot of freed real estate that I could clutter with other things.


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 13, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

Frenchy,
Love your enthusiasm, BUT....
How much do those cost, and how much MORE to run my legacy WIN apps (see rest of the conversation above), on it? My budget is stretched at $13'' already...

Brian,
You have an excellent point that no one else asked. However, the problem is my current desktop resides in a non-environment controlled attic (HOT in summer COOOLD in winter), and the only other place to put a desktop would be in a small spare room that holds a litter box (pretty dusty- and would need to reroute my network wires, which would take some effort/time from my brother, who already has to "babysit" me when it comes to electronics).

Plus, we do visit my out of state parents and even in-state inlaws, and often I want to bring my computer with me, so it makes sense to just upgrade the laptop at this stage in our lives.

Dawn


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 13, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

Peter,
Thanks for chiming in on the conversation. I appreciate the various viewpoints. See above for the laptop vs. desktop debate. To all, here are a few lifestyle points that may "bias" replies to my questions:
I am a HOBBYIST photographer who is JUST starting to shoot RAW only, and doesn't like to do a lot of post-processing. My biggest reason for going with LR2 ( I had ACDSEE pro, which also does RAW editing), was because of my desire to be DAM compliant (a la Peter Krogh) which includes the use of a true cataloging software. I also like the all-in one package of LR2 (again, don't want to waste time moving files from one program to anothe for metadata, vs. editing).
As for the color benefits of a desktop with monitor, I do currently have a decent (to me- don't know how it compares to typical LCD screens) monitor which I have successfully hooked up to my laptop, though I haven't tried the dual window workflow yet.
I want good quality color in a laptop, but professional level color management is not critical to my needs. More important to me is a fast, efficient workflow that will allow me to first of all, thoroughly manage/organize my photos, do basic edits, and export jpgs for processing and "flickering" with as little processing pain as possible. 
My current laptop was supposed to be MY gift 2 years ago. My husband and I enjoy sitting together doing our own thing in the livingroom (we have small house with no space for a comfortable "computer corner" in livingroom), but once my husband got wind that he could be on the internet while watching TV, it has gotten to the point where he and I are constantly vying for it's use at night. I NEED my OWN DEDICATED laptop that I can use for my photo work, while my husband can just "cruise" the internet for leisure. We both use our desktop occasionally for when we need to print stuff, and perhaps we'll upgrade that as well, but that will be a joint decision down the line. This Laptop will be MINE! (Have I emphasized the MINE enough? hehehe).

Thanks for listening and for keep the comments coming. At this point I think my decision has now become WHICH WIN machine to buy rather than Mac vs. WIN. It seems clear that for my budget and needs right now a WIN machine will best serve my purposes...

So, any other opinions on what a buyer can get in a laptop for around $13'' ?


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 13, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

Clee- Yes, I agree totally with you regarding the benefits of the laptop. There's one big difference between you and me though. You clearly had a much larger budget then I did for that purpose. So, although I am still totally bent on a laptop, I recognize that I'm getting someething perhaps less powerful vs. the power I can get out of a desktop for the same budget.
Dawn


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## clee01l (Jul 13, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

[quote author=NJHeart2Heart link=topic=718'.msg49'3'#msg49'3' date=1247495956]
Clee- Yes, I agree totally with you regarding the benefits of the laptop. There's one big difference between you and me though. You clearly had a much larger budget then I did for that purpose. So, although I am still totally bent on a laptop, I recognize that I'm getting someething perhaps less powerful vs. the power I can get out of a desktop for the same budget.
Dawn
[/quote]Amazon has HP Laptops similar to mine for Less than $9''USD. The screen is not huge, but if you already have a monitor, this is not an issue. For another $4''-5'' you can add a 24-26" monitor and you are still less than either of your first two quotes.
http://www.amazon.com/Touchsmart-tx...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1247496648&sr=8-12


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 13, 2009)

*Re: Laptop comparisons - PC vs. Mac and overal specs?*

Thanks Clee. I like that, but I do want a larger screen to start, since the monitor is in the inhospitable attic, which means I won't want to deal with it unless absolutely necessary for some critical comparison work. Here's what I'm looking at now, and seriously considering grabbing it. In fact emailing my brother now for his opinion:


ProcessorIntel® Core™2 Duo T96'' (2.8' GHz, 6MB L2, 1'66 MHz FSB)Operating SystemGenuine Windows Vista Business 32Outlet Part Number2'8L3B57'3ConditionRefurbishedDisplay15.4” WSXGA+ (168' X 1'5') TFTTotal Memory4GB (2 X 2GB) PC3-85'' DDR3 SDRAM 1'67MHz SODIMM MemoryHard Drive32'GB, 54''RPM Serial ATA 2.5" DriveGraphicsAMD M86M Switchable Graphics 256MBIntegrated CameraNoOptical DeviceDVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer Ultrabay SlimWirelessIntel WiFi Link 53'' (3x3 AGN)Mobile BroadbandN/ABattery9 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (6.' Hour Run Time)Limited Warranty1 YearColorBlackBluetoothYesFingerprint ReaderNoKeyboard/Pointing DeviceUltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)
The only thing I don't like is that my bro. said to get a nvidia graphics card..... It also doesn't state what ports are included (I would prefer to have at leat 3 usb and a firewire 8'' based on bro's recommendation)


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 13, 2009)

Well that one's now out, because bro insists I need nvidia card  and firewire, neither of which this has. Found another site though (www.powernotebooks.com) that has promise in their "PowerPro P 15:2". Consistently high customer ratings too (winds up ibuypowers ratings are all over the board- from "love them" to "hate HATE them").
Dawn


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## Replytoken (Jul 13, 2009)

[quote author=NJHeart2Heart link=topic=718'.msg49'4'#msg49'4' date=12475'1771]
The only thing I don't like is that my bro. said to get a nvidia graphics card..... It also doesn't state what ports are included (I would prefer to have at leat 3 usb and a firewire 8'' based on bro's recommendation)
[/quote]

Given the prior problems with nVidia drivers and LR, I am not too certain about his recommendation, unless you have a specific need beyond LR. If you truly want a budget buster, consider Lenovo's G53' for $6''. 3GB of RAM and a T64'' processor. No, its not as fast as other machines you are considering, but it will leave you with a lot of funds in the bank. Something to consider.

--Ken


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## breyman (Jul 13, 2009)

Thanks for the expanding on the reasoning for a laptop. It does sound like that is the best way for you to go.

Any reason you're brother is pushing for nVidia? It's definatley not a bad brand, but isn't necessarily what you need, based on your description. Lightroom doesn't (currently) take advantage of a video card as much as it does processor/lots of RAM.

Speaking of that, if you get 4GB+ of RAM, make sure it has 64-bit Vista. That will take full advantage of the RAM (32-bit Vista can only address about 3GB of RAM, so if it comes with more, it will be largely unused).

Other than the 64-bit piece, I'd say the laptop you spec'd above would fit you perfectly.

Just for fun, I thought I'd include another option:
I mentioned my HP earlier... and while I wish it 'felt' a little sturdier, it comes close to what you described needing and comes in well under budget.
Here is a link to one that is very similar (my current model isn't being sold any more). As it happens, it even comes with an nVidia card. It also includes an eSata port, which as long as you get a compatible external hard drive, is just as fast as FireWire. (maybe even faster, I believe, but don't quote me on that). The one downside is that its screen resolution is a little lower, which could be a deal breaker.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9'27714&st=hp+laptop&type=product&id=1218'1'176167

Again, most of what you've already mentioned and listed will suit you well. I'd recommend identifying your must haves (screen res, RAM, etc.) and pick the brand you're most comfortable with.


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## clee01l (Jul 14, 2009)

[quote author=breyman link=topic=718'.msg49'55#msg49'55 date=12475222'4]Speaking of that, if you get 4GB+ of RAM, make sure it has 64-bit Vista. That will take full advantage of the RAM (32-bit Vista can only address about 3GB of RAM, so if it comes with more, it will be largely unused).[/quote] The 3GB limitation of 32bit Vista was removed with SP1. If you will note that most 32 Vista computers sold today come with a minimum of 4GB.


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## breyman (Jul 14, 2009)

[quote author=clee'1l link=topic=718'.msg49'63#msg49'63 date=1247528172]
limitation of 32bit Vista was removed with SP1. If you will note that most 32 Vista computers sold today come with a minimum of 4GB. 
[/quote]

Good call about it showing in SP1, I neglected to state that. It (SP1) does report on the installed amount of RAM (in this case 4GB). SP1 doesn't allow it, though, to use more than the 3GB (technically 3.25 GB). It's a display/reporting change only.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946''3/

Luckily when Windows 7 comes out, choosing between 32-bit and 64-bit will be much easier. Both versions will ship together on the distribution DVDs and you can more easily choose which to install. It's a pain today.

Which reminds me:
Dawn, many retailers are giving certificates (or guarantees) of a free upgrade to Windows 7 if the PC is purchased after a certian date (I'm not sure the exact date). It's something probably worth looking in to.


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 14, 2009)

Good morning all,
Great comments from all sides. You all have been great at helping me to clarify what I really need, help me understand what Lightroom needs, and explore the alternatives. 
I did know about the 64 bit version issue, but thanks for the heads up. I had a discussion with my brother last night, and I'm again looking at Macs. My brother is very good at debating, and his point was just to be sure when I'm looking at mac vs. win to make sure I'm looking at apples to apples. It is true that although some windows machines scream "coolness", there were small but important things that I was overlooking.

Breyman- thanks for looking that HP up for me- However, it's a 13" screen, and slower processor. Two of my priorities are that I want a 15" screen size. It seems 15" is the best compromise between size and budget, plus from what I've been reading, the 17" screens have not been improving quality much up to now. My current screen is a 13", so 15" will still be a nice upgrade. Also, and please correct me if I'm wrong Lightroom gurus, processor speed seems to be very important to making LR run smoothly +the more RAM the better, so that is what my focus is on. I'm not sure what to make of the nvidia debate- bro says go nvidia, (but that if I go other, Intel seems the better), but he also says that he defers to Lightroom users, since that's going to be my primary application. I don't do any moving video at all, nor do I do any games, so not sure...

So, is my idea accurate- that when shopping for a Lightroom laptop, the priorities (aside from screen size) are generally, a fast processor and lots of RAM?

Dawn


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## Denis Pagé (Jul 14, 2009)

Yes! Processor and RAM first. Disk I/O speed next. But you work with images and a good screen is a big plus for Lightroom work. Some Lightroom bugs on Windows not present on Mac OS actually, some on Windows 64 and not on Windows 32 as for disk burning. On Windows, you install either Lightroom 64 or Lightroom 32 or both; On Mac OS you install Lightroom and can switch from 32 to 64 at will with a simple checkbox. For example, I work Lighrtoom 64 generally but switch it to 32 for printing (Mac). The number of keywords you can see on Windows is limited by Windows not on Mac OS.

Lightroom for Windows still work fine for many. I am just looking at some glitches thinking I made the good choice switching from Windows to Mac.

Not debating which is best as I still use Windows, Mac and now Linux


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 14, 2009)

Denis,
Ahh.. I see I pulled you back in :fi_lone_ranger: 
I told my brother... "There's a part of me that just really WANTS to go Mac".. I guess because I've never been there, and most who use it really do rave about it. I have nothing personal against Windows.. I have never had any really BAAD experiences with them, so I'm really going on the relative merits vs. pitfalls of one vs. the other. 

He helped me to also see that running my windows programs is NOT so expensive.. that I can get the RC version of Win7 and use that at least until March. I could install that on the Mac, and either do everything through win or switch os when needed (again I don't anticipate needing to run both win programs and mac programs simultaneously. If I'm working photography, I'm doing photography- I'm not going to be focusing on my genealogy or my journaling [the two windows programs I need to bring forward into my laptop future].)

Anyway... My bro also strongly suggested I be patient and wait a little while. Even in a few weeks, with school upgrades coming around, I will probably find more refurbs entering the store, which might reduce my price a bit (the mac pro refurb that seems best for me right now is at $1699, at least $4'' more than my budget can possibly bear and $13'' was already pushing it).

Not a bad idea, since I've barely begun to use LR, and can get away just fine with my current laptop for now, while I concentrate on organizing my existing photos and adding metadata (no big processing tasks yet, although my Raw photo collection is growing every weekend!).

Dawn


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## Denis Pagé (Jul 14, 2009)

Sleep on it then...


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 14, 2009)

You would get along well with my brother. He is also a multi OS user, including Linux  

For example, I work Lighrtoom 64 generally but switch it to 32 for printing (Mac). The number of keywords you can see on Windows is limited by Windows not on Mac OS.

Why do you switch to 32 bit for printing?


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## Denis Pagé (Jul 14, 2009)

[quote author=NJHeart2Heart link=topic=718'.msg49121#msg49121 date=1247583888]
...Why do you switch to 32 bit for printing?
[/quote]
Printer driver limitation under 64 bits for my older printer.


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 14, 2009)

Ah.. I see. Thanks for the answer!
Dawn


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## Replytoken (Jul 14, 2009)

You need to be careful when choosing a laptop screen. First, you need to understand that none are going to give you an image like a monitor with an IPS panel. And, know that many laptops are really 6-bit panels that dither the last two bits (i.e. they are not true 8-bit panels). Haiving said that, you need to consider more than just size. Resolution, finish (glossy or matte) and backlighitng (CCFL or LED) are also important. Personally, I find glossy panels a pain to live with. They may look nice, but I cannot stand the high levels of reflection.

And, as Dennis mentioned, try and get a fast hard drive. If you want speed, then 72'' RPM is the way to go. Otherwise, your drive could potentially end up being your bottleneck.

Good luck,

--Ken


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 14, 2009)

Hey Ken,
Thanks for replying. Currently my laptop of choice (changes day by day) has a 15.4 144'x9'' screen, which seems a good resolution. I agree with you about the glossy screen, although I might need to compromise on that one. Yes, I know hard drive speed is good too, although I'll still be working with some usb 2.' drives that I got relatively recently so I'm used and willing wait on that. Would rather wait on that, since often I'll set the computer to to copy and then walk away until it's done. The repetitious stuff is easier- it's actions like editing on the fly that I am concerned most with. I know with my budge I HAVE to sacrifie somewhere. Hopefully as time goes by some deals show up that are within my range and are close to what I need/want. I am going to wait on a purchase for a little while (at least a couple weeks) and see if something shows up (unless I see a screamin' deal tomorrow!  ).

I'm learning an amazing amount of information on the way though and appreciate your input as well as everyone else's.

Dawn


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## sizzlingbadger (Jul 15, 2009)

I have just taken delivery of a brand new 13" MacBook Pro 2.53Ghz / 4GB Ram and it runs LR beautifully. The screen is very good despite being glossy and it calibrated nicely with my Spyder Express. CS4 also runs well so I'm a very happy bunny as I've waited years for 13" version with firewire etc... I've been eyeing it up since Apple released the details, my wife was not happy about spending the cash when I mentioned it but luckily her old XP Laptop died so I bought *her* a present


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 15, 2009)

Badger-
Ha! :icon_mrgreen: That's great! I'm sure your wife "LOVES" it   I appreciate the input, as it's good to hear how LR runs practically on some of these setups. I think I'm going to splurge way over the top.. I saw a 15" 2.8 ghz machine in the refurb section of the Apple store. It's gone now, but I'm biding my time in hopes with the school season coming, there will be an influx of Mac pros. There are a couple 2.66s, but since I'm not in a "need to get it" rush, (but rather "I WANT it I WANT IT!" attitude), I'm going to sit on my hands for a bit and see what shows up. My trusty bro can set me up with extra ram/HD capacity as needed, so I'm just waiting for the right processor speed to show up.


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## sizzlingbadger (Jul 15, 2009)

I shall only get custody at the weekends but that is good enough for me !


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 16, 2009)

Ha! Are you going to be able to stay away from it during the week?? I know as soon as I got my current laptop (it was a gift for ME), and once my husband got wind that it had a wireless internet connection (previously, internet could only be found on the desktop in the inhospitable attic ) I began competing with my husband for time on it at night!  :icon_frown:  That's a big reason I'm looking forward to adding a second laptop to the mix- and if I use the Mac OS I'll probably get a bonus because hubby doesn't know mac and probably doesn't care to mess with something new :fi_lone_ranger:


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## Denis Pagé (Jul 16, 2009)

HeHe! :icon_twisted:


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## sizzlingbadger (Jul 17, 2009)

It could be a struggle.. wifey loves Mac and hates XP but it will free up the iMac in the evenings now so that is a bonus


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 27, 2009)

A great big thanks to all who contributed to this interesting and personally very helpful discussion. I am now the proud soon-to-be owner of a MacPro refurb: 15.4"display/2.8ghz/4gb ram/1'66/32'GB HD/Nvidia graphics. I am looking forward to a significant improvement in LR performance and also to the fun of learning a new system  

Now my only hurdle is to break the news of how much I'm paying for this to my husband! (he just doesn't understand hardware-ese and good comparison shopping!)

Dawn in NJ


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## sizzlingbadger (Jul 28, 2009)

I'm sure you'll love it... my 13" Mac Book Pro has been great so far...........


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 28, 2009)

Thanks Badger :icon_mrgreen:  :icon_mrgreen:


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## NJHeart2Heart (Jul 31, 2009)

My baby is almost here!!!! It could arrive at my workplace as early as tomorrow (in which case I guess I might wind up driving to work on a Saturday!!).


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## johnj2803 (Jul 31, 2009)

your thread was really informative. It's good that you chose the mac  thank you for starting this thread! 

I have always believed that hardwares are only as good as their softwares


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## NJHeart2Heart (Aug 13, 2009)

I'm glad it was helpful / informative to you John.   It's a bit of a learning curve. I REALLY miss the right-click and move feature from Windows, but I'm hoping I'll learn other shortcuts that will make up for that loss!
Dawn in NJ


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## Victoria Bampton (Aug 13, 2009)

Right click and move Dawn? Explain more?


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