# Photo loosing sharpness when passing it to Photoshop



## GarfieldKlon (Feb 9, 2015)

Hi 

I passed a JPG from LR to Photoshop, did a little change and saved it. Then I realized, that the PSD file has lost some sharpness compared to the original JPG.
It doesn't matter if I pass it with the option "with lightroom changes" or not. It happens in both cases that use a copy.

That's really weird and frustrating.

But, I found out that this only the case if I view the photo in LR   (In Phothoshop and Irfanview all version of the photo looks the same regarding the sharpness)

A very ugly bug in LR 5.7?

edit:
The difference get smaller after viewing both photos in 1:1. But still, there is a difference viewable when switching between exactly the same images (just passed it for test purpose to Photoshop as copy, and saved it as JPG, no editing in PS).


Regards
Garfield


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## Modesto Vega (Feb 10, 2015)

GarfieldKlon said:


> Hi
> 
> I passed a JPG from LR to Photoshop, did a little change and saved it. Then I realized, that the PSD file has lost some sharpness compared to the original JPG.
> It doesn't matter if I pass it with the option "with lightroom changes" or not. It happens in both cases that use a copy.
> ...


When you edited the file in Photoshop, which profile did you choose? Is there a profile embedded into the JPG file? If I configure my camera to shoot JPG, which I never do, I can select one of 2 colour spaces Adobe RGB and sRGB.


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## GarfieldKlon (Feb 10, 2015)

All in sRGB. Camera shoots in sRGB, and PS CC uses sRGB. Saved with max quality (12). The difference is only viewable in LR, and best in the 'fit to content' mode. In 1:1 it's hard to see it. In 4:1 I see that some pixels differ. But it's really like a loose in sharpness. You can try it yourself if you have PS CC, here is the original file:
http://www.filedropper.com/dsc3956

After you passed it to PS CC and saved it as JPG, the difference is most viewable in the branches left.


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## Modesto Vega (Feb 10, 2015)

Lr's develop module uses ProPhoto RGB as its colour space, or to be more precise Lr's interpretation of ProPhoto RGB. If you have modified the image in the develop module, it is possible that when you pass it to Photoshop using sRGB some of you adjustments might be affected because of the translation between profiles. This is why I prefer to use ProPhoto RGB to communicate between Lr and Photoshop.


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## GarfieldKlon (Feb 11, 2015)

Here are some answers:
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1703450

Hä? If I take my photos in sRGB, LR doesn't change that, right? My monitor can't display ProPhotoRGB. And in PS I'm using sRGB. For me it doesn't make sense to use ProPhoto RGB if my photos were shot in sRGB?


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## Modesto Vega (Feb 11, 2015)

GarfieldKlon said:


> Here are some answers:
> https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1703450
> 
> Hä? If I take my photos in sRGB, LR doesn't change that, right? My monitor can't display ProPhotoRGB. And in PS I'm using sRGB. For me it doesn't make sense to use ProPhoto RGB if my photos were shot in sRGB?


The colour management chain in your case is as follows and there is nothing you can do about it, you cannot control it:

sRGB (Your camera)>ProPhoto RGBs (Lr colour space)>sRGB (Photoshop)

You could be loosing something in translation because you are dealing with JPEGs. From a colour management perspective what you are doing is similar to receiving a message in English, translating it automatically into German (this is what Lr colour management does), and then output into English again.

There is no way to have an unbroken sRGB colour management chain in Lr, at some point ProPhoto RGB plays a role in Lr. Because ProPhoto RGB is a larger colour space it is not impossible for some of the adjustments you have made to be outside of the sRGB colour space which means that Lr could have trouble translating them to sRGB.

P.S.: My monitor cannot display ProPhoto RGB neither but that does not mean I want to loose colours specially if I intend to print the photos on paper capable of rendering the colour my monitor cannot display.


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## GarfieldKlon (Feb 11, 2015)

But it's useless to use ProPhoto RGB in Photoshop if my photo was shot with sRGB. The photo can't get better than sRGB, right?

A NEF image looks the same in LR and if I pass it to Photoshop that uses sRGB. I can pass it and use ProPhoto RGB, but then it also looks exactly the same as in LR. The only difference I can see is when I switch to a different color space in PS, but then it looks a little bit strange.

And it seems that LR uses different color spaces in different places:
https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/help/color-management.html


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## Modesto Vega (Feb 11, 2015)

GarfieldKlon said:


> But it's useless to use ProPhoto RGB in Photoshop if my photo was shot with sRGB. The photo can't get better than sRGB, right?


It depends how do you define "useless".  By editing a photo in Lr first and then in Photoshop you are making the original sRGB photo look better, this is your goal, isn't it?

If you agree with this, the backbone of this process is the colour management chain between Lr and Photoshop because you are using both to enhance your original sRGB photo and both are colour managed. As a result you want a colour management chain that will give you a minimum amount of headaches. Since ProPhoto RGB is the colour space used internally by Lr, it makes sense to use a colour space available to both pieces of software and that colour space is ProPhoto RGB.

Why don't you give it a try? If the problem persists we are looking at a nastier problem.

Just to expand on my translation example, the Inuits have a large number of words to describe snow most of them are untranslatable to european languages. Just imagine those Inuit words for snow represent different tones of white. It is possible that when you adjusted the photo in Lr, Lr generated a tone of white outside sRGB, outside your original photo, but inside ProPhoto RGB; when you passed the photo to Photoshop in sRGB that tone of white created by the Lr adjustment was lost.

The point I am trying to make is that you want to use ProPhoto RGB all the way through your process until you are happy with how the processed photo looks like, once you are happy with it you can worry again about, for instance, outputting it to a website using sRGB.


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## Jim Wilde (Feb 11, 2015)

If you're shooting Raw you need to understand that the file has no colour space until it is converted. The in-camera setting (sRGB or AdobeRGB) applies only to the jpeg file which you see in the camera's LCD. So no, you're not using sRGB....when Lightroom converts the raw file it is rendered into the ProPhoto RGB colour space. So if you are using the "normal" workflow for editing in PSCC (Lightroom first, then Edit in PSCC, saved Tiff/PSD returned to Lightroom, and subsequently exported from Lightroom), the usual practice is to stick with ProPhoto RGB in both Lightroom and PS, exporting to sRGB (for web or screen viewing) when ready.


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## Modesto Vega (Feb 11, 2015)

Jim Wilde said:


> If you're shooting Raw you need to understand that the file has no colour space until it is converted. The in-camera setting (sRGB or AdobeRGB) applies only to the jpeg file which you see in the camera's LCD. So no, you're not using sRGB....when Lightroom converts the raw file it is rendered into the ProPhoto RGB colour space. So if you are using the "normal" workflow for editing in PSCC (Lightroom first, then Edit in PSCC, saved Tiff/PSD returned to Lightroom, and subsequently exported from Lightroom), the usual practice is to stick with ProPhoto RGB in both Lightroom and PS, exporting to sRGB (for web or screen viewing) when ready.


Jim - my understanding is that the OP is shooting JPEG which is perhaps complicating things.


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## Jim Wilde (Feb 11, 2015)

Then why is he talking about a NEF? See post #7.


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## Modesto Vega (Feb 11, 2015)

Jim Wilde said:


> Then why is he talking about a NEF? See post #7.


Please see post #1 first, post #7 is just an attempt by the OP to argue that a ProPhoto RGB based workflow only makes sense when shooting raw and the OP is arguing that because the photos are JPEGs taken with the camera set to sRGB there is no need to use ProPhoto RGB.

What I am trying to explain, probably badly, Lr uses ProPhoto RGB even when processing photos produced as JPEGs by the camera with an sRGB colour space.


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## Jim Wilde (Feb 11, 2015)

Ahh, right! In which case I'll back away and leave you to it!


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## Modesto Vega (Feb 11, 2015)

Jim Wilde said:


> Ahh, right! In which case I'll back away and leave you to it!


Trying to give me a panic attack!! Just kidding!! 

Hopefully you can keep an eye on it and pitch in, if I write something which is incorrect or imprecise.


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## Denis de Gannes (Feb 11, 2015)

Quote "What I am trying to explain, probably badly, Lr uses ProPhoto RGB even  when processing photos produced as JPEGs by the camera with an sRGB  colour space."

Yes this is the true, however you need to understand that Lightroom is designed for processing RAW files produced by digital cameras. This is so by design and it cannot be changed.

That said Lightroom can also work with jpeg files and if those files are in a sRGB color it will be displayed in the ProPhotoRGB working color space, however since the files were rendered by the camera's firmware the colors outside the sRGB color space would have been discarded and not recoverable.

 What you need to ensure is that your Monitor has been properly calibrated and profiled using a hardware device, to enable it to display colors properly.

When you use the edit in function to send the image from Lightroom to PS for further editing then you just need to select the option in the appropriate dialog box to send the image as sRGB.

If you are going to shoot in jpeg mode as opposed to raw I would suggest capturing setting the camera to AdobeRGB, so as to capture the widest color gamut.


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## Modesto Vega (Feb 11, 2015)

Denis de Gannes said:


> however you need to understand that Lightroom is designed for processing RAW files produced by digital cameras. This is so by design and it cannot be changed.


Perhaps, the Op needs to understand this, I don't. I shoot RAW and use ProPhoto RGB.


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