# Why Not Focus Stacking in LR



## BobT

Firmware Version 4.0 for the Olympus E-M1 has just come out with in-camera focus stacking.  Actually this is limited to a maximum 8 shot focus bracket.  However, if one is happy to do the focus stacking in PP, the camera will do up to a 99 shot focus bracket.  No it is not a typo, I mean 99 as in 1 less than a hundred.  Photoshop and a myriad other third party apps will stack the shots or so I'm told.  So, isn't it time to have focus stacking in LR?  I really don't want to have to stuff around with two photographic apps.  So let's make a noise to get focus stacking into LR proper!

Regards,

Bob


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## Ian.B

maybe in LR7 or 8 Bob . Thanks for reminding me, I should  do the em1 V4 update myself


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## Dave Miller

I rather think that it's Adobe that you should be suggesting this too.


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## Victoria Bampton

I'd bet the majority of Lightroom users have never even heard of focus stacking, which is likely why it's not in there yet.  I can't find a feature request for it, so you might like to add one at Official Feature Request/Bug Report Forum


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## clee01l

Have you tried Panorama Merge or HDR Merge for focus stacking?  Both are essential the same process as a focus stack. I've tried one or the other to see if they could focus stack, but I can't remember the outcome.

You will need to be on LR6 to use this functionality.


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## Johan Elzenga

clee01l said:


> Have you tried Panorama Merge or HDR Merge for focus stacking?  Both are essential the same process as a focus stack. I've tried one or the other to see if they could focus stack, but I can't remember the outcome.
> 
> You will need to be on LR6 to use this functionality.



I doubt very much that this will work. In a focus stack, the sharp pixels of each image must be used by means of masking. Although HDR or panorama involve stacking of images, the subsequent masking doesn't work that way.


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## BobT

Victoria Bampton said:


> I'd bet the majority of Lightroom users have never even heard of focus stacking, which is likely why it's not in there yet.  I can't find a feature request for it, so you might like to add one at Official Feature Request/Bug Report Forum


Victoria,
Thanks for reminding me.  I did just that.

PS:  Correction to my first post, while Olympus provides in-camera focus stacking for up to 8 shots and focus bracketing for up to 99 shots, it unfortunately does not provide software for stacking in PP.  Bummer!   I've amended the post accordingly.


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## Cerianthus

The Enfuse plugin has also focus stacking possibility. http://www.photographers-toolbox.com/products/lrenfuse.php


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## BobT

With the in-camera focus stacking, it would be useful if the Exif data clearly showed which photos were the stacked photos and which was the resulting composite. A quick look at the detailed Exif using Jeffrey Friedl's viewer indicated that the required data may well be there but it was not immediately obvious, to me at least.  I'll put in a feature request.


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## Dave Miller

I came across this article on the Manfrotto website on how to increase depth of field AKA focus stacking, and wondered if the method was of interest and could be adapted for use from within Lightroom.

http://www.manfrottoschoolofxcellence.com/2013/12/how-to-increase-depth-of-field-in-post-production/


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## clee01l

Dave Miller said:


> I came across this article on the Manfrotto website on how to increase depth of field AKA focus stacking, and wondered if the method was of interest and could be adapted for use from within Lightroom.
> 
> http://www.manfrottoschoolofxcellence.com/2013/12/how-to-increase-depth-of-field-in-post-production/


This article describes Focus Stacking using Photoshop and layers. If Adobe chose to include the method in a future version of LR it would be the same. 
I've tried the PSCC method, the Helicon Focus app and the ZereneStacker app. The dedicated apps work best.


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## Johan Elzenga

I agree that there is nothing that stops Adobe from offering this in a future Lightroom update. Whether it would be the same as in Photoshop remains to be seen, however. Lightroom's HDR is also different from Photoshop HDR Pro (but similar to the same function in the corresponding version of ACR), so a Lightroom Focus Stack option may also be different from how it can be done in Photoshop right now. In fact I think it would indeed be different, because in Photoshop the end result is still layered and Lightroom doesn't support layers. In Lightroom it would most likely be a single layer 'Focus Stack DNG'.


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## johnbeardy

JohanElzenga said:


> In fact I think it would indeed be different, because in Photoshop the end result is still layered and Lightroom doesn't support layers. In Lightroom it would most likely be a single layer 'Focus Stack DNG'.



That would seem a very natural extension of the Photo Merge feature, though I suspect focus stacking will only appeal to a very small niche of users.

John


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## Johan Elzenga

Agreed. Because it would be such a niche function, I doubt that Adobe will want to spend a lot of time on this. If it can be done easily then they may do it, otherwise they probably won't.


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## johnbeardy

My fear is that because it seems such a logical extension they might do it even if it requires a little more effort 

John


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## clee01l

JohanElzenga said:


> Agreed. Because it would be such a niche function, I doubt that Adobe will want to spend a lot of time on this. If it can be done easily then they may do it, otherwise they probably won't.


They have already create the stacking module for PSCC. All that is needed is to create the LR interface to include the code.  The biggest difference between LR and PSCC HDR is choice.  Most of the HDR options in LR are pre-selected and not a user option. There are more options in PSCC. I think this is because Adobe is targeting the LR functionality toward a less sophisticated audience.


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## Johan Elzenga

clee01l said:


> They have already create the stacking module for PSCC. All that is needed is to create the LR interface to include the code.  The biggest difference between LR and PSCC HDR is choice.  Most of the HDR options in LR are pre-selected and not a user option. There are more options in PSCC. I think this is because Adobe is targeting the LR functionality toward a less sophisticated audience.



I'm not so sure about that. Yes, they have the algorithms in Photoshop already. But Photoshop is not Lightroom. Photoshop works with layered RGB files in this case. Lightroom doesn't support layers and Lightroom works with raw files. That makes it quite different. It's definitely not a matter of interface only. HDR in Lightroom is not the same code as HDR Pro in Photoshop minus some interface options. Even the bit depth is different (32 bits in Photoshop vs 16 bits in Lightroom). So no, I don't think that a focus stack option in Lightroom is simply a matter of adding some existing Photoshop code to Lightroom.


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## clee01l

JohanElzenga said:


> ... HDR in Lightroom is not the same code as HDR Pro in Photoshop minus some interface options. Even the bit depth is different (32 bits in Photoshop vs 16 bits in Lightroom). So no, I don't think that a focus stack option in Lightroom is simply a matter of adding some existing Photoshop code to Lightroom.


Photo Merge uses layers in both LR & PSCC. LR supports layered files, it just won't create them as an export. You may be right about HDR & 32bit but Panorama uses the same functionality in both apps.  Focus Stacking is very similar to panorama in execution.


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## Johan Elzenga

Well, let's just agree that we disagree. It's pointless discussing code we both do not know and trying to draw conclusions based on that.


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## clee01l

JohanElzenga said:


> Well, let's just agree that we disagree. It's pointless discussing code we both do not know and trying to draw conclusions based on that.


Perhaps you are correct here.


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## Johan Elzenga

I just noticed that Helicon Focus now also offers focus stacking to DNG...


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## Jos0164

+1 for the LR/Enfuse plugin. It does HDR and focus stacking. Donationware and you can try it before you buy although in that case it's limited in it's output.


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## Ian.B

maybe adobe/lr will encourage someone to make a plug-in.
Off the forums topic and on the EM1 focus stacking. I thought it will be greatest thing ever; but I still haven't really used it lol. But it [+focus pecking] was a good talking point yesterday when I was comparing _my_ em1 to someone's Canon 5D111. That someone had just bought my canon 70-200 lens I reckon I could have sold the em1 also .
Will be going back there to help sort out the 2-3 tb of [Lightroom] photos  ; so expect some questions


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## davidedric

Personally, I would prefer Adobe concentrate on enhancing and improving "core" photographic functions, and leave specialist tools to third parties (speaking as someone who has just bought a year's worth of Helicon Focus).

Although I hope Adobe's software design is appropriate, the more they add, the bigger the product, the more demanding the testing, ando so on.  "Function creep" can be a problem in any product.

Incidentally, I quite like the Helicon licence model.  As well as the usual 30 day trial and perpetual (!) licence, they offer a one-year licence at modest cost of $30 as opposed to $115 for the full licence.  That allows me to take a year to find out if I will actually use it.

Dave


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## Johan Elzenga

I agree. There are lots of bugs (sorry: 'features') that Adobe should address, rather than adding yet another function that few people actually use. The Creative Cloud model allows this better than the perpetual license model: people will only pay for the next perpetual version if there is something that seems worth paying for. I'm not optimistic, though. It's not only the need for new features for users to justify paying, it's also nicer to work on 'the next great thing' than to correct some odd behavior that has been in Lightroom since day one. That is why features are constantly added, while many bugs are still not addressed.


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## BobT

Firmware Version 4.0 for the Olympus E-M1 has just come out with in-camera focus stacking.  Actually this is limited to a maximum 8 shot focus bracket.  However, if one is happy to do the focus stacking in PP, the camera will do up to a 99 shot focus bracket.  No it is not a typo, I mean 99 as in 1 less than a hundred.  Photoshop and a myriad other third party apps will stack the shots or so I'm told.  So, isn't it time to have focus stacking in LR?  I really don't want to have to stuff around with two photographic apps.  So let's make a noise to get focus stacking into LR proper!

Regards,

Bob


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## Ian.B

To be honest Dave I'm sick of new programs; particularly ones that only do one thing. Photography is becoming such a power/ram hungry hobby. I'm still on LR5/CS2/PSE11+Nik and ICE

Good point Johan; the bigger LR gets the more dramas it will inherit . Not sure they have to keep adding stuff just to keep the geeks happy. More important to a have _really great _smaller program than a bigger  one. I'm at a point where LR5 + the few others is enough and others have enough tool or toys with LR2 or 3 only. 
But I know they will add more.


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