# (plea) Let's not have loose talk about Lightroom 7



## PhilBurton (Jan 6, 2016)

In various posts, people allude to Lightroom 7, supposedly the next release of the standalone product.  However, no one seems to have any definitive information about when it might be released or its major new features, probably because Adobe hasn't released any.

I think that we shouldn't have posts that say something like, "Oh, Adobe will probably add that feature to Lightroom 7."  *There is no guarantee that there will ever be a Lightroom 7. * Here is why:


Adobe no longer has standalone versions of its Creative Suite.  Instead, they have Creative Cloud, a monthly subscription service. 
Adobe also has a Creative Cloud version of Lightroom. 
Wall Street prefers a "subscription model" over a "one-time" purchase model.  A Chief Financial Officer in my company once told me that for the same revenue, a company with a subscription revenue model has a higher stock price because future revenue is more predictable. 
Do the math on upgrade pricing for a new release vs. monthly subscription pricing for Lightroom, considering the time between major releases.  The subscription model yields a lot more in annual revenue for Adobe. 

I'm not trying to be a negative person here.  I have the perpetual license version of Lightroom 6.  I just don't want to see people with less understanding being given false hope.

Phil Burton


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## Johan Elzenga (Jan 6, 2016)

It's true that there is no guarantee that there ever will be a Lightroom 7. Nobody suggests there is such a guarantee. Tom Hogerty, the Lightroom product manager, has said that as long as he is in charge, there will be a perpetual licence version of Lightroom. But that is no guarantee either, maybe Tom will resign for that very reason one day. 

Apart from that, it's rather irrelevant right now. If you own Lightroom 6, you can decide how long you give Adobe the benefit of the doubt. If after that time there still isn't a Lightroom 7, you decide what to do: "surrender" and take a CC subscription after all, or go elsewhere.


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## clee01l (Jan 7, 2016)

It is not loose talk but speculation.  No one here has any inside knowledge. I don't think it is unhealthy to speculate.   

There is one LR product, one LR code base. It is marketed as a perpetual license and a subscription.  How long this continues to be marketed as such is anybody's guess.  Photoshop Express is still sold only as a perpetual license. LR has always made a good companion to that product.

The subscription model points toward guaranteed income. You (Adobe) can borrow against a subscriber base, You cannot borrow against future sales of a perpetual license.   This is why the subscription model is so effective from a business standpoint.


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## tspear (Jan 7, 2016)

Phil,

How many years and releases between Creative Suite Perpetual was ended?
From what I recall, my brother told me Adobe announced the end of the perpetual two releases ago.

But no what Adobe or anyone else says, doom and gloom are in vogue. So of course, there will never be another another perpetual release of Lr.

Tim


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## PhilBurton (Jan 7, 2016)

tspear said:


> Phil,
> 
> How many years and releases between Creative Suite Perpetual was ended?
> From what I recall, my brother told me Adobe announced the end of the perpetual two releases ago.
> ...



Tim (and everyone else),

I'm am not trying to be gloom and doom.  But I'm cautioning against giving some people a false sense of hope. That's all.  Anything is possible.  

I doubt that the product manager would resign over this issue, but he could be overruled by his manager.  Happens only all the time.  That said, his statement is a mildly encouraging indicator that I had not heard before.

What would be productive, and I would completely support, is a concerted effort by the "leadership" in this forum to identify product issues and unmet needs, even to the extent of conducting polls.  I would be happy to assist in this area.

Phil


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## johnbeardy (Jan 7, 2016)

No one knows either way. There is no guarantee that there will be a Lightroom 7 or 8 - but nothing that says there won't be. Let's not scaremonger.

John


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## Victoria Bampton (Jan 7, 2016)

Since all that discussion originally happened, Sharad Mangalick is now Lightroom Product Manager - Tom Hogarty is now his boss, as Director of Product Management for Digital Imaging.

As my fellow Gurus have said, Adobe haven't announced any plans either way.  Any facts anyone does know on the subject are under NDA, so any information bounced around is pure speculation.  There's no point worrying about it until/if it happens.


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## RikkFlohr (Jan 7, 2016)

PhilBurton said:


> I think that we shouldn't have posts that say something like, "Oh, Adobe will probably add that feature to Lightroom 7."  *There is no guarantee that there will ever be a Lightroom 7.*
> 
> Phil Burton


 
I read your post.
*There is no guarantee that there won't be a Lightroom 7
*There is no guarantee of anything.  

Restrictions on discussion are obscene.


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## Jimmsp (Jan 7, 2016)

PhilBurton said:


> ...
> 
> I think that we shouldn't have posts that say something like, "Oh, Adobe will probably add that feature to Lightroom 7."  *There is no guarantee that there will ever be a Lightroom 7. * ....



Speculation by customers is King on the internet. It will never end, and it is sometimes quite entertaining.

A key part of any strategic decision making by a company is what the main competition is doing.
You need to check out Capture One and Phase One. CO has become a large competitor to LR. CO just introduced their V9.x, a fairly nice package.
They have become quite aggressive. Adobe/LR has two choices - lay down and die, or move forward with improvements.
If I were a betting man, I know where I'd put my money .


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## PhilBurton (Jan 7, 2016)

RikkFlohr said:


> I read your post.
> *There is no guarantee that there won't be a Lightroom 7
> *There is no guarantee of anything.
> 
> Restrictions on discussion are obscene.



Uh, if you are under NDA, then you can't discuss anything.  If you are not, but don't possess good information, you might confuse someone, especially people who just got started with Lightroom, who is not that familiar with Adobe's product strategies.


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## Hal P Anderson (Jan 7, 2016)

So what? No matter what we say, it has the potential to confuse someone. We can't let that stop us from saying what we believe to be true or probable. And won't we be sending a different type of confusing message if we surround our statements with a thicket of disclaimers? You are, of course, welcome to ask that we refrain from any prognostications, and we, of course, are free to disagree. I, for one, will continue to give my best guess about what Adobe will do in the future with probably a "probably" in what I say, but no guarantees.


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## Tony Jay (Jan 7, 2016)

A little bit of perspective is called for here:

There is no guarantee, in an absolute sense, that the sun will come up tomorrow.
However, it is highly likely that the sun will indeed come up tomorrow.
Why can I say that?
Experience and observation.

I have no NDA to worry about so I can "speculate" to my heart's content.
Based on prior experience with Adobe I think it is highly unlikely that Adobe will move to a subscription-only model for Lightroom.

The Creative Suite is a totally different animal, used primarily, by a very different demographic to those who use Lightroom primarily.
Is there crossover?
Yes.
And that is the reason that Lightroom is offered as part of the subscription model.
Primary users of Lightroom do sometimes use Photoshop (much less now than in the past) and an even more limited subscription offer is available for those folks.

For those folks who use the Creative Suite as a whole the one-off costs of buying that suite were hurting Adobe's business.
Almost anybody can find $90 or so for a standalone copy of Lightroom.
Perhaps the economics will change in the future - and one should expect Adobe to change their business model accordingly - but for now, the smart money (me!?) is betting that Adobe will not withdraw standalone licensing.

Tony Jay


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## PhilBurton (Jan 8, 2016)

Tony Jay said:


> A little bit of perspective is called for here:
> 
> There is no guarantee, in an absolute sense, that the sun will come up tomorrow.
> However, it is highly likely that the sun will indeed come up tomorrow.
> ...



I hope everyone realizes that I was *NOT *trolling.  That's not my style.  I hope that newcomers to this board read this thread, all of it.

Phil Burton


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## Tony Jay (Jan 8, 2016)

PhilBurton said:


> I hope everyone realizes that I was *NOT *trolling.  That's not my style.  I hope that newcomers to this board read this thread, all of it.
> 
> Phil Burton


I certainly was not making that accusation.
Can't speak for the others but looking at what they said it doesn't appear to me that that was the case either.

Tony Jay


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## Digital Finger (Jun 7, 2016)

btw- when is Lightroom 7 actually coming out?



lol


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## Hal P Anderson (Jun 8, 2016)

Those who know (if anybody *does *know) aren't allowed to say.


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## Denis de Gannes (Jun 8, 2016)

My expectation is that Adobe will make a statement when the last version of Lightroom Perpetual is issued. That has not happened yet so its my expectation that may be LR 6.6 update or LR 7 upgrade.
Thinking out of the box maybe we will see Lightroom replace Bridge / Adobe Camera Raw in Photoshop.


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## PhilBurton (Jun 8, 2016)

I'm really sorry about this thread.  Sorry for starting it.  I started it for the best of intentions, and since I'm in high-tech, in software, (and I actually live in Silicon Valley) I thought that I might have insights to share.  As i said, best of intentions.  However, I feel like I have ruined my reputation with a lot of people on this board, judging  by some of the responses.

Phil


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## clee01l (Jun 8, 2016)

The problem with threads like this is they take a life of their own.  The only way that I know not to have loose talk is to not talk about it.  Instead of discouraging speculation about LR7, threads like this encourage speculation. 

I'll close the thread if that is what you wish. PM me if you want it to stay open


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