# WORKFLOW



## brewer (Dec 13, 2019)

Lightroom non-cloudy version - what is a basic workflow from import to exiting LR.  I don't care about the flow of whether you sharpen first last or never.  I mean:
step one - import RAW from card to where - external hard drive, internal hard drive.  At that point the picture is where?
work on photo blah blah blah
export to where ever then....
as you exit LR - back up what, back up where, save it where, as what and that is where I get lost.  The raw file (actual photo) where is it now living and where is the data living.  The catalog etc.... simple straight forward.  I read and re-read and it becomes a jumble.  Thanks!


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## clee01l (Dec 13, 2019)

Keeping a simple workflow. 
Always import form the camera card via a card reader into a destination chosen by LR. One of the date named folder schemes is best because you can spend more time with keywords which are more important Thant folders in you computer file system.

Once the images have been cataloged cull the missed shots and other unwanted files Probably only 10% of the photos are good enough to keep. You don’t need to delete these righ away, just mark them as rejected {x}. (Therese a place in the workflow later to remove these from the catalog AND the disk. 

Organize the images using keywords and collections (the file folder system is a very poor substitute for organizing images. 

Assign a Title and give a Description to all of your ‘keepers’ 

Use the Develop module to Crop for the best composition and any other edit adjustment as necessary. 

When all of your important images have keywords, a Title and a Caption and have been through the Develop process, they should be marked as complete (I use a color label for this)

Use the publish service to create derivative images to be sent to your final destination (Web, Print, Facebook etc.) 
The Publish Service is your record of which images have been distributed where.

On Exiting LR, use LR’s backup copy process to make a snapshot of your catalog and store this on a different drive from the master catalog file. 

As Always, use a real Backup App to backup all of your critical files including your backup catalogs files and master image files. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Califdan (Dec 13, 2019)

The great thing about standards are that we have so many to choose from - and that applies to LR workflow as well.  What Clee writes is a perfectly valid workflow but there are many other perfectly valid workflows as well.  For example, I rarely import into LR Classic from a card.  However when I do, I either use the card slot in my computer (I don't even own a separate card reader device) or plug the camera into a USB port on my computer via a cable.  More often than not I use Windows File Manager (Finder on a Mac) to copy the images from the memory card to a folder then import from that folder.  I find this runs a lot faster than having LR Classic access the memory card directly.  

When I'm traveling with my laptop, I use Windows to copy the images from the card to a folder on my internal "C" drive.  Then I use the "Copy" option in the import dialog to copy them to their permanent location on an external hard drive which is the location LR Classic then knows about.  By doing this I have 3 copies of each images (memory card, Internal C drive, External Drive).  I don't format or remove images from the memory card while on the road.  However, If I'm working on my home desktop, I use Windows to directly copy the images from the card to the external Hard drive.  Shortly thereafter my back up programs will make a 2nd copy to a 2nd external hard drive and a 3rd copy will be made on my cloud backup service.  

Once imported, the order you do things is a personal matter.  Just choose something that makes sense to you and that you can remember.  Personally, I do this general order

1) Geo tag (if not already geotagged) and add Country, ISO Country, State/provice, City and sublocation at the same time
2)  Add Shoot KW
3)  Add location KW
4)  Cull, Rate and stack images (pass one).  ratings up to 3 stars (do some basic adjustments as I go)
5)  Elevate some images to rating 4 or 5 if deserved
6)  Do more comprehensive touch up on images rated 3 or above
7)  review adjust ratings again
8)  Add Subject oriented KW's to images I intend to publish
9)  publish images on my Website and social media sites as desired
10) as time permits add Subject oriented KW's to lower ranked (non published) images

If you'd like to see how I utilize smart collections and special keywords to keep track of an manage my workflow, see:  LR004 - Use Lightroom Smart Collections & Keywords for Workflow


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## brewer (Dec 14, 2019)

Thanks Califdan, can you explain this?


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## Califdan (Dec 14, 2019)

I don't understand the question?  Your screen shot shows the Catalog Panel and the Folders Panel with 3 drives (C drive with 87 images,  another one I can't read that is collapsed but has 4838 images, and an F drive with 1 image.  

Do you have a specific question about these panels or what they are telling you?

Dan


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## brewer (Dec 14, 2019)

I got it figured out - Adobe was able to sort it out for me.  Thank you for your help - I appreciate it greatly.  I hate being so dense.


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## Zenon (Dec 14, 2019)

You aren't dense. People often get confused with how LR works. I have seen many times where were they refer to the Catalogue as their files. The Catalogue and your files are two separate things and reside wherever you want them too. The Catalogue is just a database that keeps a record of your edits, key wording, etc. You can edit your files using a different developer and it won't effect LR's edits. The Catalogue just needs to know where the files are. Best practise is to move folders around using LR, not the OS. If you are moving thousands of files ask here how to do that.      

Unless you specify on a Mac by default it puts the Lightroom folder that contains the catalogue, etc in Pictures which is on my HD. My files are on an external drive. I don't know where puts it with Windows. You can change the location s of both the catalogue and files if you wish.             

You export to wherever you want to by filling out the Export Location at the top of the Export page. 

When you exit LR backs it up to the backup folder which  is located in the Lightroom folder. This happens automatically. You should check the Test Integrity and Optimize Catalogue boxes.         

You should be backing up your HD as well or wherever you keep the Lightroom folder and your files.


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 14, 2019)

Zenon said:


> When you exit LR backs it up to the backup folder which  is located in the Lightroom folder.


That's the *default* location for the catalog backups, but the usual recommendation is to change the destination for the backups to a separate drive. This can be done in the catalog backup dialog (only need to change it once, the destination location is "sticky").


> This happens automatically.


No it doesn't. The default for new catalogs is set to backup "Once a week, when exiting Lightroom", though this frequency can be changed by the user in the Catalog Setting>General tab.


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## Zenon (Dec 14, 2019)

Jim Wilde said:


> That's the *default* location for the catalog backups, but the usual recommendation is to change the destination for the backups to a separate drive. This can be done in the catalog backup dialog (only need to change it once, the destination location is "sticky").
> 
> No it doesn't. The default for new catalogs is set to backup "Once a week, when exiting Lightroom", though this frequency can be changed by the user in the Catalog Setting>General tab.



I meant you don't have to specify the location of the back up. If you don't LR puts them in the backup folder located in the Lightroom folder. The OP asked where do I backup.  

Is backing up with Time Machine not OK? I though it was the same thing.


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## clee01l (Dec 14, 2019)

Zenon said:


> Is backing up with Time Machine not OK? I though it was the same thing.


Not quite. Both are important. Lightroom’s “backup” is really a snapshot copy of the catalog at a point in time. When the catalog file is open it can be in a unstable state (easily corrupted) 
TimeMachine backs up all of your critical date including even an open catalog file that might be in a unstable state. 
So, you want both and you want TimeMachine to back up the LR backups 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Zenon (Dec 14, 2019)

I may not be completely clear about this. LR is pretty much running all of the time. This means that it is always in an unstable state?  So what is a good solution? Do you shut LR down and backup the Catalogue manually to another location? This would be the backup you can trust?


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## Philippe Coudé du Foresto (Dec 14, 2019)

The LR catalog is a databse. Like for every program using a database, LR open it at startup and close it when shut down. In the mean time, the database might be in instable state.
A database is not a simple file (even if it looks so in the file manager). It's a fact a collection of informations linked together. When one information is changed some related informations (like index) may have to be changed too. For technical reason since all these infos are on the same disk, they cannot be written exactly at the same time. During this (very) short time, the database is instable and if copied it can be corrupted. 
For example, if you copy the database after one information has been changed but before the index has been updated, in the database copy, the index will point to the wrong information.
That's why you must be sure the catalog is really closed before backup it. Activating the LR backup garantee that.  Of course, as previously said, it's better to have these backup on different device than the catalog.


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## Zenon (Dec 14, 2019)

I see. So by shutting down LR and backing it up results in a stable catalogue backup. Do I have that correct?

This is an edit. I want to be clear. When  shutting LR down it creates a stable back up on it's own?


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## Philippe Coudé du Foresto (Dec 14, 2019)

> When  shutting LR down it creates a stable back up on it's own?


Yes, if you have set LR to so (and in this case, it will display a dialog box about backing up the catalog before shuting down).
Remember that the catalog doesn't contain your original files and you must also backup them with a backup tool.


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## Zenon (Dec 14, 2019)

So technically you could use time machine to recover a catalogue as long as you select it from the backups folder. I suppose another method is to shut down LR every night and backup directly from the catalogue itself. You would have to be sure to select it from the time period it was down. Like Jim suggested a separate drive is a good idea, which should also be backed up.

I back up my files which reside on a powered external drive. Every 3 months or so I also back up to two portable drives and one lives in my banks safety deposit box. the Catalogue is also on a USB there. I suppose some type of cloud service would be easier.

Thanks everyone. I learned something new today.


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## clee01l (Dec 14, 2019)

Zenon said:


> I may not be completely clear about this. LR is pretty much running all of the time. This means that it is always in an unstable state?  So what is a good solution? Do you shut LR down and backup the Catalogue manually to another location? This would be the backup you can trust?


I have Lightroom set to make its backup every time that I exit LR.  (which isn't often enough!) .  This gives me the snapshot copy of LR at a point in time.  
If you have LR running pretty much all the time (as I do), it is imperative that you exit periodically and make a backup.   Generally, I make sure that I do this just after importing a new camera card full of new images and at strategic points in my workflow when I have  processed a significant number of images.

I'm sure that you must have noted several sidecar files whenever Lightroom Classic is running.   To speed up the process flow, Adobe does not write everything to the catalog database immediately.  A file named "{CatalogName}.lrcat.journal" creates temporary SQL statements to update the catalog at a time when other LR processes are idle.  The Catalog database won't be up to date with your changes until the journal file  has been cleared. A file named "{CatalogName}.lrcat.wal"  contains the "write ahead log" containing more database process that keep the database in the catalog file tidy and efficient. 
Time Machine will back these up unless you exclude them.  They are useless with out the catalog in the state it was in when these files are created.


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## Zenon (Dec 14, 2019)

Thanks Cletus. I'll keep that in mind.


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## brewer (Dec 19, 2019)

Sorry, me again.  Workflow - 
At the present - I import photos to F: (an external drive) and to C: (internal hard drive) pictures folder.  Both files are named the same with like folders etc. Lightroom looks at F: for the photos for me to develop. When I exit LR I let LR do it's back up thing.  The preferred back up location (not the cloud) would be what - C:/lightroom backups since I do a computer back up each time I am on my machine.  And could I also back up F: with that same software to another EHD?  More or less do two back ups one right after the other or copy the info?  I am thinking I should import my photos to C and only import the "keepers" to LR.  I hope I am making enough sense to answer my questions.   One last question - as I stated LR looks to F for my photos - how does one tell LR to look else where for the photos?  Thanks


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## clee01l (Dec 19, 2019)

brewer said:


> Sorry, me again. Workflow -
> At the present - I import photos to F: (an external drive) and to C: (internal hard drive) pictures folder. Both files are named the same with like folders etc. Lightroom looks at F: for the photos for me to develop. When I exit LR I let LR do it's back up thing. The preferred back up location (not the cloud) would be what - C:/lightroom backups since I do a computer back up each time I am on my machine. And could I also back up F: with that same software to another EHD? More or less do two back ups one right after the other or copy the info? I am thinking I should import my photos to C and only import the "keepers" to LR. I hope I am making enough sense to answer my questions. One last question - as I stated LR looks to F for my photos - how does one tell LR to look else where for the photos? Thanks



Last question answered first. The Lightroom Classic folder panel only shows folder that have cataloged 


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 19, 2019)

brewer said:


> When I exit LR I let LR do it's back up thing. The preferred back up location (not the cloud) would be what - C:/lightroom backups since I do a computer back up each time I am on my machine. And could I also back up F: with that same software to another EHD? More or less do two back ups one right after the other or copy the info?


The backup that Lightroom does is only the catalog, not the images. You can define the location of those backups (in the dialog that comes up and asks you to backup) but you can only define one location, not two.


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## brewer (Dec 19, 2019)

I understand that, John.  If I wanted to back up to another drive could I not back up a second time and tell it another place?  Would I want to?  What about the rest of my questions?


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## brewer (Dec 19, 2019)

Cletus - can you answer any of the other questions?  Thanks


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## brewer (Dec 19, 2019)

Lightroom is currently happy if the F drive is plugged in.  If I wanted lightroom to look at A or B or anywhere else - how is that done?


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 19, 2019)

brewer said:


> I understand that, John. If I wanted to back up to another drive could I not back up a second time and tell it another place? Would I want to?


How should I know if you want to? If you do, then change the location the next time you quit Lightroom and it asks for the backup.



brewer said:


> If I wanted lightroom to look at A or B or anywhere else - how is that done?


As Cletus already said, Lightroom will only look at drives that contain images that it has cataloged. So if you want Lightroom to look at A or B or anywhere else, then you have to import some images from A or B or anywhere else.

*You do not want Lightroom to catalog your image backup(s) however.* Backups are meant to be used *if and when needed,* because the originals are somehow no longer available. *Then, and only then*, you can 'reconnect' Lightroom to the backup drive, or restore the current drive with the images from a backup drive.


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## brewer (Dec 20, 2019)

As Cletus already said, Lightroom will only look at drives that contain images that it has cataloged. So if you want Lightroom to look at A or B or anywhere else, then you have to import some images from A or B or anywhere else.  

Huh?  Import from A or B ?  I import from my sd card and LR doesn't look there.  I import to my C drive and to F and LR looks for F.  How does it know to look at F?  If I want to import to and work from C how would I tell LR to look at C?


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## brewer (Dec 13, 2019)

Lightroom non-cloudy version - what is a basic workflow from import to exiting LR.  I don't care about the flow of whether you sharpen first last or never.  I mean:
step one - import RAW from card to where - external hard drive, internal hard drive.  At that point the picture is where?
work on photo blah blah blah
export to where ever then....
as you exit LR - back up what, back up where, save it where, as what and that is where I get lost.  The raw file (actual photo) where is it now living and where is the data living.  The catalog etc.... simple straight forward.  I read and re-read and it becomes a jumble.  Thanks!


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 20, 2019)

brewer said:


> Huh?  Import from A or B ?  I import from my sd card and LR doesn't look there.  I import to my C drive and to F and LR looks for F.  How does it know to look at F?  If I want to import to and work from C how would I tell LR to look at C?


Lightroom will never show you an SD card in the folder panel, because it *copies* the images from that card to a location on your hard disk and then shows you *that HD location*. You cannot change this for your own good.

Lightroom *can* show you your C drive, but it won't if you also *copy* the images from C to F during import. It will only show you the C drive if you use '*ADD*' (at the top of the import dialog) so the images will be added to the catalog without being copied or moved to another location.


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## brewer (Dec 20, 2019)

I am going to ask one more tome then I give up. 
I1. I import fromSD card.using add to f
2. Lightroom is happy with that no ?
3. I also have it import to c which has same folder structure at the same time
The lcat files—-lr does that on its own as part of the import?  
If I want my files lcat etc on c how do I do that? Wouldn’t that be the proper way since my whole computer gets backed up every day?
When I import to lt and tell it f and a copy to c I know c is going to get back up but c won’t have the changes correct? Where can I find this information in basic understandable terms.  Step by step. 
I want my catalog and photos on c and then c will get backed up and I can also copy cto another drive for safe keeping as a duplicate.   This has been a painful experience as the answers I get assume I know more than I do  thank you


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## Hal P Anderson (Dec 20, 2019)

brewer said:


> Where can I find this information in basic understandable terms. Step by step.


https://www.lightroomqueen.com/members/free-membership/classic-free-ebook/


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 20, 2019)

brewer said:


> I am going to ask one more tome then I give up.
> I1. I import fromSD card.using add to f
> 2. Lightroom is happy with that no ?


Yes, Lightroom is happy with that and it will show you the images *on Drive F *after they have been imported. Like I said it will not (and should not) show the SD card in the folder panel.



brewer said:


> 3. I also have it import to c which has same folder structure at the same time


You cannot and should not import images twice. If you want to make a backup of the images to the C drive, then use a backup application to do this. You can make a second copy to another location during import, but that will *not* create the same folder hierarchy so that is *not* a good way to make a permanent backup of your images. It is only meant for a temporarily backup.



brewer said:


> When I import to lt and tell it f and a copy to c I know c is going to get back up but c won’t have the changes correct?


C will be just a second copy. It will not be managed by Lightroom so the images will not have their own place and edits in Lightroom. But see above: use another method if you want to make a true backup of your F images on the C drive.



brewer said:


> If I want my files lcat etc on c how do I do that? Wouldn’t that be the proper way since my whole computer gets backed up every day?


Yes, and there is no problem doing that. Just copy the Lightroom catalog folder (the entire folder) to the C drive if it isn't already there, and then start Lightroom by double clicking on the catalog file (the file with the .lrcat extension). From now on Lightroom should use the catalog you copied to the C drive. To make sure, go to the Lightroom Preferences - General tab and check that the correct catalog will be used the next time. 'Most recent catalog' is the best choice here.



brewer said:


> I want my catalog and photos on c and then c will get backed up and I can also copy cto another drive for safe keeping as a duplicate. This has been a painful experience as the answers I get assume I know more than I do thank you


The problem is that you give conflicting information, and so you ask confusing questions. If you want your catalog *and images* on C then place the catalog on C the way I describe above and *import the images to C*, *not to F*. Then use a backup application to make a backup of C to F.

And do get that eBook Hal suggested...


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## brewer (Dec 20, 2019)

Thank you


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## brewer (Dec 21, 2019)

Ok, Johan suggested copying the lcrat folder from F to C .  There is no such  folder on f only photos.  The lcrat folder is on C but there are a small number of photos there.  How do I move the photos from F to C  into the lcrat folder.  Does my question make sense.  See the attached screen shots.  Thank you


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 21, 2019)

The catalog folder and the images folder are two separate things. You _can_ use the same folder for both, but you don't have to and most people keep these separated. As your catalog folder is already on drive C, you don't have to do anything with the catalog folder.

So the only thing you need to do is copy the 'judys pictures' folder on the F drive to the C drive, and then 'reconnect' Lightroom to the new location. So here's what you need to do:
1: Using Windows Explorer, copy the 'judys pictures' folder from the F drive to where you want it to be on the C drive. The logical location would be inside your Pictures folder, but that choice is yours. Just make sure you copy it to a location inside your user environment, so not to the root of the C drive.
2: Start Lightroom, right-click on the 'judys pictures' folder in the folder panel and choose 'Update Folder Location'. In the dialog that follows, navigate to the C drive and select the 'judys pictures' folder you just copied to that drive.
3: Done. Lightroom will now use the 'judys pictures' and all its subfolders on the C drive instead of on the F drive. 
4: You may want to tidy up some loose ends. You already had a few pictures folders on the C drive, so they will show outside of the 'judys pictures' topfolder. If you want them to be inside that topfolder, then just drag and drop them (in the Lightroom folder panel) into the topfolder. The only folder you cannot drag into this top folder is 'Desktop'. Instead of dragging the desktop _folder_, drag those five _images_ into another folder.
5: There are a few missing folders with a handful of missing pictures. For example, there is a missing 'gooftroop' folder with 12 pictures. Just below that is a 'gooftrrop' folder that is not missing. Could it be that the missing 12 pictures are in there? If so, do the following: Right-click on the missing 'gooftroop' folder and choose 'Find Missing Folder'. In the dialog that follows select the 'gooftrrop' folder. Because that folder already exits in Lightroom, you will get a warning about that and the question if you want to merge both folders. Click the 'Merge' button.
6: Use the same method to 'reconnect' other missing folders if you know where those images really are. If you really don't know, then you may consider deleting those folders (and so the images) from Lightroom, because Lightroom can't do anything with them anyway.

That should be it. Now everything is on the C drive and tidied. If you make sure that the entire C drive is backed up regularly, then you wouldn't really need to use the Lighroom backup option anymore. If you do want to make catalog backups for extra safety, select another drive (that old F drive?) as location.


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## brewer (Dec 21, 2019)

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.  The more I learn the more my questions make sense to you folks.  Just a little slow on the uptake  The lrcat 2 - can I get rid of this?  2-2 is the new one for the new computer.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 21, 2019)

brewer said:


> THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.  The more I learn the more my questions make sense to you folks.  Just a little slow on the uptake  The lrcat 2 - can I get rid of this?  2-2 is the new one for the new computer.


Yes, you can rename the Lightroom catalog, but make sure you rename the helper files and folders too. You don’t want Lightroom to start rebuilding all your previews, just because you forgot to rename these as well. After you renamed the catalog, double click it to launch Lightroom. You only need to do this once, so Lightroom knows which catalog to use from now on.


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## AlisonTB (Jan 11, 2020)

clee01l said:


> Keeping a simple workflow.
> Always import form the camera card via a card reader into a destination chosen by LR. One of the date named folder schemes is best because you can spend more time with keywords which are more important Thant folders in you computer file system.
> 
> Once the images have been cataloged cull the missed shots and other unwanted files Probably only 10% of the photos are good enough to keep. You don’t need to delete these righ away, just mark them as rejected {x}. (Therese a place in the workflow later to remove these from the catalog AND the disk.
> ...


Hi All:

Of course I just had a complete failure of my portable hard drive, with almost 10 TB of images (no worries, images are backed up in various places). Pretty sure the data recovery people can save me, but Obviously I have to redesign my workflow, and need some advice. ARGH! Heres what I think I should do from now on:

1. Shoot the images
2.Upload using 'master catalog' on MAC desktop, store image files on portable hard drive #1
3. edit etc
4. close and backup 'master desktop catalog' to portable hard drive #1

Now: I'm confused about how to best back up hard drive #1, where images and a backup catalog are. Clone to hard drive #2?  Image to #2? "export as a catalog'? 
Also, if I end up using hard drive #3, will the catalog and images be connected to each other on #3? 


Thanks for your help-

Alison Taggart-Barone


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## clee01l (Jan 13, 2020)

AlisonTB said:


> 1. Shoot the images
> 2.Upload using 'master catalog' on MAC desktop, store image files on portable hard drive #1
> 3. edit etc
> 4. close and backup 'master desktop catalog' to portable hard drive #1


As I said, "Keeping a simple workflow."

Import the image files from the camera card. Check " Make a second copy to..." to create a temporary 2nd copy of your originals.   This is so that you can erase the camera card immediately after import if needed. 
Running Time Machine always in the background, TimeMachine will create a version copy of all of your critical user data including image file and catalog file including backup catalog files. 
As soon as Time Machine has created one back up of your master image file and your " Make a second copy to..." files you can erase the " Make a second copy to..." files 
If you are not comfortable with TimeMachine backing up to only one External Drive, set it to alternate between two External Drives.   Let the system back up app (Time Machine) manage backups.   It will do a better job that you can remember to do yourself.


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