# Selecting The Best Image Area for White Balance



## jackjohn777 (Jul 29, 2012)

I've read numerous bits of advice about how to choose the best area/spot on an image to set White Balance (see below), but their seems a fair bit of debate on the subject with many often contradicting some of the advice, so I'd appreciate it if I could get your views. 

1. I've seen some people say to select an area on your image where the RGB values are almost equal, but does it make sense to do that? It also feels like you'll be hunting around quite a bit.

2. I've seen some people say that the neutral area you pick is for example a spot that SHOULD be e.g. grey rather than IS grey on your image. Is this the case, and does it mean that if you have a spot that is grey on the image and another spot that isn't that grey but you know is grey in reality, should you pick the latter?

3. I've seen people suggest you should take a grey card with you when shooting, and use that to get a universal preset that can be applied to all other images taken on that shoot. A similar suggestion was to forget the grey board, and simply take a picture of something grey during the shoot and do the same as the card option in LR.

4. I've seen people say not to choose the extreme neutrals like bright white and pure black.

5. I've seen suggestions to use the whites of eyes, supposedly from experts, but others saying not to do that as eyes are reflective and pick up colours e.g. if the subject is wearing a pink jumper then this could be represented in the eye whites. 

6. Some advise to set the White Balance first, and others say to set the 'blacks', 'highlights' etc in the Basic panel first, but this feels counter intuitive to me.

Any advice on which of these items are accurate and which aren't as well as a recommendation on the best ones to follow would be really helpful, as I don't currently feel confident that I'm picking the right 'colour/neutral', it feels more of a guess, and I'm especially unsure what to do if the image hasn't got any obvious neutrals in it. I'm unlikely to carry around a grey board with me all the time when I have my camera, but remembering to take an photo of something grey every now and again doesn't feel to onerous if this is a good idea, and I guess it would also cover off the scenario I raised when an image I want to process doesn't have any obvious neutrals in it. However I'd prefer a method of simply picking the best neutral when in the Develop module.

Thanks in advance


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## Hal P Anderson (Jul 29, 2012)

Not should. You _*have*_ to pick something that is neutral _in reality_ and click on that. Shooting a grey card to click on later is a special case.

What the WB eyedropper does is to take the spot you click on and figure out what kind of transformation needs to be done to that spot to make it neutral in the picture (r,g, and b values all equal) and then apply that transformation to the entire image. Clicking on a spot where they are already equal to each other will have no effect.

You don't want to pick pure black, because all the channels are zero, hence equal, hence no effect. See above. Same for pure white.

Eyeballs? If there is nothing else in the image that you know to be neutral, that can give you a good starting point. I've done it to relatively good effect. Just pay attention to the results.

If there is nothing in the image that you know to be neutral, there's no mechanism for getting the WB "right". Just adjust the WB until things look pretty.  Photographs, at best, are only a loose approximation to the reality that existed when and where they were shot, so you can let your creativity run wild. 

Hal


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## jackjohn777 (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks Hal. When I wrote 'should' be grey, I meant it is grey in reality but isn't on the image i.e. should be showing as grey but isn't for whatever reason.

I agree with your comments about the RGB values, and it makes sense to me, which is why I was worried, but to prove the confusion out there I was just watching another tutorial when you replied, and that started by saying to hover over areas until you find a spot where the %s are all equal, so it just shows why people like me aren't clear what to do.

From what you're saying taking a photo of the the grey card or something grey on the day seems the best idea, because obviously there wont always be neutrals in an image, and there wont always be eyeballs. 

By the way, have I not set up LR (4.1) properly because I've noticed from all the video tutorials I've watched that peoples 'Temp' slider in LR4 has values in the 1000s to it's right e.g. 6478, and yet mine goes up to '100' max. Also when they click 'Custom' they get options like 'Cloudy' or 'Daylight' or 'Flash' but I only have 'Custom', 'As is' and 'Auto'. Is there an obvious reason for this?

Thanks


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## Jim Wilde (Jul 29, 2012)

jackjohn777 said:


> By the way, have I not set up LR (4.1) properly because I've noticed from all the video tutorials I've watched that peoples 'Temp' slider in LR4 has values in the 1000s to it's right e.g. 6478, and yet mine goes up to '100' max. Also when they click 'Custom' they get options like 'Cloudy' or 'Daylight' or 'Flash' but I only have 'Custom', 'As is' and 'Auto'. Is there an obvious reason for this?
> 
> Thanks



Yes, it sounds like you're processing a Jpeg. Try using a Raw and you'll get the same options as in the video tutorials.


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## jackjohn777 (Jul 29, 2012)

Ah yes, I had half a dozen images that were jpegs before I switched my camera setting to RAW. That explains it!

Thank you


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## Mark Sirota (Jul 30, 2012)

jackjohn777 said:


> 1. I've seen some people say to select an area on your image where the RGB values are almost equal, but does it make sense to do that? It also feels like you'll be hunting around quite a bit.
> 
> 2. I've seen some people say that the neutral area you pick is for example a spot that SHOULD be e.g. grey rather than IS grey on your image. Is this the case, and does it mean that if you have a spot that is grey on the image and another spot that isn't that grey but you know is grey in reality, should you pick the latter?



I think these two have been answered already, but to reinforce it -- click on something that SHOULD BE neutral. Doesn't matter whether it already looks neutral. In your example, yes, pick the latter. It makes absolutely no sense to me to go hunting around looking at RGB values.



> 3. I've seen people suggest you should take a grey card with you when shooting, and use that to get a universal preset that can be applied to all other images taken on that shoot. A similar suggestion was to forget the grey board, and simply take a picture of something grey during the shoot and do the same as the card option in LR.



I don't think I've seen this answered. I use this approach quite a bit. Sometime before/during/after, shoot a white balance target in the same light as your subject. Then in Lightroom, start with that frame. Click the WB eyedropper on the WB target, then sync the WB to all the other shots taken in the same light.

This is the same as finding something in an existing scene that should be neutral, but in this case you KNOW it should be neutral. Not all white shirts are truly white.

A white balance target is usually a piece of cardboard or plastic that is designed to be neutral in a wide variety of light that is extremely matte (not glossy). Another similar approach is to use something I'll call a "white balance filter", a neutral piece of translucent material you put over your lens, then take a photo of the light source.



> 4. I've seen people say not to choose the extreme neutrals like bright white and pure black.



Good advice, up to a point. You generally want to click on something neutral that's close to white rather than close to black, only because there's more resolution in the highlights than in the shadows and so you'll get a more accurate reading. But if it's so bright that one or more channels are clipped, that won't work. So you want a neutral target that's as white as possible without clipping.



> 5. I've seen suggestions to use the whites of eyes, supposedly from experts, but others saying not to do that as eyes are reflective and pick up colours e.g. if the subject is wearing a pink jumper then this could be represented in the eye whites.



The concern isn't whether the subject is wearing a pink jumper -- the concern is whether the photographer is wearing a pink jumper. You can see your own reflection (and everything behind you) in the subject's eyes. They're extremely reflective. The eyes can be a good starting point if there's nothing else neutral in your photo, but they're not ideal.



> 6. Some advise to set the White Balance first, and others say to set the 'blacks', 'highlights' etc in the Basic panel first, but this feels counter intuitive to me.



Me too, especially on the highlight end. WB first.


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## ukbrown (Jul 31, 2012)

I find that the auto in LR 4.1 does a pretty good job of getting it right, have you tried it, do it and then pick a point with the eyedropper or just use it as a starting point.


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## jackjohn777 (Jul 31, 2012)

Thanks Mark, perfect answers for my OP. 

UKbrown - Yes, I've found the auto in LR4.1 pretty good as well as a starting pt.


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