# comfortable mouse



## pixelcount (Dec 4, 2012)

What's a comfortable mouse to use for hours of Lightroom use?  I've tried to use the keyboard arrows to control the sliders, but keep going back to the mouse.  I'm using an old wired Logitech optical mouse, which is desktop sized, not mobile, but my hand still gets tired after a few hours of using it.  I primarily use it with my left hand, but I occasionally switch to my right hand.

Thanks,

Allen


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## Replytoken (Dec 4, 2012)

Hi Allen,

I have used a Logitech v450 cordless laser mouse for years and find it comfortable.  I believe that the M505 is its replacement, but you really need to try out a mouse before buying if at all possible.

Good luck,

--Ken


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## theWeissGuy (Dec 4, 2012)

I have long used a MS Trackball Explorer which is unfortunately no longer made but is occasionally available on eBay. IMHO (and many others) its the best trackball ever made. Why MS discontinued it is a mystery to me. Than again not every one likes trackballs but I think it can't be beat for comfortable prolonged use. It is right-handed only though.
________________
the WeissGuy


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## Colin Robinson (Dec 4, 2012)

For me and many experienced photo editors this is a no brainer. 
The answer? As big and sophisticated a Wacom tablet as you can afford! 
If you haven't used one you'll find it strange at first, but after a week you'll wonder how you lived without one.  It is also much easier ( for most folks) to follow outlines and to draw with LR and PS brushes using a tablet. I've no connection to Wacom, and there are other makes available. I think .
I also have a logitech wireless mouse which is absolutely fine, no problems whatsoever, attached to my computer, and can't remember the last time I used it for anything in any programme.


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## johnbeardy (Dec 4, 2012)

theWeissGuy said:


> I have long used a MS Trackball Explorer which is unfortunately no longer made but is occasionally available on eBay. IMHO (and many others) its the best trackball ever made. Why MS discontinued it is a mystery to me. Than again not every one likes trackballs but I think it can't be beat for comfortable prolonged use. It is right-handed only though.
> ________________
> the WeissGuy



I couldn't agree more!


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## pixelcount (Dec 4, 2012)

Hi Colin,

I've thought about a getting a tablet, but I've read it's really not useful if all I'm doing is using the sliders in the develop module.  I do use the crop tool often, but the mouse is fine for that as I don't need precision in my cropping.  I don't use photoshop at all.  I'm just unhappy with my mouse because it's uncomfortable after 6+ hours of use.  Maybe I just need to get off my computer when it gets uncomfortable.  Unfortunately I shoot raw, so every photo needs some sort of adjustment.

Allen


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 4, 2012)

Tablet was my first thought too.  I used a MS Trackball Explorer for a long time - it's still in a box in the loft - but personally I find the pen much better.  The Intuos pen is much more comfortable than the cheaper ones though.  I use it for everything - from web browsing to Lightroom to file management.


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## Colin Robinson (Dec 4, 2012)

Allen,
If a mouse fulfils your needs then keep your dollar in your pocket. I certainly did not mean to sound patronising, but I suspect if you could try  a tablet you would see the benefits. Look on the internet at videos any of the well known photographers or photography teachers and you will almost invariably find they use a tablet. There must be a reason for that 
I think holding a pen for 6 hours and tapping the tablet would be easier on the hand than a mouse, but as you already know 6 hours is far too long-- force yourself to stop for a few ten mins breaks in that time- get way from the screen and rest your eyes and hand. I find it freshens me up mentally and physically. 
You will , I suspect, start to use PS, whether elements or a full version, as you want to do more with your photos, and you WILL find a tablet an awful lot easier to use.
At the end of the day it's your dollar and your choice buddy!


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## johnbeardy (Dec 4, 2012)

I don't think it's a simple case of you "must have a tablet".

 For a long time I couldn't get used to them, and was happy without, but one year I was demonstrating for Adobe at the Focus on Imaging show and Wacom offered to loan us Intuos tablets. For 4 days I forced myself to use one, just to see if I'd changed, and by the end of the show I had moved from my previous feeling and was in favour - but only marginally. So now I do have one, I like and use it, but only for the local adjustment brush in Lightroom and much more for lots of different kinds of brushwork in Photoshop. I don't use it at all outside graphics apps, and I suspect the only reason "the well known photographers or photography teachers" use them is that they have never done anything else or have just gone with the herd.

John


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## clee01l (Dec 4, 2012)

For a while I used a Wacom Bamboo tablet. The whole tablet ~4X7 inches mapped onto my complete dual screen display coordinates making the precision of the stylus horrible. Constant hovering over the surface made my hands tired after a while like using the mouse. Stray finger touches were a constant battle. A casual brush of the surface with a pinkie, turned a one finger operation into an unexpected two finger gesture. The best feature of the Wacom are the programmable keys.  i do miss those for the speed it gave me in culling (X,P, next).

Earlier this year, I moved to a Mac with a Trackpad. I have much better control and precision with the track pad than I ever had with the Wacom Tablet. I do miss those programmable buttons though. 

FWIW, if there is anyone within a reasonable shipping distance, I have a very nice Wacom Bamboo Pen & Touch for sale to a  reasonable offer.


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## Replytoken (Dec 4, 2012)

pixelcount said:


> What's a comfortable mouse to use for hours of Lightroom use? I've tried to use the keyboard arrows to control the sliders, but keep going back to the mouse. I'm using an old wired Logitech optical mouse, which is desktop sized, not mobile, but my hand still gets tired after a few hours of using it. I primarily use it with my left hand, but I occasionally switch to my right hand.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Allen



Allen,

One additional thought.  Are you using, or can you use a keyboard/mouse tray?  I sit in front of a computer for 9 hours a day, and find that an adjustable tray that holds both a keyboard and mouse is essential.  If you do not have one, you may want to consider it if you can.

--Ken


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## quantum (Dec 4, 2012)

I have used one of these for long periods at a computer http://www.evoluent.com/index.html. With great effect. It cured my capal tunnel.
That said I haven;t used it on the pc I use lightroom with. I went for a smaller conventional mouse, like a travel mouse as it has a better feel to me for small movements such as retouching.
I also have used external keyboards such as RPG keys, but now use Paddy for Lightroom with a small number pad to the left of my smaller normal keyboard (with no number pad). I woudn;t be without this set up as moving sliders is such a pain.


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## Colin Robinson (Dec 5, 2012)

johnbeardy said:


> I don't think it's a simple case of you "must have a tablet".
> 
> For a long time I couldn't get used to them, and was happy without, but one year I was demonstrating for Adobe at the Focus on Imaging show and Wacom offered to loan us Intuos tablets. For 4 days I forced myself to use one, just to see if I'd changed, and by the end of the show I had moved from my previous feeling and was in favour - but only marginally. So now I do have one, I like and use it, but only for the local adjustment brush in Lightroom and much more for lots of different kinds of brushwork in Photoshop. I don't use it at all outside graphics apps, and I suspect the only reason "the well known photographers or photography teachers" use them is that they have never done anything else or have just gone with the herd.
> 
> John



John,
I, for one, never suggested Allen "must have a tablet" . The quote is yours, and certainly not something I said, nor anyone else in the post so far as I can see. The last line in my post was "It's your choice and your dollar." Despite the fact that you demonstrate for Adobe, I find it slightly offensive and patronising of you to suggest that other photography teachers and instructors, like Victoria, and by extension, myself, a mere photographer, who use a wacom tablet do so because we "follow the herd" or "have never done anything else". I would be amazed if any computer, certainly PC, user didn't start off using a mouse. 
Over the years I have used photoshop i have used many mouses/mice (??) and I paid a lot of money for my tablet because it is the tool which suits ME best for MY use. I started with a smaller one and then upgraded. I did not choose it because I am stupid or do things simply because someone else does it. This is a friendly and helpful forum and devoid of flame wars which mar other forums. I have no intention of changing  that and this is not intended as such in any way. You may have caught me at a bad moment but it is unfair and disrespectful of you John, to dismiss the considered choice of other professionals as "herd following".

With regards to Clee's problems with the bamboo tablet, I have no  comment on the tablet as I have never used one. From Clee's account I presume it has "touch" finger or hand controlled facilities, which means one can't rest one's hand on the tablet, resulting in tiredness. mapping a 4x7 tablet to dual screens doesn't sound like a good idea. Was there a choice?
I use a large intuos 4, which does not have hand/touch facilities and is operated by a stylus, meaning I rest my hand on the tablet, like writing on paper, without the tiredness caused by having to "hover my hand" above the surface and I am very happy with it.

Allen, my advice remains - try as many different products as you can , and make up YOUR mind.  Who knows, you might find something new and start your own herd!


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 5, 2012)

johnbeardy said:


> I suspect the only reason "the well known photographers or photography teachers" use them is that they have never done anything else or have just gone with the herd.



I think that's a bit of a generalisation - if they didn't like it, I can't see that they'd still be using it.  As far as 'never done anything else' goes, almost everyone has used a mouse (heck, even my grandad tried it, although he kept calling it a rabbit :mrgreen, and most people have used a trackpad on a laptop too.  

It's not for everyone, for sure, and I think the quality of the tablet really comes into play.  I used a Graphire pen for a long time, and that did tire my hands, whereas the Intuos doesn't.  I think I'd turn off any touchpad capabilities so I could rest on the tablet too.  And for dual screens, I wouldn't want to go too small a tablet.  Takes some getting used to too - I'd usually recommend shutting the mouse in the drawer for a good 2 weeks, and then make a decision about when to use it.


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## johnbeardy (Dec 5, 2012)

Of course, we all have a mix of tendencies to follow herds in different fields. Sure, some do make coldly-considered choices, Colin, but you're the one who supported your "no brainer" advice (how does that differ from "must have a tablet"?) by pointing to what others are doing. Rather than my being patronising, maybe my comment was an observation that has too much of a ring of truth? I'd take the same line about their mostly using Macs rather than PCs, but that's a different argument. 

The fact is that a pen is of marginal use in Lightroom (unlike in Photoshop). It is very handy for the adjustment brush, but nothing else, and in every other aspect of working with Lightroom a good trackball mouse is just as capable.

John


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## gregDT (Dec 5, 2012)

Being the perverse sod that I am I have a Wacom and it sits in a draw most of the time as I prefer a mouse for very fine work in PS and using the adjustment brush in LR. I also have a triple monitor set up that a tablet simply cannot accommodate as I need to span about 5900 pixels from monitor edge to monitor edge. I'm far from typical in this I know. Also as mentioned there might be less of a compelling argument for using a tablet in LR if you don't make local brush adjustments. However the question was to suggest a mouse to use for long periods of time that was easy on the hand. The MS trackball was legendary and I still use mine from time to time with a laptop where I have limited space to slide a mouse about.

For long work sessions I use a PC gaming set up, yep I'm a nerdy gamer as well. Gaming mice and mats are designed to very incredibly sensitive to movement, but to also allow large movements when required. I find that using one for editing means I'm actually pushing the mouse about a great deal less than a normal mouse. And when it does move it almost floats over the mat surface.
The mouse I use is http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-mice/razer-imperator
The mouse mat is a http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-mouse-pads/razer-destructor-2

Neither are cheap but together they provide a very short travel almost frictionless experience and might be worth a look. You also get to feel cool and 'down with kids' when you have a cool mouse/mat set up


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## sty2586 (Dec 5, 2012)

In my setup (and I don't know why) I click on the slider and then move it very smoothly with the scroll wheel; click on the next and so on.
very comfortable.

Greetings from Vienna
Franz


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## Brad Snyder (Dec 5, 2012)

Greg, wandering off topic a bit, what do you use for a video adapter(s) to drive the 3 monitors?  I used to use 3 or 4 displays back in the ISA bus days, but I can't find a satisfactory solution with my PCIe x1 expansion slots.


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## gregDT (Dec 5, 2012)

Two nVidia cards each with twin DVI outputs. I plug two monitors into one card and the third into the other. I  suppose I could technically run a forth monitor as well. Windows 7 sees all three monitors and I use http://www.displayfusion.com/ to manage task bars, wallpaper etc.


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## Brad Snyder (Dec 5, 2012)

Do you have 2 wide PCI slots?  I have 1 slot that's x16 for the main video card, the rest of my available slots are x1. For some reason x1 video cards tend to be quite expensive, even at relatively low spec. I have played with USB to VGA as well, and ended up with all sorts of resolution and Aero compatibility problems.


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 6, 2012)

Brad, thought about changing your graphics card? Even the low-end current cards from Nvidia and AMD have 3 ports: minimum of VGA, DVI and HDMI. My middle-of-the road two and a half year old ATI 5750 has three such ports.....


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## pixelcount (Dec 6, 2012)

Thanks for everyone's replies.  I do have access to an old Logitech Trackman wheel mouse.  I briefly tried it for general computer use years ago and remembered not liking it.  I'll look into a gaming mouse and the M505.  Using the keyboard arrows to control the sliders would be the simple solution, but I just can't get the hang of it.


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## Colin Robinson (Dec 6, 2012)

johnbeardy said:


> Of course, we all have a mix of tendencies to follow herds in different fields. Sure, some do make coldly-considered choices, Colin, but you're the one who supported your "no brainer" advice (how does that differ from "must have a tablet"?) by pointing to what others are doing. Rather than my being patronising, maybe my comment was an observation that has too much of a ring of truth? I'd take the same line about their mostly using Macs rather than PCs, but that's a different argument.
> 
> The fact is that a pen is of marginal use in Lightroom (unlike in Photoshop). It is very handy for the adjustment brush, but nothing else, and in every other aspect of working with Lightroom a good trackball mouse is just as capable.
> 
> John



John,
Don't quote parts of my sentences and use them to justify your arguments. I did not say on the subject of having a tablet, "It's a no brainer" meaning I believe everyone should have a tablet. If you reread the post you will find I said, "For *me and many experienced photo editors* this is a no brainer", meaning *we* have tried tablets, found a tablet which suits and fulfils *our* needs, and having used them find we have no need to use a mouse again, or  we use a mixture of the tablet and a mouse in the same, or different programs. 
I doubt that *you* use Photoshop and Lightroom because you followed the herd. I would like to think it's because you tried them, saw what they could do for you, and decided they were the best tool available for the job in hand at the time you made your decision. You must have persevered with them till you learned enough to be able to use them effectively and realise their potential, and continued learning to the point where they become essential tools for *YOU*. Please afford tablet users the same professional courtesy, in that they have probably gone through the same process to end up as tablet users.  I know I have. I don't for a second doubt that there are photographers out there, both amateur and professional, and indeed people in every walk of life who will buy or advocate for a product because a so called expert, who is flavour of the month, recommends it. 
You continued to learn PS and LR to the point where you demonstrate for Adobe and write your books and plug-ins, and huge kudos and respect to you for that. 
 This is my last post on this topic - and probably any other.


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## johnbeardy (Dec 6, 2012)

We'll just have to agree to differ. I do hope you will contribute on other topics.


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## Brad Snyder (Dec 6, 2012)

Thanks, Jim, I have a look in that direction.


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## gregDT (Dec 6, 2012)

I've a mobo with one x1 slot and three x16 slots. My GPU's are both Zotac 560's


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## Brad Snyder (Dec 6, 2012)

thanks, I figured you had more than 1 x16 slot


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