# Reorganizing folders within Lightroom?



## janger (Feb 24, 2008)

I've only been using LR for a couple of days and like it on the most part. However there's one thing I can't work out and that's how to reorganize my folder hierarchy.

When I set up my first catalog I just imported the photos into a single folder. Now I would like to reorganize them into "dated" folders like can be done when first importing from disk. It's possible to write metadata to the files, create a new catalog and import the photos. But although keywords etc are kept, collections are lost. And using "Import from catalog" doesn't allow a new folder hierarchy to be set.

While trying to work this out I thought what's really needed is to allow path delimiters ("\") to be inserted in the "Rename photos" dialog templates. I tried several ways to do this but it doesn't seem to work.

So is there a way to do this or am I stuck?


----------



## Kiwigeoff (Feb 24, 2008)

janger;9'36 said:
			
		

> I've only been using LR for a couple of days and like it on the most part. However there's one thing I can't work out and that's how to reorganize my folder hierarchy.
> 
> When I set up my first catalog I just imported the photos into a single folder. Now I would like to reorganize them into "dated" folders like can be done when first importing from disk. It's possible to write metadata to the files, create a new catalog and import the photos. But although keywords etc are kept, collections are lost. And using "Import from catalog" doesn't allow a new folder hierarchy to be set.
> 
> ...



Dave, welcome to the forum, please take a moment to fill in your signature with system info etc, it will help getting the correct responses.
Organising folders is fairly easy IF YOU DO IT WITHIN LR.

Just add folders with the + and name them with the date you wish to use and then select the images you wish to have in the folder and drag them to the folder, remembering to grab an image by the thumbnail not the border.
You can move the folders around easily within LR by dragging them in the folder panel.
I did this by first adding a "2''8" folder then with that folder highlighted adding (with the +) 12 other folders numbered 1-12 for months and then within those are dated folders. It end up with:
2''8
'1​ '1-23​ '1-23 Pigs​'1-23 Pigs flying​




The second question about file paths I don't understand as I use Macs and have never used PCs.


----------



## janger (Feb 25, 2008)

I thought that would be one of the first answers :frown:

I was actually looking for a semi-automated way. At the moment I'm just working on a 'test' catalog to find my way around Lightroom. But I have several thousand photos to catalog eventually and it would be fairly time consuming to create all the folders manually.

Is this not possible?


----------



## Victoria Bampton (Feb 25, 2008)

Do you already have them in a sensible folder structure?  If so, choose Import at Current Location when you import, and it'll reference the files where they stand.

Alternatively, if this is only a test catalog, you may be best to start again and allow it to import into dated folders automatically on import.

That said, it's a neat idea.  Why not put in a feature request?  The official form can be found at the top of the feature request forum.


----------



## Victoria Bampton (Feb 25, 2008)

Are collections the only thing you're losing along the way?  If so, have you got many?  It might be worth the time to create keywords for those collections, write that to xmp, and start a new catalog.  You could easily rebuild your collections based on the keywords you created to identify them.


----------



## janger (Feb 25, 2008)

Victoria Bampton;9'47 said:
			
		

> That said, it's a neat idea.


It sure is!  Just being able to enter folder structure in the Rename dialog would make organizing so much better.



			
				Victoria Bampton;9'48 said:
			
		

> It might be worth the time to create keywords for those collections, write that to xmp, and start a new catalog. You could easily rebuild your collections based on the keywords you created to identify them.


Yes, I think this is the only way to go about it at the moment. It looks like all data except the collections is retained.

One more quick question, the help file says you can export the xmp data. Does this only work with certain file types? It seems with jpegs xmp can only be written into the files. Is that correct?


----------



## Brad Snyder (Feb 25, 2008)

> One more quick question, the help file says you can export the xmp data. Does this only work with certain file types? It seems with jpegs xmp can only be written into the files. Is that correct?



Correct: with jpgs, the xmp data is embedded in the jpg file structure.

Are you exporting the jpg's, or is that the source format? If you're using jpg originals, you need to make sure you're set to auto-write the changes to xmp or to force a write when needed with ctrl-s.  Look under File > Catalog Settings, to enable metadata embedding in raster file types, and to enable autowriting xmp data.


----------



## Mark Sirota (Feb 25, 2008)

janger;9'36 said:
			
		

> While trying to work this out I thought what's really needed is to allow path delimiters ("\") to be inserted in the "Rename photos" dialog templates. I tried several ways to do this but it doesn't seem to work.



I think you've got your answer, but I would also like to encourage you to file a feature request for this.  I requested exactly this (to be able to add filesystem path delimiters in naming templates) many months ago, and the more of us who ask, the more likely it is to happen.


----------



## janger (Feb 25, 2008)

Brad Snyder;9'65 said:
			
		

> If you're using jpg originals, you need to make sure you're set to auto-write the changes to xmp or to force a write when needed with ctrl-s.  Look under File > Catalog Settings, to enable metadata embedding in raster file types, and to enable autowriting xmp data.


Yes I realized that. But my problem now is sort of the opposite - how to remove embedded XMP data when I'm finished with it, keeping all other EXIF fields etc as they were before importing? I can do it with ExifTool but don't know how in Lightroom. I'm new to the idea of embedding all that (sometimes) personal info and for now would like it to remain where I know it is - like in the catalog - since I'm a little bit paranoid these days.



			
				Mark Sirota;9'71 said:
			
		

> ...but I would also like to encourage you to file a feature request for this.


Done!


----------



## James_N (Feb 25, 2008)

An easy way to solve your problem is by using dedicated software.  I use Downloader Pro from Breeze Systems (payware, but with a trial period), and the freeware version of ImageIngester will work just as well.

Close Lightroom and then run either of these programs and use tokens to set up your file structure.  Both programs can read the EXIF in each photo and organize your photos into folders by date.

For example, I can tell Downloader Pro to "download" images from a location on my hard drive and it will do so and automatically arrange them into dated folders.  Although this is not the primary use of the software, it works well to retroactively sort images.

After sorting your photos into your preferred folder structure, open Lightroom and you will see several indicators of "missing photos." In the Folders Panel, your current folder will be colored red to indicate that images are missing.  Also, in Library Mode Grid View, the moved images will have a "question mark" on the image thumbnail.

At that stage simply instruct Lightroom to locate the missing images by pointing it to the top folder in your hierarchy, then select Library > Synchronize Folder and choose the "Show Missing Photos" option.




			
				janger;9'45 said:
			
		

> I thought that would be one of the first answers :frown:
> 
> I was actually looking for a semi-automated way. At the moment I'm just working on a 'test' catalog to find my way around Lightroom. But I have several thousand photos to catalog eventually and it would be fairly time consuming to create all the folders manually.
> 
> Is this not possible?


----------



## Victoria Bampton (Feb 25, 2008)

janger;9'51 said:
			
		

> It looks like all data except the collections is retained.



Data that's not stored in XMP includes:

Collection membership, image pan positions, Develop module panel switches, stacks, virtual copies, develop history, flags

But then, if this is fairly new, you may not be affected by those things.


----------



## janger (Feb 25, 2008)

Victoria, thanks for that. Apart from the lost collections, nothing else matters at the moment for me.

James_N, I knew LR had methods built in to find lost files but wasn't sure how good it was. I just tested it and I get the question marks in grid view but no folders turn red. So I have to click on every single photo to locate it. Hmmm. Not sure about this now.


----------



## James_N (Feb 25, 2008)

I suppose it depends on where your original folder is located.  Is the original folder in the root directory of the drive, or is it a sub-folder?

For example, my image folders are organized as follows on a dedicated drive named "Photos."


The formatting of my original illustration got messed up so here's a screen capture of the folder structue of one of my catalogs.







If I used the operating system to move any image, the affected folder is colored red in Lightroom.  Then I simply point Lightroom to the new location and tell it to synchronize, or alternatively I can click the question mark in Grid view.  I can even point it at a higher level, say 2''8, and it still synchronizes.


----------



## Victoria Bampton (Feb 25, 2008)

Dave, just try restarting LR and then wandering off for a short while.  LR will usually relink files in the same folder, once you've told it where to find one.


----------



## janger (Feb 25, 2008)

Ok what I did was move a few files to a subfolder. Although the question marks showed up, the folders never turned red. I shut down LR for a few minutes and upon restarting it was the same. I left it for several minutes and still the same.

BTW, this is LR version 1.3.1


----------



## Victoria Bampton (Feb 25, 2008)

Ah!  Ok, the folder only turns red if it can't find the folder.  Question marks show up if it can find the folder but not the images.


----------



## James_N (Feb 25, 2008)

Ah hah...my mistake.

However, you can still synchronize folders if you know you've made changes to them.


----------



## janger (Feb 25, 2008)

Yes Victoria I just read that myself.

But I'm not sure what's going on. I think it has found the "lost" photos but it's left the previews with the question marks there as well. Does this mean any time this happens I will have to manually delete the incorrect references - the ones with the question mark?

Edit: Sorry I meant to say at least LR adds a temporary "Error Images" collection which would help to track down the problems. But it still seems this could cause some pains every now and then.


----------



## Victoria Bampton (Feb 25, 2008)

What happens if you click on one of the question mark images and take it into Develop?  Does it open ok?  If it says 'The file could not be opened', then it still can't find it.  If it opens ok, it has found it.


----------



## janger (Feb 25, 2008)

No it has duplicates. For example, a preview image where the photo was moved to, and also an image with a question mark where the photo was originally. If I right click the one with a '?' and try and explore to it, it says the photo is missing.

Anyway, I must have done something wrong. I just did another test and renamed a folder. The old folder showed red as it should. But it seems it wants me to locate every single photo myself. With thousands of photos that would be very bad!

So I guess I'll just have to go ahead and create my proper catalog, and hope I never ever accidentally move anything, rename anything or try to change the folder hierarchy. That's a bit of a downer for a piece of software that I find pretty much ideal in every other respect.


----------



## James_N (Feb 25, 2008)

Dave, did you try right-clicking on the red-colored folder, then selecting the "Synchronize Folder" option?


----------



## Victoria Bampton (Feb 25, 2008)

If they are duplicates, just select them and hit delete.  I've seen the same problem in the past when I've moved a bunch of files while LR was trying to build previews or run another import, things like that.

Once you get used to doing things within LR, you won't run into many problems.

And when you do, the relocating missing images and folders does usually work perfectly, but sometimes some of the other things we try along the way can confuse it!


----------



## janger (Feb 25, 2008)

James_N said:


> Dave, did you try right-clicking on the red-colored folder, then selecting the "Synchronize Folder" option?


Yes but it wants me to locate it. If I changed the folder layout to have one folder for each day, that would be a lot of folders to click through. I think it would be easier to just make sure keywords are up to date, create a new catalog and import the images where I could change the folder layout. Then remake the collections. That would be much less time consuming than tracking down folders.

But for now I'm just going to start from scratch and heed the warnings I mentioned in my previous post. Until Adobe gives us the ability to insert path delimiters in the rename templates that is


----------



## James_N (Feb 25, 2008)

There's one gotcha.  If you reimport your files after writing the metadata to them, when you go to the Develop Module you will have two snapshots under History...showing you've imported the same files twice.  Its not a big deal but if you're as anal as I am about having a pristine catalog it becomes annoying to see.  There was no way to automatically delete the history listing so I had to do it manually for thousands of photos.

Now that I think about it, I think that only happens when you write metadata to files, remove the files from a catalog and then reimport them back into the same catalog.  Since you're creating a totally new catalog you should be fine.

I had a lot of problems like this when I initially started using Lightroom; at least you were smart enough to use a test catalog and not your "real" images.


----------



## gfisch (Feb 27, 2008)

Ok - read the thread but I am stuck.
In previous version of Lightroom you could
a) reorganise folders within LR
b) reorganize them in Finder too

Then there was a command something like "reorganize folder structure". After some LR work the changed Finder folder structure was reflected in LR as well.

NOW - I have created a 2''8 folder and '1, '2 a.s.o folders in Finder and cannot get this appear in LR. I tried to synchronize - nothing.

Whats the trick. Thank you.

gfisch


----------



## janger (Feb 24, 2008)

I've only been using LR for a couple of days and like it on the most part. However there's one thing I can't work out and that's how to reorganize my folder hierarchy.

When I set up my first catalog I just imported the photos into a single folder. Now I would like to reorganize them into "dated" folders like can be done when first importing from disk. It's possible to write metadata to the files, create a new catalog and import the photos. But although keywords etc are kept, collections are lost. And using "Import from catalog" doesn't allow a new folder hierarchy to be set.

While trying to work this out I thought what's really needed is to allow path delimiters ("\") to be inserted in the "Rename photos" dialog templates. I tried several ways to do this but it doesn't seem to work.

So is there a way to do this or am I stuck?


----------



## Victoria Bampton (Feb 27, 2008)

You want to relocate missing images or folders gfisch.  

Are the folders red?  If so, right click on each one (or the highest level you can) and choose Locate Missing Folder.  If the folders still exist, it won't have lost them, but there will probably be question marks on the thumbnails - click on the question mark to relocate and it should catch up with you.

You may find restarting LR helps it find other files in the same folder too.


----------



## janger (Feb 27, 2008)

Well I've downloaded and looked at the current Lightroom SDK, and as yet it's really only designed to write export plugins. Once they add some functionality I think it will be possible to write "reorganizing" plugins fairly easily. Unfortunately it's another language for me to learn (LUA).

As for finding missing photos, I don't understand why they can't make this more automatic. Looking at the XMP data there is a 32-byte field which I assume is an MD5 hash or similar. Since this value would probably also be in the catalog itself, it's just a matter of giving LR a top level folder to begin searching and compare the hashes, with an option to "Add folders to Folder Pane which contain found photos". 

BTW, I did some tests of stripping XMP data from my photos. All I can say is: do NOT use jStrip for this on photos already in a catalog! LR refuses to write metadata to them afterwards. It must remove placeholders that LR expect to be there or something. ExifTool works fine however.


----------

