# Colour Profile(s) esp. for slides



## DMartin (Jan 20, 2019)

I've used LR at a low level for some time, but now have masses of old 35mm slides (scanned) to handle. Most exhibit green/blue casts which is expected.  So I need an efficient workflow to get these into a usable condition.   A few may be worth manual edits, but not many, given the quantity. 
Is a 'colour profile' what I need?   If so any suggestions on how to make / find / buy suitable profile(s) would be appreciated.


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## LouieSherwin (Jan 20, 2019)

It is possible to get a profile made for your scanner. It requires a specially created target that you scan and then send the output to service that will then create a profile that you can then apply to the scanned images.  The targets are rare these days and not cheap.

The highest quality targets are still made by HutchColor.com and can be purchased from Chromix.com.

-louie


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## DMartin (Jan 20, 2019)

I understand re scanner profile, but I think the scanner is fairly 'neutral' compared to the green/blue casts which (I understand) are due to both the age and type of slide that I'm scanning.
So I see that Adobe's colour profiles are like "classic" and "vintage" etc ... to some extent trying to make digital images look old.  I have exactly the opposite need: want to make old images look good!   You'd think Adobe might provide such a profile ?  What am I missing?


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## Rob_Cullen (Jan 20, 2019)

It could be worth trying to make your own profiles. Once you know the method it becomes easy. I created profiles to invert color negatives.
Open a sample image in Adobe Camera Raw, make your adjustments to correct and improve color, etc, then create a profile. You may need to make several for different color casts, etc.-
Details can be found in the _Enhanced Profiles.pdf_  from-
http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/lightroom/profile-sdk/ACR_and_Lightroom_Profile_SDK.zip

And some more tuts-
LUTs to Lightroom – Lightroom Solutions
How To Make Your Own Lightroom and Photoshop Profiles LUTs - Matt Kloskowski


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## Umberto Cocca (Jan 21, 2019)

I have never used slides nor scanned them... Thinking more on LR, isn't it something that could be easily corrected through the white balance sliders? If so, and assuming a consistent shift, you could easily sync setting across slides. 

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## LouieSherwin (Jan 21, 2019)

@DMartin, you could try the ideas suggested by @I-See-Light. They may be sufficient for your needs. 

Do keep in mind that an input device profile is completely different from the "film look" profiles. It is also a completely separate issue from color fading on the original slide or film. 

Creating a device input profile requires taking a known set of colors from a scan target, scanning them with the device to be profiled. Then by comparing the actual values to the expected values  the profile software is able to create a map (ICC input profile) for how to interpret the raw values produced by the scanner into the colors we expect to see. This is the only way to actually get to a "netural" scan. 

Are you carefully examining the slides with a good loupe on a high quality light box? How do they look compared to the scanned image on your monitor? This will be a good clue for how "netural" your scanner really is. 

I did find some more reasonably priced scanner targets here  IT 8.7 Scanner Calibration Targets that could be useful. I don't know  what scanning software you are using but VueScan apparently can make scanner input profiles.  VueScan also offers some options for handling fading as part of the scanning.

-louie


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## LouieSherwin (Jan 21, 2019)

Umberto Cocca said:


> I have never used slides nor scanned them... Thinking more on LR, isn't it something that could be easily corrected through the white balance sliders? If so, and assuming a consistent shift, you could easily sync setting across slides.
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk



Adjusting color temperature is really not the same thing. It and all the adjustments in Lightroom depend on a good quality input profile for our cameras. We don't think about this much but this is huge part of what Adobe provides in Lightroom and Adobe Camera Raw, really good quality input profiles for the camera sensors. 

So while adjusting color temp to try to remove color casts intrinsic to specific scanner or to to correct fading of the pigment in the film might make some improvements it could just as easily cause problems. While it may be good enough for your needs it is not the best tool to use. 

-louie


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## Umberto Cocca (Jan 22, 2019)

LouieSherwin said:


> Adjusting color temperature is really not the same thing. It and all the adjustments in Lightroom depend on a good quality input profile for our cameras. We don't think about this much but this is huge part of what Adobe provides in Lightroom and Adobe Camera Raw, really good quality input profiles for the camera sensors.
> 
> So while adjusting color temp to try to remove color casts intrinsic to specific scanner or to to correct fading of the pigment in the film might make some improvements it could just as easily cause problems. While it may be good enough for your needs it is not the best tool to use.
> 
> -louie


Thanks for the explanation Louie, I always read your posts related to color management with fascination. To me you are a very valuable member of this community! 

Umberto

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## Conrad Chavez (Jan 22, 2019)

DMartin said:


> Most exhibit green/blue casts which is expected.  So I need an efficient workflow to get these into a usable condition.   A few may be worth manual edits, but not many, given the quantity. Is a 'colour profile' what I need?


Whether a profile is the right answer can depend on where the casts are coming from. A profile is the most useful when the color casts are coming from the device, like if the scanner itself is not rendering balanced colors. A profile can also be useful for very common overall casts, such as daylight slide film exposed indoor lighting.

But Lightroom has other ways to address corrections for bulk scans, and you should consider those in case they are better for the job at hand. The Profiles feature was already mentioned, but you might not have to go that far. If the color cast can be easily fixed with the Develop module controls, use the quicker Presets feature instead. Fix one slide scan, and save those settings using the Preset panel on the left side of the Develop module. Then select any number of scans that need the same correction, and apply the preset, and you've instantly corrected multiple scans. The nice thing about presets is that it's fast and easy to create any number of variations of them as color casts shift across different rolls or ranges of frames.

That last sentence, by the way, should help you figure out which solution you should use.  If the color cast is the same no matter what roll of slides you scan, then maybe you need a profile for the scanner. But if the color cast varies with the roll, film type, or even within the same roll, a profile can't fix all those variations and you should try making Presets as needed for each case. Or, if the cast is especially challenging, spend a little more time making a User Profile (not a formal scanner profile) as I-See-Light described. So be aware that you have all those options: Presets and User Profiles as well as a scanner profile.

Also pay close attention to what kind of cast you are looking at. If it's completely uniform, it could just be a simple white balance adjustment. But if the cast is different in the highlights and shadows, then you are looking at an adjustment using individual RGB tone curves or Split Toning. And if the cast actually changes across a slide, like increasingly blue toward the edges, now you're looking at applying a gradient local adjustment correction. All of those are Develop settings that can be saved as part of a preset and applied to scans in bulk to save time.


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## DMartin (Jan 23, 2019)

I-See-Light said:


> It could be worth trying to make your own profiles. Once you know the method it becomes easy. I created profiles to invert color negatives.
> Open a sample image in Adobe Camera Raw, make your adjustments to correct and improve color, etc, then create a profile. You may need to make several for different color casts, etc.-
> Details can be found in the _Enhanced Profiles.pdf_  from-
> http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/lightroom/profile-sdk/ACR_and_Lightroom_Profile_SDK.zip
> ...



"Adobe Camera Raw" seems to imply it needs RAW images, whereas my scans are all JPG.
Besides I can't see where to install Adobe Camera Raw from - it not on the Creative Cloud apps list.
And do I need to install it since I already have Lightroom?
I'd like to follow this up, but Adobe doesn't seem to have a joined-up and understandable process.


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## Rob_Cullen (Jan 23, 2019)

Hi,
_"Adobe Camera Raw" seems to imply it needs RAW images, whereas my scans are all JPG. _
It is possible to make a Profile from a JPG but you would need some 'work-arounds'-
Adobe Camera Raw is 'part' of the Photoshop install, so if you do not have Photoshop installed you will not have ACR, it installs automatically with Photoshop.
(and yes, Lightroom is a 'raw editor' but it does not have the capability to create a profile as does ACR.)
To follow the 'Profile' workflow you would need Photoshop/ACR installed and open a JPG file in ACR.

For simplicity you might be best to stick with Lightroom, edit some images to the best possible, and make Presets in Lr. Make full use of Tone Curves, the HSL panel, as well as the Basic panel adjustments. As Conrad suggests in Post#9- you may need a Preset for different film.


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