# Guided align after rotation



## jonnio (Jun 24, 2018)

Hi, I have an issue with using the guided transform tool after rotating within the crop tool.
It seems to make sense to get my pictures level by rotating and then going to the transform section to do my guided align (buildings perspective correction etc). But using the guided align button always resets my rotation??
Am I missing something? 
Thanks Jon


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## Johan Elzenga (Jun 24, 2018)

Yes, you are indeed. Because Guided Upright works on horizontal lines as well as vertical lines (you can use both in the same image), it makes sense that any rotation is reset first.


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## BarrySchwartz (Jun 24, 2018)

Also, to some degree this is a matter of perception.  As a professional architectural photographer I use this tool often, and depending on the angle you were facing when you shot the image, it may not look correct if everything - particularly horizontal lines - is 90 degrees straight.  Sometimes human-made structures look better when the result is not "accurate".  So, one-point perspective (standing right in front) typically looks fine with everything at 90 degrees, but  being off to the side even a little bit means the horizontals should not always be parallel to look OK.


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## jonnio (Jun 24, 2018)

JohanElzenga said:


> Yes, you are indeed. Because Guided Upright works on horizontal lines as well as vertical lines (you can use both in the same image), it makes sense that any rotation is reset first.


Thanks Ill try using both and see what happens. Jon


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## jonnio (Jun 24, 2018)

BarrySchwartz said:


> Also, to some degree this is a matter of perception.  As a professional architectural photographer I use this tool often, and depending on the angle you were facing when you shot the image, it may not look correct if everything - particularly horizontal lines - is 90 degrees straight.  Sometimes human-made structures look better when the result is not "accurate".  So, one-point perspective (standing right in front) typically looks fine with everything at 90 degrees, but  being off to the side even a little bit means the horizontals should not always be parallel to look OK.


Thanks yes I see what you mean, Im rarley directly in front of the subject. I knew my camera was not level when I took the shot so I figured it best to rotate the image first and then try and correct at least some of the perspective distortion from this point onwards. The lens was at 12mm so lots of distortion.


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## BarrySchwartz (Jun 27, 2018)

Having shot with a 12 mm lens, it can be pretty tricky.  The physics of light really come into play with a lens that wide, and depending on the circumstances, can be insurmountable - depending, of course, on taste.  My general experience, if you're trying to come up with a "realistic" image with a super-wide lens, is it's better to be back a ways from the subject, and looking straight at it (1-point perspective).  There are things you can do in Photoshop that are not available in Lightroom, however, sometimes there's only so much you can do to approach where you would like to be.


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## Gnits (Jun 27, 2018)

I have a panning clamp above the ballhead. When I level this, I can rotate the camera and the camera stays perfectly level. This means all vertical lines stay vertical.  I now have to decide what lens I need to use to cover the subject. In many cases I may have to stitch several vertical shots to get my subject in the frame. My preferred focal length is 50 mm which gives me the most natural looking perspective.  

I agree, in post processing, having a slight inward lean looks more natural.  Lr or Ps will take a click or 2. With my capture technique above I can concentrate on post processing the tones, colours, composition, but not spend a lot of time trying to deal with the geometry. If I am forced to point the camera up or down then at least the perspective tools in Lr/Ps gives an opportunity to save the image.


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## jonnio (Jun 29, 2018)

BarrySchwartz said:


> Having shot with a 12 mm lens, it can be pretty tricky.  The physics of light really come into play with a lens that wide, and depending on the circumstances, can be insurmountable - depending, of course, on taste.  My general experience, if you're trying to come up with a "realistic" image with a super-wide lens, is it's better to be back a ways from the subject, and looking straight at it (1-point perspective).  There are things you can do in Photoshop that are not available in Lightroom, however, sometimes there's only so much you can do to approach where you would like to be.


Thanks for your reply, yes I think using 12mm is making it a lot harder to frame any subject and expect to be able to correct everything in post perfectly. Although I have now discovered that the guided correction in lightroom can be used twice, one for verticals and then for the horizontals which seems to get good results for the "standing straight in front" pictures.


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## jonnio (Jun 29, 2018)

Gnits said:


> I have a panning clamp above the ballhead. When I level this, I can rotate the camera and the camera stays perfectly level. This means all vertical lines stay vertical.  I now have to decide what lens I need to use to cover the subject. In many cases I may have to stitch several vertical shots to get my subject in the frame. My preferred focal length is 50 mm which gives me the most natural looking perspective.
> 
> I agree, in post processing, having a slight inward lean looks more natural.  Lr or Ps will take a click or 2. With my capture technique above I can concentrate on post processing the tones, colours, composition, but not spend a lot of time trying to deal with the geometry. If I am forced to point the camera up or down then at least the perspective tools in Lr/Ps gives an opportunity to save the image.


Thats a good idea! Have you a link for a panning clamp? I could try it with my 40mm, thanks


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## Gnits (Jun 29, 2018)

I will post some links and snaps of my setup shortly. 

Most tripod heads have the pano adjustment under the ballhead.  This will only work if your tripod is perfectly level, better luck winning the lottery.  As soon as you rotate the head you lose the level platform for your camera snd now verical lines are no longer verticle. 

With the panning clamp on top of the ballhead , you use the flexibility of the ball head to get the camera level.  Now you can rotate the camera at will and it always stays level.


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## Gnits (Jun 29, 2018)

These are quick grab shots with an iPhone.

Sorry about the size of the pics.

The first is my light travel kit.  Arca Swiss P0 head, with cheap clamp and Gitzo traveller. The head is tiny, but handles a fair load. Many ingenious features. The pano head is built in and can be tightened and released with the little silver knob on the side with the min of effort. Seriously well engineered piece of kit.  I had a Really Right Stuff snap clamp on this but replaced it with a cheapo screw clamp from ebay.







The second is my heavy duty kit.

1. This is a RRS pano head with large screw clamps.  I was initially enamoured by RSS snap clamps, but now prefer a big screw clamp.  I place my camera on the head, so the lens is over the screw, so is out of the way, yet convenient for practical use.
PC-PRO Quick-Release Clamp

2. BH40 Head
3. Gitzo Systematic Tripod





A quick search of amazon will reveal a whole world of alternative brands and options... for example this pano /clamp combo.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SUNWAYFOTO...71171&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=Andoer+pano+clamp


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## jonnio (Jun 30, 2018)

Gnits said:


> These are quick grab shots with an iPhone.
> 
> Sorry about the size of the pics.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this information.
Id forgotten Id seen these before. Think Ill need a bigger tripod than the one I have to make the most of this set up.
Do you ever use the bracket for portrait shooting? 
Thanks Jon


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