# Colorspace Issue between LR & CS3



## hammer88 (Feb 20, 2008)

Hi everyone,

First post on LR Forums.  I did some browsing & searching through the forum and didn't find an exact answer so here goes.  I noticed that images look different to me in Lightroom versus my CS3.  So I guess reading this forum, I've learned that LR uses ProPhotoRGB and I'm guessing my CS3 is not using it. 

So my question is what should I do to resolve this difference?  Can I make my CS3 use the same colorspace?  I noticed that the colorspace in my CS3 is more like what I would see on the web.

If I export a image out of LR and specify the sRGB colorspace, will it look the same as it does in LR or will it be completely different?  I just don't want to make adjustments in LR that don't resemble what they would look like outside of the LR.

Thanks for any help.


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## Victoria Bampton (Feb 20, 2008)

Welcome to the forum hammer88.

Would you like to put your system specs in your signature, as it helps give specific advise.

So are you noticing this problem on exported images or while using Edit with... or both?

You want your Photoshop Colour Settings to match your LR space - or vice versa.

Pictures are worth a thousand words so:

Photoshop's colour settings






Edit with settings (in LR preferences)





Export settings (in LR Export dialog)





Which space you edit in is up to you (that's a whole nother discussion!) but try to keep them the same.

If you tick the Photoshop colour settings marked in blue, it'll warn you if you ever mismatch and ask you what to you.


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## hammer88 (Feb 20, 2008)

AWESOME!!!! CAN'T WAIT TO TRY THIS WHEN I GET HOME. I will post my specs as well when I get home.  I was referring to the difference in colors when I was viewing pictures.

So just to clarify one of my dilemmas.  I had this indoor evening condo shot (no attachment because i'm at work).  When I viewed in LR it looked nicer than in CS3.  If I had properly exported the image out of LR specifying the sRGB colorspace, would it then look the same as it did in LR when I view it in a web browser?  I didn't know how to do this at the time, so I just made some edits in CS3 and shared it.


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## Victoria Bampton (Feb 20, 2008)

Yes, it should look exactly the same in CS3 as it did in LR - and the most likely reason it didn't is the colour profiles.  If not, we start looking at corrupted monitor profiles and the suchlike.


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## hammer88 (Feb 21, 2008)

Great!  All done!  I attached screenshots of my settings.  My LR was previously sending edits to CS3 in proPhotoRGB while my CS3 settings were sRGB.  Why didn't I notice this earlier... gosh! :cheesy:

The "Additional External Editor" only matters if I use something other than CS3, right?  If that's true then it's not much of an issue for me since I'm only using Adobe...

Am i losing anything by using sRGB ovre proPhotoRGB? or should I use proPhotoRGB in both CS3 & LR and just make sure I export to sRGB?

View attachment 84

View attachment 85


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## Kiwigeoff (Feb 21, 2008)

hammer88 said:


> Great!  All done!  I attached screenshots of my settings.  My LR was previously sending edits to CS3 in proPhotoRGB while my CS3 settings were sRGB.  Why didn't I notice this earlier... gosh! :cheesy:
> 
> The "Additional External Editor" only matters if I use something other than CS3, right?  If that's true then it's not much of an issue for me since I'm only using Adobe...
> 
> ...


Can take some thinking to figure it all out !!
Now for me I use prophoto in LR and PS. This is so I am working with the widest space available, when I want to put on the web or send out to print etc, I convert to sRGB as a last step. You will probably get lots of  differing responses though!!:lol::lol:


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## Mick Seymour (Feb 21, 2008)

Victoria Bampton;85'2 said:
			
		

> Pictures are worth a thousand words so:



Perfect Victoria. If you've time, your post deserves to be in Tricks and Tips.


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## Victoria Bampton (Feb 21, 2008)

Your wish is my command Mick!


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## chris02 (Feb 21, 2008)

Victoria Bampton;85'2 said:
			
		

> Welcome to the forum hammer88.
> 
> Would you like to put your system specs in your signature, as it helps give specific advise.
> 
> ...



Hi Victoria

I think I am going mad, I cant find the dialogue box in windows cs3 to set the colour setting, please help.

Chris


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## Kiwigeoff (Feb 21, 2008)

It's in the "Edit" drop down menu or on a Mac shift+cmd+k


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## chris02 (Feb 21, 2008)

Many thanks Geoff, brain not working.

I have set both LR and PS to Prophoto and ticked all the  Colour Management boxes, problem is that  when I select edit a photo in  PS from LR  and when it opens in PS I then say open in Pro photo it looks a lot pinker than the version in LR, please help.


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## Kiwigeoff (Feb 21, 2008)

chris'2 said:


> Many thanks Geoff, brain not working.
> 
> I have set both LR and PS to Prophoto and ticked all the  Colour Management boxes, problem is that  when I select edit a photo in  PS from LR  and when it opens in PS I then say open in Pro photo it looks a lot pinker than the version in LR, please help.



You have calibrated your monitor haven't you????


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## chris02 (Feb 21, 2008)

Sure have Huey Pro, just tried setting both LR and PS to Abobe RGB 1998 and now there photos look almost the same. What are the negatives of leaving it set to Abobe?


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## Kiwigeoff (Feb 21, 2008)

chris'2 said:


> Sure have Huey Pro, just tried setting both LR and PS to Abobe RGB 1998 and now there photos look almost the same. What are the negatives of leaving it set to Abobe?



How do you set LR to AdobeRGB? I presume that you mean for export and editing though.
Now here is the trick part: while LR processes file in it's version of prophotoRGB called "melissa" the previews, which are what we see, are generally Adobe RGB unless you have large and high quality selected. Slightly confusing but that is how it is as of today. That would explain why they "look" the same when PS is set to AdobeRGB. Practical differences in use, not a lot.


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## chris02 (Feb 21, 2008)

Yes, right click in LR and edit with LR adjustments, also previews are set to medium. 

I will play some more with a range of shots to see what happens.
Many thanks.

PS England to draw the series at the weekend


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## hammer88 (Feb 21, 2008)

actually... for chris (XP), i think it would be Edit->Color Settings


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## chris02 (Feb 21, 2008)

Hi Rich

Vista is the same, once I was pointed in the correct direction. Thought it would be in preferences!


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## billg71 (Feb 23, 2008)

On XP/CS3, it's Edit-Color Settings.


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## hammer88 (Mar 28, 2008)

Hate to bring this up again.. I thought I had it all fixed.  But maybe something changed?  I attached two images.  One is the export from Lightroom and one is a screen capture of how it looked in Lightroom.  

I exported to JPEG with the settings sRGB 8bit @ 24' pixels per inch.  Is this just the loss of tonal depth going from 16 bit to 8 bit?  The issue actually came up in CS3 as well even thought I had the colorspaces matching up as detailed in the beginning of this thread.  any thoughts?  

I can forward the original file if that helps.


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## Brad Snyder (Mar 28, 2008)

Rich, you say
a) screen cap from LR
b) exported jpg

What app is displaying the jpg? Is it color managed?

(BTW, LR on left, jpg on right?)


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## hammer88 (Mar 28, 2008)

yes... LR on left (more yellow) and LR export (more blue).

the LR is a screen capture pasted into CS3 & cropped.

the jpg is just the exact export coming out of LR.  it displays that way in CS3 or any other jpg viewer...


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 28, 2008)

That's not an 8bit issue I don't think.  I'm wondering how accurate the screen capture software is though.

So if the LR export looks the same in every program, colour managed or not, then it doesn't sound like a colour mismatch.  

If you haven't changed settings anywhere else, try recalibrating your monitor, as LR uses the profile slightly differently than most.


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## hammer88 (Mar 28, 2008)

victoria.. i didn't use anything special to screen capture.. just alt-printscreen.  i'm at work now on a different pc and i'm still seeing the difference.  so i don't think it's the way my monitor is interpreting the jpg.  unless LR is using some color calibration on my local system to export.  

the funny thing is... when i take the image w/ LR adjustments and send it to CS3 for editing in Lightroom, it actually looks like the LR image (yellow tones) for a split second on open and then something seems to get applied and then poof.. it's got blue tints...


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 28, 2008)

Something's really odd here Rich.  You should be able to see exactly the same thing in LR as the resulting jpeg.

So let me get this the right way round - when you're seeing it in LR, it's the yellow version or the blue version?  And the exported one is the opposite?


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 28, 2008)

Ok, one other thing I've just spotted - neither of the attached files has a colour space tag.  Had you done a save for web before posting?  Or have you got 'minimize embedded metadata' ticked in the export dialog?


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## hammer88 (Feb 20, 2008)

Hi everyone,

First post on LR Forums.  I did some browsing & searching through the forum and didn't find an exact answer so here goes.  I noticed that images look different to me in Lightroom versus my CS3.  So I guess reading this forum, I've learned that LR uses ProPhotoRGB and I'm guessing my CS3 is not using it. 

So my question is what should I do to resolve this difference?  Can I make my CS3 use the same colorspace?  I noticed that the colorspace in my CS3 is more like what I would see on the web.

If I export a image out of LR and specify the sRGB colorspace, will it look the same as it does in LR or will it be completely different?  I just don't want to make adjustments in LR that don't resemble what they would look like outside of the LR.

Thanks for any help.


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## hammer88 (Mar 28, 2008)

i'll have to double check the setting... the yellow one (more natural to me) is the LR screen captured image.  the blue toned image is the export from LR.  i named the files accordingly.  the export i can make sure has the colorspace tagged in it.  

the screen capture i pasted into CS3.  what's the best way to make sure the colorspace tag is applied on save?  i forget if i was using the save for web function.


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## Brad Snyder (Mar 28, 2008)

The mish-mash of applications (way too many variables) was what I was trying to get to. But, then it was bed-time. 
thanks for picking up the slack Victoria.


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 28, 2008)

No worries Brad.  I think this is definitely going to take combined brains!!!

At this point I'm most interested in the LR export being colour space tagged to confirm that it's definitely not getting confused on colour spaces, so don't tick 'minimize metadata' in the export dialog.

It's tough to colour match a screenshot as Windows isn't particularly helpful on colour management.  Easiest solution I guess - open the screenshot file in PS, convert from whatever-it-thinks-it's-in to sRGB, and then float that PS window over LR and check they still match - and then upload here.


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## hammer88 (Mar 28, 2008)

okay.. here we go... i think i did do a "save for web" last night because of the forum's attachment size limit.  both of these photos should now be tagged with the metadata.

I made sure the screen capture was done in a RGB workspace and when i saved it as a jpg it did it as sRGB colorspace.  I tried what you said to open the screen capture jpeg in LR to make sure they don't look the same... Sure enough, they don't.  The LR interpretation of the jpeg was yellower... 

Okay... the left one should be filename DSC_'227_LR_screencapture.jpg (the one that is the yellower of the two and the one i like more).  the one on the right should be filename DSC_'227_Export.jpg and that is the directly exported from LR with the sRGB colorspace selected.

If there's anymore information i can provide, please let me know...


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## hammer88 (Mar 28, 2008)

just for completeness, i included my current settings...


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## Brad Snyder (Mar 28, 2008)

Rich, I'm not seeing any metadata at all in those two


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## hammer88 (Mar 28, 2008)

is something getting altered when i attach them?  i can right click, go to properties and see all the data for these files that are on my local disk...

is there a specific tag(s) that i can post the info for?


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## Brad Snyder (Mar 28, 2008)

OK try this.

Is the source file RAW? (I'm not sure it makes a diff, just trying to figure out where we are.)

Get it the way you want it in LR, the warmer yellower version.
Export to sRGB JPEG 1''% to a new filename.
Import the 'exported' jpeg into the same folder with the original.

Use Compare View (C) . (or, Library Menu > View > Compare).

Those two should be identical. Get a screen shot of that side by side if you can.


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## hammer88 (Mar 28, 2008)

Thanks for the quick responses Brad!!  Here it is side by side.  Amazingly the export does not look the same as the file when I import it back into LR... 

The image on the right is the export.


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## hammer88 (Mar 28, 2008)

I attached my export settings as well...


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## Brad Snyder (Mar 28, 2008)

That's 'like, totally whack, dood!'  

I don't understand that at all.  I certainly take your word that the compares are different, but something may have gone on with your u/l, the attachment doesn't seem to be there.


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## hammer88 (Mar 28, 2008)

doh.. it's the upload limit that snagged me again... here it is...



			
				Brad Snyder;1151' said:
			
		

> That's 'like, totally whack, dood!'
> 
> I don't understand that at all.  I certainly take your word that the compares are different, but something may have gone on with your u/l, the attachment doesn't seem to be there.


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## DonRicklin (Mar 28, 2008)

THey look identical to me! Except on is slightly smaller, on the left.

Don


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## hammer88 (Mar 28, 2008)

it's very close.. but the export (right) is slightly yellower.  not as obvious as the blue vs yellow tinted diff in the other attachments.  the size diff is just because of export size.



DonRicklin said:


> THey look identical to me! Except on is slightly smaller, on the left.
> 
> Don


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 28, 2008)

Ok, 2 more thoughts then... there's not as big a difference as I was expecting, so that's a good start.

Now what happens if you export to ProPhotoRGB and import that back into LR (import preset set to None, obviously!)

And how close are those tones to clipping if you look at them in Photoshop?  That could be a large colour space to small colour space issue if the difference isn't as great.


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## hammer88 (Mar 28, 2008)

Here you go... the proRGB export brought back into LR w/ the compare screen capture.  there may be a diff, but it's hard for me to see... 

any thoughts as to why photoshop is seeing it so differently?



Victoria Bampton said:


> Ok, 2 more thoughts then... there's not as big a difference as I was expecting, so that's a good start.
> 
> Now what happens if you export to ProPhotoRGB and import that back into LR (import preset set to None, obviously!)
> 
> And how close are those tones to clipping if you look at them in Photoshop?  That could be a large colour space to small colour space issue if the difference isn't as great.


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 28, 2008)

Ok, good.  We're narrowing it down.

So what happens if you open the ProPhoto export in PS?  Still a completely different colour, or the same?

If that ProPhoto exported file looks different in PS as it does in LR, we need to be looking seriously at your monitor profile.  At that point, I'd be tempted to remove your monitor profile, restart the computer to make doubly-sure that it's gone, and recalibrate.

If it looks the same.... hmmm, well, we'll deal with that if it happens!


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## hammer88 (Mar 28, 2008)

okay... so i opened the export in cs3.  it prompts me to pick the colorspace because the embedded prophotoRGB is inconsistent w/ the sRGB defined in the settings (thanks to your instructions for setting that up).

they both (proRGB or sRGB) gave the image a blue tint.  so i guess it's time to discard the profile, eh?  please show me the way!!!!  :cheesy::cheesy:


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 28, 2008)

It's a good long while since I was last working seriously on Windows Rich, so I'm going from a foggy memory....

It's something along the lines of...
Go to start > control panel > display > the last tab I think (settings?) > press the advanced button... then it gets much foggier, but you need to go looking for the color management section, select the current profile and hit remove.  I'd then restart the computer personally, just to make sure it's cleared.  Then recalibrate as normal.  And hope for the best.

Hopefully Brad will be along with some slightly more useful Windows instructions!  :roll:


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 29, 2008)

Better still, sensible instructions....!!!  http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb4'2376


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## hammer88 (Mar 29, 2008)

what's recalibrate "as normal"?   do i need some fancy external calibration tools?... ignore me for now... working through the link u posted.  we crossed in the bits... hehe.


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## hammer88 (Mar 29, 2008)

we're getting so close i can taste the colors!!!!  okay... so i followed that AWESOME link you sent and set my monitor color profile to sRGB (added it in as the article states)... now that i think of it, i think CS3 complained that my monitor profile was corrupt when i installed it way back when.  

so after a change in profile, the images look fine because everything is in the sRGB space.  BUT.. big BUT... what will other people see.  I went and looked back at my attachments on this thread and they look for the most part fine.. no more heavy blue tint.  But on my ibm x6' laptop here... they still look bluish.  

so... do i now need to grab a clean dell 2''5fpw default profile for everything to be good good?


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## hammer88 (Mar 29, 2008)

here's the test i guess... this was exported after the profile...


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## DonRicklin (Mar 29, 2008)

A lovely shot, now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Don


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## hammer88 (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks Don for the verification.  Victoria & Brad & Don... 

THANK YOU GUYS SOOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!  
YOU GUYS RULE!!!!​
Please let me know what you think about the default profile.  

Hopefully this thread will keep somebody else from pulling out their hairs.   If nothing else, I've spammed this forum with my family pic! :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## hammer88 (Feb 20, 2008)

Hi everyone,

First post on LR Forums.  I did some browsing & searching through the forum and didn't find an exact answer so here goes.  I noticed that images look different to me in Lightroom versus my CS3.  So I guess reading this forum, I've learned that LR uses ProPhotoRGB and I'm guessing my CS3 is not using it. 

So my question is what should I do to resolve this difference?  Can I make my CS3 use the same colorspace?  I noticed that the colorspace in my CS3 is more like what I would see on the web.

If I export a image out of LR and specify the sRGB colorspace, will it look the same as it does in LR or will it be completely different?  I just don't want to make adjustments in LR that don't resemble what they would look like outside of the LR.

Thanks for any help.


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 29, 2008)

Brilliant Rich, I'm so pleased you've got it sorted!!!!  Sorry I had to go to bed and leave you talking to yourself!  LOL


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## Peter 13 (Mar 29, 2008)

hammer88 said:


> we're getting so close i can taste the colors!!!! okay... so i followed that AWESOME link you sent and set my monitor color profile to sRGB (added it in as the article states)... now that i think of it, i think CS3 complained that my monitor profile was corrupt when i installed it way back when.


I would not call that an awesome link. It is the last line of defense if you have no idea what is going on. If you have a good monitor profile, you should use it. The link basically says - forget about monitor profiles.


> so after a change in profile, the images look fine because everything is in the sRGB space.


... except your monitor. It is supposed to be, but it is not. That is why monitor profiles are needed.


> BUT.. big BUT... what will other people see. I went and looked back at my attachments on this thread and they look for the most part fine.. no more heavy blue tint. But on my ibm x6' laptop here... they still look bluish.
> 
> so... do i now need to grab a clean dell 2''5fpw default profile for everything to be good good?


 
Yes, and better yet - calibrate your monitor. There are solutions for under $1''.


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## hammer88 (Mar 31, 2008)

Peter... thanks for the response.  That was exactly the answer I was hoping for.  I had a feeling just using the sRGB profile was a bit too simple.  

Do you have any recommendations on products under $1''?  Do they all require an external device?  Are there software only solutions?  Adobe Gamma I believe has been retired, right?


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## Brad Snyder (Mar 31, 2008)

Rich, there's a thread in equipment which addresses this, look here:

http://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/showthread.php?t=991

plus there's several other calibration threads there as well.

I'm not sure whether the <$1'' requirement is met.

You may want to end this topic and continue there, before we confuse everybody.


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## Peter 13 (Mar 31, 2008)

hammer88 said:


> Peter... thanks for the response. That was exactly the answer I was hoping for. I had a feeling just using the sRGB profile was a bit too simple.
> 
> Do you have any recommendations on products under $1''? Do they all require an external device? Are there software only solutions? Adobe Gamma I believe has been retired, right?


 
Spyder2 Express sells for $59.99 on amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B'''ES4PYU

They have a new version that costs more. If you decide to go with Spyder2, I will advise you to use their older software that uses the native white point of your monitor. Feel free to send me a "private message" if you need help when you buy it. 

Software only solutions cannot achieve the same result. This will be the best $6' spent for improving your photos. Not only they will look better on the screen - you will get better prints because you will know what correction to make.


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## larrye510 (Apr 7, 2008)

Hi -

  If I calibrate my monitor should I use the color space the calibration hardware created or the sRGB selection as you pointed out?


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## Victoria Bampton (Apr 7, 2008)

If you calibrate your monitor, you use that monitor profile at operating system level (in that display colour management dialog mentioned earlier) - BUT nowhere else.  You don't set it as a colour space in Photoshop or in Lightroom.


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## larrye510 (Apr 7, 2008)

Hi -

I thought LR process image in ProPhoto?   Does that matter when trying to sync LR with PS CS3?


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## Victoria Bampton (Apr 7, 2008)

Here's the details of the settings that need to match between PS and LR Larry http://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/showthread.php?t=1244


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## larrye510 (Apr 7, 2008)

Thanks so much - I will try that...

Do you know anything about my other post (if LR and PS CS3 and work together):   http://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/showthread.php?t=1775


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## Victoria Bampton (Apr 7, 2008)

I've just replied for you Larry.


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## larrye510 (Apr 8, 2008)

Hi Victoria:

 When trying to set my LR to sRGB - LR said 16-bit ProPhoto RGB is the recommended choice for best preserving color details from Lightroom.

When I click on sRGB like the document you posted - it says:   The sRGB color space cannot encompass the full range of colors available within Lightroom.

Any clue to what to do?    In PS I did select sRGB.


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## Victoria Bampton (Apr 8, 2008)

Whatever you do, do the same in both places, that's all.  And if you set PS to 'ask when opening' or 'preserve embedded profile' in that colour settings dialog, you won't have a problem.

As a guide, if you're outputting for web or screen, you'll want to use sRGB, otherwise the colours will look odd.  sRGB is a small colour space though, so 16 bit ProPhoto is a better choice for keeping all the detail when editing.

If it's any help, my settings are:
Lightroom Edit with - ProPhoto 16bit
Photoshop Working Space - ProPhoto - set to preserve embedded profile
Lightroom Export - for my 'best' copies, ProPhoto
Lightroom Export - for the web/email/screensaver - sRGB

Be aware, any files that are in ProPhoto space will look very odd when viewed in Windows Picture Viewer, a web browser, or anything else that isn't colour managed.


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## larrye510 (Apr 8, 2008)

The pictures I am editing are going to a pro lab for prints.


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## Victoria Bampton (Apr 8, 2008)

What does you Pro Lab ask you to send Larry?

I'd probably suggest you stick to ProPhoto throughout, and then export to whatever profile your lab wants when you're ready to send them.


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