# Raw and JPEG pairs - importing, working with and archiving



## Pollok Shields (Aug 26, 2015)

I've come from Aperture where raw and JPEG pairs were handled better than Lightroom - either that or I haven't worked it out yet...

Sometimes I shoot both raw and JPEG together, sometimes I just shoot raw. Sometimes when I shoot both I don't want to import the JPEGs into Lightroom

With LR set to keep the raw and JPEG pair together (I see one image in the grid) I don't know / can't work out how to edit / export either the raw or the JPEG file. Having the files separate is a pain because (as far as I can tell) metadata is only applied to the active file so you can end up with the raw and JPEG having different captions. You also use up twice as much screen space and get confused when trying to edit similar images!

With raw and JPEG set to be treated as separate photos I can't work out how to import the raw files only when I also have JPEGs in the same folder. Yes, I can uncheck the JPEG files but if you have a few hundred...

Any tips as to how I could make life easier for myself!?


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## tspear (Aug 26, 2015)

Yes, only shot in raw.
There are a bunch of threads on here dealing with JPEG and RAW.
Basically, the JPEG is some engineer at the camera company estimate of a series of presets which will give you the best image.
With some practice, you can build your own presets or manipulate the image even better in Lr. 
I started with dual images, mostly to see what the camera company did; and try and make the raw file better. Now, I only shot in raw.

Lastly, Lr can do so much more with the image from the raw data then from JPEG; that I no longer find it useful to consume the disk space with the jpeg images.

Tim


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## Pollok Shields (Aug 28, 2015)

Thanks for that Tim, if only you'd added a smilie after that first sentence 

If you can point out some threads which you think would be helpful that would be cool. I did have a look but didn't see anything.

Just shooting raw isn't really an option because sometimes I need to shoot JPEGs. That can be for various reasons including speed. When I shoot both I may or may not need to retain the JPEG along with the raw, thus my question about how to deal with this best.

By the way I found that if you know how your camera operates and have it set up correctly you can produce JPEGs from the camera which easily match and are often better that those created from raw files via Adobe Camera Raw. There's no sense in spending time trying (usually failing) to recreate in Lightroom what Nikon can already do. Yes there's a time and place where raw can be the only way to go, but for the times I have to shoot JPEG I'd like to find the best way to archive them in LR.

Funny thing happened yesterday. I shot raw and JPEG and decided to process the raws. I accidentally worked on the (small) JPEGS. Those included ISO 3200 files where the colour balance had to be shifted and the exposure brought up by a stop or so. Nobody noticed. Now that I know, I still can't see the difference...


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## DGStinner (Aug 28, 2015)

If you go to Lightroom-->Preferences, under the General tab, do you have "*Treat JPEG files next to raw files as separate photos*" checked or unchecked?


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## Pollok Shields (Aug 28, 2015)

DGStinner said:


> If you go to Lightroom-->Preferences, under the General tab, do you have "*Treat JPEG files next to raw files as separate photos*" checked or unchecked?



Unchecked at the moment. I know what you're going to suggest! That Preference seems only to apply on import. I guess it was checked while importing some pictures which are show as FileName.NEF+JPEG. For those images I can't later to look at the raw and JPEG side by side. I think one of my original questions was how can I import only the raw files from a folder containing (many hundreds) of raw and JPEG pairs?


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## clee01l (Aug 28, 2015)

Many of us develop our post processing skills by shooting RAW+JPEG for a while. As your skills improve, soon you will be able to exceed the post processing done in the camera to create the JPEG and in camera JPEGs will diminish in importance. It makes little sense to shoot 12-14 bit RAW color and throw away almost half of the color bits and dynamic range to end up with an 8 bit JPEG as your only record. 

If you select "Treat JPEGs next to RAW as Separate Photos" in preferences, you can work on both in LR. If unchecked, the JPEG is treated as a sidecar file and not accessible through LR.

I see that you have a Nikon.  I'm not sure which one, but with the last three Nikons that I have owned, I was able to create a Develop Preset applied at import that can mimic what the camera can produce and alleviate the need for the in camera JPEG. If I need a quick rendition of the images that I shoot, I can export my own JPEG from LR instead of a lossy 2nd generation based upon the baked in adjusted JPEG from the camera.


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## tspear (Aug 28, 2015)

Pollok Shields,

lol, which smile do you prefer?

Anyway, a couple of threads:
http://www.lightroomqueen.com/commu...ny-meaningful-benefit-in-taking-both-RAW-JPEG
http://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/showthread.php?25601-RAW-Processing-workflow-question

If you search for raw and jpeg you will get a long list. Those two threads where in the first two pages.

Tim


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## Pollok Shields (Aug 28, 2015)

clee01l said:


> If you select "Treat JPEGs next to RAW as Separate Photos" in preferences, you can work on both in LR. If unchecked, the JPEG is treated as a sidecar file and not accessible through LR.



Getting somewhere now... I have a picture FileName.NEF+JPEG. When adding metadata - captions, keywords and the like - Lightroom will update the XMP sidecar file and include that information in any JPEGs I export from the NEF. But it doesn't update the metadata in the JPEG. Which begs the question, why have raw+JPEG pairs if Lightroom refuses to let you do anything with the JPEG?

Lots of people are making assumptions about my post processing skills.  Yes, I know all about raw files and how to make presets. But just trust me that there are some people who sometimes need to move pictures quickly. Right now. Immediately. There's no time to spend even a minute fiddling with settings and sliders. And some people have their cameras set up so that they produce JPEGs which are every bit as good as a processed raw. Let me do that if I want and when I need. I'm happy for everyone else to be processing raw if that's what you need to do.


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## rob211 (Aug 28, 2015)

Pollok Shields said:


> Getting somewhere now... I have a picture FileName.NEF+JPEG. When adding metadata - captions, keywords and the like - Lightroom will update the XMP sidecar file and include that information in any JPEGs I export from the NEF. But it doesn't update the metadata in the JPEG. Which begs the question, why have raw+JPEG pairs if Lightroom refuses to let you do anything with the JPEG?
> 
> Lots of people are making assumptions about my post processing skills.  Yes, I know all about raw files and how to make presets. But just trust me that there are some people who sometimes need to move pictures quickly. Right now. Immediately. There's no time to spend even a minute fiddling with settings and sliders. And some people have their cameras set up so that they produce JPEGs which are every bit as good as a processed raw. Let me do that if I want and when I need. I'm happy for everyone else to be processing raw if that's what you need to do.


Conceptually, you never see a RAW. You see a preview, and Lr generates it's own. So the JPEG pair is sort of redundant from Lr's point of view. It does show you what the camera's on-board software wants you to see, which as already noted, can be useful. JPEGs are embedded in the RAW as well.

You are right: there is little point to importing the JPEGs as sidecars you can't do anything with. Which begs the question of why you wouldn't import them as separate files? which means you CAN do things with them. They are basically like bracketed shots, virtual copies, etc. so just like those you select more than one and apply metadata to all at once. If you don't need 'em for particular shots, just delete 'em.

I suspect that part of the problem is the really crappy and limited options available at import, and the fact you select the pairs option in prefs. Yuck. I use the separate file option because it's always easier to remove unnecessary JPEGs if they are IN Lr and shown separately than the other way 'round (but it can still be a huge pain to remove them in bulk, especially if you have edited the JPEG and not the RAW, or deleted the RAW). Another way to go is to just copy the different file types to folders with the Finder, and then use Lr to move them at import. That way you can ignore JPEGs in bulk without having to check and uncheck lots in the import module.

Also, if you have the pairs and wanna stack, the stacking differences between Lr and Aperture can be very different, which can be a big PITA for the former Aperture user.

And BTW, look at John Beardsworth's Syncomatic plugin. It can help with bulk copying of metadata and pairs of files. http://www.photographers-toolbox.com/products/jbeardsworth/syncomatic/index.php?sec=use


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## Ian.B (Aug 29, 2015)

when you understand LR better Pollok, you might consider making a few "look like jpegs" presets and then you only need to use raw which does make LR life a lot easier. So with a couple of clicks or even while importing your raw files will look similar to jpeg files off the camera. 

Just remember if you use a preset while importing the preset will be there next time you import if you don't turn it off. If you forget just use the reset button to go back the original raw file. 

I will leave it to those who really know to help you with your original question.  The LR knowledge of same on this forum is truly amazing. They make me look like I'm still in Kindergarten; I might get the pre-school next year :bluegrin:


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## fastbike (Aug 31, 2015)

Your out of camera jpg will be as good as your raw>LR if two things are true.
1: you only shoot when the conditions are " perfect"
2: your RAW processing skills could be improved

You can't ignore the much greater latitude inherent in the RAW file.


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## rob211 (Sep 1, 2015)

fastbike said:


> Your out of camera jpg will be as good as your raw>LR if two things are true.
> 1: you only shoot when the conditions are " perfect"
> 2: your RAW processing skills could be improved
> 
> You can't ignore the much greater latitude inherent in the RAW file.


That's generally true, but sometimes it's the format, not the image. Some of us on occasion need to use JPEGs even if RAW is capable of producing a "better" image in post processing. For example, in evidence collection JPEG+RAW is becoming pretty common, but RAW-only is kind of rare, both because it's harder to work with, and because there are then subjective elements introduced into the image quality that can muck things up. JPEGs, despite the fact that they too are some engineers choice of what looks accurate, are rather more common-ground. In this case, the "greater latitude" is a detriment, not a benefit.

So JPEG pairs are sometimes quite necessary, and the OP is right that they are rather a pain to import and deal with in Lr.


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