# Canon S100 Raw unwanted crop.



## siamak (Dec 21, 2015)

Recently, I was testing Capture One 9 and realized that my Canon S100 12mp actually captures raw more than 15+mp. Same image in LR or Mac preview or Xee crops to 4000x3000. However Sensor captures 4668x3247 and can be seen in Raw Photo Processor 64 or Capture Pro 9. I tried to change setting in LR to be able see all the raw image with no avail. Am I missing something or there is no way to see whole capture in LR. I am assuming maybe LR crops image based on what my camera metadata reports to it. It is strange that Xee and Preview does same thing. But jpg made from raw in Capture One RPP does creates whole image without crop!

I have not yet compared my Nikon nef files to see if this is unique to Canon S100.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Update: Checked the nef files and raw is same in all applications. So it seems this is a problem with Canon S100!


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 21, 2015)

Camera sensors are almost always somewhat bigger (in terms of megapixels) than what the manufacturer specifies as image size. The reason is that the edge pixels are normally used for other things, also because edge pixels cannot be 'demosaiced' with the same accuracy as pixels further to the middle. The difference may usually not be as big as with this camera, but it's normal. Lightroom will generate images with the same size as the manufacturer specifies. I don't think there is any way you can change that.


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## siamak (Dec 21, 2015)

JohanElzenga said:


> Camera sensors are almost always somewhat bigger (in terms of megapixels) than what the manufacturer specifies as image size. The reason is that the edge pixels are normally used for other things, also because edge pixels cannot be 'demosaiced' with the same accuracy as pixels further to the middle. The difference may usually not be as big as with this camera, but it's normal. Lightroom will generate images with the same size as the manufacturer specifies. I don't think there is any way you can change that.



Thank you for your reply. This is a substantial loss. I do not understand why the other programs can get this extra area but not LR,Preview, and Photoshop.
I was very excited when saw what has been missed.

For last few hours I was trying to chenge some of the Exif data in order to trick the LR to see it. Unfortunately I think unlike other application LR reads the set of data that is not changeable. 
:(


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## siamak (Dec 21, 2015)

just checked "Affinity Photo". This one too sees this extra pixels.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 21, 2015)

You can check every raw converter on the planet, but it won't change the fact that Lightroom doesn't.


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 21, 2015)

Canon's own specs say 4000x3000, so I'm guessing there's a reason Canon chose not to use the extra pixels, and Adobe is respecting that.


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## clee01l (Dec 21, 2015)

siamak said:


> ...in LR or Mac preview or Xee crops to 4000x3000. However Sensor captures 4668x3247 and can be seen in Raw Photo Processor 64 or Capture Pro 9.


Most cameras typically produce 3:2 aspect ratio or close to it.  The old VGA standard aspect video ratio was 4:3.  The current HD video ratio is 16:9.  Your camera default aspect ratio is 4:3 not the standard 3:2. Many P&S cameras offer several different aspect ratios to be set in the camera for the JPEG output.  I had a panasonic that did this.  It offered 4:3, 16:9 & 3:2.  Does your user manual describe this in camera setting?  All the in camera setting does is trim the extra pixels to output a JPEG that conforms to the aspect ratio setting in the camera. Of course, the sensor is still recording every pixel.

When you shoot RAW, there is a setting in the EXIF that specifies the position of the first pixel and the dimensions of the image "As Shot" determined by the settings in the camera.  In Develop, LR offers two aspect ratios for cropping. "As Shot" is the setting taken from the dimensions embedded in the EXIF.  "Original" is every pixel demosaic'd in the RAW conversion or by the camera.  For most camera this is an aspect ratio ~3:2 and the same number of pixels.   In the Develop module do you see the same 4000X3000 pixels when you switch between  "Original & "As Shot"?   LR made these changes to the Crop module to accommodate camera that allowed the setting of different aspect ratios in the camera.  

You realize of course that Canon advertises your P&S as a 12mp camera and the 4000X3000 pixel meets that specification even though they decided to use a 15.1mp sensor.  There reasoning for not including the edge pixels has to do with the distortion effects of the lucite lens being used.   While other RAW converters may deliver more pixels, none of the pixels on the edge meets with Canon's high standards for quality.  If you think about this for a bit you will realize that if Canon built this consumer camera with a 15.1mp sensor, they would certainly advertise it as a 15mp camera just for the marketing advantage.


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## siamak (Dec 22, 2015)

Victoria Bampton said:


> Canon's own specs say 4000x3000, so I'm guessing there's a reason Canon chose not to use the extra pixels, and Adobe is respecting that.



I thought I own my camera.


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## Hal P Anderson (Dec 22, 2015)

You do. You even own all your pixels. You'll need to convince Adobe that it's to their advantage to do the work needed to show them to you. There's an "Official Bug Report" link at the top of this page.

I suspect that the fix won't be an easy one. When LR builds an image from your camera, it applies the same lens correction algorithm that your Canon uses when it builds a jpeg. I'm sure that Canon (and therefore Adobe) is only looking at that 4000x3000 cropped area in the centre of the whole image. If we're to create an image that contains all of the pixels, what do we do to the pixels that are outside that area? We don't know how to correct the distortion there, and the lens could be doing really strange things out there if the designers were only aiming for good quality in the centre 12 million pixels.


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## Drdul (Dec 22, 2015)

This has been an issue ever since software correction of optical distortion was introduced in consumer cameras approximately 8 years ago. Adobe will likely never allow you to see all the pixels, as they work closely with manufacturers to support their proprietary raw formats. There are plenty of other raw converters that will give you access to the extra pixels if you want. Occasionally I don't frame a photo properly, and I use Iridient Developer (Mac only) to develop the raw image, save as PSD and bring into Lightroom.


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## siamak (Dec 22, 2015)

Drdul said:


> This has been an issue ever since software correction of optical distortion was introduced in consumer cameras approximately 8 years ago. Adobe will likely never allow you to see all the pixels, as they work closely with manufacturers to support their proprietary raw formats. There are plenty of other raw converters that will give you access to the extra pixels if you want. Occasionally I don't frame a photo properly, and I use Iridient Developer (Mac only) to develop the raw image, save as PSD and bring into Lightroom.



Thank you  Drdul for the info. I will check Iridient. RPP is hard to get use to. But it does excellent job.


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## Hoggy (Dec 24, 2015)

I also notice the extra area shown with both my Canon S100, as well as Canon G7X in Capture One.  Capture One will show the image without the built-in lens correction being done.  I notice it's mainly distortion around the frame or sometime even seeing the inside of the front lens opening.
So, not really missing much worthwhile from what I've noticed.  Still, I agree it would be nice if LR was also able to ignore the built-in lens profile just like Capture One can..  Even If for no other reason than curiosity about what actually got fully captured - but I could also see it being used for special creative effect reasons as well.  But I'm not holding my breath that it will get changed.


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 24, 2015)

I don't know if it would work, but Adobe did develop the "Recover Edges" plug-in a couple of years back. That was in response to the emergence of in-camera crop features which initially caused Lightroom to only show the cropped image, not the full original image. They fixed that issue in due course, but only for new cameras going forward....so they developed this plug-in for any in-camera cropped images from those cameras which were released prior to the Lightroom fix (the Canon 5D3 is a good example).

It could be worth a try, though the plug-in only works on DNG files, so the Raw files would need to be converted first.


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## siamak (Dec 25, 2015)

Jim Wilde said:


> I don't know if it would work, but Adobe did develop the "Recover Edges" plug-in a couple of years back. That was in response to the emergence of in-camera crop features which initially caused Lightroom to only show the cropped image, not the full original image. They fixed that issue in due course, but only for new cameras going forward....so they developed this plug-in for any in-camera cropped images from those cameras which were released prior to the Lightroom fix (the Canon 5D3 is a good example).
> 
> It could be worth a try, though the plug-in only works on DNG files, so the Raw files would need to be converted first.



Thank you. I installed the plugin you recommended.  Seems does not work with LR 5 anymore.  However I made a small donation to RPP and was provided with a plugin among other things that would allow to open any raw image from LR. Now I use RPP raw convertor from my LR which would show whole sensor capture in addition to its floating point raw conversion. Highly recommended.


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