# Version 2015.2.1 has the potential t corrupt the LR catalog



## clee01l

After updating to LR 2015.2.1 I started getting problems  starting LR and exiting LR   I could only exit LR using the Force Quit.option in OS X.  Once when restarting LR I got a Message that the catalog was in an unstable state (a very worrisome message to receive BTW)   Below is the gist of the conversation I've had on Adobe forums. 
Note the response from the "Sr. Computer Scientist" (highlighted in blue)

The Link to the Adobe thread is here
[h=1]Lightroom: CC 2015.2.1 on MacOS 10.11 crashes on start up Won't exit when it does start. 
[/h]

I updated LR2015.1 to 2015.2.1 after downgrading 2015.2 back to 2015.1. 
2015.2.1 crashed every time it starts and thens can be restarted after the initial crash. When Exiting, LR does not exit and I must force quite each time to get out of the too after waiting as much as 15 minutes for the program to exit normally. 
Often I need to clear the lock file to restart LR. 

Why not pull the 2015.2.x update UNTIL you have thoroughly tested the new code and quit forcing loyal users to bug test your code. 

Version Lightroom version: CC 2015.2.1 [ 1046594 ]




*OK, this is an issue still being investigated by the Lightroom team. They couldn't get to the bottom of it quickly enough for the 6.2.1 update, but are still working to figure it out. *

I sent a note to the engineer working on it, in case he needs more information from you to help narrow it down.



Cletus Lee 
Who made the decision that releasing a known flawed compile was better than not releasing any fix? Pretty damned stupid. I've gone from a poorly functioning LR version 2015.2 to a non functioning LR version 2015.2.1 that leave my catalog in an unstable state. I think you need to warn LR users that the potential is there that LR2015,2,1 can corrupt their LR catalog. I will certainly see that people on LR Forums.net are aware that potential for a corrupt catalog exists.


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## Skeeter

thanks for the heads up


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## Johan Elzenga

This is getting more and more ludicrous. The Lightroom team seems to be completely out of control.

Do you let Lightroom make a catalog backup on quit? I had to force quit too a few times (without issues with the catalog so far), but it was always after Lightroom made a catalog backup. If I quit Lightroom and tell it to skip the backup this time, everything seems to be fine. As I make other backups anyway, I decided to just skip Lightroom backups for the time being.


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## Jim Wilde

Very pleased that I refrained from updating the OS on my Mac.....it seems pretty obvious that most of the stability issues centre around Lightroom running under El Capitan. As I said in another thread, I'm not seeing any such problems when running 6.2 or 6.2.1 on Mavericks and Windows 10.


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## LouieSherwin

Jim Wilde said:


> Very pleased that I refrained from updating the OS on my Mac.....it seems pretty obvious that most of the stability issues centre around Lightroom running under El Capitan. As I said in another thread, I'm not seeing any such problems when running 6.2 or 6.2.1 on Mavericks and Windows 10.



An old adage. How do you know who the pioneers are? They are the ones with all the arrows stuck in them.

I never go to the first release. At a minimum I wait until the x.1 is out and there are not any reports of serious problems. That way I all I miss is some potential pain.

-louie


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## Johan Elzenga

But if everybody would be like that, version x.1 would never arrive...


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## clee01l

Jim Wilde said:


> Very pleased that I refrained from updating the OS on my Mac.....it seems pretty obvious that most of the stability issues centre around Lightroom running under El Capitan. As I said in another thread, I'm not seeing any such problems when running 6.2 or 6.2.1 on Mavericks and Windows 10.


So far turning off the New OS X feature labeled "Automatically hide and show the menubar" seems to have helped eliminate the crash on start up.  I'm still working on the LR hang on exit issue and may have something to report there soon.


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## Johan Elzenga

clee01l said:


> So far turning off the New OS X feature labeled "Automatically hide and show the menubar" seems to have helped eliminate the crash on start up.  I'm still working on the LR hang on exit issue and may have something to report there soon.



I spoke too soon. I just had a lockup on quit too, even though I did not let Lightroom make a catalog backup. I'm fed up with this, so I downgraded my version back to CC2015.1.1.


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## LouieSherwin

JohanElzenga said:


> But if everybody would be like that, version x.1 would never arrive...



True, but there are plenty of those who just can't wait. 

I hope that the takeaway for end users  from this incident is to learn to maybe more deliberate about managing their risks. It is probable prudent to avoid new releases if you are about to start an important project. Even then you should always have complete backups before making any significant changes.

-louie


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## clee01l

When Adobe was operating on a 15-18 month version update cycle, Adobe would release a public beta of the next version BUT with one specific qualification.  You could not convert your production catalog to the new version.  With the production data safely running in the old version there was little chance that you could corrupt the production catalog and at the same time Adobe got a lot of free user testing on the new version to work out the bugs.  With the advent of Lightroom Mobile and LRCC/6, they stopped this public beta. (At least they stopped calling it a beta) and released a very buggy version 6.0 and now 6.2 as production, putting customers production data at risk to any undiscovered bugs.


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## clee01l

*What I have found that works (for Me)*

*For everyone running OS X 10.11*
Apple has not released any bug fix yet. Yet 10.11.1 was a beta release not included when ElCapitan was released to the public.  What I'm seeing may and Apple problem or it may be an Adobe problem dealing in failing to deal with new functionality with OS X 10.11.  I think we are going to need to wait until the dust settles with Apple and Adobe before there is a correct/complete solution.

I have found that turning off the New OS X feature labeled "Automatically hide and show the menubar" seems to have helped eliminate the crash on start up  AND more importantly the inability to Exit LR properly.  Until there are updates from Apple AND Adobe that address these  specific flaws, I recommend that everyone on 10.11 turn off the OS X feature labeled "Automatically hide and show the menubar".   Doing this one thing seems to have resolved my LR problems at each end.


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## I Simonius

I'm on 10.11 and LR6.2.1

I find al sorts of odd things happening, including those  you have mentioned, (hang on exit etc)

trying without the Auto show enabled

thanks for the suggestion

Like a fool I believed someone who said the patch had solved all the problems (actually it seems it only solved crashing)


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## Johan Elzenga

I could only quit Lightroom 2015.2.1 today by force quitting. I do not use "Automatically hide and show the menu bar" in El Capitan, so that cannot be the reason. I downgraded Lightroom to 2015.1.1 and can only advise anyone to do the same.


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## I Simonius

I tried going back but something seems to have screwed with my previous version now so I banked on the update fixing things - as it is, it is slow, and behaves oddly. 

I hope they get to the bottom of this soon


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## Victoria Bampton

There have been a lot of issues with this release, and there are still some mystery issues with a few crashes being reported, and this force quit issue, which are still being investigated.  On the other hand, these leftover issues are being seen by a relatively small percentage of the user base.

It's certainly true to say "Version 2015.2.1 has the potential t corrupt the LR catalog" but the same is true of putting the catalog on an external drive, or the power cutting out, or lightning striking the house, or....  

On the other hand, we don't want to start scaremongering.  A 'this catalog has been left in an inconsistent state' error message is scary if you haven't seen it before and good backups are always essential, especially when one chooses to be on the cutting edge of OS and software updates, but *THERE HAVE BEEN NO REPORTS OF CATALOG CORRUPTION CAUSED BY THIS RELEASE*.


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## Johan Elzenga

While that may be true, I don't think that anyone who has to force quit Lightroom from time to time will feel comfortable about their catalog integrity right now. Catalog corruption is lurking around the corner after each force quit, so maybe we've just been lucky so far. 

I got the impression that the force quit issue is related to what you've done before quitting Lightroom. If you just open a catalog, look around a bit and perhaps export something, you can quit Lightroom without any problems. The problem seems to manifest itself especially after you added (and also possibly also if you removed) images. That too may be just a coincidence, though.


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## Victoria Bampton

Yes, I recommended to Cletus on his bug report that he roll back to 6.1.1 if he's having to force quit regularly, just to be on the safe side.


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## clee01l

JohanElzenga said:


> While that may be true, I don't think that anyone who has to force quit Lightroom from time to time will feel comfortable about their catalog integrity right now. Catalog corruption is lurking around the corner after each force quit, so maybe we've just been lucky so far.


This is the point that I am making here.   

Adobe used to release public betas that PROHIBITED the conversion of the production catalog during the beta.  They came with warnings NOT to use the betas for mission critical work.   If new versions were safe, why were the public betas release with that provision.   Was there a version update of LR that did corrupt data? I don't think Victoria can say with 
certainty that that has never happened.

The release of public betas changed changed with the  introduction of LRCC/6  And both LR 6.0 and now LR6.2 have been major screw ups on the part of Adobe with nought a whisper about trusting your production catalog to the new untested version.  Which BTW has been publicly admitted to have had known unresolved bugs when released to the user community.  This occurred in Both the 6.2 and 6.2.1 releases. 

There were no warnings or cautions that you get with a public beta and there are lots of people that still in spite of what is preached, do not do regular backups  These people are very vulnerable and Adobe has not so  much as made a statement of warning to these inexperienced users.  Regularly on this forum we deal with people that have managed to corrupt their ONLY catalog copy and come here hoping that some one might fix it because they were naive enough to trust that Adobe would have them covered.


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## Victoria Bampton

clee01l said:


> Was there a version update of LR that did corrupt data? I don't think Victoria can say with certainty that that has never happened.



No one can make any guarantee, however, there's no evidence to suggest that there's a greater risk of corruption than any other version to date.  I've been tracking the issues 18 hours a day for the last week and I haven't seen a single hint of a report. 

There is, however, plenty of evidence to suggest that keeping a catalog on an external drive can corrupt catalogs.  But I don't hear you declaring from the rooftops that you shouldn't keep your catalog on an external drive.

The warning to make backups is universal and well deserved, but scaremongering with no evidence is not benefiting anyone.


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## I Simonius

One of the little things I used to love about Adobe was the pretty insignificant little giveaway they used to give when you bought a program (and registered) I used to opt for the Font. It's nothing really, but it was a font that was a well thought out present and one I wouldn't ever have thought of getting and no neither did I need it , but you know what - little things like that do endear you to the company. Silly and trivial perhaps but I missed it when the stopped doing it (for perpetual licence holders).

I wonder whether they might just redeem themselves a tiny bit if , when they have finally fixed this update boo-boo, they will offer a similar wee gift? Wouldn't that be a nice gesture?

(though I suspect perpetual licence holders are probably permanently in the Adobe dog house)


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## clee01l

Victoria Bampton said:


> No one can make any guarantee, however, there's no evidence to suggest that there's a greater risk of corruption than any other version to date.  I've been tracking the issues 18 hours a day for the last week and I haven't seen a single hint of a report.


Victoria, you are telling this to the man that has to recreate 121 Publish Service Collections that are going to want to be republished before LR and the destination are in Sync.   Unless you are in the pay of Adobe now, no one is forcing you to spend 18 hours a day tracking issues.  


> The warning to make backups is universal and well deserved, but scaremongering with no evidence is not benefiting anyone.


If Adobe had been forthright with their user base when CC/6.2 was released and stated up front, "This release has some serious bugs and we have not fully tested it with the OS X El Capitan release, so caution should be observed when using this update with production data."   I think the user experience and expectations would be very different.   When I did software development and if I released a product that was this flawed knowing that there were serious flaws uncorrected, I would have been fired and rightfully so. 

You and Jim and me are recommending that users revert to 6.1.1 now.  Why did you not make that statement on day one?  This release should have come with a warning. Where was it?  You had advanced knowledge of this fiasco. When this version was released why did you not say something then? 

I don't think this thread is scaremongering and if only one person was scared by this thread into making a backup before they plunged in to 6.2.x, backed off on an Adobe recommended update (as you are now promoting) then it was justified.


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## hassiman

I personally find the action of Adobe in releasing ( Maybe "escaped" might be a better description. ) This Lightroom version reckless in the extreme if only because a critical module had been so heavily redesigned and was released for download sans notice to LR's users.  To release the software knowing that there was a serious bug is beyond the pale. Totally irresponsible and speaks volumns about the reguard Or lack thereof Adobe has for its customer base.  This can happen when a company holds itself in such high reguard... Its customers... Not so much.
Here is the latest statement from on high:

Adobe has issued an apology over the 'significant crashing bug' introduced in Lightroom 6.2. The latest version of the software was released last Monday, and brought with it a redesigned import experience. That new experience, unfortunately, also introduced instability into Lightroom and removed some import functions; users reported issues with the software crashing and running poorly.
Adobe's Tom Hogarty issued the apology on Friday, revealing that Adobe was aware of the issues but due to 'the scope of the bug' being unclear, the company decided to ship the software regardless while continuing to 'search for a reproducible case.' Adobe issued a new update on Friday, version 6.2.1, that corrects the problem. 
Hogarty also commented on the import changes, saying:
'We made decisions on sensible defaults and placed many of the controls behind a settings panel. At the same time we removed some of our very low usage features to further reduce complexity and improve quality. These changes were not communicated properly or openly before launch. Lightroom was created in 2006 via a 14 month public beta in a dialog with the photography community. In making these changes without a broader dialog I’ve failed the original core values of the product and the team.'
He promised that Adobe will 'work hard to earn your trust back' with future releases.


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## Hoggy

...  As far as worrying about corruption, and since the catalog is so vital, I've long ago installed that "LR Relaunch" script and have set LR to backup on every exit.  I use it after every single 'how much I wouldn't want to lose' amount of work.  For me, that could even be after a single image.  (And consequently, why I take strong issue with LR's new automatic forced zipping and the "TPG LR Backup" plugin not being very functional anymore due to that.)
The backup directory also syncs with a cloud backup service.


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## Victoria Bampton

clee01l said:


> This release should have come with a warning. Where was it?  You had advanced knowledge of this fiasco. When this version was released why did you not say something then?



I did.  My blog post was released at exactly the same time as 6.2, with the specific warning not to upgrade.  What’s new in Lightroom CC 2015.2 and Lightroom 6.2?  While the bugs were known, the scope was not.  No one with any business sense would have knowingly released a version that would get them that much bad PR.

As you're concerned about your catalog integrity, I did some additional research last night, bouncing out emails to the Digital Imaging Customer Support Manager and the database engineers.  The Customer Support Manager confirmed that there have been no reported cases of catalog corruption, and considering the outcry over the last week or so, it would have been all over the web by now.  The database engineers confirmed that the database is built in such a way that there's an extremely low risk of catalog corruption, even if you have to force quit repeatedly.  It's no higher than any other release to date.

I'm not recommending people roll back to 6.1.1 because of any concerns over catalog corruption.  I'm recommending rolling back for people who are having stability issues, such as those affecting you, because it makes it really difficult to work and that's easily fixed by rolling back.


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## clee01l

Victoria Bampton said:


> I did.  My blog post was released at exactly the same time as 6.2, with the specific warning not to upgrade.  What’s new in Lightroom CC 2015.2 and Lightroom 6.2?  While the bugs were known, the scope was not.  No one with any business sense would have knowingly released a version that would get them that much bad PR....


Well I guess that I should read your blog more often .  If you had posted a note here, I would not be in my current predicament wrt having to having to rebuild over 100 Publish Service Collections.  It would have been better if that warning had come from Adobe and not you.

I still have no good feeling about my original Master that produced the warning message.  My choices to recover from 2015.2.1. are 
1) Use the new exported master and rebuild my Publish Services. 
 2) Fall back to the Sept 27th backup catalog and import all of October and re do all of my October work effort or 
3) Use the master of October 6th that includes all of my work to date but was affected by the 2015.2.1 crashes to the point of generating the warning about stability. 

If I could trust that the master of October 6th was not in some way corrupt, it would be my best route forward with the least effort.  Who do you think would give me that assurance?  Do you think your Database Engineer friends could look at my catalog file and make that pronouncement?


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## clee01l

After updating to LR 2015.2.1 I started getting problems  starting LR and exiting LR   I could only exit LR using the Force Quit.option in OS X.  Once when restarting LR I got a Message that the catalog was in an unstable state (a very worrisome message to receive BTW)   Below is the gist of the conversation I've had on Adobe forums. 
Note the response from the "Sr. Computer Scientist" (highlighted in blue)

The Link to the Adobe thread is here
[h=1]Lightroom: CC 2015.2.1 on MacOS 10.11 crashes on start up Won't exit when it does start. 
[/h]

I updated LR2015.1 to 2015.2.1 after downgrading 2015.2 back to 2015.1. 
2015.2.1 crashed every time it starts and thens can be restarted after the initial crash. When Exiting, LR does not exit and I must force quite each time to get out of the too after waiting as much as 15 minutes for the program to exit normally. 
Often I need to clear the lock file to restart LR. 

Why not pull the 2015.2.x update UNTIL you have thoroughly tested the new code and quit forcing loyal users to bug test your code. 

Version Lightroom version: CC 2015.2.1 [ 1046594 ]




*OK, this is an issue still being investigated by the Lightroom team. They couldn't get to the bottom of it quickly enough for the 6.2.1 update, but are still working to figure it out. *

I sent a note to the engineer working on it, in case he needs more information from you to help narrow it down.



Cletus Lee 
Who made the decision that releasing a known flawed compile was better than not releasing any fix? Pretty damned stupid. I've gone from a poorly functioning LR version 2015.2 to a non functioning LR version 2015.2.1 that leave my catalog in an unstable state. I think you need to warn LR users that the potential is there that LR2015,2,1 can corrupt their LR catalog. I will certainly see that people on LR Forums.net are aware that potential for a corrupt catalog exists.


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## Victoria Bampton

clee01l said:


> Well I guess that I should read your blog more often . If you had posted a note here, I would not be in my current predicament



I know, kicking myself.  I posted it on every social media network but forgot to put it up as an announcement here.  I'm trying to set up an automated way of showing my blog posts here to remove the user error element  so would love your feedback on whether it's useful.



clee01l said:


> It would have been better if that warning had come from Adobe and not you.



No arguments here!



clee01l said:


> I still have no good feeling about my original Master that produced the warning message.


I've seen that error on many an occasion (I break builds regularly!!) and haven't corrupted my catalog to date, so if it was me, I'd comfortably use the October 6th version.  I'm happy to forward it to the magician and get him to check it out.  He might have his hands full this week....


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## Denis Pagé

clee01l said:


> Well I guess that I should read your blog more often .



I was about to point that, thanks I am a subscriber, I received a warning by email from Victoria's Blog not to upgrade on October 5th mid afternoon EDT (Montreal). But Victoria replied first just above.

As to warn here, I think the blog is more appropriate but also, she only work 18h/day isn't she? 

Thanks for the warning Victoria. As I was working on a job with a deadline, it is only yesterday that I made the upgrade to El Capitan. So, I am still on CC 2015.1.1 (1032027) anf so far so good...


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## Nortonian

I am running El Capitan and still on Lightroom CC2015.1.1 (having heeded Victoria's warning email/blog, when I was on holiday). However, have just tried to exit LR and it has been ignoring me for half an hour or so, so I guess my only option is to Force Quit. (Am new to Macs, so not quite certain how traumatic that might be!)

Now it is getting quite hard for the non-guru type of user to follow all of these shenanigans, BUT does my particular circumstance not point the finger more at Apple than Adobe? Or am I missing something in all of this?

If anyone replies, can they also confirm that it is not the end of the world to Force Quit, please.

Ian


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## Victoria Bampton

If you're definitely still on 2015.1.1, then it's not a known issue, but it's not the end of the world, don't worry.  That IS, on the other hand, a known issue with 2015.2.1, although without a known cause so far!


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## Nortonian

It's definitely CC2015.1.1. I have used LR probably about 10 times since upgrading to El Capitan, without problem: the issue of not Quitting has only happened once, and that was today.

Ian


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## tspear

hassiman said:


> I personally find the action of Adobe in releasing ( Maybe "escaped" might be a better description. ) This Lightroom version reckless in the extreme if only because a critical module had been so heavily redesigned and was released for download sans notice to LR's users.  To release the software knowing that there was a serious bug is beyond the pale. Totally irresponsible and speaks volumns about the reguard Or lack thereof Adobe has for its customer base.  This can happen when a company holds itself in such high reguard... Its customers... Not so much.
> Here is the latest statement from on high:
> 
> Adobe has issued an apology over the 'significant crashing bug' introduced in Lightroom 6.2. The latest version of the software was released last Monday, and brought with it a redesigned import experience. That new experience, unfortunately, also introduced instability into Lightroom and removed some import functions; users reported issues with the software crashing and running poorly.
> Adobe's Tom Hogarty issued the apology on Friday, revealing that Adobe was aware of the issues but due to 'the scope of the bug' being unclear, the company decided to ship the software regardless while continuing to 'search for a reproducible case.' Adobe issued a new update on Friday, version 6.2.1, that corrects the problem.
> Hogarty also commented on the import changes, saying:
> 'We made decisions on sensible defaults and placed many of the controls behind a settings panel. At the same time we removed some of our very low usage features to further reduce complexity and improve quality. These changes were not communicated properly or openly before launch. Lightroom was created in 2006 via a 14 month public beta in a dialog with the photography community. In making these changes without a broader dialog I’ve failed the original core values of the product and the team.'
> He promised that Adobe will 'work hard to earn your trust back' with future releases.



Where can I see the apology? I have yet to see it on on of the threads/forums I follow.
That might encourage me to reconsider dropping Lr give them a few months to see where they go and give up learning on Capture One for now.

Tim


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## Jim Wilde

Victoria Bampton said:


> I know, kicking myself.



No need to do that, we're all big boys now so shouldn't need to be spoon-fed all the time.


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## Jim Wilde

tspear said:


> Where can I see the apology? I have yet to see it on on of the threads/forums I follow.
> That might encourage me to reconsider dropping Lr give them a few months to see where they go and give up learning on Capture One for now.
> 
> Tim



Tim, you need to bookmark the Lightroom Journal blog, it's where all the significant Lightroom and Camera Raw announcements are made.


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## tspear

Jim Wilde said:


> Tim, you need to bookmark the Lightroom Journal blog, it's where all the significant Lightroom and Camera Raw announcements are made.



Thanks Jim, I never had a need to follow a company blog before. 

Tim


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## jms969

hassiman said:


> I personally find the action of Adobe in releasing ( Maybe "escaped" might be a better description. ) This Lightroom version reckless in the extreme if only because a critical module had been so heavily redesigned and was released for download sans notice to LR's users.  To release the software knowing that there was a serious bug is beyond the pale. Totally irresponsible and speaks volumns about the reguard Or lack thereof Adobe has for its customer base.  This can happen when a company holds itself in such high reguard... Its customers... Not so much.
> Here is the latest statement from on high:
> 
> Adobe has issued an apology over the 'significant crashing bug' introduced in Lightroom 6.2. The latest version of the software was released last Monday, and brought with it a redesigned import experience. That new experience, unfortunately, also introduced instability into Lightroom and removed some import functions; users reported issues with the software crashing and running poorly.
> Adobe's Tom Hogarty issued the apology on Friday, revealing that Adobe was aware of the issues but due to 'the scope of the bug' being unclear, the company decided to ship the software regardless while continuing to 'search for a reproducible case.' Adobe issued a new update on Friday, version 6.2.1, that corrects the problem.
> Hogarty also commented on the import changes, saying:
> 'We made decisions on sensible defaults and placed many of the controls behind a settings panel. At the same time we removed some of our very low usage features to further reduce complexity and improve quality. These changes were not communicated properly or openly before launch. Lightroom was created in 2006 via a 14 month public beta in a dialog with the photography community. In making these changes without a broader dialog I’ve failed the original core values of the product and the team.'
> He promised that Adobe will 'work hard to earn your trust back' with future releases.



As a result of this debacle I am trying a trial of Capture One.  If Adobe fixes all of the issues including the incredibly slow speed, and import functionality I  will probably hang with LR, but I am seriously considering switching.  They are just so d^%n customer hostile!!!


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## tspear

jms969 said:


> As a result of this debacle I am trying a trial of Capture One.  If Adobe fixes all of the issues including the incredibly slow speed, and import functionality I  will probably hang with LR, but I am seriously considering switching.  They are just so d^%n customer hostile!!!



Let me know how is goes. I started watching some training videos on Capture One to get an idea; but did not download it.
Then Tom from Adobe posted enough of an apology that I am going to give them a couple months to see if they fix it before I start looking for an alternative to Lr.

Tim


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## Linwood Ferguson

I wonder if the yellow banner on this web site ought to recommend against installation of this update.  It might even be the kind of thing an email blast would be welcomed.


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## jms969

Yes!!!


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## Victoria Bampton

Ferguson said:


> I wonder if the yellow banner on this web site ought to recommend against installation of this update.  It might even be the kind of thing an email blast would be welcomed.



Yellow banner is up - good idea.

I can't send an email blast because users haven't signed up for updates like this and it'll get our emails blacklisted, but there is another email going out to my mailing list tonight/tomorrow.


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## jms969

tspear said:


> Let me know how is goes. I started watching some training videos on Capture One to get an idea; but did not download it.
> Then Tom from Adobe posted enough of an apology that I am going to give them a couple months to see if they fix it before I start looking for an alternative to Lr.
> 
> Tim



Tim,

My CC subscription expires soon and I am going to let it lapse.  I have gone back to LR 5.7 (perpetual license) so I can use my existing LR library.  I am making the switch to COP for all new shoots. It looks like 90% of what I do in PS can be done with Pixelmator...  I am digging COP!!!  In an unscientific comparison it looks like to me that COP's raw converter is nicer than LR's.

jms

PS.  I would have never switched to LR had Apple not killed Aperture


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## tspear

JMS,

I use Lr significantly more for managing and viewing photos then editing. I have yet to use PhotoShop and really do not have an interest in it. I do not do that much post processing work. I have focused more on getting the photo correct in the camera, and limiting the post processing to minor tasks. e.g. Cropping, gradient and radial filters to fix shadows, red eye...  

Since this is just a hobby, I average only about 20-30 minutes a day working in Lr; so I am much more hesitant to switch.

Lastly, be careful with Capture One in terms of raw processing. From what I have read/researched, Capture One just defaults with much higher sharpness and other factors preset; where Adobe has selected a much more neutral look. The real question is not what you start with, but what you end with; and the difference in time and effort to get there.

Tim


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## jms969

tspear said:


> JMS,
> 
> I use Lr significantly more for managing and viewing photos then editing. I have yet to use PhotoShop and really do not have an interest in it. I do not do that much post processing work. I have focused more on getting the photo correct in the camera, and limiting the post processing to minor tasks. e.g. Cropping, gradient and radial filters to fix shadows, red eye...
> 
> Since this is just a hobby, I average only about 20-30 minutes a day working in Lr; so I am much more hesitant to switch.
> 
> Lastly, be careful with Capture One in terms of raw processing. From what I have read/researched, Capture One just defaults with much higher sharpness and other factors preset; where Adobe has selected a much more neutral look. The real question is not what you start with, but what you end with; and the difference in time and effort to get there.
> 
> Tim



Tim,

I get all of that, and usually (not always) one should start with a properly exposed and well composed image.  But what can be done in post is just short of magical, it lets me create what my minds eye sees and frees the creative process from the limitations of the camera.

Adobe is simply no longer going to be a part of my creative process (moving forward)...

jms


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## I Simonius

Been away and on my travels and returning find that daft import interface - all my mages are ticked with a BIG tick - why is it telling me these images images need a BIG tick on them,?

I now it could mean they are IN the catalogue already, or perhaps it means they are lovely - but how does it know that?

Stupid stupid changes - It was just right before  Grrr

and...
now LR wants to sign me into LR mobile. How do I stop it doing this? (In prefs Im not  'joined')


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## clee01l

What used to be a little check box is not a "BIG tick"  There is some missing functionality that was an oversize and a version 6.3 that is supposed to fix the import glitches and will include a Luddite option to return to the original Import dialog. 
For now, if you prefer the original import dialog, you can roll back to 6.1.1 using these instructions: How do I roll back to Lightroom 2015.1.1 or Lightroom 6.1.1?

OS X 10.11.0 does not play well.  You will need to install the OS bug fix –10.11.1 to get the best compatibility with LR6.x. So, make sure that your OS is up to date. 

Check to make sure that you have not installed a LRCC or trial version, because there are no requirements  or even options to let you use LR Mobile.  You do have to log-in to validate your perpetual license.  Perhaps this is what is being requested of you.


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## Jim Wilde

clee01l said:


> ....and a version 6.3 that is supposed to fix the import glitches and will include a Luddite option to return to the original Import dialog.



You might be making a wrong assumption there, Cletus. My reading of the situation is for a complete reversal of the import process back to the pre-6.2 state, i.e. not the new import with an option to use the old.....just the old process back again..


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## clee01l

Jim Wilde said:


> You might be making a wrong assumption there, Cletus. My reading of the situation is for a complete reversal of the import process back to the pre-6.2 state, i.e. not the new import with an option to use the old.....just the old process back again..


I hope I'm not. Aside from the missing functionality, there is little wrong with the new interface.  The original import is confusing and disjointed it is little wonder that New LR users begin so confused.


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## LouieSherwin

Jim Wilde said:


> You might be making a wrong assumption there, Cletus. My reading of the situation is for a complete reversal of the import process back to the pre-6.2 state, i.e. not the new import with an option to use the old.....just the old process back again..



Hi Jim, 

The wording was not quite clear to me. They definitely stated that they were bringing back the missing functions but it was not quite so clear, at least to me, how that would be implemented. I suspect that the Import was substantially rewritten which may account for the crashing bug. Given the nature of software development it is probably going to be a lot easier to add the missing parts back to the new code base than to revert back. Just a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) on my part.

I will be curious to see exactly how that happens. 

-louie


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## Jim Wilde

I guess we'll find out in due course. 

Personally, I didn't see anything wrong with the old import process, I never could understand why people found it difficult. But given that apparently so many potential users were put off by it, then clearly Adobe had to change it. I had no real problems with the new process (though I didn't see how it actually solved the apparent problem), and I was a little disappointed at the decision to make a 180 degree u-turn. I also had no issue with the "missing functionality", some of which should never have been in Lightroom in the first place, IMO (then there would have been much less of an outcry).


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## I Simonius

clee01l said:


> What used to be a little check box is not a "BIG tick"  There is some missing functionality that was an oversize and a version 6.3 that is supposed to fix the import glitches and will include a Luddite option to return to the original Import dialog.
> For now, if you prefer the original import dialog, you can roll back to 6.1.1 using these instructions: How do I roll back to Lightroom 2015.1.1 or Lightroom 6.1.1?
> 
> OS X 10.11.0 does not play well.  You will need to install the OS bug fix –10.11.1 to get the best compatibility with LR6.x. So, make sure that your OS is up to date.
> 
> Check to make sure that you have not installed a LRCC or trial version, because there are no requirements  or even options to let you use LR Mobile.  You do have to log-in to validate your perpetual license.  Perhaps this is what is being requested of you.



I'm on 10.11.1

to me this is a BIG tick (proportional to the size of the image it covers)





I'm using the same version I have been using for months and about says it's 6.2.1, thats all, so Im not sure how to find out more about what type it is. Didn't do this before.









It tells me that if I log out from adobe then I will lose the ability to use it

 I preferred the previous import UI because to me it was pretty obvious how to use it, and that's despite my not being very good at grasping new things. I don't think that makes me a luddite, which is a disparaging term.


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## sizzlingbadger

My import still won't work at all on my iMac. I'm using CaptureOne at present to get around it.


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## clee01l

After updating to LR 2015.2.1 I started getting problems  starting LR and exiting LR   I could only exit LR using the Force Quit.option in OS X.  Once when restarting LR I got a Message that the catalog was in an unstable state (a very worrisome message to receive BTW)   Below is the gist of the conversation I've had on Adobe forums. 
Note the response from the "Sr. Computer Scientist" (highlighted in blue)

The Link to the Adobe thread is here
[h=1]Lightroom: CC 2015.2.1 on MacOS 10.11 crashes on start up Won't exit when it does start. 
[/h]

I updated LR2015.1 to 2015.2.1 after downgrading 2015.2 back to 2015.1. 
2015.2.1 crashed every time it starts and thens can be restarted after the initial crash. When Exiting, LR does not exit and I must force quite each time to get out of the too after waiting as much as 15 minutes for the program to exit normally. 
Often I need to clear the lock file to restart LR. 

Why not pull the 2015.2.x update UNTIL you have thoroughly tested the new code and quit forcing loyal users to bug test your code. 

Version Lightroom version: CC 2015.2.1 [ 1046594 ]




*OK, this is an issue still being investigated by the Lightroom team. They couldn't get to the bottom of it quickly enough for the 6.2.1 update, but are still working to figure it out. *

I sent a note to the engineer working on it, in case he needs more information from you to help narrow it down.



Cletus Lee 
Who made the decision that releasing a known flawed compile was better than not releasing any fix? Pretty damned stupid. I've gone from a poorly functioning LR version 2015.2 to a non functioning LR version 2015.2.1 that leave my catalog in an unstable state. I think you need to warn LR users that the potential is there that LR2015,2,1 can corrupt their LR catalog. I will certainly see that people on LR Forums.net are aware that potential for a corrupt catalog exists.


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## Johan Elzenga

What happens when you try to import? Import should work no matter what version you use. You may not like what Adobe removed from the dialog of 6.2, but the import function is not broken.


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## clee01l

I Simonius said:


> I'm on 10.11.1
> 
> to me this is a BIG tick (proportional to the size of the image it covers)
> 
> 
> I'm using the same version I have been using for months and about says it's 6.2.1, thats all, so Im not sure how to find out more about what type it is. Didn't do this before.
> 
> It tells me that if I log out from adobe then I will lose the ability to use it
> 
> I preferred the previous import UI because to me it was pretty obvious how to use it, and that's despite my not being very good at grasping new things. I don't think that makes me a luddite, which is a disparaging term.



_Luddite (n.) any opponent of industrial change or innovation. _ I think this a descriptive term I did not use it disparagingly and did not intend  it to be taken that way. It certainly was not directed toward you.  There was a groundswell of complaint from those _resistant to change or innovation_ in LR6.2.1.  Adobe responded to that by promising to bring the old import dialog back in 6.3. 

LR6.2.1 was released around October 5th  So, this is not the same version that you were using in any month before the last one. If you prefer the previous import dialog, just follow my recommendation to roll back to 6.1.1 using Victoria's instructions. How do I roll back to Lightroom 2015.1.1 or Lightroom 6.1.1?   It won't affect your ability to use Adobe products by reverting to the old version.


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## clee01l

sizzlingbadger said:


> My import still won't work at all on my iMac. I'm using CaptureOne at present to get around it.


In what way does it not work? Does it Crash?  Are you on OS X 10.11.0?  Did you try rolling back to 2015.1.1?


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## I Simonius

clee01l said:


> It certainly was not directed toward you.


OK then, cheers




clee01l said:


> LR6.2.1 was released around October 5th  So, this is not the same version that you were using in any month before the last one. If you prefer the previous import dialog, just follow my recommendation to roll back to 6.1.1 using Victoria's instructions. How do I roll back to Lightroom 2015.1.1 or Lightroom 6.1.1?   It won't affect your ability to use Adobe products by reverting to the old version.



 I meant of course that I haven't downloaded anything as an individual download except as done through the update feature so Im at a loss to know how it could be anything but a standalone version

I don't absolutely need to roll back to a previous version - I just don't like the new version, but I can live with it - but thats not my issue

*My issue is about getting an email saying my trial is about to expire and not knowing what to do about it as I don't have a trial version AFAIK and have previously put in my serial No. when I first installed it but can't find where to tell it that. e.g. there is no 'registration' in the help menu or inprefs - I don't know where else to look*


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## sizzlingbadger

All the images are greyed out in the import dialogue, so is the import button. Don't have time to muck about with it to be honest, so will just wait for the next update which may fix it. If not I'll stick with CaptureOne it seems pretty stable now.


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## Johan Elzenga

I Simonius said:


> OK then, cheers
> 
> 
> 
> I meant of course that I haven't downloaded anything as an individual download except as done through the update feature so Im at a loss to know how it could be anything but a standalone version
> 
> I don't absolutely need to roll back to a previous version - I just don't like the new version, but I can live with it - but thats not my issue
> 
> *My issue is about getting an email saying my trial is about to expire and not knowing what to do about it as I don't have a trial version AFAIK and have previously put in my serial No. when I first installed it but can't find where to tell it that. e.g. there is no 'registration' in the help menu or inprefs - I don't know where else to look*



I would simply ignore that email, _unless you are having problems with Lightroom itself saying it's expired_. These emails are generated automatically, about one month after you've downloaded Lightroom. At the moment you download it, it's officially still a trial version, because you haven't put in a serial number yet (you do that when you run the installer). What probably happened is that Adobe didn't make the connection between your download and your installation and registration, that's why they sent the email.


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## Hoggy

sizzlingbadger said:


> If not I'll stick with CaptureOne it seems pretty stable now.



I've been playing around with C1 too, but not because of any LR issues.
I like a number of points about it, but it seems to be missing a lot of core functionality for my tastes/uses.
Though I'm finding it IS rather nice to have a secondary cataloger & editor/converter that wont write into DNG (more due to past obstinance, than good reason IMO) - for purely playing around with..   Even if the cataloging functionality is still a work-in-progress.  And indeed I do find it to be stable, more or less.  I had major crashing issues after a fresh OS re-install to SSD, but re-re-installing C1 fixed that.


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## I Simonius

JohanElzenga said:


> I would simply ignore that email, _unless you are having problems with Lightroom itself saying it's expired_. These emails are generated automatically, about one month after you've downloaded Lightroom. At the moment you download it, it's officially still a trial version, because you haven't put in a serial number yet (you do that when you run the installer). What probably happened is that Adobe didn't make the connection between your download and your installation and registration, that's why they sent the email.



OK thanks for that


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