# Mac - files not in Trash just deleted



## Kiwigeoff (Aug 31, 2011)

At sometime the behaviour of LR changed when deleting files. It went from placing the deleted files in the trash from which they could be retrieved to removing them from the computer altogether, no trash, nothing.
Also when converting to DNG inside LR the raw files are removed as above while the xmp files do end up in the trash.
Could someone explain the whays and whens of this behaviour please........

Thanks..............:hail:


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## RikkFlohr (Aug 31, 2011)

In Windows, files deleted are showing up in Recycle Bin on 3.4.1.


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## clee01l (Aug 31, 2011)

If your files are large and your free space is small, the OS will deleted the oldest/largest files instead of storing them in the trash.  Could this be what is happening?  Start with an empty trash bin and then try to delete an image from inside LR.  When you delete, the confirmation messagebox pops up asking (in Windows) to delete or remove and a message "Delete moves the file to Explorer's Recycle Bin and removes it from Lightroom"  Do you get a similar message?    What version of OSX? (not in your profile  )


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## Victoria Bampton (Aug 31, 2011)

Where are the files?  Could it be that the drive they're on isn't allowing adding to the trash, for example, there were some issues with NAS units a while back?


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## Victoria Bampton (Aug 31, 2011)

Oh, and how are you deleting?  Not the splat-delete?


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## Kiwigeoff (Aug 31, 2011)

No Victoria, just normal Delete with the Delete key!!:shock: See the bit about converting to DNG as well.
It's been reported on the U2U as well - I thought I had just missed an announcement!!

Oh and they are just on USB drives - Mac formatted.


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## Victoria Bampton (Aug 31, 2011)

On 10.6.8, Delete key is moving to the trash, but DNG in place conversion is deleting (as I'd expect - wasn't it always like that?)


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## Kiwigeoff (Aug 31, 2011)

Victoria Bampton said:


> On 10.6.8, Delete key is moving to the trash, but DNG in place conversion is deleting (as I'd expect - wasn't it always like that?)


Ok, that's not what I and others are getting with the Delete key - nothing in the trash at all. Oh, I think it is raws only, TIFFs end up in the trash.
I don't believe the DNG conversion used to vanish the raw files either....... why would it remove the raw and place the xmp file in the trash.


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## Kiwigeoff (Sep 4, 2011)

What happens for other Mac users? I'm going to report this but want some more evidence (have a few on the U2U already).
Thanks.........
Lightroom should never delete from a drive without the user forcing it.
Same with conversion to DNG - why would the raw files be deleted before the job is finished???


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## LouieSherwin (Sep 4, 2011)

Hi Geoff,

I just ran a couple of tests and when I "Delete from Disk" the image file and sidecar file are put into my trash. However, my library is on an internal SATA drive not an external USB drives. 

Have you checked the .Trashes folder on your external drive to see if the files are perhaps there but not showing up in your user Trash? When deleting files from external drive the system actually puts the deleted files in this special folder. It is hard to get at but here's how.

If the files are there then somehow your system is not linking this info back into your user Trash folder. 

Use Terminal, after the sudo command type your regular password. You should be configured as Admin of you system by default.

cd /Volumes/ExternalDrive

sudo  ls -laR .Trashes

You should see something like the following:

total 0
[email protected]  3 _unknown  _unknown  102 Sep  3 17:57 .
[email protected] 12 lsherwin  lsherwin  476 Sep  3 17:59 ..
[email protected]  9 _unknown  _unknown  306 Sep  3 18:11 501


.Trashes//501:
total 66408
[email protected] 9 _unknown  _unknown       306 Sep  3 18:11 .
[email protected] 3 _unknown  _unknown       102 Sep  3 17:57 ..
[email protected] 1 _unknown  _unknown     12292 Sep  3 18:11 .DS_Store
-rw-r--r--  1 503       503       11010839 May 29 17:55 sherwin_20110530_0130.CR2
-rw-r--r--  1 503       503           7109 May 31 04:04 sherwin_20110530_0130.xmp
-rw-r--r--  1 503       503       11091935 May 29 17:56 sherwin_20110530_0131.CR2
-rw-r--r--  1 503       503           7109 May 31 04:04 sherwin_20110530_0131.xmp
-rw-r--r--  1 503       503       11860036 May 29 17:56 sherwin_20110530_0132.CR2


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## Kiwigeoff (Sep 4, 2011)

Ok, you may be on to something here Louie. I've not really used Terminal so am not to keen on that approach.
I can tell you that when I delete a file from the USB drives using finer it ends up in the trash, I would think that this should happen with Lightroom as well.
The DNG converter doesn't delete the original but doesn't have the option to either.


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## LouieSherwin (Sep 4, 2011)

Kiwigeoff said:


> Ok, you may be on to something here Louie. I've not really used Terminal so am not to keen on that approach.



The ls command is completely safe it just lists the contents of the folder. There are some file browsing applications that will let you view hidden and protected folders if you are interested although I don't recall their names off hand.



> I can tell you that when I delete a file from the USB drives using finer it ends up in the trash, I would think that this should happen with Lightroom as well.
> The DNG converter doesn't delete the original but doesn't have the option to either.



That seems to point back to Lightroom. 

Your still on 10.6 right? I believe that there are a bunch of changes to file handling in 10.7 that made me cautions about switching for now.

I don't do the DNG conversion so I can't help there. This does seem strange though.

-louie


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## Kiwigeoff (Sep 4, 2011)

So, how exactly do I do this Terminal Command???


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## LouieSherwin (Sep 4, 2011)

Terminal should be in Applications/Utilities. Start it just like any other application. Now you are in the rarefied "Unix" command line... There should be a single line at the top of the window with maybe your computer name ending with a "$". that is the Unix prompt.

If the name of your external disk is Pictures then use the following command. My example is external drive is named "UserBackup" So here is a complete listing from my terminal. At the password prompt type your user password. 

If the name of your disk has one or more spaces then put the whole path in double quotes "/Volumes/My Pictures" 

*sh-3.2$* cd /Volumes/UserBackup
*sh-3.2$* sudo ls -laR .Trashes
*Password:*
*total 0*
*[email protected]  3 _unknown  _unknown  102 Sep  3 17:57 .*
*[email protected] 12 lsherwin  lsherwin  476 Sep  3 17:59 ..*
*[email protected]  9 _unknown  _unknown  306 Sep  3 18:11 501*
*
*
*.Trashes/501:*
*total 66408*
*[email protected] 9 _unknown  _unknown       306 Sep  3 18:11 .*
*[email protected] 3 _unknown  _unknown       102 Sep  3 17:57 ..*
*[email protected] 1 _unknown  _unknown     12292 Sep  3 18:11 .DS_Store*
*drwxrwxr-x  2 root      _unknown        68 May 23 23:16 2011-05-23 (May 23) 23-16-56*
*-rw-r--r--  1 503       503       11010839 May 29 17:55 sherwin_20110530_0130.CR2*
*-rw-r--r--  1 503       503           7109 May 31 04:04 sherwin_20110530_0130.xmp*
*-rw-r--r--  1 503       503       11091935 May 29 17:56 sherwin_20110530_0131.CR2*
*-rw-r--r--  1 503       503           7109 May 31 04:04 sherwin_20110530_0131.xmp*
*-rw-r--r--  1 503       503       11860036 May 29 17:56 sherwin_20110530_0132.CR2

*


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## LouieSherwin (Sep 4, 2011)

There was a formatting problem when I posted my example. I just reedited it so make sense. Be sure to check the web page not the email

-louie


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## sizzlingbadger (Sep 5, 2011)

I can sort this out Geoff if you around Greytown, give me shout....  I spend my working day at the unix prompt 

dng conversion used to put the raws into the Trash but I think that stopped at some point release in LR2. My 3.4.1 doesn't Trash the raws when converting to dng.


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