# Extremely slow start up with LR CC, from 2-5 minutes



## jrbehm

I've been searching for an answer to this dilemma for a month or more without success.  Sorry to say, the tips I've received elsewhere haven't worked, but I just found this forum.  I'm running the latest LR CC update on a late 2012 iMac 27" with 24GB RAM, 2.9 GHz Intel Core i5, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M graphics card, and a 1TB HD with 565GB free space. The OS is the latest update to Yosemite.  I've had all the hardware checked for read/write issues, and it checks out OK.  The catalog and the image files are stored on the Hard Drive, in the usual place on a Mac, the Pictures folder.  Internet is Xfiniity Burst, with TX speeds of around 240-300Mbps.  I had thought it could be bottlenecked at initial startup, checking with Adobe, but those speeds shouldn't create that, I don't think.

By comparison, Lightroom fully installed (the old fashioned way) on my G5 PPC mac tower opens in 8-12 seconds.  The CC version on the iMac above opens in anywhere from 2 minutes to 5 minutes, and often remains inert for as much as 2 minutes after the library page shows up, before I can access an image.  It can take a minute or so for the splash page to show up.

Going back to the G5 tower, that Lightroom has nearly 22,000 images in the catalog currently in use, and has had as many as 40-50 thousand.  It never made much difference in time to open.  Since some folks I've asked have suggested I reduce the size of the iMac's  LR CC catalog from its current 17,300 images, I made a test catalog of 36 RAW files.  It took 1 minute 50 seconds to open which isn't a winner.

One other odd facet to this concerns multiple openings of the software in one day.  Usually when working, I open LR and keep it open until I export and start using Photoshop, at which time I shut down LR so they aren't competing for the 24GB of RAM.  So, I usually experience one opening a day, taking an excruciating 2-5 minutes.  Since I've been seeking solutions to the length of time that takes or at least why, I've been opening and closing Lightroom several times a day, something that wouldn't happen ordinarily. What's occurred is this: Subsequent openings of LR within short period from the original will open in from 8-24 seconds, repeatedly.  If I shut it down and rest it for 4 or 5 hours, or over night, we're back to the extremely long start up times. 

I am very interested in resolving whatever issue this is, and in hearing from members who might know what's going on.


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## Victoria Bampton

Hi jrbehm, welcome to the forum!

That 1TB hard drive... is that SSD or fusion?  Do you have a spare hard drive around that you could use for testing?

Multiple openings being faster wouldn't be unusual - the programs are still held in RAM when they're recently used.

Which LR version is running on the G5 tower?  It must be a fair bit older?

First port of call would be the standard troubleshooting steps: Standard Lightroom Troubleshooting Steps


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## jrbehm

OK, good to see that the forum is back.  I had replied to you via email, but thought it might be helpful if others are having similar issues:

_"The hard drive is a 1TB disk, or spinner, at 7200 RPM.  It is less than half full.  My local Mac retailer/Apple authorized repair center has had me run software tests on the drive and send the findings to them.  They report the drive is good.

The LR on the G5 tower is old, v2 so, yes, I realize there are performance updates that would likely impact overall load time, but I’m not running a bunch of presets like some people.  I barely have more than the default sets.  One would also hope (perhaps futilely) that a 10+ year old computer and older software would not supersede  the performance of a current iteration on a relatively new computer.

When I was running the fully installed v5 on this same iMac before going to CC, the load time was 1/10 what it has become lately.

I’ll check out the link to standard troubleshooting you included, although I suspect I’ve been through them already.  I’ve been working on this a long enough time that most of the usual stuff has been tried."_

That was followed by:

_"After finding the suggestion to re-set Preferences with the new CC procedure in your tips, I did so, and LR opened in 30 seconds or so, and that for the first time today; it would ordinarily have taken at least 4-5X that long.

It opened to the very small catalog I’d created for testing purposes, so I switched over to the usual catalog and it launched in 3 seconds.  Of course, it’s in the RAM now, but I haven’t ever seen anything happen in 3 seconds before this.  It’ll be another 4-5 hours before I can test this development further, but this is the first hopeful sign in a month of seeking a solution."_

And finally:

_"the reset of the prefs did not last, despite my enthusiasm in the previous email.  The first launch after “resting” the RAM for a few hours took 3 mins 14 secs."_


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## Victoria Bampton

I would expect LR6 to take a lot longer to load than LR2 because the program's HUGE by comparison.  That said, I wouldn't expect it to take 2-5 minutes on any machine.  30 seconds sounds much more normal on a spinning disk.

When you did the first launching after 'resting', did that open to the small test catalog or your main one?  What I'm trying to find out is whether opening from 'cold' is heavily affected by which catalog, as that'll give us more clues on where to look.  And at what point are you stopping the timer (e.g. splash screen, main window open, all folders populated, etc.)


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## Johan Elzenga

This looks a bit like a bug I have reported already. On my iMac, Lightroom will start quickly but after a few seconds I'll get the spinning disk. Then I'll have to wait a few minutes before Lightroom wakes up again. After that everything seems normal, but it's still very annoying.


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## davidedric

If re-setting the Preferences fixed the problem temporarily, but it then returned, is it possible that "something" is corrupting the Preferences file?

Dave


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## Dave Miller

JohanElzenga said:


> This looks a bit like a bug I have reported already. On my iMac, Lightroom will start quickly but after a few seconds I'll get the spinning disk. Then I'll have to wait a few minutes before Lightroom wakes up again. After that everything seems normal, but it's still very annoying.



That is my experience too. I also have a delay after accessing the Library and going into one of the other modules such as Print or Develop for the first time. It's behaviour that started with (I think) the change to Ver6. Once each part is opened I can swop between them instantly.


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## jrbehm

Victoria Bampton said:


> When you did the first launching after 'resting', did that open to the small test catalog or your main one?  What I'm trying to find out is whether opening from 'cold' is heavily affected by which catalog, as that'll give us more clues on where to look.  And at what point are you stopping the timer (e.g. splash screen, main window open, all folders populated, etc.)



In answer to Victoria's questions, A) after resting, Lightroom opened to the full catalog, which is where I'd left it, intentionally wanting to test whether there was a real difference between catalog sizes.  So far, I don't think there is.  I've had cold launches to the small catalog take 3 minutes as well.  B) The point at which I stopped the timer was when the library page fully populated.  Unfortunately nothing would respond for an additional 40 seconds, so I counted "one thousand one, one thousand two..." just as I used to during burning and dodging in the darkroom, and added that to the total.  I figure, if it's not responding, it's not open.

All in all, the more recent CC versions of Lightroom have slowed other performance areas for me in addition to the launch time, as outlined by Dave Miller above.  The most annoying, though, is the cold launch.  Second most, the delay in switching between Modules, especially the first time after a cold launch.  If I had known these frustrations were part of converting to CC, I would not have done it.


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## tspear

For those with slow performance, what plugins do you have installed?
I had a plugin which when I first upgraded to 6 caused all sorts of slowness and strange behavior. (It was some geo thing I was testing/playing with and forgot about).

Tim


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## jrbehm

Speaking only for myself, I have virtually nothing in CC that isn't default.  As of right now, I suspect either a bug in the software or a problem with the read/write on the drive.  I've submitted a bunch of diagnostic HD tests to the local Apple retailer and repair center, which they say indicates all is well with it.  Next week I may take the iMac in for diagnosis on the bench.

By the way, is the fact that the iMac I have it on is a single core i5 a significant factor?


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## Johan Elzenga

I have done quite a bit of checking before I reported it as a bug. It happened after I updated from CC2015.3 to 2015.4 and downgrading to CC2015.3 solves it. It is not due to corrupt preferences and it is not caused by any plugin. Nothing else in the Lightroom settings is causing it either. I sent a Console report to Adobe, and they thought that Lightroom is waiting for some disk activity, but they never reported back after that.


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## tspear

It might. Lr is very CPU and IO intensive. 
Run "Activity Monitor" when you start Lr and see if there are any obvious constraints. e.g. The CPU is spiked, the disk is thrashing....

Tim


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## jrbehm

I'm not comfortable or conversant with how to downgrade to CC2015.3, since it's an online app, but would welcome input so I might try it as another option.  Still, the problem I'm troubleshooting is several weeks old, which I think means it predates v.4.  

Tim, what would I look for on activity monitor to tell me whether it's spiked or thrashing?  I'm not familiar with using that particular tool in the ways you describe.


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## Johan Elzenga

tspear said:


> It might. Lr is very CPU and IO intensive.
> Run "Activity Monitor" when you start Lr and see if there are any obvious constraints. e.g. The CPU is spiked, the disk is thrashing....



I checked this too before I sent the bug report to Adobe. CPU is at 99%, and Activity Monitor shows 'Application not responding'. Believe me, I checked everything humanly possible. The ball is now in Adobes court.


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## tspear

On the CPU page/tab; look at the graph on the bottom. If you see the CPU over 60% continuously then you are likely CPU limited. If the CPU spikes (goes over 80% and then drops to 20-30 and back to 80%) then the CPU is likely waiting on some other resource.

As a general rule of thumb, Windows/Mac cannot sustain over 60% CPU for many applications because the CPU is so much faster then the disk and memory. Sometimes, you get very CPU intensive applications (e.g. Lightroom) which are able to saturate the CPU for a while.


Tim


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## tspear

JohanElzenga said:


> I checked this too before I sent the bug report to Adobe. CPU is at 99%, and Activity Monitor shows 'Application not responding'. Believe me, I checked everything humanly possible. The ball is now in Adobes court.



Good luck,

Tim


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## jrbehm

OK.  It took 2 min 44secs to open cold to the large catalog and to respond to a click on an image. In watching the Activity Monitor, for most of that time it said "Lightroom Not Responding" in red letters.  The % of CPU during start up was usually 5% or less, with an occasional bounce to 8-9%.  The graph at center-bottom of the monitor was always close to baseline.  Once into the library, clicking on the Develop module ran the CPU for LR to 172%  Switching back to Library took 185%.
 Not sure if those are meaningful or not.


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## tspear

Yes, that means on startup Lr is waiting on something else.
Try again, this time stay on the "Disk" tab/page for the activity monitor. Tell me what the graph shows, and eyeball what the data read/second and write/second state.

Tim


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## jrbehm

OK.  It was no longer a cold start, but still took nearly a minute before it was open and the page was active.  The blue portion of the graph was fairly close to top of the range throughout, and the data read/sec was mostly 5-10MB while write was mostly 512KB to2MB

Would  a screen grab be useful?


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## tspear

Sorry, went out for the day.
If the I/O is only 5-12MB total; I doubt you are constrained by the disk. But let us check, by using a disk speed test.
Here is a quick overview:
How-To: Benchmark your Mac with these three free downloads

They suggest Blackmagic SpeedTest for your hard disk. So if the speed test shows that your disk throughput is only 10-15 MB total then Lr is constrained by the speed of your disk. If you performance is much higher then Lr is being blocked by something else. 

I am starting to suspect that Lr is "phoning" home and there is no answer. So the system is waiting for network timeouts. But we should eliminate the disk constrain in terms of performance.

Tim


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## jrbehm

I have a bunch of Black Magic Speed tests I can send you.  It's the main app my mac store has been having me use and send to them.  I'll hope a typical screen shot from the app will load here.


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## tspear

Cool, so you disk is running about 5% and the CPU is also about 5%.
This almost guarantees the network is the issue. Try this. Disable all the networks, then start Lr.
When the networks are turned off, the system should return back to Lr very quickly instead of timing out.

Tim


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## instanes

I am following this thread with interest.  I too experience slow downs with the start up time with subsequent launches of the program.  Resetting preferences results in a start up time of about 20 seconds, but over time(with subsequent launches) that time gradually degrades.  For instance the second launch today took 35 seconds.  From past experience it will eventually reach about a minute.  Nothing like the original poster, but keeping the launch time to 20-30 seconds would be most delightful.

I am using El Capitan...there apparently is a bug in the new forum software, because when I try to update my profile I get an error message that all required fields need to have an entry...or some such.


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## instanes

instanes said:


> I am following this thread with interest.  I too experience slow downs with the start up time with subsequent launches of the program.  Resetting preferences results in a start up time of about 20 seconds, but over time(with subsequent launches) that time gradually degrades.  For instance the second launch today took 35 seconds.  From past experience it will eventually reach about a minute.  Nothing like the original poster, but keeping the launch time to 20-30 seconds would be most delightful.
> 
> I am using El Capitan...there apparently is a bug in the new forum software, because when I try to update my profile I get an error message that all required fields need to have an entry...or some such.


Aha, there is no bug in the system....I had not noticed that there was a subtext "required" under some of the profile categories.


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## jrbehm

Tim, Sorry, just saw this and I apologize for the slow response.  I really don't want to seem unappreciative.

Please clarify what you mean when you say "turn off networks".  Do you mean just the connection by ethernet to the G5 Mac, and if so, do you mean just eject the disk icon from the iMac desktop, or do you mean unplug the cable?  Also, does it apply to external drives and to my WiFi based internet connection?


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## jrbehm

I've been searching for an answer to this dilemma for a month or more without success.  Sorry to say, the tips I've received elsewhere haven't worked, but I just found this forum.  I'm running the latest LR CC update on a late 2012 iMac 27" with 24GB RAM, 2.9 GHz Intel Core i5, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M graphics card, and a 1TB HD with 565GB free space. The OS is the latest update to Yosemite.  I've had all the hardware checked for read/write issues, and it checks out OK.  The catalog and the image files are stored on the Hard Drive, in the usual place on a Mac, the Pictures folder.  Internet is Xfiniity Burst, with TX speeds of around 240-300Mbps.  I had thought it could be bottlenecked at initial startup, checking with Adobe, but those speeds shouldn't create that, I don't think.

By comparison, Lightroom fully installed (the old fashioned way) on my G5 PPC mac tower opens in 8-12 seconds.  The CC version on the iMac above opens in anywhere from 2 minutes to 5 minutes, and often remains inert for as much as 2 minutes after the library page shows up, before I can access an image.  It can take a minute or so for the splash page to show up.

Going back to the G5 tower, that Lightroom has nearly 22,000 images in the catalog currently in use, and has had as many as 40-50 thousand.  It never made much difference in time to open.  Since some folks I've asked have suggested I reduce the size of the iMac's  LR CC catalog from its current 17,300 images, I made a test catalog of 36 RAW files.  It took 1 minute 50 seconds to open which isn't a winner.

One other odd facet to this concerns multiple openings of the software in one day.  Usually when working, I open LR and keep it open until I export and start using Photoshop, at which time I shut down LR so they aren't competing for the 24GB of RAM.  So, I usually experience one opening a day, taking an excruciating 2-5 minutes.  Since I've been seeking solutions to the length of time that takes or at least why, I've been opening and closing Lightroom several times a day, something that wouldn't happen ordinarily. What's occurred is this: Subsequent openings of LR within short period from the original will open in from 8-24 seconds, repeatedly.  If I shut it down and rest it for 4 or 5 hours, or over night, we're back to the extremely long start up times. 

I am very interested in resolving whatever issue this is, and in hearing from members who might know what's going on.


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## tspear

No problem. 
Turn of the WiFi, and disconnect the network cables. The idea is when you go into System Preferences -> Network; everything has a red dot next to it.

Tim


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## jrbehm

OK, Tim.  I disconnected all networks and had red dots in the network prefs panel.  Launched lightroom this morning, cold.  It took 20 seconds for the splash panel to show, 1 minute 35 seconds for the actual application window to show and another 15 seconds before clicking on anything within that window had any effect.  So, eliminating the network yields an improvement but not a great one. Certainly not back to the launch of LR 5 and all previous full installations, pre-CC.    Thanks again for walking me through this stuff.


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## tspear

Then we need to punt to Adobe. 
Ideally, they should give you some directions to log the data from dtruss to find what/why the application is pausing.
We have shown they have no obvious resource contention.

Good luck.


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## jrbehm

I see that "good luck" and wonder if it's because they aren't likely to respond.  That said, how do I accomplish what you just said above? 

To me, what's interesting is, there don't seem to be a whole lot of us experiencing this, but there are a number of us, and over the several weeks I've been searching for solutions, it seems that number is growing.  My concerns in going to CC were twofold: rate hikes hijacking us and problems with software performance in a cloud environment.  In my case, I'm one for two.


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## tspear

jrbehm said:


> I see that "good luck" and wonder if it's because they aren't likely to respond.  That said, how do I accomplish what you just said above?
> 
> To me, what's interesting is, there don't seem to be a whole lot of us experiencing this, but there are a number of us, and over the several weeks I've been searching for solutions, it seems that number is growing.  My concerns in going to CC were twofold: rate hikes hijacking us and problems with software performance in a cloud environment.  In my case, I'm one for two.



The "good luck" was exactly that. No more no less. Solving these kind of performance problems can be very time consuming and frustrating from a software development perspective. There are many variables, limited tools and limited items a company may be able to perform (mostly from a perceived liability aspect) which make this type of debugging much harder. So I understand a lot of the constraints the support and development teams at Adobe are operating under. I would suggest contacting Adobe support, giving them all the items we tested and eliminated; and how we eliminated each one.

I should point out, there is nothing here you have mentioned which is in the "cloud". Everything we have tested is local. 

Now, with that stated. It now occurs to me, do you have Lightroom Mobile? Have you setup the sync? I do not have this setup, so I know very little about it. But I wonder if this might be a culprit.


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## jrbehm

I'll do what you suggest, thanks.  As for the mobile, no I haven't activated that. I really don't want to work from iPad or iPhone on images, so never took advantage of it. Most of my work is for ad and commercial clients and I want to work on it in a more controlled environment.  If I hear back from Adobe I'll pass it along here.


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## jrbehm

I had disconnected from Adobe's CC for a bit while testing and just reconnected.  I received a notice of an update on Adobe's CC that came out on the 14th (2 days ago at this writing)  which I decided to investigate further before installing.   When I did that, I learned I had not installed an update from December that had to do with LR crashing upon opening (see attached).  Is there any chance that all this is a result of not installing that update?


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## Victoria Bampton

It would definitely be worth updating to the latest versions to see if that helps.


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## jrbehm

Updated and tried it, no improvement.  cold start was 2:45  Per Tim's suggestion, I'm preparing a recap of what we've done here to send Adobe.  Is it OK to link to this thread?  Will they even look??


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## Victoria Bampton

Definitely worth a shot.  I'd guess you have the same issue that Johan reported a week or so back.


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## jrbehm

I started a chat with Adobe Customer Service, and they asked to commandeer my computer for the fix.  Mostly what it looked like they did is replace the Lightroom 6 plist.  As soon as that was done it appears to be MUCH faster, but as I've already learned, that's not necessarily true 4 hours later.  We'll see, but that's the latest.


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## jrbehm

Cold start this AM, 2min 45 secs.  The plist didn't fix it.


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## Johan Elzenga

My problem is just solved! It turns out you need to set the permissions to 'Read & Write' on three folders: Lightroom CC 2015.4/Lightroom 6.4, Photoshop, or Bridge crashes or hangs on launch. These folders already had correct permissions in my case, but apparently there was some subfolder that didn't. The trick is to click the wheel button and use 'Apply to enclosed items', to make sure that all subfolders also have correct permissions.


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## Jim Wilde

Good news! But a bit odd, wonder why/how the permissions got changed (since they must have been OK pre-6.4), and why only some OSX users are affected.


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## Johan Elzenga

Jim Wilde said:


> Good news! But a bit odd, wonder why/how the permissions got changed (since they must have been OK pre-6.4), and why only some OSX users are affected.



Permission problems are not uncommon, and they always only happen to some of us. The biggest problem is to know which folders could be involved, because it's often rather obscure folders like cache folders.


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## jrbehm

Tried it, no joy.  3 mins 24 secs.  

The top guy at the local Mac store just reviewed the test results I emailed to one of his minions, and he told me the fact that my tests in Black Magic Speed test had a range of readings from around 85 Mb/s to 95 and then to 104 is an indicator that the read/write is having a problem, perhaps with small packets, who knows?  The speeds were roughly equal between read and write, but the range shouldn't be there, and certainly not that wide.  Next step, take the iMac in.


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## ashleywestleonard

I was so excited to find a thread so perfectly dedicated to my horrible problem, and am now feeling defeated as I have tried all of the above to no avail.  Averaging 3-5 minutes to open completely.

jrbehm, I'm eager to hear how things pan out for you.  Thanks so much for sharing.  

FWIW, my stats:
iMac 27", mid 2011
Yosemite 10.10.5
3.4GHz Intel Core i7
32GB RAM
300GB free out of 1TB


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## Victoria Bampton

Sorry to hear you guys are all having problems.  Have you all tried these steps: Lightroom CC 2015.4/Lightroom 6.4, Photoshop, or Bridge crashes or hangs on launch, and made sure you 'applied to all enclosed items' too?

And Ashley, welcome to the forum!  If you're still on 2015.0, have you tried updating to 2015.4?


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## ashleywestleonard

Victoria Bampton said:


> Sorry to hear you guys are all having problems.  Have you all tried these steps: Lightroom CC 2015.4/Lightroom 6.4, Photoshop, or Bridge crashes or hangs on launch, and made sure you 'applied to all enclosed items' too?
> 
> And Ashley, welcome to the forum!  If you're still on 2015.0, have you tried updating to 2015.4?



Hi Victoria, and thanks for the welcome wagon.  I did try the steps you mentioned and updated to 2015.4 but sadly the open time seems to have gotten longer!  I tried running the Blackmagic speed test, but honestly I have no idea what I'm looking for in the results.  I also tried running the Apple Hardware Test, but it crashes each time.  Perhaps I have some bad RAM?  I may just take the computer to Apple this weekend.  I'll be sure to post here if I have news to share!

Thanks.


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## tspear

ashleywestleonard said:


> Hi Victoria, and thanks for the welcome wagon.  I did try the steps you mentioned and updated to 2015.4 but sadly the open time seems to have gotten longer!  I tried running the Blackmagic speed test, but honestly I have no idea what I'm looking for in the results.  I also tried running the Apple Hardware Test, but it crashes each time.  Perhaps I have some bad RAM?  I may just take the computer to Apple this weekend.  I'll be sure to post here if I have news to share!
> 
> Thanks.



If the Apple Hardware test fails, then you have an issue. Take to them to fix; preferably backup everything first!
The Blackmagic speed test should show you two pieces of information. One the speed of your disk drives, two the speed should be even. Not spike and slow. Huge variations in performance tests generally indicate the hardware is starting to go.

Tim


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## ashleywestleonard

tspear said:


> If the Apple Hardware test fails, then you have an issue. Take to them to fix; preferably backup everything first!
> The Blackmagic speed test should show you two pieces of information. One the speed of your disk drives, two the speed should be even. Not spike and slow. Huge variations in performance tests generally indicate the hardware is starting to go.
> 
> Tim



Thanks for the tips, Tim!  Just made my appointment with the Geniuses, fingers crossed.


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## instanes

Was there ever any resolution to this issue???


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## jrbehm

There was finally resolution for my own problem (as the the OP), this past Friday (March 11, 2016).  After trying all the suggested software fixes and running hardware testing, the Apple reseller near me asked that I bring the iMac in for them to diagnose.  I did, as soon as I finished a project I didn't want to switch to another computer. 

It turns out that, when I had the iMac in for a RAM upgrade, the technician installed the wrong RAM.  This time, as soon as I got it home and reset the PRAM, the slowness was gone.  I realize this is not going to be the case for almost anyone else.   It does raise the question "How could that happen?", but it also makes me happy I didn't do the RAM upgrade myself with that kind of error, because they assumed all responsibility for correcting it.


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## jrbehm

Another addition:  Last night I upgraded the iMac 27" to El Capitan.  Today was the first time I'd opened LR CC since the upgrade.  It took 13 seconds for the badge to show up, and 1 minute 37 seconds total for it to be operational.  That's not screaming fast, but its half to a third as long as it used to take.  I count that as progress and something I can live with.


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## instanes

I recently upgraded to 10.11.4 and LR is opening a few seconds faster for me as well.  About 7 seconds to the splash screen and just under 40 seconds to thumbnails.....we will see.  Resetting preferences and or signing out and then back in to Creative Cloud results in launch times of half those numbers.  Subsequent launches then take longer and longer....hopefully either Apple or Adobe will figure this out and come up with an upgrade that addresses the launch time.


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