# Edit only the sky / white area?



## Biff (Sep 25, 2018)

7


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## DGStinner (Sep 25, 2018)

Without further details, I'd suggest using one of the local adjustments (gradient filter, local adjustment brush)


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## clee01l (Sep 25, 2018)

DGStinner said:


> Without further details, I'd suggest using one of the local adjustments (gradient filter, local adjustment brush)


Also the Split Toning panel could be useful.  

If you have a "white" sky and want it to be blue, then in the HSL panel you can adjust the Blue luminance value to darken the blue pixels that are in the sky.


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## Biff (Sep 25, 2018)

> Without further details, I'd suggest using one of the local adjustments (gradient filter, local adjustment brush)


Yes, that was my thought as well, but I do not know how to use them sensefully.



> If you have a "white" sky and want it to be blue, then in the HSL panel you can adjust the Blue luminance value to darken the blue pixels that are in the sky.


Nothing seems to happen when I try the sliders:






Respectively when I draw the sliders in the other direction some areas get blue which ought to be like they are:





When I change the settings here everything else seems to change but the sky:


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## DGStinner (Sep 25, 2018)

If you've completely blown out your highlights, including the sky, moving sliders isn't going to help.  You might be better off replacing the sky in Ps.


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## clee01l (Sep 25, 2018)

HSL panel consists of three parts (Hue, Saturation & Luminance)  You need to decrease the blue *Luminance*.  If there are any blue pixels available, then lowering the luminance will make them less "white"  and increase the color value. 
As Dave has suggested, if you exposed for the foreground and overexposed the sky background, the only color recorded in the sky might be white. Also, you need to shoot RAW otherwise the in camera White Balance setting will clobber any color pixels that are approaching overexposure.


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## Biff (Sep 25, 2018)

Many thanks!

Sorry, actually this should have been there instead of "7":

How could I edit (exposure, blacks, etc.) the sky / white area without effecting the other area:







And how could I make LR let me edit the area in (not outside) the oval of the radial filter and the other side of the graduated filter?






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> If you've completely blown out your highlights, including the sky, moving sliders isn't going to help. You might be better off replacing the sky in Ps.


I guess, Photoshop (is it the meaning of Ps?) is much too complicated for me.



> HSL panel consists of three parts (Hue, Saturation & Luminance) You need to decrease the blue Luminance. If there are any blue pixels available, then lowering the luminance will make them less "white" and increase the color value.


Yes, doing that does not bring any blue pixel to the sky but to other areas.



> As Dave has suggested, if you exposed for the foreground and overexposed the sky background, the only color recorded in the sky might be white. Also, you need to shoot RAW otherwise the in camera White Balance setting will clobber any color pixels that are approaching overexposure.


Yes, it is raw, CR2.

How could I make the brush / the radial filter edit what is in that oval instead of outside?


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## clee01l (Sep 25, 2018)

Biff said:


> Many thanks!
> How could I make the brush / the radial filter edit what is in that oval instead of outside?


Check the check box labeled "Invert" to reverse the area that is affected by the Radial Filter. 
FWIW, you can't make a silk purse...   If the only pixels are white there is no way to bring out any blue.    These are tasks better suited for before the shutter adjustments (HDR) or a photo editing tool like PS.


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## Biff (Sep 25, 2018)

Ah yes, found it at the bottom.

Yes, only white pixels, no way obviously. Yes, HDR would have been good for this.

Many thanks!


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## msmack (Sep 26, 2018)

You can go to the adjustment brush.  At the bottom of the adjustment brush panel, there is a little white box with an x in it.  Click on the x and pick a blue that you think will work.   Make sure Auto Mask is checked so you can stay in the  lines.   Bring exposure down far enough so you can see something happening when you start painting with the brush.  Have Density at 100 and Flow at 100. For this image you will have to go over the trees which you won't notice much.   Use the exposure slider to decide how light or dark you want the color.  Use the saturation slider if necessary


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## msmack (Sep 26, 2018)

I tried attaching a file but it didn't show up.  If someone can tell me how to attach a file I can send it.


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## Biff (Sep 26, 2018)

Many thanks!



> there is a little white box with an x in it.


This one?







> Bring exposure down far enough so you can see something happening when you start painting with the brush.


Why does it work with exposure or other slider only and not alone?



> Make sure Auto Mask is checked so you can stay in the lines.


I cannot see any difference, checked or not, what does it do?



> For this image you will have to go over the trees which you won't notice much.


Looks like that at the moment:





The settings:





Yes, it somehow works, but my painting skills do not seem to be available somehow. What is the best method to draw a sky this way? E.g. moving the brush to the same direction, dabbing or such?


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## Biff (Sep 26, 2018)

Yes, the attaching option does not work here as well, obviously, I tryied to attach a png image:


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## Dan Marchant (Sep 27, 2018)

Put simply Lightroom isn't suitable for the task at hand. To explain....

Lightroom is a RAW processor. It is used to process/enhance the RAW sensor data from your camera. It is not a pixel editor like Photoshop and as such is not very good at creating data that doesn't exist. 

You have an overexposed sky where all the image and colour data (cloud details and sky colour) have been lost. The only data remaining is pure white. You need to create new data (draw clouds) or add in data from another photograph (cut out a sky and stick it into your image). Lightroom can't do this. It also isn't very good at painting in colour because it's colour tool is affected by the existing data. So, if you select a dark red and paint that over a bright white you end up with pink. To get the dark red that you wanted you then need to mess around with the exposure/highlight sliders but even with this there is only limited control of the end result.

You really need to using a pixel editor like Photoshop. If you do a search for "sky replacement in photoshop" you will get lots of tutorials that will show you how to do it.


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## Biff (Sep 27, 2018)

So a raw processor (PS cannot do that? As good as LR can at least?) is a program to actually just convert images (and make small changes to them) from the raw format to an image like jpg, tif, png. And after (if need be / wanted) one would use a pixel editor like PS with many more options to (may be completely) edit the image.


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## clee01l (Sep 27, 2018)

Click on the image icon in the tool bar to add images to the thread:


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## clee01l (Sep 27, 2018)

Biff said:


> So a raw processor (PS cannot do that? As good as LR can at least?) is a program to actually just convert images (and make small changes to them) from the raw format to an image like jpg, tif, png. And after (if need be / wanted) one would use a pixel editor like PS with many more options to (may be completely) edit the image.


The problem with your image is the data.  You simply do not have any color in the sky because the blues are blown out to begin with.   An app like PS can paint color (i.e. turn white pixels into blue pixels).


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## Biff (Sep 27, 2018)

> Click on the image icon in the tool bar to add images to the thread:


Alright, thank you!



> So a raw processor (PS cannot do that? As good as LR can at least?) is a program to actually just convert images (and make small changes to them) from the raw format to an image like jpg, tif, png. And after (if need be / wanted) one would use a pixel editor like PS with many more options to (may be completely) edit the image.
> The problem with your image is the data. You simply do not have any color in the sky because the blues are blown out to begin with. An app like PS can paint color (i.e. turn white pixels into blue pixels).


Yes yes, I had understand that, just no information there, but my explanation above is correct?


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## clee01l (Sep 27, 2018)

Raw data is simply an amplitude value that measured at a photo site. These photo sites have a color filter that only passes red, green or blue light to be measured if the value recorded is the max for all three filters, then the result is white light. Raw conversion gathers measured values from ( usually) 4 photo sites to produce RGB pixels with values for all three colors.   This does not become a JPG, TIF, PNG etc. until a derivative file is created.   Filter processes in LR can only work with the data available.  Pixel manipulating editors can replace pixels and create color data. This is the basic difference between non destructive editors like LR and destructive editors like PS.  PS has tools to surgically accomplish what you wasn’t. LR does not. LR has tools that only work on the RGB created from the RAW data. 
Though somewhat simplified, I hope this explains better how LR can work with images


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## Biff (Sep 27, 2018)

OK, thank you very much for the understandable explanation!


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## msmack (Sep 29, 2018)

I still say you can some color using the adjustment brush.  It is not the greatest tool but for a little color it can be done.  It takes practice to find the right settings.

I have attached an image whereas I put blue in the sky.  It might not be the right blue, it might not be dark enough or light enough but with picking the color and using the sliders you can come up with the color you want.

The Auto Mask keeps you inside the lines.  For instance if you were to go near the roof of the building the color would not be applied there.  You have to paint carefully but the Auto Mask will help you.   

How many times you run the brush in your picture depends on your density and flow at the bottom of the panel under the color box.  You have them both set to 100.  If you lower the density it will not be  as saturated, if you lower the flow, you can brush more times.  You will have to read up on density and flow and they should be used with all sliders not just the color.  If both are at 100 then you only get one time to brush, you cannot build up.


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## Tony Jay (Sep 29, 2018)

Having actually seen the image in question (admittedly just a screen grab) I would not use local editing tools at all.

I would just pull down the highlights right down to -100! and then I would push the whites down slowly until the blinkies stop.
The immediate result of this would be to confirm whether or not that sky is really blown or not...
If the sky really is blown then even trying to remediate that image in a pixel editor would just be a long and painful process...

If the sky is not blown then doing the above edits will recover the detail in the sky (such as it is). If the trees and house in the foreground  have gotten a little dark then just restore that by pushing the shadows slider up - season to taste.

Tony Jay


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## Biff (Sep 29, 2018)

> I still say you can some color using the adjustment brush. It is not the greatest tool but for a little color it can be done. It takes practice to find the right settings.


Yes, it really works. Many thanks for the demo image and trying!

How could one unsharpen / get a smooth gradient of the edge of the brush?



> The Auto Mask keeps you inside the lines. For instance if you were to go near the roof of the building the color would not be applied there. You have to paint carefully but the Auto Mask will help you.



I cannot get "Auto Mask" to work, when I brush over the house (or a tree) it gets painted:












> The immediate result of this would be to confirm whether or not that sky is really blown or not...


Yes, indeed:












> If the sky really is blown then even trying to remediate that image in a pixel editor would just be a long and painful process...


I would have thought with PS it could be done very fast and easily, if somebody knows how to do it.


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## Johan Elzenga (Sep 29, 2018)

Biff said:


> I cannot get "Auto Mask" to work, when I brush over the house (or a tree) it gets painted


Of course it does. That is not how auto mask works. Auto mask paints only the area defined by the pixels under the plus in the middle of the brush. If the edge of the brush goes over the house or the tree, while the centre of the brush is still over the sky, then the house or tree won’t get painted. However, when you move the entire brush over the house or tree, as shown in your video, then Lightroom assumes that you do want to paint that as well.


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## Biff (Sep 29, 2018)

OK, got it working now. Many thanks!


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