# LR6.1 Haze Removal Panel missing



## MacZonie

Hi,

Just updated to 6.1 but there is no Haze Removal slider in the Effects panel. What am I missing?

Thanks.


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## Jim Wilde

Hi, welcome to the forum.

The new Dehaze feature is only available to the CC subscription users, so if you're running the perpetual license version then you won't see that slider.


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## Jimmsp

Did you update through the Creative Cloud?
This is a new feature of CC/6, not the perpetual version.


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## MacZonie

OK, thanks guys. I found the Prolost haze preset that seem to do the job nicely. It's a shame that apparently Adobe won't be adding features to the "perpetual" license. I would never do this with my software product but then that's me.


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## Jim Wilde

Adobe has never added new features to Lightroom in "dot" releases, apart from occasionally in the ".1" release, so nothing has changed for perpetual license holders. This is actually an accounting rules issue, as those rules strictly forbid new features to be added except before the end of the accounting period following launch. This time around (presumably because of the perceived delay in the 6.0 release), the accounting period has ended, so even if it had wanted to Adobe could not have included any new features in the 6.1 release.

It was also made very clear that this divergence between perpetual and subscription models would likely continue.


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## clee01l

Jim Wilde said:


> Adobe has never added new features to Lightroom in "dot" releases, apart from occasionally in the ".1" release, so nothing has changed for perpetual license holders. This is actually an accounting rules issue, as those rules strictly forbid new features to be added except before the end of the accounting period following launch. This time around (presumably because of the perceived delay in the 6.0 release), the accounting period has ended, so even if it had wanted to Adobe could not have included any new features in the 6.1 release.
> 
> It was also made very clear that this divergence between perpetual and subscription models would likely continue.


  It also may very well be that these features will show up in the next paid release (LR7).  This was the case with new functionality that was added to ACR 8.x and not added to LR until LR6.


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## MVPinFLA

Jim Wilde said:


> Adobe has never added new features to Lightroom in "dot" releases, apart from occasionally in the ".1" release, so nothing has changed for perpetual license holders. This is actually an accounting rules issue, as those rules strictly forbid new features to be added except before the end of the accounting period following launch. This time around (presumably because of the perceived delay in the 6.0 release), the accounting period has ended, so even if it had wanted to Adobe could not have included any new features in the 6.1 release.
> 
> It was also made very clear that this divergence between perpetual and subscription models would likely continue.




I am a CPA and can't understand where an accounting rule would "forbid" a software company from doing anything with their product that they wanted to do.  It could impact when they right off the costs; but that is another issue.  I think not giving it to perpetual owners is to provide incentive to purchase LR 7 when released or just buy CC.  I am certainly glad that I am a CC user.  I am most impressed with the dehazing tool.


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## Jim Wilde

I'm not a CPA, so I may have phrased it badly.....but trust me, there are some rules somewhere that govern this issue. I'll try to get you the reference.


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## Jim Wilde

Check out the Sarbanes-Oxley act.


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## MVPinFLA

Jim Wilde said:


> I'm not a CPA, so I may have phrased it badly.....but trust me, there are some rules somewhere that govern this issue. I'll try to get you the reference.


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]
Don't worry about it Jim. I'm retired and no longer need to know.   I'm just glad we got the update. [/FONT]


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## davidedric

Subscription is clearly Adobe's preferred licensing model.  Therefore, Adobe will, subtly or not, make it increasingly attractive to move to that model.  I think that's all you really need to know.  Plus, of course, whether Adobe's blandishments are compelling for you.

Dave


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## dovbaer

I just updated my LRCC and I don't see the de-haze slider.


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## dovbaer

Okay. I found it. Turns out it was a 2 step process to update and I hadn't completed it. Looking forward to trying it out.


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## camner

Another thing that can lead to the DeHaze slider not appearing is if the image was originally developed with an earlier process version (I didn't discover this myself...I learned it from a Laura Shoe video that briefly described the new features in the LRCC June update...credit where credit is due)


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## Denis Pagé

camner said:


> Another thing that can lead to the DeHaze slider not appearing is if the image was originally developed with an earlier process version ...



In fact, the Dehaze control is always there. It is just grayed out an unavailable with previous process version. This is what I saw a few minutes ago with a 2003 Process image.


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## camner

Denis Pagé said:


> In fact, the Dehaze control is always there. It is just grayed out an unavailable with previous process version. This is what I saw a few minutes ago with a 2003 Process image.


Correct. I didn't phrase what I meant as precisely as I could have.  By "not appearing" I meant "greyed out and unavailable"...but you are right that it would have been better to have phrased it that way to be clearer to folks about what they are seeing.  Thanks for the clarification.

By the way, I also recently came across this post http://prolost.com which claims to have a "workaround" that makes the ability to use DeHaze available for LR6.1 (standalone).  I do NOT have LR6 (standalone), so I cannot vouch for this approach.


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## mhilbush

The code is in LR 6.1, just no slider on the UI.  You can create and edit some of your own presets that apply the effect.  I created presets in increments of 10 from -100 to +100.

See this post.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55998101

Not to split hairs, but how does this revenue recognition issue that prevents them from including features in "unpaid for releases" distinguish between these two scenarios?
- in the product but not accessible from the UI
- in the product but accessible from the UI


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## johnbeardy

MVPinFLA said:


> I am a CPA and can't understand where an accounting rule would "forbid" a software company from doing anything with their product that they wanted to do.  It could impact when they right off the costs; but that is another issue.  I think not giving it to perpetual owners is to provide incentive to purchase LR 7 when released or just buy CC.  I am certainly glad that I am a CC user.  I am most impressed with the dehazing tool.



As an ACA who has done Sarbanes Oxley compliance consulting, I'd agree with you. "Forbid" and "can't" are the wrong words, though they are far more readily understood by those without professional experience whose eyes quickly glaze over if one tries to express the legal, accounting and organisational issues around revenue recognition procedures. Adobe _could_ release features to perpetual owners if they _really_ wanted to, but it would breach their established revenue recognition procedures. Of course, those could be changed, but as I'm sure you know, that's not something that would be done lightly, even if it's for a revenue stream that's more obviously "material", and from a corporate viewpoint you wouldn't ever want to encourage managers to imagine there's any flexibility in the policy.

John


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## johnbeardy

mhilbush said:


> Not to split hairs, but how does this revenue recognition issue that prevents them from including features in "unpaid for releases" distinguish between these two scenarios?
> - in the product but not accessible from the UI
> - in the product but accessible from the UI



Impossible to say without knowing the detail of Adobe's internal procedures for compliance with revenue recognition policies. 

That said, my guess is that they might draw the line on whether it's explicitly in the UI. If so, it's clearly a feature and falls under revenue recognition rules. If it's not in the UI, Adobe aren't actually supplying anything new - they're just leaving Lr exposed to a pretty-harmless hack.


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## camner

Jim Wilde said:


> I'm not a CPA, so I may have phrased it badly.....but trust me, there are some rules somewhere that govern this issue. I'll try to get you the reference.


And later Jim wrote





> Check out the Sarbanes-Oxley act.



I am not an accountant either, but my curiosity got piqued, so I couldn't help myself and I tried Googling this.  The best article I could come up with is this post from 2013.

My (layman's) reading of the article is this:  It is not so much that the "new" (in 2002) law PROHIBITS Adobe from adding new features to products with perpetual licenses, but that the law imposed new requirements on how a company has to record revenue and that in order to add new features to the permanent license versions they would have to change their methods of recording revenue, the implications of which are probably more than we mere (nonaccountant) mortals can possibly know.


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## johnbeardy

No, as someone who is not a layman, I'm getting a little exasperated! That post is simplistic or even misleading. Adobe is not prohibited from adding new features by Sarbanes Oxley - which is as much about establishing procedures for ensuring compliance with existing legal measures and accounting practice. If Adobe wanted to do so, they could. However, SOX and other law makes it difficult, time consuming and extremely expensive to change their financial reporting policies and procedures. Lr is far too small to contemplate deviation from their established procedures. And you really don't want to encourage managers to imagine there could be  nuances and workarounds in this area, so one would expect a company like Adobe to  give managers  clear and simple guidelines for product releases, and it looks like they are well understood.


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## Tobieo

Jim Wilde said:


> Hi, welcome to the forum.
> 
> The new Dehaze feature is only available to the CC subscription users, so if you're running the perpetual license version then you won't see that slider.



I have originally purchased LR6 as stand alone but later signed up for LR CC. I do not have the dehaze function under Effects. I have already uninstalled LR6 and installed it again from CC but no joy. If I check for updates (from Help) I get message that I have the latest version (LR6.1.1), but still no dehaze. I work on Mac with Yosemite latest OS.


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## Victoria Bampton

Hi Tobieo, welcome to the forum!  If you look in Help menu > System Info, does it say Perpetual or Subscription?  And are you on a photo that's set to Process Version 2012?


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## Tobieo

Victoria Bampton said:


> Hi Tobieo, welcome to the forum!  If you look in Help menu > System Info, does it say Perpetual or Subscription?  And are you on a photo that's set to Process Version 2012?



Thank you Victoria. I once again uninstalled LR6 and re-installed CC and it is now working.


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## Ken Cedeno

Jim Wilde said:


> Hi, welcome to the forum.
> 
> The new Dehaze feature is only available to the CC subscription users, so if you're running the perpetual license version then you won't see that slider.


I am a CC user and all up to date. It just disappeared when I restarted it. So.....?


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## MacZonie

Hi,

Just updated to 6.1 but there is no Haze Removal slider in the Effects panel. What am I missing?

Thanks.


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## clee01l

Welcome to the forum.
If you've checked the Help menu > System Info to verify that the Subscription is installed, then you can check by right clicking on any right panel header to make sure that the Effects panel is checked in the context menu.   You can hide any of the Develop panels by unchecking then in that menu.


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## Normand Fafard

Jim Wilde said:


> Hi, welcome to the forum.
> 
> The new Dehaze feature is only available to the CC subscription users, so if you're running the perpetual license version then you won't see that slider.



Hi Jim,

I am working with the CC 2015 and I do not have the Dehaze slider in my Effects module. I just checked for updates in the CC panel and no updates were suggested. What would explain that?


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## clee01l

Normand Fafard said:


> Hi Jim,
> 
> I am working with the CC 2015 and I do not have the Dehaze slider in my Effects module. I just checked for updates in the CC panel and no updates were suggested. What would explain that?


Welcome to the forum.  
The Dehaze slider is the third on in the Effects panel.  If it is not there, then you probably are not running the version of LR that you are paying for. 
Go To the menu {Help}{System Info}  In the dialog that opens copy and paste at least the first 4 lines of the large text box into a reply here.  This will tell us about the system you are running and the version of LR that you are actually using. 

For MacOS 10.12, you should have installed LRCC2015.7 for compatibility with Sierra.


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## Normand Fafard

clee01l said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> The Dehaze slider is the third on in the Effects panel.  If it is not there, then you probably are not running the version of LR that you are paying for.
> Go To the menu {Help}{System Info}  In the dialog that opens copy and paste at least the first 4 lines of the large text box into a reply here.  This will tell us about the system you are running and the version of LR that you are actually using.
> 
> For MacOS 10.12, you should have installed LRCC2015.7 for compatibility with Sierra.



Thanks for the quick reply,

Attached is the screen shot you requested of the System's info and of my Effects module. It looks like I am running a version of CC15 but not sure which one exactly. Just prior to my initial post, I checked for updates in the CC menu and none were suggested for LR nor for PS. Where else should I go to check for updates?


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## clee01l

It looks like you are running 2015.0 and have no updates applied. 
This is what is current:
_Lightroom version: CC 2015.7 [ 1090788 ]
License: Creative Cloud
Operating system: Mac OS 10
Version: 10.12 [0]_
From what I recall, the Dehaze feature was not added until CC2015.1  So this explains why you don't see it.
Based upon this your CC App Manager is probably out of date too.  It should be Version 3.8.0.310 released on 08/30/2016. You can download it here:  Download  Once you install the latest version of the CC App Mgr and log in it should tell you that there are updates for LRCC and PSCC.  In this app you can then click on the install button beside LR and the CC App Mgr will install the latest version of LRCC.


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## Normand Fafard

I did what you suggested i.e., downloaded and installed version 3.8.0.310 of the CC App Manager, disconnected and logged into the new version, did a search for updates for LR and PS (3 times). Only the PS app was updated but not LR (see the screen capture for the App Manager module - "Ouvrir" means "Open"). 

I even checked my Adobe account to make sure that I was still registered and paid-up in my CC plan - all is well at that end. What else can I try? I should tell you that I moved all my files and software to a new computer 2 weeks ago from my old Mac. Could this be the cause of my problem?

By the way, thank you very much for your perseverance. 

Normand


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## tspear

Normand,

Can you verify that there is only one copy of Lightroom installed?
Otherwise, something about the installation is likely corrupted. The standard way to fix that is to uninstall Lr, remove all traces of it including preference files, and then reinstall.


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## clee01l

Tim's comment would be my comment too.   If you do have a current version of LRCC 2015.7, you would have installed it in the last 30 days. If you click on the settings gear icon, there is s menu item "Check for app updates" What happens when you click that item?


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## Normand Fafard

clee01l said:


> Tim's comment would be my comment too.   If you do have a current version of LRCC 2015.7, you would have installed it in the last 30 days. If you click on the settings gear icon, there is s menu item "Check for app updates" What happens when you click that item?



Tim and Cletus,

After following your suggestions to the lettre, I am now running CC LR 2015,7 and the Dehaze slider is there. I did have multiple versions of LR in my Applications folder. They are all in the Trash now. 

Thank you for all the support. 

Now for my last question. How do I change from French to English (US or British) ?


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## tspear

Normand,

Sorry, I have never touched the languages. Only suggestion I would have would be to change the default language in the Mac before starting Lr.
Hopefully someone will come along that actually knows the answer.


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## Normand Fafard

Thanks anyway. This is not critical to me, but all my books and tutorials are in English, so I want to work with LR in English.


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## Rob_Cullen

Language-
Have you tied changing in Preferences?


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## Normand Fafard

Thank you. Took me a whole 8 seconds and I got the English back.


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## lbeck

Jim Wilde said:


> Hi, welcome to the forum.
> 
> The new Dehaze feature is only available to the CC subscription users, so if you're running the perpetual license version then you won't see that slider.


Old thread with my problem...
I can't get the dehaze.  So this feature still is not available to us poor perpetual licensees?

Lightroom version: 6.10.1 [ 1117303 ]
License: Perpetual
Operating system: Windows 10
Version: 10.0


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## PhilBurton

lbeck said:


> Old thread with my problem...
> I can't get the dehaze.  So this feature still is not available to us poor perpetual licensees?
> 
> Lightroom version: 6.10.1 [ 1117303 ]
> License: Perpetual
> Operating system: Windows 10
> Version: 10.0



Short answer:  Either you sign up for Lightroom CC or you are out of luck, until if/when/ever there is a Lightroom 7 perpetual license.  LR 7 is much-discussed, but there is no indication to date that Adobe plans such a release.


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## lbeck

Thanks for the quick/short answer.

Curious... Why is Adobe prejudiced against users who want to pay once rather than perpetually?  Short answer - likely to extort more revenue - but is there a technical reason??


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## Victoria Bampton

lbeck said:


> - but is there a technical reason??



Yes. They'd have to change their accounting system to allow new features in perpetual dot releases, and it's just not worth it for the relatively small number of perpetual users.


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## Johan Elzenga

lbeck said:


> Thanks for the quick/short answer.
> 
> Curious... Why is Adobe prejudiced against users who want to pay once rather than perpetually?  Short answer - likely to extort more revenue - but is there a technical reason??



Adobe isn't prejudiced and this is not extortion. The perpetual license is how software has always been: you pay for a certain set of features, and you get only bugfixes during the life cycle of the product. When a new version with new features comes out, you pay again. Nothing has changed in this respect, and there are accounting rules in the USA that even forbid to add new features for free half way.

The CC subscription is new and different: you pay a monthly fee and in return you get new features as soon as these are ready. That's only fair, because in the end you've paid more. The only problem is that some people want the best of both. They want to pay a one time fee, and still get the benefits of the subscription. And they call it 'prejudiced' or 'extortion' if they don't get that.


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## PhilBurton

JohanElzenga said:


> Adobe isn't prejudiced and this is not extortion. The perpetual license is how software has always been: you pay for a certain set of features, and you get only bugfixes during the life cycle of the product. When a new version with new features comes out, you pay again. Nothing has changed in this respect, and there are accounting rules in the USA that even forbid to add new features for free half way.
> 
> The CC subscription is new and different: you pay a monthly fee and in return you get new features as soon as these are ready. That's only fair, because in the end you've paid more. The only problem is that some people want the best of both. They want to pay a one time fee, and still get the benefits of the subscription. And they call it 'prejudiced' or 'extortion' if they don't get that.


Johan,

The accounting rule in the USA is that if you sell a product some a list of features but don't deliver some of the features until a later date, you cannot "recognize" all of the revenue until you have actually delivered all of those features.

Phil


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## Hoggy

lbeck said:


> Old thread with my problem...
> I can't get the dehaze.  So this feature still is not available to us poor perpetual licensees?



In addition to the presets option from page one, there is also a plugin that will allow for its own version of the global dehaze slider.  Although my understanding is that it's not quite as elegant, it might be an option to try.  I'd do a Google search on that.

For what it's worth, ALL the code for ALL the new features is actually in all the versions - and images made with them are still respected in the like-versioned perpetual.  It's just that access to them is limited by the license type.  (AKA, there is only ever one exact same version, but different license types to activate/unlock the new feature sets.)  You could theoretically edit the xml for all of it, but it would sure be a PITA way to go about it.


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