# So Frustrated w/ Lightroom



## Mrdavie (Dec 6, 2019)

I have been a proponent of Lightroom but I am so frustrated I am about to cancel my subscription and go to a different processing application. I got a new, powerful computer several months ago. Now between Dell, Microsoft and Adobe I’m the little consumer guy with software issues and no advocates at these big corporations. Importing images is hit and miss. Sometimes it’s flawless. Sometimes I have to shut everything down and reboot my computer. I’m tired of this. I want to do art not spend my time in a spiral trying to solve technical issues.


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 6, 2019)

That's not normal Mr Davie. Tell us more about what happens when it goes wrong.


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## clee01l (Dec 6, 2019)

Like Victoria, I agree that we can work things out. 
One thing that did catch my eye was the comment “I’m tired of this. I want to do art not spend my time in a spiral trying to solve technical issues”
I used to be exclusively a Windows user. My work required this. After retiring, I got tired of “fiddling” with arcane systems settings to get continued performance out of my Windows PC. All I wanted to do was send emails, surf the web on a browser and work my photos with Lightroom. Intrigued by the “It Just Works” tag line and having an IPhone and an iPad, I got a Mac computer. 
It’s not perfect, but the hardware is standardized by ONE manufacturer AND Apple controls both hardware and operating system software. It appears that Adobe has an easier time testing and implementing updates on the Mac platform that it does with many Windows hardware configurations and many different often incompatible hardware combinations.


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## Mrdavie (Dec 6, 2019)

SD card inserted into computer card reader or via an SD card holder plugged into PC is recognized by the PC ((file manager pops up with that drive (Lumix) displayed)).  After launching Lightroom Classic and then clicking on "import" the application pauses and then (_not responding_) is displayed. That's it! After waiting a sufficient time, kill the process and reboot the computer. Sometimes, if I start Lightroom, insert the SD card and then click in "import" things work fine. But sometimes not.


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## Mrdavie (Dec 6, 2019)

clee01l said:


> Like Victoria, I agree that we can work things out.
> One thing that did catch my eye was the comment “I’m tired of this. I want to do art not spend my time in a spiral trying to solve technical issues”
> I used to be exclusively a Windows user. My work required this. After retiring, I got tired of “fiddling” with arcane systems settings to get continued performance out of my Windows PC. All I wanted to do was send emails, surf the web on a browser and work my photos with Lightroom. Intrigued by the “It Just Works” tag line and having an IPhone and an iPad, I got a Mac computer.
> It’s not perfect, but the hardware is standardized by ONE manufacturer AND Apple controls both hardware and operating system software. It appears that Adobe has an easier time testing and implementing updates on the Mac platform that it does with many Windows hardware configurations and many different often incompatible hardware combinations.
> ...


I appreciate your observation and I have considered this alternative platform. However, if Adobe is going to commit to software on the Windows platform, it should perform as well on that platform. It just may not be Adobe's problem; it could be a hardware problem. I have yet to get Dell Computer to acknowledge it may be a hardware issue.  And, by the way, I do have graphics acceleration turned off in Lightroom preferences despite having invested in a "honker" of a graphics card.


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## clee01l (Dec 6, 2019)

Mrdavie said:


> I appreciate your observation and I have considered this alternative platform. However, if Adobe is going to commit to software on the Windows platform, it should perform as well on that platform. It just may not be Adobe's problem; it could be a hardware problem. I have yet to get Dell Computer to acknowledge it may be a hardware issue. And, by the way, I do have graphics acceleration turned off in Lightroom preferences despite having invested in a "honker" of a graphics card.



All I can say is Lightroom problems have been less on the Mac platform for the reasons that I stated. You can appreciate the additional complexity of all the different permutations and combinations of Windows hardware and Windows OS versions, not to mention hardware driver issues that a Company like Adobe has to deal with in testing each revision of Lightroom. 


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## clee01l (Dec 6, 2019)

Mrdavie said:


> SD card inserted into computer card reader or via an SD card holder plugged into PC is recognized by the PC ((file manager pops up with that drive (Lumix) displayed)). After launching Lightroom Classic and then clicking on "import" the application pauses and then (_not responding_) is displayed. That's it! After waiting a sufficient time, kill the process and reboot the computer. Sometimes, if I start Lightroom, insert the SD card and then click in "import" things work fine. But sometimes not.



Have you tried copying the image files to the hard drive and trying to import from that location?
What we need to do is isolate the components and introduce them back one by one until we isolate the source of the problem.

Starting with the camera in the import chain:
1. It could be the camera card 
2. The card reader could be defective or the wrong type (SD as opposed to SDXC) You cannot read newer card types in an obsolete card reader
3. The USB Cable connecting the card reader to the computer could be old, weak or bad. Remember USB cables are sourced to the lowest bidder)
4. If we pass all of these tests the we need to look at the computer hardware( Bad RAMM, not enough RAM, not enough freespace for LR to store the temporary files needed for import.


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## johnbeardy (Dec 6, 2019)

Have you checked if there are any updates for the driver for your graphics card?


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## Jimmsp (Dec 6, 2019)

clee01l said:


> Have you tried copying the image files to the hard drive and trying to import from that location?
> ....



This, imo, is probably the best and quickest way to help isolate the source of the problem.


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## Paul_DS256 (Dec 6, 2019)

Copying them to disk from the card may be the best.

Also, if you can, turn off an anti-virus software to see if it's preventing 

Q: Do you see the devices in Windows Explorer when LR can't get at it?
Q: What happens when you first insert the card? Does it open File Explorer?

 Check Importing from a Card Reader 

You may want to check what the AUTO PLAY settings are CONTROL PANEL->AUTOPLAY. It may be that your memory card is causing a secondary program to run. Here's an example screen shot. Try turning off 'Use Auto Play for all media and devices"





Finally, here is something else to check Windows 10 Autoplay not working

I am also not a big fan of W10 and have been caught between Adobe and Epson as a consumer in the past


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## Mrdavie (Dec 6, 2019)

To answer several of your questions. The graphics driver is up to date. I have copied to hard drive and then imported from there. Of course, that is a work around I would like to avoid. The fewer steps the better. There is no cable for the card reader as it plugs directly into a USB slot on the computer. I did discover a VERY RESENT upgrade to the BIOS which Dell installed remotely as they checked other hardware items as well. So, we will see if that solves the problem. Thank you for your suggestions.


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## clee01l (Dec 6, 2019)

Mrdavie said:


> To answer several of your questions. The graphics driver is up to date. I have copied to hard drive and then imported from there. Of course, that is a work around I would like to avoid. The fewer steps the better. There is no cable for the card reader as it plugs directly into a USB slot on the computer. I did discover a VERY RESENT upgrade to the BIOS which Dell installed remotely as they checked other hardware items as well. So, we will see if that solves the problem. Thank you for your suggestions.



Having eliminated the cable issue and that the files once off the card import successfully from the disk drive. Then next thing to check is the card reader. Beg buy or borrow another USB card reader and see if that works when you current card reader won’t. Also try several different USB ports. It could be a bad port. 
One other thing, is this card reader USB3 or USB-C?


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## Jimmsp (Dec 6, 2019)

Mrdavie said:


> To answer several of your questions. .... I have copied to hard drive and then imported from there. Of course, that is a work around I would like to avoid......


In your original post, you said " Importing images is hit and miss. Sometimes it’s flawless. Sometimes I have to shut everything down and reboot ".
Have you imported from the hard drive enough times to say it is (always) flawless?
If so, then Lightroom is not your problem.


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## davidedric (Dec 7, 2019)

Each to his own, of course, but I prefer to copy from card to disk before importing.  I like to do one step at a time, when I can, so if something goes wrong it's much easier to pinpoint where.


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## Zenon (Dec 7, 2019)

I'm on a Mac but I always import to the desktop, pre-cull using Canon's DPP,  import and then move the files to the external drive using LR.


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## Eric Bowles (Dec 7, 2019)

Like some of the others, I also copy from the card to my computer first, then import to LR as a separate step.  It's faster and eliminates potential issues.  For me, the Lightroom Import step is the first step in editing, so I normally apply some basic presets making the Import step take longer.

Windows 10 should not be a problem, but with any computer or program its easy to have problems with AutoRun or similar settings.


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## Paul_DS256 (Dec 7, 2019)

Eric Bowles said:


> Windows 10 should not be a problem


Eric, I would not discount W10. I've never seen so bad an OS especially one as mature as W10.


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## Paul_DS256 (Dec 7, 2019)

davidedric said:


> Each to his own, of course, but I prefer to copy from card to disk before importing.


I do the same but that's because I do the renaming and initial metadata setting using EXIFTOOL.


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## Eric Bowles (Dec 7, 2019)

Paul_DS256 said:


> Eric, I would not discount W10. I've never seen so bad an OS especially one as mature as W10.


I'm not saying it is a problem.  I'm fine with Win 10.  I'd look elsewhere for the issues the OP was having with LR.


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## clee01l (Dec 7, 2019)

Paul_DS256 said:


> Eric, I would not discount W10. I've never seen so bad an OS especially one as mature as W10.



If you have read my earlier posts, you should realize that there are a lot of elements in this problem that need to be eliminated before pinning the blame on Win10. 
Here are some “facts”:
—Most/Many people successfully run Lightroom Classic on Windows 10 with no problems. So the problem is not Lightroom and it is not Win10 per se. 
—At Last estimate, 53% of computer users are running Win10.
—Win 10 is a mature Operating System, but it is complex with many interdependencies.
—Seemingly unrelated things can cause problems For insurance Mouse drivers can affect screen graphics displays. Simply connecting an iPhone can cause problems with other peripherals

I would hope that the OP continue to follow the list of things to try to eliminate hardware causes. After we eliminate the chain of custody issues, then we can focus on software/firmware issues.


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## Mrdavie (Dec 8, 2019)

Jimmsp said:


> In your original post, you said " Importing images is hit and miss. Sometimes it’s flawless. Sometimes I have to shut everything down and reboot ".
> Have you imported from the hard drive enough times to say it is (always) flawless?
> If so, then Lightroom is not your problem.


No. I will copy to hard drive and import for a while to see if it is flawless. I also have a hunch it is hardware but the software gives instructions to the hardware so...


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## Mrdavie (Dec 8, 2019)

clee01l said:


> If you have read my earlier posts, you should realize that there are a lot of elements in this problem that need to be eliminated before pinning the blame on Win10.
> Here are some “facts”:
> —Most/Many people successfully run Lightroom Classic on Windows 10 with no problems. So the problem is not Lightroom and it is not Win10 per se.
> —At Last estimate, 53% of computer users are running Win10.
> ...


I will pick up another card reader for USB. The one I have is by Precision and came with a camera. Probably not the best quality. I need to test other ports as well. Too many variables to feel secure in my process of elimination, but I do know I am very frustrated with this matter. Thank you for responding.


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## Mrdavie (Dec 8, 2019)

clee01l said:


> Having eliminated the cable issue and that the files once off the card import successfully from the disk drive. Then next thing to check is the card reader. Beg buy or borrow another USB card reader and see if that works when you current card reader won’t. Also try several different USB ports. It could be a bad port.
> One other thing, is this card reader USB3 or USB-C?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I will purchase another card reader. Oops, I think i also posted this response on someone else's comment. I cannot even keep up with all the input on this topic. How could I possible solve my technical problem?


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## Mrdavie (Dec 8, 2019)

davidedric said:


> Each to his own, of course, but I prefer to copy from card to disk before importing.  I like to do one step at a time, when I can, so if something goes wrong it's much easier to pinpoint where.


That is a very good point. Perhaps I need to modify my method.


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 9, 2019)

One more to rule out - there's some reports of conflicts with Acronis Active Protection on Windows recently.


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## Mrdavie (Dec 6, 2019)

I have been a proponent of Lightroom but I am so frustrated I am about to cancel my subscription and go to a different processing application. I got a new, powerful computer several months ago. Now between Dell, Microsoft and Adobe I’m the little consumer guy with software issues and no advocates at these big corporations. Importing images is hit and miss. Sometimes it’s flawless. Sometimes I have to shut everything down and reboot my computer. I’m tired of this. I want to do art not spend my time in a spiral trying to solve technical issues.


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## Mrdavie (Dec 9, 2019)

Victoria Bampton said:


> One more to rule out - there's some reports of conflicts with Acronis Active Protection on Windows recently.


Windows Defender and Malwarebytes are the only protection apps running on my Windows 10 computer. Thanks for the attention. Oh, but I could disable my Malwarebytes and see if that helps.


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## Mrdavie (Dec 9, 2019)

Paul_DS256 said:


> Copying them to disk from the card may be the best.
> 
> Also, if you can, turn off an anti-virus software to see if it's preventing
> 
> ...


I think the malware program may be the key. I will test that some more. I did  not read your post until I read Victoria Bampton's post regarding potential conflict with another malware program on Windows. I just quit Malwarebytes on my system and did two successful imports of photos FROM the SD card plugged into the computer's SD slot, AND I checked the Lightroom import option to eject the card after import. So, Adobe certainly programs their Windows version to be robust and to work with SC Cards, etc. I really do not want to be forced to copy to the computer before importing. Technology is supposed to allow us to take as few steps to get from point A to point B. And finally, I will probably delete the images of my knees, ceiling fan and file cabinet taken to test the import process. Thanks for your reply.


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## Paul_DS256 (Dec 9, 2019)

Mrdavie said:


> Technology is supposed to allow us to take as few steps to get from point A to point B.


True, but because of black hats out there, you need border agents in place to ensure your system stays safe. The Zen of this could be to put in your SD then wait till Explorer will show you a list of images before you try to get LR to import them.


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## Jimmsp (Dec 9, 2019)

Mrdavie said:


> I think the malware program may be the key. ...



Just fyi - I run  a Windows 10 pc with Malwarebytes Premium and Windows Defender active. I download from a usb3 Kingston card reader with no problems.

Jim


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## imajez (Dec 10, 2019)

clee01l said:


> Intrigued by the “It Just Works” tag line and having an IPhone and an iPad, I got a Mac computer.
> It’s not perfect, but the hardware is standardized by ONE manufacturer AND Apple controls both hardware and operating system software. It appears that Adobe has an easier time testing and implementing updates on the Mac platform that it does with many Windows hardware configurations and many different often incompatible hardware combinations.


Oh I wish 'It just works' was true.  The advertising standards authority here in the UK should have slapped their wrists re that dubious claim.
As a long time Mac user and 11 odd years as owner and nearly 15+ on PCs, I wished that Apple were in fact magically better. Sadly not. Just as many issues, just different ones. Just look at the amount of updates/bug fixes from Apple themselves for their own software. I was advised by an Apple Genius to never upgrade to a new OS until at least bug fix 4 or 5. I usually only update when I have to and skip every other version of OSX at least. I haven't dared update my phone to the latest iOS it's been so very buggy and when my new 16" arrives later this week, I may downgrade it from Catalina to Mojave due to the usual issues when using a recent update. I also avoid Mac software where I can due to it being rather rubbish and buggy.

As for LR, it's become increasingly painful to use over last year or so with numerous bugs, glitches and issues.  I shall be doing a fresh install of everything on the new MBP and start completely from scratch to see if I can see if the bugs are Adobe or Apple's fault or better yet eliminated with a fresh start and no other apps on machine.


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## imajez (Dec 10, 2019)

Another vote for copy from card to disk first.  Same disk as you keep your LR images on, otherwise it has to be copied again between disks and increased likelihood of data errors compared to moving them on same disk. 
I always then check all data is same on both card/HD before then importing to LR.


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## clee01l (Dec 11, 2019)

info_17 said:


> Oh I wish 'It just works' was true.


I don't think Apple uses that tag line any more. 

I don't remember having  any performance issues with Lightroom when I ran it with Windows.. However, I considered myself more knowledgable than most about how the Windows OS needed to interact with it components.  And I spent  a lot of time "under the hood"  keeping Windows running at it most efficient.   By removing "bloatware" and startup helper apps from the computer,  I was able to keep Windows running efficiently.   
To keep Windows running at its best requires a lot of diligence and contstant tweaking.   When Windows was no longer an essential part of my work life (I retired),   I looked to Apple for a standardized hardware/software environment.   By not implementing a resident  3rd party anti-malware app, I saved myself a lot of grief by getting that component out of the workflow.   Admittedly, I knew more about Windows and LINUX when I switched to a Mac, but I'm a fast learner and there was less to know to get up to speed on a Mac. 
When I used Windows,   I always delay updating the OS until at least the "dot one" release.   I found this was not necessary with  the Mac. The new OS was pretested against a standard set of hardware (the same hardware that I owned) .  While usually, an early adopter when Apple upgrades the OS, I did delay on this one simply because it coincided with a new update to the Lightroom family.   Adobe always has issues when a new release comes out.  Sometimes these are major snafus.   Most of the Lightroom bugs are IMO the result of poor testing and abandonment of the Beta Preview rollout  that used to happen in earlier versions of Lightroom. 

You are correct that no OS is bug free.   However POSIX compliant OSes tend to be more stable and less delicate.


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## fullkoll (Dec 11, 2019)

I have stopped using a card reader when I import photos to Mac from my cameras. Instead I use Apples Image capture with a cable between my camera (with micro USB or USB-C depending on which camera I use). Image Capture works very well and let me decide where I want to save the photos.

Mac or PC?
I worked professionally with PCs and hated every minute of it. As clee01!  pointed out, it´s a pain  to work with computers where no one controls how hardware and software work together.    
Privately I started  early with Apple since the ][e up to the MacMini 2018 I use today.

Though.... I must add that  the quality of Apple software has deteriorated by sloppy programming and quality control the last few years.
Even so - I stay with Mac and I have used Lightroom since version 1.0 and it has *never crashed *- not once!


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 11, 2019)

My catalog contains 182,000 images. Some 90% of them was imported by means of a card reader, either by Aperture (before I moved to Lightroom) or by Lightroom. Never had any problem at all.


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## fullkoll (Dec 11, 2019)

I can´t say that my card reader(s) have been flawless - but mostly they worked OK,  though.

I just find it simpler to connect a cable for downloading, than messing around with the memory card and a reader..... which also needs to be connected via a cable to the computer- at least with todays Macs that has no built-in reader.
When I have finished transferring the photos -  if needed, I leave the same cable connected (with the camera off) and the camera gets charged - a bonus!

Both my main cameras nowadays (Sony RX1 and Nikon Z50) works OK with this method for downloading and charging with my MacMinis.


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## imajez (Dec 11, 2019)

clee01l said:


> I don't think Apple uses that tag line any more.


Yet you used it.
Hence my reply regarding that myth.



> I always delay updating the OS until at least the "dot one" release.   I found this was not necessary with  the Mac. The new OS was pretested against a standard set of hardware (the same hardware that I owned) .  While usually, an early adopter when Apple upgrades the OS, I did delay on this one simply because it coincided with a new update to the Lightroom family.   Adobe always has issues when a new release comes out.  Sometimes these are major snafus.   Most of the Lightroom bugs are IMO the result of poor testing and abandonment of the Beta Preview rollout  that used to happen in earlier versions of Lightroom.
> You are correct that no OS is bug free.   However POSIX compliant OSes tend to be more stable and less delicate.


I've used both systems for very many years and despite the fact that Apple software is designed for a handful of Apple computers, there seems to no practical differnce regarding  bug issues.
With every Mac release, those who use their computers/phones etc for work wait for the various bugs to be sorted out. iOS 13 was so very bad the first bug fix came out almost as soon as it was released and is still iffy, so I'm staying on iOS 12 until it is definitively safe.
As I also said I was advised by Apple technicians themselves to do just that, wait for 4-5 bug fixes before updating, if at all.  Advice repeated to me many times over the years by Apple staff and evidenced as being sensible by the inevitable issues that affect a whole host of software companies for the first few bug fix updates.  Apple keeping stuff secret means 3rd party companies don't get software for testing before we do. One time Adobe were absolutely slammed for not updating PS on the Mac, when the real reason was that Apple told everyone they were supporting a new form of OSX and then late in the day changed their mind, so everything needed recoding from scratch.  This was the Carbon/Cocoa debacle. Every year most music software compares strongly advise against updating to new versions of OSX until the inevitable bugs are definitively squashed. I currently can't use Apple mail because of a recurrent and long standing bug.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 11, 2019)

It all depends on your workflow and your equipment. I often use three or four cameras for the same shoot. That makes it a lot easier to use one card reader of all of them, then to change connections four times. And my Canon EOS-1D X cameras cannot be charged by USB anyway.


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## Mrdavie (Dec 13, 2019)

Import from sad card worked flawlessly with malware program closed. We’ll see over time if this was the culprit.


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## Zenon (Dec 13, 2019)

When I have comp issues and call support and they have problems figuring it out they ask about any virus/malware software I may be running.


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## Mrdavie (Dec 13, 2019)

Thanks for your comment. Someone had suggested scanning for malware (as the potential cause). But, the idea of exposing the computer to malware attack by terminating the malware program, was not suggested. Of course, if this proves to be the solution, I have no problem terminating the application long enough to import images from the SD card in my own camera.


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## clee01l (Dec 13, 2019)

Mrdavie said:


> Thanks for your comment. Someone had suggested scanning for malware (as the potential cause). But, the idea of exposing the computer to malware attack by terminating the malware program, was not suggested. Of course, if this proves to be the solution, I have no problem terminating the application long enough to import images from the SD card in my own camera.



Another option is to set the anti malware app to ignore scanning the files off of the image card. That way it can protect everything else and you can be certain that your image file shot with your camera won’t contain malware. 


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## Mrdavie (Dec 13, 2019)

I’ll look into that. Not sure the software is that nuanced.


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## Paul_DS256 (Dec 13, 2019)

I would check to see if you can find an active window where the Malware or Anti-Virus is scanning the SD. Check your settings. If you can get a window to appear, you may have the option of canceling the scan.

You may want to take a Zen moment and see long it is until the Malware/Anti-Virus finishes.

Of course, maybe your SD card has a virus


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