# Keywords only randomly being synced from Classic to CC/Web



## SaraLH (Mar 25, 2019)

As a word of introduction, I'm quite a  experienced computer user (retired IT-Administrator) and have used Lightroom since version 1. My current at home workflow is as follows: Classic is my primary instrument to import, add keywords, captions and locations and edit photos. In Classic I create collections to by synced to CC/Web/Mobile for sharing and web viewing. 

Now to my issue: I have learned my lesson about the lack of real keywording sync and NEVER add a photo to a synced collection until it has the correct set of keywords. About a week ago I created a new collection and have been gradually adding photos to it after all of the keywording and edits are finished.  When I view the synced album in Lightroom CC or Web or Mobile, 99% of the keywords have not been synced from Classic - that is to say, the keywords are missing from ALMOST all of the photos. I can't seem to find any rhyme or reason as to why the keywords would sync with a few of the photos but not all of them. And out of the 40 or so affected photos 3 or 4 had previously been shared before keywords were applied (my bad...), so I understand that the keywords would not sync for this small group of photos. (And yes, all relevant keywords were set to export.)

That all being said, I realize that it's really not so important in the greater scope of things, seeing as you can't really do too much with keywords in CC or Web, but it is certainly a niggling question. Does anyone have any ideas what could be causing this behavior - has anyone else experienced this?

P.S. I've been a lurker here for several years, gleaning helpful bits from you all here and there - Thanks!

Cheers, 
Sara


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 25, 2019)

Keywords do not sync between Lightroom Classic and Lightroom CC, period. They may upload once, if you save metadata to files before you sync the photos, and do not have smart previews for these photos already. But that’s it: a one-time upload only. No sync, and no updates at a later stage.


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## johnbeardy (Mar 25, 2019)

Adobe haven't designed the process to make keywords  sync from Lightroom Classic to LRCC/Web. It's happening accidentally.

When Classic syncs, it needs to have a smart preview, a compressed file format. If you created smart previews upon import, sync would grab that file, but normally it would need to generate one. At that point in time, sync bakes the smart preview from the original file and from any xmp data in the folder - typically a sidecar file which might have been created by Metadata > Save Metadata to File or by the automatic setting. If keywords happen to be in that xmp, they will be baked into the smart preview  and they will then be read when Adobe's server processes the smart preview.

This piggybacking-on-the-smart-preview is different from fields like rating or title where sync explicitly transfers  that field's data back and forth between Lightroom Classic to LRCC/Web.


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## SaraLH (Mar 25, 2019)

Thank you Johan, that much I knew, which is exactly why I made sure that the keywords were added before I synced the photos. But you clued me in that what I didn't do was manually sync the metadata to the file before adding it to the collection. I have just done that with a newly edited photo and the keywords were uploaded. Live and learn.


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## SaraLH (Mar 25, 2019)

johnbeardy said:


> Adobe haven't designed the process to make keywords  sync from Lightroom Classic to LRCC/Web. It's happening accidentally.
> 
> When Classic syncs, it needs to have a smart preview, a compressed file format. If you created smart previews upon import, sync would grab that file, but normally it would need to generate one. At that point in time, sync bakes the smart preview from the original file and from any xmp data in the folder - typically a sidecar file which might have been created by Metadata > Save Metadata to File or by the automatic setting. If keywords happen to be in that



Hi John,
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Currently I don't create smart previews on import so that means that they are created on sync. Also, I have made the choice (for better or for worse) to save metadata in the catalog and not as separate xmp files, so what I see now is that I need to remember to manually save the metadata before syncing the photos for the first time.

Not a major tragedy for me at this time but I do hope that someday our friends at Adobe will choose to spend more time on improving the entire keywording ecosystem.


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## prbimages (Mar 25, 2019)

I follow the same procedure as SaraLH, as I quite like having my initial set of keywords transferred over. But I never realized that this worked only because I am automatically saving the metadata to XMP files - good to know! Thanks


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## johnbeardy (Mar 25, 2019)

"only because I am automatically saving the metadata to XMP file"  and  if no smart preview exists at that point.


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## Johan Elzenga (Mar 26, 2019)

SaraLH said:


> Also, I have made the choice (for better or for worse) to save metadata in the catalog and not as separate xmp files


Metadata are *always* saved in the catalog. XMP files are extra if you choose to write to XMP.


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## SaraLH (Mar 26, 2019)

JohanElzenga said:


> Metadata are *always* saved in the catalog. XMP files are extra if you choose to write to XMP.


How often are the metadata saved? Are there particular actions (other than Ctrl+S) that trigger a metadata save?


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## johnbeardy (Mar 26, 2019)

There's a Catalog Setting for automatic saving - this kicks in whenever you make a change - or you do a Ctrl S. Nothing else.


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## Mrdavie (Mar 8, 2020)

I am looking for an adequate explanation. I leisurely added keywords to images on my ipad fully expecting these changes to show up on Lightroom Classic. It did not. So, there is something one can not do with Lightroom Mobile and expect to sync with Classic.


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## Jim Wilde (Mar 8, 2020)

Mrdavie said:


> I am looking for an adequate explanation. I leisurely added keywords to images on my ipad fully expecting these changes to show up on Lightroom Classic. It did not. So, there is something one can not do with Lightroom Mobile and expect to sync with Classic.


Posts #2 and #3 earlier in this thread explain that keywords do not sync, and explain the circumstances of how to achieve a one-time, one-way transfer of keywords created in Classic to the cloud. But there is no syncing of keywords in either direction.

There are other things which do not sync either (location data and face recognition data), so you might want to read this feature comparison between the two systems: Lightroom cloud ecosystem vs. Lightroom Classic - which do I need? | The Lightroom Queen


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## nremy1984 (Apr 25, 2020)

Everyone,
I hope it's OK to continue an old thread, but i thought my question really connects with the above.
If i missed my only "one-way sync ticket" chance to push keywords from LR Classic to LR Cloudy (so far i've just pushed a few dozens of smart previews on LR Cloudy), and i really want my advanced keywording work (which i'm doing now, aiming to finish in 1 week max)  to be available in LR Cloudy. I suppose i could still do it, with this procedure:
-from LR Classic, disable synching the synched collections
-delete the corresponding synched photos (just a smart preview) from LR Cloudy - without it triggering a delete of the same RAW/XMP/catalog record in LR Classic
-delete the existing Smart Previews (with lack of keywording) for these photos in LR Classic
-sync again my collections (from LR Classic), so that new Smart previews get generated, this time with full keywording, based on my new keywords in LR  Classic (yes, i have XMP files for all raws)

Would that work?

cheers
Nicolas


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## clee01l (Apr 26, 2020)

nremy1984 said:


> Everyone,
> I hope it's OK to continue an old thread, but i thought my question really connects with the above.
> If i missed my only "one-way sync ticket" chance to push keywords from LR Classic to LR Cloudy (so far i've just pushed a few dozens of smart previews on LR Cloudy), and i really want my advanced keywording work (which i'm doing now, aiming to finish in 1 week max)  to be available in LR Cloudy. I suppose i could still do it, with this procedure:
> -from LR Classic, disable synching the synched collections
> ...


I don't like the word "delete".    You can remove images from Lightroom (cloudy) .   This will put them in "Deleted"  purgatory  Special Lightroom (Cloudy) collection for 60 days.  You can them turn off sync'ing  of all Lightroom Classic Collections and REMOVE (not delete) any images from the "All Synced Photographs" Special collection in Classic. 
Once the dust has cleared, you can then select Classic Collections to sync to cloudy,  This will cause that one time sync of keywords with new Smart DNG proxy image files to the cloud.   "Smart Previews in classic are local files.  Smart DNGs are special proxy files that Lightroom Classic sends to the cloud and does not count against your plan storage limits (20GB or 1TB)


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## nremy1984 (Apr 27, 2020)

clee01l said:


> I don't like the word "delete".    You can remove images from Lightroom (cloudy) .   This will put them in "Deleted"  purgatory  Special Lightroom (Cloudy) collection for 60 days.  You can them turn off sync'ing  of all Lightroom Classic Collections and REMOVE (not delete) any images from the "All Synced Photographs" Special collection in Classic.
> Once the dust has cleared, you can then select Classic Collections to sync to cloudy,  This will cause that one time sync of keywords with new Smart DNG proxy image files to the cloud.   "Smart Previews in classic are local files.  Smart DNGs are special proxy files that Lightroom Classic sends to the cloud and does not count against your plan storage limits (20GB or 1TB)


Thanks for this!
Indeed i understand why it’s rather « remove » than an actual delete.
With « once the dust has cleared », do you mean i need to wait 60 days for the first version of the smart previews to be cleared from LR Cloudy, before i re-sync the same LR Classic Raws (generating new smart previews) towards LR cloudy?


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## Jim Wilde (Apr 27, 2020)

nremy1984 said:


> With « once the dust has cleared », do you mean i need to wait 60 days for the first version of the smart previews to be cleared from LR Cloudy, before i re-sync the same LR Classic Raws (generating new smart previews) towards LR cloudy?


No, Cletus simply meant when the action of removing those images from All Synced Photographs has synced to the cloud and removed them from there. Then you can proceed to re-sync the smart previews from Classic.
The "Deleted Items" special album is a simple trash-can. Any images deleted from the cloud are put in there and they remain there for 60 days....if you haven't restored them by the end of the 60 days they are deleted (all the images in the trash-can are marked with a day clock so if interested you can see how long there is left before permanent deletion occurs). Each image can be restored before the 60 days are up, and if you want to you can manually permanently delete them yourself on an individual basis.


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## nremy1984 (Apr 27, 2020)

Jim Wilde said:


> No, Cletus simply meant when the action of removing those images from All Synced Photographs has synced to the cloud and removed them from there. Then you can proceed to re-sync the smart previews from Classic.
> The "Deleted Items" special album is a simple trash-can. Any images deleted from the cloud are put in there and they remain there for 60 days....if you haven't restored them by the end of the 60 days they are deleted (all the images in the trash-can are marked with a day clock so if interested you can see how long there is left before permanent deletion occurs). Each image can be restored before the 60 days are up, and if you want to you can manually permanently delete them yourself on an individual basis.


Thanks Jim, but then i am confused on one point: are you saying that, if i remove these images from "All Synced Photographs" (LR Classic) then they will automatically be removed from LR Cloudy (i.e. the second step in the procedure i proposed above was redundant)?


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## Jim Wilde (Apr 27, 2020)

You can remove images from the cloud either by deleting them from any of the cloud client apps, or (if you have a Classic catalog synced as well) you can remove them from All Synced Photographs. 

The latter approach is recommended for those who routinely add images from a cloud client (e.g. pictures taken on their phone) which they want to remove from the cloud after syncing, and then resync them back from Classic as Smart Previews (thus not taking up any of the cloud space allowance). The reason for that recommendation is to avoid the potential issue of deleting from the cloud before they've had the chance to sync down into Classic.


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## clee01l (Apr 27, 2020)

nremy1984 said:


> With « once the dust has cleared », do you mean i need to wait 60 days for the first version of the smart previews to be cleared from LR Cloudy, before i re-sync the same LR Classic Raws (generating new smart previews) towards LR cloudy?


No, you can go into the special collection "Deleted"  and permanently delete the images there.  Lightroom (Cloudy) will warn you that this is permanent but you can proceed.  Once your image count in the Cloud is zero, you can move forward and create a new sync from for Classic catalog .


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## nremy1984 (Apr 28, 2020)

Just wanted to thank you all for your replies, super helpful!


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