# Canon's Cloud - data lost



## Linwood Ferguson (Aug 11, 2020)

Those who are comfortable trusting a vendors cloud storage as your ONLY copy of photos may find Canon's experience uncomfortable, and may not want to read this story: 

Canon says its cloud service can't restore users' lost videos or full-size images

Basically a human coding error got "permanent storage" and "temporary storage" confused, and lost people's images.  And Canon had no backups.


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## PhilBurton (Aug 11, 2020)

Ferguson said:


> Those who are comfortable trusting a vendors cloud storage as your ONLY copy of photos may find Canon's experience uncomfortable, and may not want to read this story:
> 
> Canon says its cloud service can't restore users' lost videos or full-size images
> 
> Basically a human coding error got "permanent storage" and "temporary storage" confused, and lost people's images.  And Canon had no backups.


What is the right word for this?  Gobsmacked?  FUBAR?  Amateurish (in the worst sense of the word)?

Almost as bad as the online photo service for professionals, which lost money so the investors gave everyone exactly one whole week to download all their images.  Problem was, everyone was trying to download at the same time, so download speeds were very low.  As a result, many professionals lost years of their work.


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## davidedric (Aug 11, 2020)

What happened to"Develop", "Pre-Production" and "Production" environments?  Oh well, I suppose it's all "fast track" nowadays.:(


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## Linwood Ferguson (Aug 12, 2020)

davidedric said:


> What happened to"Develop", "Pre-Production" and "Production" environments?  Oh well, I suppose it's all "fast track" nowadays.:(



To a large degree all the various RAD (Rapid Application Development) philosophies replaced anything that took time.

Then outsourcing to the lowest priced source of developers put to rest anything related to production quality.

But what worries me about the cloud, including Adobe's Cloud, is really not that (which opinion shows my background and age probably), but that as an end user we have no way to know how well their redundancy and recovery processes work until a disaster happens.  You can't call up Microsoft Drive or Adobe's Cloud and say "let's do a disaster recovery test with my data". 

Feel free to give it a try though.


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## PhilBurton (Aug 12, 2020)

davidedric said:


> What happened to"Develop", "Pre-Production" and "Production" environments?  Oh well, I suppose it's all "fast track" nowadays.:(


David.  The so-called Agile development methodologies are supposed to actually produce better quality code in less time than the older "waterfall" method.  However, there is still a need forcomplete testing.  And there is no excuse, nonewhatsover, for not doing at least one backup. Someone should be fired over this issue.


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## davidedric (Aug 12, 2020)

I've been retired a few years now, but spent a few years deploying software in a "regulated", i.e. subject to FDA (Food and drug Administration) regulation in the pharmaceutical industry.  Where medicine safety was concerned, there was no scope for errors (indeed, a failed FDA inspection could lead to a plant shutdown).

Of course, no software is completely bug free, not least because of the impossibility of describing functionality in sufficient detail to be able to identify what is a bug, but agile development would not have agot our job done.

Wandered a bit off-topic (again!), but the point is that mission critical applications should necessitate a rigorous testing regime, and the OP was badly let down.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Aug 12, 2020)

PhilBurton said:


> David.  The so-called Agile development methodologies are supposed to actually produce better quality code in less time than the older "waterfall" method.  However, there is still a need forcomplete testing.  And there is no excuse, nonewhatsover, for not doing at least one backup. Someone should be fired over this issue.



The problem is some low level development manager will be fired, not the executive that insisted on shortcuts and unrealistic delivery targets. 

The problem I always had with Agile and RAD variants is the iterative nature demands automated regression testing to adequately test for unexpected impacts, since you are continually making incremental changes including late in the develop/release cycle. Automated regression testing sounds good but rarely gets actually done, or at least done thoroughly. Instead humans test what they think they changed, and miss side effects.  The result is when something like your backups become corrupt because you changed a completely unrelated function you miss it. 

Agile/RAD produce better products functionally, without a doubt.  But companies save on testing costs by pretending it doesn't change, and then blame the developers.

Fire the CIO.  That's my theory for improving the breed.


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## PhilBurton (Aug 12, 2020)

Ferguson said:


> The problem is some low level development manager will be fired, not the executive that insisted on shortcuts and unrealistic delivery targets.
> 
> The problem I always had with Agile and RAD variants is the iterative nature demands automated regression testing to adequately test for unexpected impacts, since you are continually making incremental changes including late in the develop/release cycle. Automated regression testing sounds good but rarely gets actually done, or at least done thoroughly. Instead humans test what they think they changed, and miss side effects.  The result is when something like your backups become corrupt because you changed a completely unrelated function you miss it.
> 
> ...


Ferguson,

I have to agree a lot with your comments.  I've worked as a product manager in both environments, and no methodology is "best."  IF we want to discuss this all in more detail, let's start a thread in the Lounge so people who don't know or don't care about software development can safely ignore it.

I will say this.  Software development is an area prone to groupthink and hype cycles (per Gartner Group.)  I'm sure that whatever I could list out, you could easily double or triple that list.

That is why I lots of backups of my Lightroom catalog(s), and I keep backups for several years.

Sometimes the CIO is an a weak position compared to the sales and marketing groups that are always pushing for "Do it now, so we can match or beat the competition.)  I saw that with some of my consulting clients.  Or there is an imperious CEO, who makes all the decisions, and mid-level managers are essentially puppets.

Phil Burton


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## Zenon (Aug 19, 2020)

It is getting bad out there and likely will get worse . Desjardins was hacked so they offered  5 years of free Equifax. The day I was filling out the application I got an emial  from  MGM Grand telling me they were hacked and offered  1 year of Equifax. Last week Canada Revenue Service was hacked. About 10,000 people effected. They said most were due to people using the same password for multiple accounts. I never use the same one twice.     

How many financial institutions  do you think have been hacked. Unless personal information is effected I doubt  they announce it to the public.


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## clee01l (Aug 19, 2020)

> How many financial institutions do you think have been hacked. Unless personal information is effected I doubt they announce it to the public.


Just yesterday some one was probing LightroomForums. They managed to promote themselves to Admin level before they were squelched


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## PhilBurton (Aug 19, 2020)

Zenon said:


> It is getting bad out there and likely will get worse . Desjardins was hacked so they offered  5 years of free Equifax. The day I was filling out the application I got an emial  from  MGM Grand telling me they were hacked and offered  1 year of Equifax. Last week Canada Revenue Service was hacked. About 10,000 people effected. They said most were due to people using the same password for multiple accounts. I never use the same one twice.
> 
> How many financial institutions  do you think have been hacked. Unless personal information is effected I doubt  they announce it to the public.


In California, the disclosure rules are very strong.  Other places, who knows?  (I live in CA.)

Recently I have gotten multiple emails and one US Postal Service mail from various non-profit, arts, and community organizations, all of whom used BlackBaudHosting as their website host.

I persnally have seen a real surge in the number of spam emails.  I think that pandemic lockdown has reduced the "usual opportunities" for cybertheft.  Everyone needs to make a living, even the cyber criminals.


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## Zenon (Aug 19, 2020)

I set up my mail so I see the full address and I'm forced to load remote content. Otherwise I'd be a multi millionaire because apparently I have rich uncles all over the world passing away and leaving me money.   

I won't answer calls or texts I don't recognize.  If my bank calls me I tell them I'll call them back.


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## PhilBurton (Aug 19, 2020)

Zenon said:


> I set up my mail so I see the full address and I'm forced to load remote content. Otherwise I'd be a multi millionaire because apparently I have rich uncles all over the world passing away and leaving me money.
> 
> I won't answer calls or texts I don't recognize.  If my bank calls me I tell them I'll call them back.


I use Outlook for email, and I have the junk mail filter set.  I know it's whack-a-mole to some extent, but I also mark spam as junk to filter out future messages from the same spammer website.  Works when it does.  I also report abusive messages to [email protected].


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## Zenon (Aug 19, 2020)

I also never use the same password twice even if it's for my "How to darn you socks" monthly subscription.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Aug 20, 2020)

Well, Adobe didn't want Canon to be outdone: 

Lightroom App Update Wipes Users' Photos and Presets, Adobe Says they are 'Not Recoverable'


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## Replytoken (Aug 21, 2020)

Ferguson said:


> Well, Adobe didn't want Canon to be outdone:
> 
> Lightroom App Update Wipes Users' Photos and Presets, Adobe Says they are 'Not Recoverable'


Ouch!

--Ken


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## Jimmsp (Aug 21, 2020)

Replytoken said:


> Ouch!
> 
> --Ken


Exactly one of the reasons I maintain Classic as my centerpoint for work.
When I shoot with my phone (generally secondary shots), I sync them into Classic, and then pull the ones I want onto the main HD, process with Classic, and then everything gets backed up.


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## clee01l (Aug 21, 2020)

I think this is a clear example of why cloud services are not a foolproof place to backup your images.   As for Adobe's snafu, I think this will set back the efforts to get Photographers to abandon local storage solutions. 

To be said about the Adobe issue,  I think the number of users affected was quite small. Only those that imported after 5.4.0 was releases and before 5.4.1 superseded it.   I was automatically updated to 5.4.0 but I did not use my iPadPro for any  camera imports.  Lucky for me since lately I have been using my iPadPro and Lr as a front end to LrC on my Mac.  

I would guess that those with a real camera that import using the mobile app  like me are quite small.   Also this bug apparently was limited to iOS/iPadOS and not Android.


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## Johan Elzenga (Aug 21, 2020)

clee01l said:


> I think this is a clear example of why cloud services are not a foolproof place to backup your images.   As for Adobe's snafu, I think this will set back the efforts to get Photographers to abandon local storage solutions.


The interesting thing in the Adobe case is that the incident only affected users who did *not* use Creative Cloud, but had all their images and presets stored locally on their device (the free app users, and people who had not-yet-synced images on their device). But I agree with you: these incidents will teach people that they are the one who is responsible for having a backup plan, nobody else.


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## PhilBurton (Aug 21, 2020)

clee01l said:


> I think this is a clear example of why cloud services are not a foolproof place to backup your images.   As for Adobe's snafu, I think this will set back the efforts to get Photographers to abandon local storage solutions.
> 
> To be said about the Adobe issue,  I think the number of users affected was quite small. Only those that imported after 5.4.0 was releases and before 5.4.1 superseded it.   I was automatically updated to 5.4.0 but I did not use my iPadPro for any  camera imports.  Lucky for me since lately I have been using my iPadPro and Lr as a front end to LrC on my Mac.
> 
> I would guess that those with a real camera that import using the mobile app  like me are quite small.   Also this bug apparently was limited to iOS/iPadOS and not Android.


Cletus,

A small consolation if you are one of those unlucky people who lost all their photos.  +1 to your point about cloud services.  The best practice is to back up both locally (twice if possible) and offsite.  The offsite could be a bank safe deposit box or the cloud.

Phil


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## clee01l (Aug 21, 2020)

Johan Elzenga said:


> The interesting thing in the Adobe case is that the incident only affected users who did *not* use Creative Cloud, but had all their images and presets stored locally on their device (the free app users, and people who had not-yet-synced images on their device). But I agree with you: these incidents will teach people that they are the one who is responsible for having a backup plan, nobody else.



Actually the one case that caught my attention was one of the threads posted here. User went to Mexico, shot with Nikon, uploaded to an earlier version of Lightroom. Since the internet connection in Mexico was slow all of the images imported into Lightroom had not transferred to the cloud by the time the user returned home. The user reviewed the images on the phone and overnight Lr updated to 5.4.0. The next day the images were gone. They did not make it to the cloud or the master Classic catalog. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## PhilBurton (Aug 21, 2020)

clee01l said:


> Actually the one case that caught my attention was one of the threads posted here. User went to Mexico, shot with Nikon, uploaded to an earlier version of Lightroom. Since the internet connection in Mexico was slow all of the images imported into Lightroom had not transferred to the cloud by the time the user returned home. The user reviewed the images on the phone and overnight Lr updated to 5.4.0. The next day the images were gone. They did not make it to the cloud or the master Classic catalog.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That is precisely why I carry an EHD on trips, and I back up daily.  I will also copy the contents of those backups to my wife's laptop.  Too many backups leads to some confusion, but too few backups leads to heartache and sorrow.

One reason why I no longer rename files  on import is to reduce any possible confusion if I have to restore from the EHD.


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## clee01l (Aug 21, 2020)

PhilBurton said:


> One reason why I no longer rename files on import is to reduce any possible confusion if I have to restore from the EHD.


Excellent reason!


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## Johan Elzenga (Aug 22, 2020)

PhilBurton said:


> One reason why I no longer rename files on import is to reduce any possible confusion if I have to restore from the EHD.


I fail to see that confusion. When you rename on import and save a second copy on import, that second copy will be renamed too. When you rename on import and use a backup utility to make a backup of the imported images, the backup images will have the new name too.


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## Victoria Bampton (Aug 22, 2020)

clee01l said:


> Just yesterday some one was probing LightroomForums. They managed to promote themselves to Admin level before they were squelched


It's ok, that was me doing a minor mod to the email notifications! VBtestaccount is one of my test accounts, and I was posting in the hidden back room forum.


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## clee01l (Aug 22, 2020)

Victoria Bampton said:


> It's ok, that was me doing a minor mod to the email notifications! VBtestaccount is one of my test accounts, and I was posting in the hidden back room forum.



Well that certainly sent off alarms when I saw it. VB to my eyes said VisualBasic not Victoria Brampton. It had all of the earmarks of a hacker when I read them. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Victoria Bampton (Aug 22, 2020)

clee01l said:


> Well that certainly sent off alarms when I saw it. VB to my eyes said VisualBasic not Victoria Brampton. It had all of the earmarks of a hacker when I read them.


Sorry for scaring you! Anytime you think we might be being hacked, drop me an email as there's extra checks I would do to make sure everything was secure.


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## PhilBurton (Aug 22, 2020)

Johan Elzenga said:


> I fail to see that confusion. When you rename on import and save a second copy on import, that second copy will be renamed too. When you rename on import and use a backup utility to make a backup of the imported images, the backup images will have the new name too.


My overall system backup (and backup of that backup) will usually include photo files before they are imported into Lightroom.  Belts and suspenders.


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## PhilBurton (Aug 22, 2020)

clee01l said:


> Well that certainly sent off alarms when I saw it. VB to my eyes said VisualBasic not Victoria Brampton. It had all of the earmarks of a hacker when I read them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm with Cletus here.  No website is 100% immune from a truly dedicated and skilled hacker.


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