# No exif data on NEF and DNG's



## Iulian (Jan 13, 2012)

Hi,

Yesterday evening, while editing a picture (Nikon's .NEF), I noticed that the Windows 7 explorer doesn't see its exif data. Lightroom does. 
Same thing if I export it as a DNG. The metadata appears in Lightroom, but the W7 Explorer doesn't seem to read it.
If I export it as a JPEG file, both the explorer and Lightroom can read the exif.

I don't know if it's normal or not, I didn't pay attention to it before. It's just annoying because I'm starting to use keywords, but since the explorer can't read the exif, they become pretty useless. :bluegrin:

Here's a screenshot of the picture in Lightroom, we can see it has the metadata.
I also opened the NEF, DNG and JPEG file details in the W7 explorer to show you what i'm talking about.

Screenshot

- To export as DNG, I simply right-click the photo>export>export to DNG.
- To export as JPEG, right-click the photo>export>choose the JPEG format>export (the "Minimize Embedded Metadata" isn't checked)

PS: The explorer doesn't show the exifs of any NEF or DNG, even the ones from last year.


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## erro (Jan 13, 2012)

NEF and DNG are "unknown" files from Win7's point of view, so Win doesn't know about any metadata in them. JPG on the other hand is a known file format and Win7 knows about its metadata.

Keywords and metadata are not "useless". You have it all inside LR. When you use LR it is best to manage your photos from within LR. The original files are of course still out there on the hard disk, available from Win7 file explorer, but anything you do to the photos inside LR (metadata, keywords, ratings, develop adjustments etc) will not be visible outside of LR. Some will, if you choose to "save metadata to file". But if you really want to have a photo available outside of LR, then "export" is the way to go in order to have all edits applied.


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## Jim Wilde (Jan 13, 2012)

For an original Raw file (NEF) or a DNG, Windows 7 will NOT natively be able to read the EXIF data.....to be able to see this data in Explorer you must therefore use a Raw Codec....I use the one from FastPictureViewer, which is now a pay-for utility, but Microsoft eventually produced their own (free) Codec last year which is available here. With either of those installed, you should be able to read the original EXIF data.

But that's only half the story.....it sounds like you also want to be able to read in Explorer any applied keywords (I don't understand why that's important to you, but that's not important). The point is that Lightroom is a non-destructive editor, which means that ANY changes you make inside Lightroom to your original files (such as Keywords, develop edits) are NOT written to the files, but are instead only stored in the catalog.....so after you've made changes you will NOT see those changes (such as keywords) in Explorer.

However, you CAN have Lightroom store those changes back inside the original files (manually by using the Ctrl+S key combination on selected files, or automatically by setting the catalog preference to "Automatically save XMP data").....then you would be able to see keywords for any DNG or Jpeg files in Explorer, but still not in your NEF Raw files, as Lightroom will not write directly into those. Instead an XMP sidecar file is created alongside the Raw (same filename, different file extension), so you would have to go look inside there using a text editor in order to see the keywords.

Most people don't bother, of course....all the data is available inside Lightroom, which has vastly superior search and organisational capabilities than Explorer.


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## Hal P Anderson (Jan 13, 2012)

Iulian,

I'm with Robert and Jim: there's really no good reason to want to see keywords of Lightroom-managed files in Explorer. When you give a file to LR to manage, all the edits you make to it are only available in Lightroom, and anything you do to that file outside of Lightroom is likely to get you into trouble. The easiest way to find an image is to keyword it in Lightroom and then to use LR's search abilities to pull it up for you when you need it.

Using Lightroom well requires a commitment to basically use it as the entry point for everything you do to your images.

Hal


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## Iulian (Jan 13, 2012)

Thanks to all of you three for taking the time to explain me.

As i said in my Introduction topic, I'm really new to LR and only use it for basic editing for the moment.
What I usually do is: 
I take the pictures.
I import the NEFs from my camera into a folder (Pictures/RAW/YEAR/Y-M-D - Event).
I open the NEF files in Lightroom, I edit them and add some metadata info + keywords.
I export them as DNGs and put them in the same folder as the NEF files, so I have the originals + the edited ones.
I also export them as JPEG, which are easier to share/send than raw files. (Pictures/JPEG/YEAR/Y-M-D - Event)
Then I delete the imported files from LR. (yes, my LR catalog is always empty, unless I'm editing something).

That's why I wanted the Explorer to be able to read the files exifs, it would have been so much easier to find them. Now it only finds the JPEGs.
I have the last Raw codec from Microsoft, doesn't seem to change anything.  (I don't even see the thumbnails - NEF or DNG)

But I'm going to try to use exclusively LR for all the managing and editing. Although it might be a little difficult in the beginning. Old habits die hard. :mrgreen:

PS: Sorry for my English, mostly self-taught. :bluegrin:


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## Jim Wilde (Jan 14, 2012)

Your English is excellent, so well-taught!

Don't know why the thumbnails don't show if you have the Raw Codec installed, as I said I don't use it myself though I've not heard any reports about it not working. Can you just confirm that when you delete the imported files from Lightroom that you're not choosing the "Remove from Disk" option? If you ARE using that option then I'm afraid you could in fact be deleting the original files (it depends on what option you used (Copy, Move or Add) when you imported into Lightroom).

Getting on to your workflow, I would think the vast majority of users just do not delete their original files.....some will keep them all online in the one catalog (such as myself), others who take far more photos than I do may 'archive' older files to external drives or other media. But they won't delete them (the analogy is that your original NEFs are the digital equivalent of the negatives from film cameras, with your exported derivatives being the equivalent of film prints, and folks generally didn't throw those negatives away when they got their prints back from the lab).

So it's good to hear you're going to start using LR as it was intended, I'm sure you'll soon get to grips with it. There are plenty of free and paid-for resources available, have a look at some of the articles in our Starter Kit, and maybe head over to Adobe TV to look at some of their free videos.

Or just ask questions here.


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## Iulian (Jan 14, 2012)

TNG said:


> Your English is excellent, so well-taught!
> Can you just confirm that when you delete the imported files from Lightroom that you're not choosing the "Remove from Disk" option? If you ARE using that option then I'm afraid you could in fact be deleting the original files (it depends on what option you used (Copy, Move or Add) when you imported into Lightroom).



Thank you !
Concerning the importing method, I just use "Add" to LR. This way it doesn't mess with my originals.
And thanks for the starting tips, I won't hesitate to ask questions if I have any problem.


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## jid9p80vph (Jan 15, 2012)

Iulian said:


> Thank you !
> Concerning the importing method, I just use "Add" to LR. This way it doesn't mess with my originals.
> And thanks for the starting tips, I won't hesitate to ask questions if I have any problem.


Iulian, just to make sure there is no misunderstanding... By "Add"ing a photo, all you are doing is telling LR where that photo is stored on your PC. So if you then delete that photo from LR and intentionally or accidentally select "Remove from Disk", the photo will be deleted from your hard disk (albeit to the recycle bin).


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## Iulian (Jan 15, 2012)

marcb said:


> Iulian, just to make sure there is no misunderstanding... By "Add"ing a photo, all you are doing is telling LR where that photo is stored on your PC. So if you then delete that photo from LR and intentionally or accidentally select "Remove from Disk", the photo will be deleted from your hard disk (albeit to the recycle bin).



I never deleted a photo with the delete key. As I said a bit earlier, my LR catalog only contains the pictures I'm editing at that precise moment. When I finish what I had to do, I just delete the folder from my catalog. 

Screenshot


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## Jim Wilde (Jan 15, 2012)

Removing at the folder level is fine. Marc and I were both concerned that you were removing at the individual file level, where there is the option to "delete from disk" as well as remove from the catalog.


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## jid9p80vph (Jan 15, 2012)

Iulian said:


> I never deleted a photo with the delete key.



OK, that's alright then. I just wanted to make sure you realised that your originals are never stored in LR itself, so adding a photo to LR does not in any way ensure you have a backup. And even if you choose the "Copy" option to import photos into the LR catalog, you still need to make sure you create backups of your photos (both the originals and the copies that LR makes if you use the "Copy" option) yourself.



Iulian said:


> As I said a bit earlier, my LR catalog only contains the pictures I'm editing at that precise moment. When I finish what I had to do, I just delete the folder from my catalog.



As a few others have mentioned, that may not be the optimum way to use LR, since you are essentially using it as a raw converter only, without using its DAM (digital asset management) functions. But read throught the Starter Kit (http://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/showthread.php?8288-The-Starter-Kit) to get some more background info, and then find a way of working which suits you best. And as you've already discovered, there are lots of people here who are happy to help you whenever necessary .


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