# Lr database questions



## Guido Belli (Apr 27, 2022)

Hi V&P,
Having an eye on Lr catalog management, I have two questions about Lr catalog.
Launching LrC, the program reads the catalog and creates the necessary temporary files. As long as the database is “open”, there is no point in backing it up because some information may not be written yet in the main DB. As LrC is shut down, it checks the integrity of the database and backs up the catalog. This procedure runs when LrC quits only. The backup sits locally and I am fully in control.
Under this respect, LrC catalog behavior is totally transparent to the user, which I love, but...
Question one.
Since the Lr catalog stays in Adobe servers, Adobe is in charge of catalog maintenance and backup.
If this is correct, apparently Lr can continuously run on desktop computers 24/7 without any unwanted consequences. In other words: there is no need to quit it to save information in the main database. Is this correct? Isn’t this what happens on mobile devices? In fact, they never quit any mobile or tablet app, unless they want to reboot the device.
Question two.
It would be interesting to have some information about Lr database management and security. I do trust Adobe and I am very happy about the way it works and the speed files are available on connected devices, but I don’t like to be totally unaware about DB management and Adobe security policies. What’s your idea?
Please note I am talking about the catalog. I know that original images can be backed up locally.
Sorry for being so long…
All the best
Guido


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## Hal P Anderson (Apr 27, 2022)

Guido Belli said:


> there is no need to quit it to save information in the main database. Is this correct?


Yes.


Guido Belli said:


> DB management and Adobe security policies. What’s your idea?


I really don't know. When LR was first announced, there was a flurry of questions about how the catalogue is maintained in the cloud, and I don't recall seeing any answers. The information may be more available now. Perhaps someone else will chime in.


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## clee01l (Apr 27, 2022)

In regard to Lightroom and the Adobe Cloud. Adobe maintains the integrity of the CURRENT data only. There is no backup of earlier data states except for the retention of the last 60 days of deleted image files. If you make a mistake, you can’t go back to an earlier catalog state and recover. And if you delete an image file by mistake, it is unrecoverable after 60 days. 

All of the above are available with a system backup and Lightroom Classic backup catalogs.

Also I’m not sure that “catalog” is a term that Adobe uses for the data stores in the cloud database. I don’t think Adobe stores copies of the original image files in the cloud. Instead it most likely uses a data base type called a “blob”to hold the data block of the original imported file. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## johnbeardy (Apr 27, 2022)

clee01l said:


> If you make a mistake, you *can* go back to an earlier catalog state and recover.



I think you mean "can't" here.


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## clee01l (Apr 27, 2022)

johnbeardy said:


> I think you mean "can't" here.



Thanks! Fixed!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Guido Belli (Apr 28, 2022)

Apparently Lr saves the edits moving from Editing, Crop and Mask "modules" to Grid view. It saves a version at the same time. Edits are not written in the cloud database before that move (the editing steps are not saved - there is nothing such as Lr History). Apparently, no saving procedure is provided moving from Editing to Full screen. If this is correct, going back every now and then to Grid view while editing seems a wise step of the workflow. It may be a good thing to have in mind, particularly if you are editing on the go using a laptop.


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## Jim Wilde (Apr 28, 2022)

Guido Belli said:


> Apparently Lr saves the edits moving from Editing, Crop and Mask "modules" to Grid view. It saves a version at the same time. Edits are not written in the cloud database before that move (the editing steps are not saved - there is nothing such as Lr History). Apparently, no saving procedure is provided moving from Editing to Full screen. If this is correct, going back every now and then to Grid view while editing seems a wise step of the workflow. It may be a good thing to have in mind, particularly if you are editing on the go using a laptop.


What basically happens when you make edits to an image in the Lightroom apps is that the edits are not synced to the cloud server while the image is still in the Detail view, although they are stored internally within the local catalog. When you switch to a different image those edits are then synced to the cloud and the "Auto Version" is saved. If you forget to do that when you close the app (i.e. the edited image is still selected in Detail view) then the edits are still automatically synced to the cloud as part of the app closedown (there was a bug in earlier versions which caused the loss of the edits of the "unsaved" image if the app was closed while that image was still active in Detail view, but that has since been fixed).

If you also sync LrClassic with the cloud, however, any edits made in LrC to a synced image do sync immediately.


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## Guido Belli (Apr 28, 2022)

Jim Wilde said:


> What basically happens when you make edits to an image in the Lightroom apps is that the edits are not synced to the cloud server while the image is still in the Detail view, although they are stored internally within the local catalog. When you switch to a different image those edits are then synced to the cloud and the "Auto Version" is saved. If you forget to do that when you close the app (i.e. the edited image is still selected in Detail view) then the edits are still automatically synced to the cloud as part of the app closedown (there was a bug in earlier versions which caused the loss of the edits of the "unsaved" image if the app was closed while that image was still active in Detail view, but that has since been fixed).
> 
> If you also sync LrClassic with the cloud, however, any edits made in LrC to a synced image do sync immediately.


Thank you for the information. This helps to understand how Lr works and to prevent information loss. Do you know if Adobe (or any other) provides  any technical documentation  on this topic?


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## Jim Wilde (Apr 28, 2022)

I'm not aware of any specific technical information, but much of what I described was fairly easily deduced from observation of the cloud sync icon as edits are made (and which was subsequently confirmed by Adobe when discussing the afore-mentioned bug).


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## BobT (May 3, 2022)

Coincidentally, I was just looking for the Lr catelogue, couldn't find it and came here looking for advice.  Your thread is timely.  I can understand Adobe preparing for a cloudy future but...


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## Rob_Cullen (May 3, 2022)

BobT said:


> I was just looking for the Lr catelogue,


For _Lightroom- _You won't find it locally! It is in the Adobe Cloud Ecosystem.
That is why it becomes available on all mobile devices with Lr installed.


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## Jim Wilde (May 3, 2022)

It's a common misunderstanding that the cloud-centric Lightroom apps do not use a local "catalog", which is not the case. How else will Lightroom be able to function and show you your non-destructive edits when you are not connected to the internet? So there is indeed a local catalog, but it is not as visible (or named the same) as the LrClassic catalogs. And of course it's subservient to the master catalog stored in the Adobe Cloud (i.e. the local catalog can be deleted and Lightroom will rebuild it from the cloud catalog on the next launch....but don't ever do that if you have local content which has not yet uploaded to the cloud!).

On Mac, the local catalog is stored deep inside the Lightroom Library.lrlibrary "package" which is always stored in the user's Pictures folder on the system drive.
On Windows, it is buried deeply within the user's Appdata/Local/Adobe/Lightroom CC folder.


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## clee01l (May 3, 2022)

Jim Wilde said:


> It's a common misunderstanding that the cloud-centric Lightroom apps do not use a local "catalog", which is not the case. How else will Lightroom be able to function and show you your non-destructive edits when you are not connected to the internet? So there is indeed a local catalog


One thing to note is that this "local" catalog only contains the information for the images imported locally or downloaded from the master library in the cloud.  The "local Libraries" for Lightroom on the desktop and on each mobile device will contain different content depending upon what is sync'd from the Adobe Cloud master.


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## Jim Wilde (May 3, 2022)

clee01l said:


> One thing to note is that this "local" catalog only contains the information for the images imported locally or downloaded from the master library in the cloud.  The "local Libraries" for Lightroom on the desktop and on each mobile device will contain different content depending upon what is sync'd from the Adobe Cloud master.


Yes, the local catalog will contain local-specific data such as which files and smart previews are currently stored locally, but the local catalog will also contain all the metadata relating to all the images in the user's library. All of the filter bar searches are conducted using the local catalog, so it follows that all the metadata information for all images has to be stored in those local catalogs.


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## Rob_Cullen (May 4, 2022)

Great advice from both Jim and Cletus, and good to know the details.  
Thanks @Jim Wilde  and @clee01l
When giving my advice (especially to beginners) I would rather not confuse the issue. As with BobT looking for a Catalog as if it were the same as a Lightroom-Classic catalog that can be copied, backed up, etc.


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## PhilBurton (May 4, 2022)

clee01l said:


> In regard to Lightroom and the Adobe Cloud. Adobe maintains the integrity of the CURRENT data only. There is no backup of earlier data states except for the retention of the last 60 days of deleted image files. If you make a mistake, you can’t go back to an earlier catalog state and recover. And if you delete an image file by mistake, it is unrecoverable after 60 days.
> 
> All of the above are available with a system backup and Lightroom Classic backup catalogs.
> 
> ...


Clee,

Just a possibly uninformed guess here.  and I may be oversimplifying a lot.

LrC users are more experienced with PCs and their issues than LR users.  If so, then LR uses aren't as attuned to issues of backup and generations of backup as are LrC users.  And Adobe is addressing the concerns of each user set accordingly.


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## johnbeardy (May 4, 2022)

Rob_Cullen said:


> When giving my advice (especially to beginners) I would rather not confuse the issue. As with BobT looking for a Catalog as if it were the same as a Lightroom-Classic catalog that can be copied, backed up, etc.



That risk of confusion is why I'd avoid saying that Cloudy Lightroom has a catalogue other than the one that's out of reach up in Adobe's cloud. Folk need shocking out of the assumption that it's as important as the Classic Lightroom catalogue. It's just an "offline cache" or "local cache".


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## Guido Belli (May 4, 2022)

Thank you for the enlightening details you gurus have provided. Very interesting but one question is still unanswered. 
Since the “master” database sits on Adobe’s servers, it would be interesting to know Adobe's security policy.
Maybe you find this page interesting https://status.adobe.com/cloud/creative_cloud . It reports Lightroom (Cloud based) staus and maintenance schedule.


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## Conrad Chavez (May 4, 2022)

Guido Belli said:


> Thank you for the enlightening details you gurus have provided. Very interesting but one question is still unanswered.
> Since the “master” database sits on Adobe’s servers, it would be interesting to know Adobe's security policy.


Adobe has this page, that leads to additional links: Creative Cloud Security
Also, you can subscribe to an email newsletter that lists the latest vulnerabilities. Go to the Security Bulletins and Advisories page, expand Notify Me in the sidebar, and you can subscribe to a newsletter and, more importantly, Adobe Security Notifications. Or you can just read the bulletin links on that page.


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## Guido Belli (May 4, 2022)

Conrad Chavez said:


> Adobe has this page, that leads to additional links: Creative Cloud Security
> Also, you can subscribe to an email newsletter that lists the latest vulnerabilities. Go to the Security Bulletins and Advisories page, expand Notify Me in the sidebar, and you can subscribe to a newsletter and, more importantly, Adobe Security Notifications. Or you can just read the bulletin links on that page.


Thank you!


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