# Blue sky artifacts when using a circular polarizer and a wide-ish angle lens.



## Sharon R. Nahill (Oct 28, 2016)

Hello!

This is my first thread on this forum so bear with me!  Thanks in advance. I am wondering how I can even out the blue sky in my photos when I have used a circular polarizing filter with a wide-ish lens. Some of the sky is a brilliant blue but other portions fade into a garish white when the sun is to the side of me while I am taking the photo (I think).  A professional photographer friend of mine who uses Nikon equipment and Nikon photo editor says he has a tool to do just that. I imagine Lightroom or photoshop has it too. I am not familiar with but have access to, photoshop (with my adobe photoshop and Lightroom subscription). Could you please direct me to a place where I can learn how to do that in lightroom?

Thanks so much!


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## tspear (Oct 28, 2016)

In the develop module, I have used the radial filter and the gradient filters to address this issue. Both allow you adjust local exposures, color...
Selecting which one to use depends on the picture.


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## Sharon R. Nahill (Oct 28, 2016)

Sahron R. Nahill said:


> Hello!
> 
> This is my first thread on this forum so bear with me!  Thanks in advance. I am wondering how I can even out the blue sky in my photos when I have used a circular polarizing filter with a wide-ish lens. Some of the sky is a brilliant blue but other portions fade into a garish white when the sun is to the side of me while I am taking the photo (I think).  A professional photographer friend of mine who uses Nikon equipment and Nikon photo editor says he has a tool to do just that. I imagine Lightroom or photoshop has it too. I am not familiar with but have access to, photoshop (with my adobe photoshop and Lightroom subscription). Could you please direct me to a place where I can learn how to do that in lightroom?
> 
> Thanks so much!





tspear said:


> In the develop module, I have used the radial filter and the gradient filters to address this issue. Both allow you adjust local exposures, color...
> Selecting which one to use depends on the picture.


Dear Tim, 
Thank you so much for the rapid response. I will look into the radial filter. I have never used that before. The gradient filter does not seem to do the trick even when I apply more than one from different directions. Any clues on how to apply the gradient filter when you have a cone of dark blue with objects like tress and mountains jutting into the blue?


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## tspear (Oct 28, 2016)

Sharon,

Try the automask. Basically, I apply the gradient filter or the radial filter, then switch to brush mode with erase turned on using the auto mask to erase the areas I do not wish to apply.
Using a google search, here is a video that shows the basics of the erase and add techniques using a brush. 
Using the NEW Filter Brush in Lightroom 6 and Lightroom Creative Cloud
Note: I know nothing about the site, it just came up in a search. I do not "purchase" presets, in fact I barely use them at all.

Tim


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## Sharon R. Nahill (Oct 28, 2016)

tspear said:


> Sharon,
> 
> Try the automask. Basically, I apply the gradient filter or the radial filter, then switch to brush mode with erase turned on using the auto mask to erase the areas I do not wish to apply.
> Using a google search, here is a video that shows the basics of the erase and add techniques using a brush.
> ...


Thanks so much. I will watch the videos and learn how to use automask. More when I need more help!
Be well!


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 28, 2016)

Maybe you should also ask yourself why you use a polarizer in the first place. In the days of film, we often used polarizers to enhance the sky. Using this filter would increase the contrast between the blue sky and the white clouds. It also increased the overall color saturation. With a digital camera that is no longer necessary. It's pretty easy to do those things in Lightroom. Try a little 'Dehaze' and see what that does to a blue sky!

I'm not saying that you should never use a polarizer. This filter can still do a few tricks (like removing reflection from the surface of water) that are very difficult to do in post production. But if you still use a polarizer to enhance the sky or to enhance the overall color saturation, it may be a better idea to learn to do that in Lightroom rather than to learn how to _undo_ the unwanted side-effects of the polarizer in Lightroom...


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## Sharon R. Nahill (Oct 28, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> Maybe you should also ask yourself why you use a polarizer in the first place. In the days of film, we often used polarizers to enhance the sky. Using this filter would increase the contrast between the blue sky and the white clouds. It also increased the overall color saturation. With a digital camera that is no longer necessary. It's pretty easy to do those things in Lightroom. Try a little 'Dehaze' and see what that does to a blue sky!
> 
> I'm not saying that you should never use a polarizer. This filter can still do a few tricks (like removing reflection from the surface of water) that are very difficult to do in post production. But if you still use a polarizer to enhance the sky or to enhance the overall color saturation, it may be a better idea to learn to do that in Lightroom rather than to learn how to _undo_ the unwanted side-effects of the polarizer in Lightroom...


Hi Johan,
Thanks so much for your help and suggestions. In answer to your question, I use a cpolarizer to remove glare, not really to intensify the blue sky, although that is nice when it happens. I photograph most often from my kayak and glare on the water and greenery is really an issue. I often use dehaze and vibrancy to saturate colors when I do not use my cpolarizer.  Again. Thanks so much!


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## Sharon R. Nahill (Oct 28, 2016)

Oh! One other thing...another reason I am reluctant to let go of my cpolarizer is because I have a very bad habit of taking pictures close to midday !


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## Sharon R. Nahill (Oct 28, 2016)

tspear said:


> Sharon,
> 
> Try the automask. Basically, I apply the gradient filter or the radial filter, then switch to brush mode with erase turned on using the auto mask to erase the areas I do not wish to apply.
> Using a google search, here is a video that shows the basics of the erase and add techniques using a brush.
> ...


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## Sharon R. Nahill (Oct 28, 2016)

Hi Tim,

I did not realize the radial filter had a brush with it! I watched the clip and then read in my Lightroom manual how to use it to erase "a mask". Thanks again. I will give it a try.


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## tspear (Oct 28, 2016)

Sharon R. Nahill said:


> Oh! One other thing...another reason I am reluctant to let go of my cpolarizer is because I have a very bad habit of taking pictures close to midday !



Yeah that makes it a touch more difficult 
I have found adjusting my shooting position often works better. But then I am taking mostly landscape and family type photos so I have more control then some other types of photography.


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## Sharon R. Nahill (Oct 28, 2016)

tspear said:


> Yeah that makes it a touch more difficult
> I have found adjusting my shooting position often works better. But then I am taking mostly landscape and family type photos so I have more control then some other types of photography.


I agree. Adjusting my position for the polarizer is something I often overlook because I am momentarily so attached to the spot that caught my eye! Silly, too because I am usually in a kayak and it is pretty easy to move around (unlike when on a mountain top or by a waterfall). Of course, the closer to midday, the less it matters! My bad, I say! Thanks so much for your time and advice. Be well.


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## Howard Dickson (Nov 6, 2016)

Sharon R. Nahill said:


> Oh! One other thing...another reason I am reluctant to let go of my cpolarizer is because I have a very bad habit of taking pictures close to midday !


Sharon,

Rather than rely on a polarizer filter to compensate for midday brightness, I would recommend instead using the Exposure Compensation dial on your camera. In bright shooting conditions, wind in a minus 0.3, 0.6 or a full -1 stop of exposure compensation. This takes the glare out of shots and has the added benefit of saturating colours, the lower you go. I live in Andalucia, Spain, and have to use this method to tame the harsh sunlight here. After a while, you learn to recognise bright conditions, and surroundings (white walls, bright clothing etc) and how much compensation is required, checking the camera's rear lcd for highlights. This means you can leave your polarizer solely for reflection clarity shots. I therefore normally only have a UV or lens protector filter fitted to my lenses. Hope this helps!


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## Sharon R. Nahill (Nov 7, 2016)

Howard Dickson said:


> Sharon,
> 
> Rather than rely on a polarizer filter to compensate for midday brightness, I would recommend instead using the Exposure Compensation dial on your camera. In bright shooting conditions, wind in a minus 0.3, 0.6 or a full -1 stop of exposure compensation. This takes the glare out of shots and has the added benefit of saturating colours, the lower you go. I live in Andalucia, Spain, and have to use this method to tame the harsh sunlight here. After a while, you learn to recognise bright conditions, and surroundings (white walls, bright clothing etc) and how much compensation is required, checking the camera's rear lcd for highlights. This means you can leave your polarizer solely for reflection clarity shots. I therefore normally only have a UV or lens protector filter fitted to my lenses. Hope this helps!




Thanks so much for your help. Lowering the exposure really helps me when I am silly enough to be taking pictures outside at midday! Fall foliage color is also much better when the picture is slightly underexposed, no matter what time of day you shoot. Have you noticed that?
Thanks again!


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## Gnits (Nov 7, 2016)

All good advise.  However, many people do not fully appreciate the value of using a circular polarizer when shooting foliage, as many leaves have a shiney surface, which reflects light and causes loss of contrast, colour and lots of specular highlights.  

Wide angle, plus lots of blue sky plus circular polarizer is a scenario to avoid (if possible).


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## tspear (Nov 7, 2016)

Gnits said:


> All good advise.  However, many people do not fully appreciate the value of using a circular polarizer when shooting foliage, as many leaves have a shiney surface, which reflects light and causes loss of contrast, colour and lots of specular highlights.
> 
> Wide angle, plus lots of blue sky plus circular polarizer is a scenario to avoid (if possible).



Gnits,

I am not following. When are you saying to use and not use a circular polarizer?


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## Gnits (Nov 7, 2016)

I have extreme sympathy with the original poster ... who has to deal with this scenario...



Sharon R. Nahill said:


> I photograph most often from my kayak and glare on the water and greenery is really an issue.



Using a wide angle with a circular polarizer with a large blue skyscape in the composition will result in a very noticeable shift of colours across the sky, but yet the OP  needs the polarizer to minimise glare on the water and reflections from the leaves. Trying to recover this in post processing is a recipe for frustration.

So ... if you can ....
1. Avoid using a polarizer with a wide angle and lots of blue sky.
2. Seriously consider a polarizer if you are shooting foliage

Sometimes there is no perfect solution where scenario 1 & 2 combine.  All you can do is be aware of the constraints and compose your image to minimise unwanted optical effects.  Your options in a kayak are seriously limited. On the other hand, on the bank with a tripod use a longer focal length and take several vertical shots to stitch later. Much easier than trying to remove a variable colour shift.


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## Jimmsp (Nov 7, 2016)

If indeed you shoot a lot at mid-day, you might also try shooting 3 quick shots for HDR. LR does an excellent job on alignment of handheld shots, esp if you are not moving forward a lot in your kayak. The -2 ev shot shot might help produce a better sky to work with.


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## tspear (Nov 7, 2016)

Gnits said:


> I have extreme sympathy with the original poster ... who has to deal with this scenario...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ok, now I follow, thank you.


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