# Can Anyone Help ID These Negatives



## smcf (Jan 30, 2015)

Hi, 
We have a lot of B&W negatives given to us. Some are on glass plates, some flat (non-glass) and some are rolled up real tight. They're all pretty much the same size (3 1/2" x 4 3/4"). I haven't a clue about how old these negatives are, why some are on glass and some aren't, what film format they are, time period, what type of camera might have been used (other than medium format), etc. All I really know is they were taken by someone in Switzerland. From scanning a few of them on an Epson flatbed I can tell that the negs are pretty grainy, which surprised me since I thought there'd be more detail. Can anyone help shed some light (pun!) on this for me. I've done some searching including looking up wikipedia and at least one page there suggests the film format is 541 but I couldn't really find much info on that film format. 

Help!!!!


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## Roelof Moorlag (Jan 30, 2015)

Could you provide a scan (with complete border)?


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## Roelof Moorlag (Jan 30, 2015)

Maybe the Rescued Film Project can help identify the origins..
[video=vimeo;116735360]http://vimeo.com/116735360 [/video]
Roelof


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## smcf (Jan 30, 2015)

Roelof, will do when I get home but just for info ... there are no visible markers or numbers on the borders of the negatives. Cheers for the link!
S.

Edit: I should add, that I'm pretty sure the glass negatives (or most at least) don't have any identifying marks. I think some of the flat negs have exposure frame numbers. I'll have to check tonight.


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## smcf (Jan 31, 2015)

Here's a sample image, in this case one of the non-glass negs. It has a 283 stamped on the edge. A number of the normal negs have 283 stamped on them. I say stamped because you can feel the impression. Some of the normal negs have a # 10 on them. Last but not least many of the glass negs have no borders at all; the glass is cut to the full size of the neg. I'm wondering even whether these are second gen negs? Don't know really. They definitely don't have the normal track holes on the x axis for transporting the film across the shutter area. Again any clues would be appreciated. Cheers,


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## ChuckTin (Aug 1, 2015)

My guess would be "Lumiere" film, post-war (WW2) in northern Italy.
I think there was a camera size, mostly European, that produced negatives with those dimensions, when you measure them are they exactly as given or would metric scale be closer?
Also you should be able to tell if they were from roll stock or the thicker sheet film.
If 2nd gen then the images would be mirror-reversed as they would most-likely have been made by contact (emulsion to emulsion) rather than projected and correctly orientated.
There was a series of cameras that used 4x5 sheets cut in half, to be less expensive, the naming escapes me now. And I think some really early roll film was 3 1/2 inches across.
A rambling commentary but I hope it helps you.


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## Dale Strumpell (Aug 1, 2015)

Could the grain be a result of low scanner resolution? What dpi are you scanning at? Also, too much sharpening can exaggerate grain. Is the scanning software adding sharpening? Could you tell us the model scanner and type of software and the settings of the software?


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## Rob_Cullen (Aug 2, 2015)

Maybe relevant info- from "Kodak Cameras- The First Hundred Years" by Brian Coe (author)
The 'Premo' trademark was obtained by the Eastman Kodak Company in 1907. The Premo camera range had been mainly plate cameras, in 1903 a new form of camera was introduced- A set of celluloid cut films were held in a flat container, each had a numbered paper tab attached, after each exposure the tab was pulled, drawing the exposed film from the front to the back of the pack and torn off. Adapters were made to fit many cameras. Premo film packs  were given a number sequence in 1913, the name changed from Premo film packs to Kodak film packs in June 1922 and the 300 series numbers were changed to a 500 series.
Film Type:  For 31/2 x 41/4 negative-  Premo Film Number 341 Kodak Number 541 Date 1920


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## ChuckTin (Aug 2, 2015)

I certainly remember the concept. Only the size we had was 4x5. The name was something like "Graphmatic". They were a real beach to work with in the camera and a true PITA in the darkroom.
When shooting you had to remember to pull out the paper tabs and tear them off or else "Holy sheet, did I shoot that one twice?" Or "Have I forgotten to pull. .."
Then in the dark we had a special guillotine cutter to slice off the torn paper tabs before processing ... "Don't slice the tips off your fingers! The D76 formula doesn't include or need iron or plasma." Then you had the _joy_ of loading the flimsy sheets into the film carriers. 
And it was fun.


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## ChuckTin (Sep 16, 2015)

Did any of this help?
Was fun remembering!


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## smcf (Sep 16, 2015)

Thanks for inquiring. The scanning project is complete and the negatives remain unidentified. I gave up searching at the time since the scanning was taking up pretty much all my free time away from work. There were a lot of negatives to scan. But it's done thankfully. If I have some time at some point I'll try searching again and perhaps take them to a lab to see if they can help. Cheers,
S.


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## ChuckTin (Sep 16, 2015)

Ok, was curious


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