# MAC <-> Windows question, NOT WAR!!!!



## wblink (Mar 12, 2008)

Hi,

I am reading (and learning A LOT) on this forum.
I am a Window's user. Just streamed in like (almost) everyone.

I noticed here (and as a fact in many other graphical surroundings) that you people like to use Mac's.

What is the reasoning behind that?
Did you already use MAC and were attracted to he graphical scene, which was obvious, because you already used MAC, or did the graphical scene made you change to MAC?

Is my assumption right that MAC is more headed toward graphical programs than Windows is?

You know: I have lived part of a lifetime (I am 56 years young or old) and want to fill the rest of my life with the thing I like to do most and that is take and publish photographs. As long as I am not retired I can take the time to learn and make choices.

Cheers? OK?


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## Ian Farlow (Mar 12, 2008)

I will be watching this Thread closely. Civil discussions only, please.


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## wblink (Mar 12, 2008)

Ian Farlow;1'31' said:
			
		

> I will be watching this Thread closely. Civil discussions only, please.


 
That is fair, and good for me: Thank you.

I realise I could risk a WAR, but I have been some time om this forum now and I have very good faith and expectations.

Thanks from Holland folks!


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## rcannonp (Mar 12, 2008)

My first real computing experience was on Macs because that's what they used when I was studying design in college. They told us then(1994) that PCs didn't handle postscript fonts correctly, so that's why Macs were used for design work. Also, Photoshop didn't come out for Windows until September of that year(I think). When I went back to school in 1998 to study photography, the school used Macs, so when I bought my own, it made sense to stick with what I knew.

Now, most of the people that I know and work with in the commercial photography business use Macs. I know a couple of photographers that use PCs, but I've never seen an art director show up to a shoot with a PC laptop. On the flip side, I don't think that I've ever seen an account person show up with a Mac.


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## DonRicklin (Mar 12, 2008)

I went from PC's to Mac, Actually a short lived Mac clone, back with Windows 286 on a 486, before Pentiums came out. Don't see any reason to move back now. Especially when I can run both Mac and a Windows OS (or Unix flavor) on the same Intel-Mac Machine.

Don


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 12, 2008)

I switched middle of 2''6.  At the time, the biggest reason was that LR wasn't available for Windows, simple as that.  Plus I was bored and I fancied a change.

Now, I admit, I won't switch back for as long as I have a choice.  I still run a network of 1' windows machines at the studio - largely due to cost and trying to retrain the staff would be a pain.  For my own machines, I have the best of both worlds, as I do still run some Windows programs on my Mac using Parallels.  But I like the way the Mac OS thinks, and as I sit staring at the thing for nigh on 18 hours a day, the general user experience is important to me.

For graphics work, the Mac colour management setup is a big plus, as is the memory management.  But there are still limited options for certain software - accounts software, for example, I still run on Windows.

At the end of the day, it's just a tool, and both will do the job.


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## MikeCaine (Mar 12, 2008)

Ian Farlow;1'31' said:
			
		

> I will be watching this Thread closely. Civil discussions only, please.



I'm honestly a little disappointed that you feel the need to post that warning on this (your) forum.

I changed from PC to Mac at home about 3 years ago. Why? The screen shots in most photo mags seemed to be mainly Mac based and after using Windows since 3.1 I felt like a change of scenery and thought I'd give this Mac thing a go. I also like to learn new things and have a wider experience of computing. My wife still uses Windows and I have to use Windows at work.

I do like the Mac OS and there's a lot less housekeeping to do with all of the anti virus updates that windows users have to do. I also like some of the Mac software better than the Windows equivalent.


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 12, 2008)

MikeCaine;1'317 said:
			
		

> I'm honestly a little disappointed that you feel the need to post that warning on this (your) forum.



It was only a friendly warning Mike.  Mac vs PC debates seem to bring out the worst in the nicest friendliest of forums, and we'd all hate to see that happen here!


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## MikeCaine (Mar 12, 2008)

I just thought the members here were above silly operating system and camera brand wars and could be trusted to have a sensible discussion like adults


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## Victoria Bampton (Mar 12, 2008)

I hope so Mike.  Those who regularly post here are a great crowd!


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## Ian Farlow (Mar 12, 2008)

MikeCaine;1'32' said:
			
		

> I just thought the members here were above silly operating system and camera brand wars and could be trusted to have a sensible discussion like adults



We take on new members on a daily basis, so while the regulars here are known, civil, and clearly demonstrate an ability to have decent conversation, I know nothing about the new members.

These discussions, as pointed out by Victoria, all too often break down into arguments over why one system is "clearly" superior to the other, and how (stupid/vain/ignorant/fanboy/your choice of detrimental description) someone is for choosing one system over another.

I don't want that here, and while we are still a young Site, I want to reinforce certain key rules when the opportunity arises. As time moves on, I expect to feel compelled to do this less and less. In the meantime, I am sorry you are disappointed, but hopefully my explanation clears up my reasoning for posting as I did.


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## Kiwigeoff (Mar 12, 2008)

I use a Mac and have done since, I think, 1993. That was when I first ventured into digital imaging with a printer that printed digital files onto photo paper. Each file was an export from Photoshop, rather time consuming !! At that point Photoshop was only available for the Mac OS so I had no option. I had never used a computer prior to that and received great support from the Mac importers as I purchased the biggest/best I could get a Power PC 96''. I liked what I had and found it so easy to use, today that is no different. Have been on the net since those days and have never had a problem/virus etc. There have been a lot of changes over time but in total I have had only 4 Macs. One hard drive crashed on the original (we had Raid, even then), a power supply failure on an iMac (the original) and that's it for maintenance.
Why would I choose any thing else with all the issues I see with PCs? There has/is still a few issues with the switch from Motorola chips to Intel, hence I still use a G5 which works just fine. My next Mac, probably at the end of the year will be an intel Mac though.
That's my reasoning summed up by - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"


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## Andrew Hayton (Mar 13, 2008)

I have always used a Mac and can't get on with PC's at all. I  think it comes down to what you start with you stay with, although there now appears to be many more PC-Mac converts again. The downside to the Macs is their cost but their ease of use and quality are second to none imho. If Macs were the same price as PC's then I think a lot more PC users would switch, especially as you can now run the Mac as a PC.


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## Richard Earney (Mar 13, 2008)

I got a Mac in 1989 having used a PC sparingly. In those days you couldn't do anything graphical on the PC. Pagemaker was about it and that wasn't enough.

Ease of use, colour management, Postscript, Photoshop and Quark XPress were Mac only.

Always frustrated when I do have to use a PC because it just doesn't get it interface-wise. It is often the little things on a Mac that make such a huge difference.

I often quote "It just works" as the reason for getting a Mac and enough PC user friends of mine have converted and been sold on it!


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## Bruce J (Mar 13, 2008)

Willem,

I think what you are seeing currently in the split between Mac users and Win users is mostly a leftover from the big bang, that being the initial split between people who were drawn to the Macintosh (graphic professionals) and those who were drawn to the PC (primarily business users).  This occurred when, maybe in the late '8's?  I'm sure the Mac users here can tell us when the first Mac arrived.  In those days, there was a big difference between the graphic capabilities between the two platforms.  People drifted to which ever platform attracted them and have pretty much stuck with what works for them.

These days, I see very little difference in graphic capabilities between the two platforms.  Both support great graphics engines (hardware) and both support completely color-managed applications.  Windows supports a completely open hardware platform; Mac is closed.  One consequence of that is, as previously noted, Macs tend to be a bit more expensive for a given performance level.  Both operating systems are completely proprietary.  There are more software applications available for Win systems than Mac, but now that you can run Win software on a Mac, that's less of an issue.  And, if you don't need to run those applications, who cares?  In the end, I think it really comes down to finding your own comfort zone.

As far as where I come from, I've used Win machines since long before Windows existed (they were called PCs then).  I used an early Mac for awhile, but as a software developer, it was too limited at the time for the applications I needed to run.  I'm currently running 2 Win machines at home, 4 Win machines at work, 2 Linux workstations, and several Linux servers.  In the nearly 3' years that I have been running PCs, I have *never *had a virus or other malware on one of my machines (he says with crossed fingers).  Well, other than the operating system, of course.  Having said all of that, I'm seriously thinking about trying a Mac again when I next upgrade.  Go figure!  It's just a tool, after all.


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## wblink (Mar 13, 2008)

Victoria Bampton;1'323 said:
			
		

> I hope so Mike. Those who regularly post here are a great crowd!


 

That is why I dared to post my msg here. And you guys don't dissapoint me: I am getting clear info, without any war-feelings. It is nice to see that it can go this way too.

Thank you all.

Would a MacBookPro do?


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## Sean McCormack (Mar 18, 2008)

Personally I started on an Atari 1'4'STE.. How sad am I?

My college experience was mixed Mac and PC. I used Mac for design and odd video stuff. PC was the mainstay of the electronics department, so that's what I went with. Some of you know I work as a sound engineer. I did a lot of recording when I was younger and more interested. Around that time Digidesign brought out a device called the MBox, a 2 channel recorder for Pro Tools. Mac only. I wanted a device for recording  concerts, so I bought an iBook. 
It didn't take long to switch to Mac completely after my experience with the iBook.


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## MikeCaine (Mar 18, 2008)

Sean McCormack;1'8'6 said:
			
		

> Personally I started on an Atari 1'4'STE.. How sad am I?



Luxury! 

I started with a Sinclair ZX8'


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## Brad Snyder (Mar 18, 2008)

Sean McCormack;1'8'6 said:
			
		

> Personally I started on an Atari 1'4'STE.. How sad am I?


You know that for some reason that doesn't surprise me a bit.
The Atari 1'4' was my first home computer. I had a great deal of mainframe (IBM, Burroughs and DEC) and time-sharing experience earlier with Apple II, and CP/M for "micros".  

I was quite enamored of my Atari 1'4' with the very first HP DeskJet.
Remember when it was nicknamed the "Jackintosh", after Atari's owner in that era?

I've been rooted in the Wintel world, having originated in a corporate environment. In helping my wife, the entrepreneur, I've stuck with the sunk learning curve investment and stayed with Wintel.

Doesn't mean that I'm not suffering from Mac-envy tho'.


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## DonRicklin (Mar 19, 2008)

MY earliest was the 16 Color Tandy (Not the TSR) running Norton Desktop under MS-Dos. No modem, no internet.

Fun times!

Don


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## Bruce J (Mar 19, 2008)

DonRicklin;1'843 said:
			
		

> MY earliest was the 16 Color Tandy (Not the TSR) running Norton Desktop under MS-Dos. No modem, no internet.
> 
> Fun times!
> 
> Don



I guess I forgot to mention that I actually started on an IBM 65' RAMAC.  Go look that up in your Funk & Wagnals . . . err . . . Wikipedia.  Hint: it was programmed w/ little wires on a plug board.  OK, at least you now know that I'm not exactly a youngster.  Cheers all, and sorry for the OT.


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## pjamedia (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm interested in this one as looking for a new laptop and considering a Mac this time just because of the great baclklit display. I might start a new topic on Laptops!

Paul


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## Ian Farlow (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm definitely loving my MBP. Wouldn't give it up for anything, except maybe a new MBP.


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## Andrew Hayton (Jun 26, 2008)

Ian,

Why not buy a new MBP and I'll buy your old one


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## stasber (Jun 27, 2008)

For some people it's a cold and logical decision to go with one system or another, but for me the experience is important.

I've been using Microsoft since MS DOS and grew up through the incarnations of Windows and it has always stuck me as just an ordinary machine-that-gets-the-job-done experience. At work I use a Dell laptop with XP, and still, it's just ordinary and something to live with.

I caught the Mac bug in 2''3 (who says the Mac is virus-free LOL - I'm still infected!!) and bought a G3 iBook as my personal computer at home, to replace my seriously groggy and festering Toshiba laptop, and have enjoyed the experience ever since. Today I can still sit in front of my Mac screen for hours on end and actually not tire of it and enjoy the experience, whether for work or for pleasure.

There is better hardware and software integration on a Mac and the whole thing just knits together so much better/smoother than on a Windows machine. I rarely get interrupted by some obscure message, and plug & play functionality is truly plug & play, I've not encountered anything untoward as it seems to know what you plug in. I can't use some of my USB devices (memory sticks, even) on the Dell (a current model) as I have to install a driver from a cd I don't have. Windows is still 'messy' in these regards and I can't put my confidence in it.

Knowledge sharing seems to be better & easier to reach on Mac support sites (and the Apple discussion forums too) as does the knowledge base, it's 'cleaner'. On the other hand, Windows info is available anywhere and everywhere and by pretty much everyone, so it is plentiful, you just have to dig around and sift through it.


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## wblink (Jun 27, 2008)

stasber;1633' said:
			
		

> I caught the Mac bug in 2''3 (who says the Mac is virus-free LOL - I'm still infected!!) and bought a G3 iBook as my personal computer at home, to replace my seriously groggy and festering Toshiba laptop, and have enjoyed the experience ever since.
> 
> Today I can still sit in front of my Mac screen for hours on end and actually not tire of it and enjoy the experience, whether for work or for pleasure.


 

Hey,
You put in the right perspective for me.
I have been using my comp for many, many different tasks. Now I am getting older (NOT OLD JUST 56!!!) and Mac has been developing where Windows has not I am more ready than ever to switch.

My main use (now) is Photowork (M is far much better than W in that), other things can be done in MAC too. Just some irritations in Safari: some of my passworded sites won't work. I assume word, excel, outlook have equivalent prgms in MAC?

I think it is obvious I want to be pulled over (I feel I look like an elderly lady (oops, man, don't discriminate) waiting to find someone to help get her/him to cross the street

Will you help me young man?


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## stasber (Jun 27, 2008)

As I frequently shoot music gigs, I sometimes hear the phrase "sorry, I don't do requests" :mrgreen:

Photo work has taken over my Mac since a couple of years ago; that and my iTunes music library, everything else is kinda relegated to a relatively small external hard drive.


The only issue I encountered in Safari is where PayPal decided not to like it. I have no problems with Firefox at all and use the two in companion, esp as Firefox has plug-ins, especially the EXIF viewer.

Microsoft have Office for Mac, which essentially includes Word, Excel and PowerPoint, though the package hasn't been updated in a while (or maybe it has been more recently that I'm not on top of) and the Mac version of Outlook is called Entourage, but to be honest the inbuilt Mac Mail program is comprehensive and good by all accounts. Not sure how heavy an Outlook user you are. Importing Outlook to Mail should be painless, again depending on how customized your Outlook is.

If you want to part with more Apple money then the recently rebadged .Mac service is being relaunched shortly as MobileMe and offers online access to the main Apple productivity tools like Mail, iCal (calendar) etc - you can read more about it at Apple. If you were to use Entourage then this functionality wouldn't be available. They do have some great ideas but it'll cost (most people's main gripe about Apple). Having said that I canceled my .Mac subscription earlier this year - will see how MobileMe pans out 

Apple's equivalent to Office is iWork, Pages (Word), Numbers (Excel), Keynote (PowerPoint). I use Pages a lot and prefer it over Word but for heavily text based documents, Word would probably suit better. iWork costs a fraction of Office.
 No issues with compatibility with Windows either.

The thing with Apple, generally, is that - to quote another advert - "it does exactly what it says on the tin" - so that what you read about in their blurbs it generally does that and does it without a fuss, and that's another thing I like about their products.


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## wblink (Jun 27, 2008)

stasber said:


> The only issue I encountered in Safari is where PayPal decided not to like it. I have no problems with Firefox at all and use the two in companion, esp as Firefox has plug-ins, especially the EXIF viewer.


 

Ok, thank you young man.
You helped me over, but left me 3/4 accross the street.
Luckily I didn't get hurt ('would have made some trouble' (grin)).

Think it is best to try a Powerbook (any recommandations (no NOT AIR book please)) for a start?

What is a whise choise, so I can keep my powerbook (sound like I really have it ...) in company with W and afterwards in companion with the full Mac Pro )ofcourse?).

Without kidding (again):
Best Mac laptop to start with next ot W, with the intention to switch to MAC entirely.

Anyone's problem is an answer to this question, my problem is to find te resources. 

Hey, I found a gold-thread! Problem solved! Do you want to have a Hummer?


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## wblink (Jun 27, 2008)

Hi,

I think my previeuws post was to full of not concrete info. I really would like to switch to MAC.


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## Victoria Bampton (Jun 27, 2008)

Willem, go with a MacBook or MacBook Pro - you can pick up some really great refurb deals.  Put plenty of RAM in it - 3gb at least.  You'll love it.

Outlook to Mac Mail is an easy transfer with a little cheap program called O2M.  Office is available for Mac, but take a serious look at iWork if you don't need complete compatibility with other MS Office users - great program, and much much cheaper.  Of course, you can always run Windows in a Window - MacHeist have got a good deal on Parallels virtualization software this weekend.

Go for it!


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## wblink (Jun 28, 2008)

Victoria Bampton said:


> Willem, go with a MacBook or MacBook Pro - you can pick up some really great refurb deals. Put plenty of RAM in it - 3gb at least. You'll love it.
> 
> Outlook to Mac Mail is an easy transfer with a little cheap program called O2M. Office is available for Mac, but take a serious look at iWork if you don't need complete compatibility with other MS Office users - great program, and much much cheaper. Of course, you can always run Windows in a Window - MacHeist have got a good deal on Parallels virtualization software this weekend.
> 
> Go for it!


 
Thank you,

Ran into the ordering process on apple.nl but stepped on hold when I saw the price (>€31'') for the machine I chose.

Will do it when money permits and that is NOT just now.

"Refurb deals"? Where?


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## Victoria Bampton (Jun 28, 2008)

Well, my language skills are limited, but guessing from the pictures, I'd say this page:  http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/nlstore.woa/wa/RSLID?sf=w2XYDYCKH9DY44DKH&nclm=C61AFE24  if the link still works, otherwise down the bottom right hand corner of the main Apple Store page.  Looks like they're all out at the moment though.  You could try googling 'Mac Refurb' and see if there are resellers offering refurbished deals.


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## Ian Farlow (Jul 3, 2008)

Easternherp;163'7 said:
			
		

> Ian,
> 
> Why not buy a new MBP and I'll buy your old one



Okay. $25''.'' and it's yours. No, wait... $3'''.'' and it's yours.


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## Fevida (Aug 20, 2008)

I switched from PC to Mac in 2''5, but not because of photography. Although I'm a mac-fan I'm not going to preach. Concerning photo-related-software, I think it runs just as great on a Windows as a OSX computer. Maby things like color-calibration and backup (Timemachine) are a bit easier, but can be achieved on both platforms. Apart from the OS I think Apple produces nice (but sometimes expencive) hardware, but the only thing particularie importand for photographers here is the screen-quality which is just as great on some PC's to. At the end it just a personal choice, pick the one which feels to most natural to use. Remember your computer needs to be a tool to make your life as photographer easier, it's not a goal by itself.


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## Anthony.Ralph (Aug 20, 2008)

Just to add a touch of balance(!) I started with PCs back in the DOS2.' days having used a TI994a before that. Because of being in business, I continued with PCs and obviously Windows, starting with V.3.1

As a photographer and graphics/design junkie I think the Mac hardware; both computer and other kit, is beautifully designed with an elegance never achieved by the PC. Nevertheless, because of my experience and knowledge of the beast built up over the years, I am staying with my PC and Vista (I find it works really well despite what other may say to the contrary), so the boring box stays under the desk where I don't need to see it and the NEC Spectraview 269' doesn't lack elegance at all.

Realistically, using either PC or Mac is a pleasant experience now and in the case of programs like  Photoshop or Lightroom, for example, things are pretty much functionally identical.

The most important thing is to enjoy whatever you decide to get...

Anthony.


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## Ian Farlow (Aug 21, 2008)

Man... my first computer was an Apple ][+. Then an IBM Micro Channel. Somewhere in there I had a Commodore 64. Ah the memories.


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## Denis Pagé (Aug 28, 2008)

Ian Farlow;2''75 said:
			
		

> Man... my first computer was an Apple ][+. Then an IBM Micro Channel. Somewhere in there I had a Commodore 64. Ah the memories.


Memories?... :roll:

My first one was a "CARDIAC" computer given to me by Bell Canada in the sixties! _("CARton DIdactique Accessoire" or Didactic Cardboard Accessory if you will)_. There was a CPU, enough memory I never used it all, a dozen memory pointers, a stack and registers... It was powered by hand by pulling sliders through slots and moving memory pointers in holes. You wrote memory cells with a lead pencil and erased it - as you guessed - with the pencil's eraser. It came with a very well written and illustrated book.

I still have it, it is still working and obviously, never failed!


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## Brad Snyder (Aug 28, 2008)

Mine had two sticks with numbers etched on them that rubbed together. All the coeds went crazy for the geeks with the belt-hook slide-rule case.  (NOT!)


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## Kiwigeoff (Aug 28, 2008)

Brad Snyder;2'84' said:
			
		

> Mine had two sticks with numbers etched on them that rubbed together. All the coeds went crazy for the geeks with the belt-hook slide-rule case.  (NOT!)



You are showing your age there Brad, what is a slide rule??????!!:cheesy::lol:


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## Ian Farlow (Aug 29, 2008)

Remember Intellivision, anyone?


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## Braders (Aug 31, 2008)

Atari 26'' popped my cherry..

My second, her name was Commodore 64. She gave me 3 yrs of joy with classics like Boulder Dash and Galaxian

Ah, the days of DOS


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## Ian Farlow (Aug 31, 2008)

PC-DOS or MS-DOS?


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## Braders (Aug 31, 2008)

MS-DOS wasn't it? c1977


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## Brad Snyder (Aug 31, 2008)

That was probably CP/M from Digital Research, I don't think MS-DOS was released until the early 8''s.


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## Sean McCormack (Aug 31, 2008)

One thing Victoria did highlight was Parallels (or even VM Ware). You can run Mac OS X, XP and Vista comfortably on one machine. 
An iMac would set you back $999, for which you can choose whatever OS you like.
I have a client that likes the look of the iMac and runs only XP on it.


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