# Pulling my hair out with RAW white balance



## navogel (Feb 25, 2014)

So... long time reader, first time poster.

I shoot events 99% of the time but last weekend I took a gig doing some photography for a cake studio.  They needed shots of employees working on cakes.  The lighting was all energy saving overhead fluorescent bulbs and they had two cheapo softbox lights that I also assume were fluorescent, but never actually checked. 

So shooting in RAW, when I imported my photos to lightroom I was noticing obvious fluctuations in color.  Between two different pictures taken seconds apart with the exact same camera settings.

This has never been a problem for me before in hundreds of shoots, although I admit I have never taken 100 pictures of the same scene, or worked in a studio.  The only thing changing was the people, cakes, and shifting the softboxes a bit here and there.

I always shoot auto white balance in camera, set a custom white balance in LR, and then apply it to groups of photos with similar lighting and never had a problem.  My understanding WAS that white balance settings didnt matter when shooting RAW.  Further research this week seems to indicate lightroom reads white balance info and translates it to get its "as shot" number, so auto balance can yield different results.  I was under the impression this would yield different "as shot" numbers for photos if the auto WB shifted during shooting. 

However, two different pictures, taken back to back, same exact iso, exposure, etc, were both showing in LR "as shot" as 4950, and +43, but are obviously different colors.  This didnt happen every time, maybe 1 out of 10 pictures was noticeably cooler even when the same custom WB settings where applied to a group.  

What am I missing here?  Is it possible the lights were giving off different frequencies?  Is LR not reading subtle differences in my RAW file's auto WB data, throwing off certain pictures' WB from the group?  Are WB adjustments in LR somehow based on the RAW data, rather than 5500 always being 5500?  That is, if LR thinks "as shot" is 5500, but it is really say 5300, all subsequent changes in WB will be off by the same amount?

this is such a pain in my neck.


----------



## Mark Sirota (Feb 25, 2014)

Welcome to Lightroom Forums.

Fluorescent lamps flicker, not only in brightness, but also in color. If you're in the United States then you're on 60 Hz AC power, so they flicker 60 times per second. If you set your exposure time to 1/60th (or any multiple, such as 1/30th or 1/15th) then you'll capture full cycles, and will not experience color fluctuations. If your exposure time is shorter then you will.

This is (part of) why photographers hate fluorescent lamps.


----------



## wianb (Feb 25, 2014)

Ahh, shooting under fluorescent lights, a right royal pain in the rear and should be avoided like the plague.


----------



## navogel (Feb 25, 2014)

Oh good.  Im not crazy.  I almost said that the pictures that were "off" seemed a tad lighter too.  Im actually in Korea currently, so I guess they flicker 120 times per second...  and I was shooting 1/200.  There was nothing I could do about the lighting, but I least now I have an explanation for the client.

Thanks!!


----------



## BillGordon (Feb 25, 2014)

Why not use Custom White Balance in that situation? If you have a grey card, set camera to custom, shoot the card and accept the setting.....

Just remember to reset White Balance after shooting.


----------



## Mark Sirota (Feb 25, 2014)

Bill, that won't work in this case. The color of the light is different for each shot.


----------



## clee01l (Feb 25, 2014)

navogel said:


> Oh good.  Im not crazy.  I almost said that the pictures that were "off" seemed a tad lighter too.  Im actually in Korea currently, so I guess they flicker 120 times per second...  and I was shooting 1/200.  There was nothing I could do about the lighting, but I least now I have an explanation for the client.
> 
> Thanks!!


You were shooting RAW.  The WB setting in the camera has no impact on the RAW image, only the JPEG thumbnail.  You need to set the WB in LR for the RAW image. And since the WB colors shift with the fluorescent lighting,  one setting will not work for all of the images in the shoot.  You might try the Auto WB setting in LR and let LR make a best guess of the WB for each image.


----------



## BillGordon (Feb 25, 2014)

Flicker factor...forgot about that... DOH!


----------



## erro (Feb 26, 2014)

What happens if you upload photos to Flickr?  (sorry, couldn't resist...)


----------



## Jimmsp (Feb 26, 2014)

wianb said:


> Ahh, shooting under fluorescent lights, a right royal pain in the rear and should be avoided like the plague.


It is a pain, and often cannot be avoided with some subjects.
I shoot my grandchildren a lot in school activities, and generally under fluorescent lights. As I always shoot raw, I try to find somebody (or something) that is consistent within a group of photos and is wearing a white shirt or grey pants. I generally can find something to set the wb eyedropper on and maintain color consistency within a group of shots. I then may have to re-balance a bit between groups.


----------

