# MAJOR LR Problems (Multiple)



## GadgetRick (May 27, 2015)

SO been a LR user for many years now. For about the past year, I've been having problems with LR corrupting either the catalog or the preview file about once a month. Sometimes worse than others. What I mean by that is, sometimes it actually loses (i.e. DELETES) files.

If I'm lucky, I'll just have LR wig out and no respond. I'll force quit (on a Mac) and have to restart my computer to get LR to restart (otherwise it just won't start). I cannot delete the corrupted catalog or preview file (I have a collection of these in a folder because I cannot delete them). This time, I was editing files and went to go to the next file when it lost previews for some of the files in the folder I had. I had to force-quit and, when I came back in, I got the error about preview file being corrupt and LR would try to fix it on restart. It never does. Moved it to that bad folder I have and restarted the Mac and then LR. When LR came back up, I went back into that folder where the files were missing. Tried to find them via LR but couldn't. Went into the Finder and, as I mentioned, the folder is there but it's empty. At no time did I do ANYTHING which would ask anything to delete/remove files. But they are gone either way.

My workflow is pretty simple. I shoot 5-shot raw brackets. Import them into LR where I do some basic adjustments then stack them together. I then use the Enfuse plugin to blend the exposures. I then edit the resulting files and export as JPEGs. I do this ALL of the time and that's almost all I do with LR.

I'm running the latest version of LR (on CC) on an iMac running 10.9.5. I don't have a bunch of software installed and loaded in the background. This same problem happens about once a month and it's gotten ridiculously frustrating. In fact, I also have problems with Premier Pro corrupting project files from time to time as well. Honestly, if I could find something else which did this easily, I'd drop LR like a hot potato. But I like the ease of cataloging files, etc. I just can't take losing days of work like this. I'm going to have to reshoot both jobs I did yesterday and hope it doesn't piss off the customers. Not to mention I've got to do a day's worth of work for nothing now and I'm crazy busy so I'm not even sure when I'll be able to squeeze them in!

Anyone else seeing things like this? Anyone got any ideas on how I might be able to recover these files? I keep being told LR cannot delete files in the Finder like this. Well, it's now happened to me twice so I ASSURE you it CAN happen.

Thanks in advance for any help.


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## Jim Wilde (May 27, 2015)

To be honest, that sounds more like a system problem than a specific Lightroom issue. However, have you tried resetting the Lightroom preferences file, which is about the only Lightroom-specific thing I can suggest. Instructions for that are here.


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## GadgetRick (May 27, 2015)

Jim Wilde said:


> To be honest, that sounds more like a system problem than a specific Lightroom issue. However, have you tried resetting the Lightroom preferences file, which is about the only Lightroom-specific thing I can suggest. Instructions for that are here.


Thanks. I have reset the preferences file in the past--previous versions of LR--but these strange problems still persist. I'll give it a shot again.

It has gotten terribly-frustrating as it eats a lot of time. This time, however, is even worse since I now must go back and reshoot jobs. I just don't understand how/why these files just disappeared from my hard drive. It may be a system problem but I can't find anything about this happening anywhere online whether caused by LR or the OS. So I'm at a total loss here (literally and figuratively).

I appreciate your help.


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## Jim Wilde (May 27, 2015)

How is your LR system set up, i.e. what drive is used for catalog/previews, ACR cache, image files? You could have a dodgy drive in the mix, I suppose.


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## GadgetRick (May 27, 2015)

Jim Wilde said:


> How is your LR system set up, i.e. what drive is used for catalog/previews, ACR cache, image files? You could have a dodgy drive in the mix, I suppose.


Catalogs and files are on an external drive (same one). Cache is on my main (internal) hard drive.

I had to move my catalogs to the external drive a while back because they took up too much space on my internal drive.


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## Jim Wilde (May 27, 2015)

Do you normally shut down at night, or just sleep the iMac? And what about Lightroom, do you leave it active or shut it down each evening?

Trying to think what I'd do in your situation.....I'd look at the power settings to make sure the hard drive wasn't going to sleep while Lightroom is running but inactive, I'd even be thinking about trying a different hard drive. For sure I'd like to try get the catalog back onto the internal drive, even if that meant aliasing the previews if space is a problem. 

Re-installing the OS would definitely be on the list of things to try, especially as you've also reported problems with Premiere Pro.....it gives off bad vibes.

Just a thought....did you also have these problems before you moved the catalog onto the external drive?


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## clee01l (May 27, 2015)

GadgetRick said:


> Catalogs and files are on an external drive (same one). Cache is on my main (internal) hard drive.
> 
> I had to move my catalogs to the external drive a while back because they took up too much space on my internal drive.


In the OS X Preferences, do you have the checkbox checked that is labeled "Put hard disks to sleep whenever possible"?  It should be left unchecked. 

How much free disk space do you have on the Primary disk drive (not the one with the catalog and previews).   LR creates temporary files in working storage.  it also delays writing updates to the database and I think the same may be true for updating the previews.  Anytime you force quit an app, it may have open files that could be in an unstable state and will get corrupt unless closed properly.

If you can, leave LR running at all times and let the OS sleep when necessary. 

Start the Activity Monitor app and monitor CPU load and Disk usage In the Activity Monitor run the Systems Diagnostics to see it it tells you anything.  Are you running a virus Scanner?  Disable it to see if LR behaves better.


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## GadgetRick (May 27, 2015)

Thanks. All great suggestions. Let me try and answer some of the questions:

-I put the Mac to sleep mosts nights (restarting about once a week or so).
-I keep LR running.
-I have the OS preferences set to NOT put HDs to sleep, however, I know some of the drives I have still go to sleep--can't change the settings on the actual drive that I can see.
-I just ordered another drive as I will need the space soon anyway.
-My main HD is getting full. Trying to clear up space on that, maybe this is the problem? I don't store anything but system and applications on this drive so I'm probably going to have to just get a bigger drive. PITA as it's internal. Was hoping to go with an SSD for speed but that'll be smaller than what I've got internally.
-I have virus software but this problem has been going on well before I installed it.

I'll have to look at the Activity Monitor and see if I can figure something out. If I ever get the time, I'll have to see about doing a clean OS install. Thankfully, business has been good but it leaves little/no time for this type of maintenance. Things should slow down a bit next month though--I do real estate photography.

I really appreciate everyone trying to help!


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## tspear (May 27, 2015)

When you get a new drive, do you format the drive?
The default on most external drives is FAT32 which is not journaled and has minimal recovery options.
When you get a new external drive, consider formatting it either command line or via the DiskUtility app with Mac's HPFS+ (a/k/a Mac OS Extended). This is a journaling file system which should handle potential data corruption issues better. Here is one summary of formatting a drive: http://pondini.org/OSX/DU8.html
Make sure you research the tool some before you use it. Lastly, verify you have the correct disk selected when you format the drive!

The last item to consider, I suspect the external drive you are using has a small internal cache which is supposed to improve performance. In your case, the drive loses power and shuts down before writing the cache to the disk. A simple way to test this theory, is a hassle but works. When done for the night, shutdown Lr and eject the external drive. This forces the drive to sync the cache to the disk.
If this solves the problem, you have a few choices.
1. Eject the disk on a daily basis
2. Learn command line tools to force the system to write to disk (works with most external caches, but not all)
3. Get a new hard disk, preferably one with external power
4. Get a USB or Firewire hub with its own power.

Good luck,

Tim


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## clee01l (May 27, 2015)

Why haven't you updated to 10.10.3?  I think this will help with your system problems.   Running a virus scan on an ope catalog file is a risk of corruption.  Also it is not necessary for the Previews files that are continually changing.  By excluding your LR catalog folder from the virus scan, you run less risk of corruption of these files.  
As for Working storage, I think you need at least 125GB of free space on the Volume named "Macintosh HD"  If LR requests resources and the system does not have them, you may experience system lock ups. 

What are your system specs?  How much RAM and how many CPU cores?  If you are needing to use the Swapfile, this too will eat up working storage.


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## Elizfield (May 27, 2015)

Why do you have to reshoot? Can't you keep the images on the card on your camera until you know you won't need them again?


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## 4hunter (May 27, 2015)

Or having backup


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## GadgetRick (May 28, 2015)

Well, how long, exactly, should I keep my SD cards? A day? A week? A month?

This isn't a backup issue.

In fact, it friggin just happened to me again! Went to export a job. Spinning ball. Force Quit. Have to restart to get it to run. Files gone. Folder there but files gone.


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## clee01l (May 28, 2015)

GadgetRick said:


> Well, how long, exactly, should I keep my SD cards? A day? A week? A month?
> 
> This isn't a backup issue.
> 
> In fact, it friggin just happened to me again! Went to export a job. Spinning ball. Force Quit. Have to restart to get it to run. Files gone. Folder there but files gone.


It probably is a backup issue.  I reformat my camera cards often and when ever I need an empty one.  I do not rely upon the images stored on the card after import to LR.   When I import to LR, I use the "Make a second copy to" option to duplicate the card contents temporarily on a different HDD from my LR imported images.  At that point, I have two copies of the contents of the camera card and I am free to reformat the card.   Time Machine will run every 30 minutes and backup my LR imported images and ALL of my other critical user data (including LR backups of my master catalog.) I also use CrashPlan to backup my critical user data to a third local drive and the cloud.  It no point after I import, do I have less than two complete copies of the images that were recorded on the card. 

LR does not delete cataloged images unless you _explicitly tell it to_ by taking action in the "All Photographs" special collection or folders in the Folder panel. Any action to remove image from the disk using LR will be preceded by a warning and confirmation dialog in LR.  If you choose to use Finder to review any files outside of LR once they have been cataloged, then LR will not be able to track any changes that you make in Finder. 

If you would address these questions #10 perhaps we can help you determine what problems need to be addressed with your OS that are preventing LR from performing as expected.


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## Replytoken (May 28, 2015)

GadgetRick said:


> In fact, I also have problems with Premier Pro corrupting project files from time to time as well. Honestly, if I could find something else which did this easily, I'd drop LR like a hot potato.



I am sorry to hear of your repeated problems with losing files.  But, as other have alluded to, I suspect that you may have a PC/OS problem on your hands as you mentioned a similar problem with Premier Pro.  Unless I am needing to turn an SD card around immediately, my files usually sit on the card until there are at least three copies of my files stored on various drives.  I am not sure what your current backup plan is, but it sounds like it may need to be enhanced until you have a long period of not having issues.

Good luck,

--Ken


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## GadgetRick (May 28, 2015)

Thanks again.

I'm trying to treat the problem here, not the symptoms. So the backup is not the issue here. The issue is LR crashing and files going away. I tend to agree--at this point--I may have a deeper issue. I'm thinking maybe my main hard drive or the system itself since I keep my photos/catalogs on a different drive than my videos/projects and they are both different than where I have the applications.

I have upgraded to Mac OS 10.10.3 (finally). Unfortunately (or fortunately), I'm too busy with shoots to do a full clean install. So I upgraded and have uninstalled/reinstalled LR after a LOT of problems (been working with Adobe to get it working properly). Had permissions issues. My problem is, I don't know what else to do to try and track this down and, in the mean time, I'm shooting other houses and having to get work out. I haven't gotten the work out from yesterday (it was lost this morning although I still have the original files at least) and I'm shooting other houses today, Monday, etc.

It's more of a lack of time for me at this point. And it doesn't seem like an easy track down/fix at this point.

I have been considering getting a new machine--this one is about 2 years old--to gain speed (before all of this started). So this may be the perfect time to do so (although I'm not really ready to spend the money but what can you do...). I've been a Mac guy for over 20 years although I do have PC experience. But, looking at the prices on the 5K iMacs, oof! Considering a PC with fast hardware, etc. but there are so many choices and I don't know enough about PCs to know which is better or how to configure it 100%. My best friend is a CTO at a company and has a ton of experience with this but, he lives 1,000 miles away and has been busy himself.

Basically, I'm in a bad way here. :(


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## Replytoken (May 28, 2015)

I can sympathize with the time crunch.  Do you have any spare machine that you could put into service for just the few jobs at present?  This might bypass the problem for your current work load and possibly buy you some time to either fix the existing machine or purchase a new one.  Alternately, could you pick up a new alternate internal drive and install a system on it for temporary use in your current machine?  This would accomplish the same, and could possibly be done quite quickly as you only need your OS and LR (and Premier Pro?) to be up and minimally running.

Good luck,

--Ken


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## clee01l (May 28, 2015)

GadgetRick said:


> I'm trying to treat the problem here, not the symptoms. So the backup is not the issue here. The issue is LR crashing and files going away. I tend to agree--at this point--I may have a deeper issue....


  LR Crashing and files disappearing are symptoms of a deeper problem.   Some of the problem might be hardware related or more likely user procedures.  You haven't provided us with any information on either.  Until you do we are not going to be able to help you narrow down the source of your LR crashing.   Given the fact that very few LRCC2015 OS X issues have surfaced and that no one besides you are reporting lost images, that pretty much narrows the problem down to something in your system and the procedures that you are using. 

FWIW, I've never needed to do a clean install of the OS in Windows thought that is often recommended to clear the system of crap.  OS X is even less prone to crap build up and less likely to need a clean install. 
One other thing I have not seen mentioned in previous posts?  Is GPU Acceleration disabled?


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## GadgetRick (May 29, 2015)

Replytoken said:


> I can sympathize with the time crunch.  Do you have any spare machine that you could put into service for just the few jobs at present?  This might bypass the problem for your current work load and possibly buy you some time to either fix the existing machine or purchase a new one.  Alternately, could you pick up a new alternate internal drive and install a system on it for temporary use in your current machine?  This would accomplish the same, and could possibly be done quite quickly as you only need your OS and LR (and Premier Pro?) to be up and minimally running.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> --Ken


Unfortunately, my only other machine only has a small (500GB) HD on it. My wife and kids use it.


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## GadgetRick (May 29, 2015)

clee01l said:


> LR Crashing and files disappearing are symptoms of a deeper problem.   Some of the problem might be hardware related or more likely user procedures.  You haven't provided us with any information on either.  Until you do we are not going to be able to help you narrow down the source of your LR crashing.   Given the fact that very few LRCC2015 OS X issues have surfaced and that no one besides you are reporting lost images, that pretty much narrows the problem down to something in your system and the procedures that you are using.
> 
> FWIW, I've never needed to do a clean install of the OS in Windows thought that is often recommended to clear the system of crap.  OS X is even less prone to crap build up and less likely to need a clean install.
> One other thing I have not seen mentioned in previous posts?  Is GPU Acceleration disabled?


I apologize. Every time I want to post the relevant info about my system something else happens. :(

Anyway, here's info about my system:

iMac 27"
2.7 GHz i5
12 GB of RAM (I know, need to upgrade)
Updated to 10.10.3 earlier today.

If it were my procedures, it would have been happening much more. I've been doing it this way for about 4 years now. 

I'm really beginning to believe it's system-related but not sure exactly what. Went through a bunch of things today. Spent about 2 hours online with Adobe because I had uninstalled LR and was going to reinstall it after upgrading the OS but ran into permissions problems. Then ran into other problems. Finally got it to run and it crashed again (although no loss of files). Seems to be running again but I'm skeptical about whether it's ok.

I'm really not even sure where to start to troubleshoot the problem. I did schedule a time to bring the CPU into the Apple Store. I figure they can test the hardware out at least. Unfortunately, they can't get to it until Sunday.

Oh, as far as GPU acceleration, I don't know. I've never messed with any settings related to that...I'd have to figure out where to find it.

Thanks again.


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## Adrian Malloch (May 31, 2015)

I went through a very similar nightmare over March and April. I was on Adobe chat support every night for over a week, with my 'problem' getting escalated to the next level of technical support. Ultimately, despite heroic (and oft repeated) efforts on their part, the licensing problems, and the LR corruption problems remained.
So I formatted my boot drive (with my LR catalogues) and did a clean install of Yosemite, then migrated apps but not my user account. Then, from my backup, I restored my LR and Photoshop settings files (not the preferences) to the new install. 
Hallelujah! It worked. I'm not saying that this is going to fix your dramas but it could well be an appropriate course of action.
Good luck. (And back up everything, including a bootable clone – I used Carbon Copy Cloner; excellent app with prompt and personalised support from the app designer).
Adrian


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## GadgetRick (May 31, 2015)

Kiwi Picbod said:


> I went through a very similar nightmare over March and April. I was on Adobe chat support every night for over a week, with my 'problem' getting escalated to the next level of technical support. Ultimately, despite heroic (and oft repeated) efforts on their part, the licensing problems, and the LR corruption problems remained.
> So I formatted my boot drive (with my LR catalogues) and did a clean install of Yosemite, then migrated apps but not my user account. Then, from my backup, I restored my LR and Photoshop settings files (not the preferences) to the new install.
> Hallelujah! It worked. I'm not saying that this is going to fix your dramas but it could well be an appropriate course of action.
> Good luck. (And back up everything, including a bootable clone – I used Carbon Copy Cloner; excellent app with prompt and personalised support from the app designer).
> Adrian


Hmm, at least I've found someone else who's experienced the same problem(s).

I'm thinking it's the drive the photos were on. I don't have time to type out what all I've been through just yet but will take the time so others may learn something or someone may see something I did.


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## Adrian Malloch (Jun 1, 2015)

I didn't list all the problems I was having either, but dying drives was one of them. I have two internal SSDs on my MacBook Pro and they were both reporting errors which could not be repaired with Disk Utility or even with Disk Warrior (replace directory). Bad sector reports were happening every hour by the time I bit the bullet and did the format, clean install, new user account and restore. 
It is a loathsome and somewhat nerve-wracking task but even if it hadn't worked, it would have eliminated those factors out of the trouble-shooting equation.
All the best, let us know how it all works out.


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## GadgetRick (Jun 3, 2015)

So i'm beginning to believe it's my external drive(s). They are the Seagate external drives, which seemingly are known to have issues. In fact, I had to go through multiple drives from Seagate to get one that worked then the other one died within about 4 months and had to be replaced. I've now got 2 WD 5TB drives I'm using and will see if the issues go away.

Hoping this solves the issue.


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