# Lightroom 5 + Lightroom CC (2015.7) Metadata Write Errors



## SaraW (Oct 3, 2016)

Hello all, 
Having constant issues with both Mac Lightroom 5 and Lightroom CC (2015.7) being unable to write metadata to sidecar XMP for my RAW files. I will sync my files, then Command-S to make sure all changes have been saved, before exporting. 

Preferences are set to “Automatically write changes into XMP”. Files are on a networked server. Permissions on folders are always correct (Read and Write), however when Lightroom writes XMP, I get the following error message, with random files, but not all: “Could not write metadata. Unknown file I/O error.”  If I sync the metadata (on the same files) using Bridge (using copy and paste), I get no errors. I don’t want to use Bridge, but that does show me the problem is linked to LR.

Was previously using Lightroom 5, and read that the error was a common LR5 issue, so initially went back to Lightroom 4. LR4 worked! Did not have the issue using LR4, but realized to my horror, after exporting multiple files, that all the edits I made in LR5 were incompatible with LR4 (for example, clone and heal tools were completely off their marks). Aargh! My fault for not checking backward compatibility. So, finally gave in to the cloud subscription thing (Lightroom CC (2015.7). But, issue is no better. Any suggestions greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Sara


----------



## tspear (Oct 4, 2016)

There are really only a few reasons to write meta-data back to the image file. Exporting is not one of the reasons.
All edits are stored in the catalog, so if you then proceed to export the image from within Lr, if will apply all meta-data and changes.
There are only really two reasons to write meta-data back to the original file:

Because you are using multiple applications which exchange data via this method, e.g. Bridge.
Because you are paranoid and want as many possible recovery options as possible in case of catalog corruption or computer failure. (I am in this camp).
So as long as you are doing everything in Lr, and have a solid backup process. There is no reason to write meta-data back to the original file.

In terms of the write issue; I would start with the following items:

Backup everything first

Have the NAS run a hardware integrity check
Update the NAS software
Update the Mac and verify the latest drivers for the NAS have been installed (assuming teh NAS uses a proprietary system).
Verify you have enough space on the internal disk, and the correct permissions. You may see this error reporting the wrong location, if there is not enough temp space for example you have the same error message.

Get a desk testing software and pound the NAS


----------



## SaraW (Oct 4, 2016)

Hi tspear, Thank you for taking time to respond - I appreciate it! The reason I want to be sure my XMPs have all data needed (instead of relying on the catalog to provide my info) is that the RAW + XMP files will likely 1) moved and/or shared with other computers which may do the exporting instead, and 2) I do not want to have to hold onto Catalogs forever. I am working with many thousands of images, so once a bunch is done, I create a new catalog, or remove the ones that have processed.

isn’t this the point of having XMP files anyway? (So that you have an externalized copy of your settings for later use).

No idea what NAS is??

Thanks again!
Sara


----------



## rob211 (Oct 4, 2016)

"NAS" is networked attached storage. Which might be what you have. OTOH, maybe you are connecting to a "real" computer acting as a server. Somewhat different.

What filesystem are you using on the server? sometimes things like naming restrictions can cause problems. Latency too; if the server isn't accessible Lr will barf.


----------



## Deleted member 39308 (Oct 4, 2016)

SaraW said:


> Preferences are set to “Automatically write changes into XMP”. Files are on a networked server.



Hi

Automatically write changes into XMP will mean each time you change something like move a slider to the left then back again would cause two writes to the XMP and another two writes to the Lightroom catalogue file. This will put a load on the disk I/O and as you are writing to a networked server then all these XMP writes need to go over the network, received by the server and committed to disk. Lots of opportunity for things to time out.

I use XMP files but have Automatically write changes into XMP turned off. I have a smart filter set to identify files that have been changed and before I finish for the session in Lightroom I select these photos and sync to disk. Maybe this approach would fit your workflow?


----------



## clee01l (Oct 4, 2016)

Ad Astra said:


> ...I use XMP files but have Automatically write changes into XMP turned off. I have a smart filter set to identify files that have been changed and before I finish for the session in Lightroom I select these photos and sync to disk. Maybe this approach would fit your workflow?


Put me in the camp that thinks creating redundant XMP files is a waste of computer resources and workflow time.   However, if you insist on creating unnecessary XMPs, your Smart Collection is an excellent solution.


----------



## tspear (Oct 4, 2016)

NAS = Network attached Storage. e.g. Network File Server.

I am fairly sure, XMP does not mean you capture all edits. I do not recall what is in the subset though.

If I had to guess, I would say there is a buffer/cache issue with the file server. In that it cannot handle the multiple writes or the driver software on the local machine cannot handle it.
The best offhand solution I have would be queue up some of the writes, such turn off auto-write meta-data and then do it at a later date manually.


----------



## SaraW (Oct 4, 2016)

rob211 said:


> "NAS" is networked attached storage. Which might be what you have. OTOH, maybe you are connecting to a "real" computer acting as a server. Somewhat different.
> 
> What filesystem are you using on the server? sometimes things like naming restrictions can cause problems. Latency too; if the server isn't accessible Lr will barf.



Hi rob211, We have a 2.6 GHz i7 Mac Mini Server running OSX 10.10.5 (Server 5.0.15). I connect via AFP (Apple File [Protocol).  All files typically have names such as: 121212-VisitCr-Sunset-10015.CR2


----------



## SaraW (Oct 4, 2016)

tspear said:


> NAS = Network attached Storage. e.g. Network File Server.
> 
> I am fairly sure, XMP does not mean you capture all edits. I do not recall what is in the subset though.
> 
> ...



Hi tspear, That makes sense, however I have had the same error when only editing one file.


----------



## SaraW (Oct 4, 2016)

clee01l said:


> Put me in the camp that thinks creating redundant XMP files is a waste of computer resources and workflow time.   However, if you insist on creating unnecessary XMPs, your Smart Collection is an excellent solution.


Hi clee01l, how are Smart Collections different than regular collections? Would this allow me to share the RAW files or catalogs with other computers for purposes of exporting?


----------



## SaraW (Oct 4, 2016)

Ad Astra said:


> Hi
> 
> Automatically write changes into XMP will mean each time you change something like move a slider to the left then back again would cause two writes to the XMP and another two writes to the Lightroom catalogue file. This will put a load on the disk I/O and as you are writing to a networked server then all these XMP writes need to go over the network, received by the server and committed to disk. Lots of opportunity for things to time out.
> 
> I use XMP files but have Automatically write changes into XMP turned off. I have a smart filter set to identify files that have been changed and before I finish for the session in Lightroom I select these photos and sync to disk. Maybe this approach would fit your workflow?


This shows I clearly do not understand the latest versions of Lightroom. Used to be you had a preference whether or not to save into sidecar files. I no longer can find that pref. The only way I see now to save XMP is to have the "Automatically write changes into XMP" pref checked. Aargh. What am I missing here? Thanks all, for your help!


----------



## Jim Wilde (Oct 5, 2016)

SaraW said:


> Used to be you had a preference whether or not to save into sidecar files. I no longer can find that pref. The only way I see now to save XMP is to have the "Automatically write changes into XMP" pref checked.



"Automatically write changes into XMP" has always been the only catalog setting available.


----------



## Deleted member 39308 (Oct 5, 2016)

SaraW said:


> Hi clee01l, how are Smart Collections different than regular collections? Would this allow me to share the RAW files or catalogs with other computers for purposes of exporting?



Smart Collections are dynamic in that they display photos based on a set of criteria. E.g. one star photos would list those files rated with one star, change the rating of a photo in this smart collection to two stars would mean it would no longer be displayed in the one star collection but in would then appear in the two star smart collection.

I use the following workflow to save my edits to XMP.








I have four XMP smart collections as above, 13 are up to date, 23 need saving from Lightroom to disk and two have been changed outside of Lightroom so, for these two, I would need to decide which is the correct version; typically it is the one on disk as I have edited it in another application so I would then read from disk the XMPs back into Lightroom.

The smart filters in turn look like this:



 

 

 




The Collection item refers to John's smart collection workflow concept to which I added the XMP status to. If you do not use this then simply do not add the collection contains criteria and it will apply to your whole catalogue. Maybe add a date criteria instead to keep the quantity relevant to recent edits.

See Workflow smart collections – John Beardsworth

My workflow would be to edit the Photos in Lightroom. Then when I have finished the editing session go to the Smart Collection Metadata to Save, select all the Photos, right mouse click, metadata > save metadata to file.

Then all XMP files are up to date. You can then share the photo and XMP files safe in the knowledge that they are up to date.


----------



## SaraW (Oct 14, 2016)

Ad Astra said:


> Smart Collections are dynamic in that they display photos based on a set of criteria. E.g. one star photos would list those files rated with one star, change the rating of a photo in this smart collection to two stars would mean it would no longer be displayed in the one star collection but in would then appear in the two star smart collection.
> 
> I use the following workflow to save my edits to XMP.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU, Ad Astra, for taking time to explain this to me!!  Very much appreciate it!  Sara


----------



## Rick_B (May 15, 2017)

Did anybody actually find a solution to this issue? I'm in almost the exact same situation as Sara - files stored on RAID disks attached to a Mac mini server, and I have a batch of 25 files that won't let me Write Metadata to Files. I want to do this because I'm in the process of (finally) sorting my keepers from the vast bulk of my photos since 2003, and creating a new Archive catalog by exporting a year at a time (with negative files), then deleting the files from the existing (non-Archive) catalog. The "picks" are flagged, but that isn't showing up on the Mac mini because I can't export the metadata. It's all well and good to say "you should only have to do that under X circumstances", but there's still clearly a bug here.


----------



## Victoria Bampton (May 18, 2017)

Rick_B said:


> The "picks" are flagged, but that isn't showing up on the Mac mini because I can't export the metadata



Flags don't write to XMP, they're contained in the catalog only (and in any exported catalogs, of course). Perhaps that's the cause of the problem you're seeing?


----------



## Rick_B (May 18, 2017)

Victoria Bampton said:


> Flags don't write to XMP, they're contained in the catalog only (and in any exported catalogs, of course). Perhaps that's the cause of the problem you're seeing?



Thanks LRQ  That would explain that particular bit not coming across, but it doesn't explain the ongoing "I/O error" issue. Also, it's not terribly helpful that flags aren't in XMP, but that's another issue, and I guess resolved easily enough by rating or coloring the flagged shots.

Thanks!


----------



## Victoria Bampton (May 19, 2017)

I've had numerous I/O errors in the past too. I think the NAS just can't keep up with the speed of updates. Often they are magically fixed a day or so later. You could report it as a bug at Official Feature Request/Bug Report Forum

I'm still not sure I actually understand why you need XMP for the workflow you're describing though?


----------



## Rick_B (May 19, 2017)

Victoria Bampton said:


> I've had numerous I/O errors in the past too. I think the NAS just can't keep up with the speed of updates. Often they are magically fixed a day or so later. You could report it as a bug at Official Feature Request/Bug Report Forum
> 
> I'm still not sure I actually understand why you need XMP for the workflow you're describing though?



I'm working through everything from when I went digital in late 2003, separating out the keepers (be they technical, subject, or significance) from the vast bulk of "the rest". I'm doing this by flagging on my laptop (usually working with Smart Previews), but then I need a way to export the non-keepers to gradually build an Archive catalog. I do this by selecting all un-flagged or rejected shots, exporting as catalog, then deleting from the main catalog after checking that everything looks good with the export. The Export as Catalog step goes much, much faster if done locally on the server, rather than through LR on the laptop, so I'm running LR on the server for this purpose, and it needs a way to know which shots I've flagged without constantly copying the catalog from the laptop. Since flags don't come across in XMP, I guess I'll use either star rating or color as well.


----------



## Victoria Bampton (May 22, 2017)

Fair enough, as long as you have a workflow that's working for you. Just bear in mind there's other stuff not included in XMP, including collection membership, virtual copies, Develop History states, etc. too.


----------



## Rick_B (May 22, 2017)

Victoria Bampton said:


> Fair enough, as long as you have a workflow that's working for you. Just bear in mind there's other stuff not included in XMP, including collection membership, virtual copies, Develop History states, etc. too.


Fortunately, I don't need anything beyond "these stay, these go" for this particular use, but good to know for the future - thanks!


----------

