# Need Advice on File / Folder Naming and Organization



## HelloWIll (May 14, 2018)

We have a small video team that shoots mainly b-roll footage for our internal companies to use.  We are in the final stages of solidifying a timelapse / hyperlapse workflow, and I need some feedback from the pros who've been there, done that.  


When you offload your images, where do you save them?  What do you name the folder?
If you shoot multiple sequences on the same card, at what point do you split them?
Do you rename your files?  Do you do it before or after processing with LRTimelapse?
What is your file naming convention?
When you export a high-quality master prores, do you find yourself going back to edit the RAW images?
Do you export from LRTimelapse or use something like Adobe After Effects?
I'm thinking of naming based on subject matter, with an \Image Sequence\RAW Original\Card 01, 02, etc and \Image Sequence\Processed Sequence\Sequence 1\ etc subfolders.

Pardon my noobish questions, but I'm new to time lapse and want to make sure we are doing things in a smart way so we don't waste a lot of time and energy doing things that don't matter.

If you could go back in time and change anything about your workflow, what would it be? 

Are there any other tools (free or paid) that make life easier?

How bad will spaces in the file name mess up lightroom?


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## clee01l (May 14, 2018)

I don't do video but I can offer some advice about organization.   Folders and file names are terrible way to organize images.  The collection section is the place to organize images.   Keywords are the organizing tools of LR.  These take the place of the arcane folder and file names and can be assign on import or immediately after import.  Because image files need to be stored in the filesystem, one of the date named folders schemes are more that adequate for this purpose. 
Searching using keyword phrases doe discourage spaces in keywords as the space separator is used by the search engine to separate search term (and treated as an "OR" connector.).


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## BarrySchwartz (May 14, 2018)

I respectfully disagree with the previous poster regarding folder and file-name organization, since that's how my entire collection is arranged, and I'm able to find things very quickly without ever doing a search, even with the same image in multiple collections.  I do live by collections, however, a great and fabulous tool.  

However I want to comment on the question of spaces in file names: never a good idea, in or out of LR.  While most of the time both Macs and PCs can read a file name with a space,  it's by no means a certainty, and can lead to lost files.  The standard wisdom of everyone I've ever encountered who knows more than I do is that file names should have no more than 31 characters, including the "dot" and the file-type.  Safest also is only use letters, numbers, dashes, and underscores, and only ever one "dot", the one before the the file-type.   This was something that was set up early in the world of digital by Microsoft, and while you can sometimes get away with a file being named in a different way, you never know when that will be a problem - if not for you, then for someone you send that file to.


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## PhilBurton (May 15, 2018)

BarrySchwartz said:


> I respectfully disagree with the previous poster regarding folder and file-name organization, since that's how my entire collection is arranged, and I'm able to find things very quickly without ever doing a search, even with the same image in multiple collections.  I do live by collections, however, a great and fabulous tool.
> 
> However I want to comment on the question of spaces in file names: never a good idea, in or out of LR.  While most of the time both Macs and PCs can read a file name with a space,  it's by no means a certainty, and can lead to lost files.  The standard wisdom of everyone I've ever encountered who knows more than I do is that file names should have no more than 31 characters, including the "dot" and the file-type.  Safest also is only use letters, numbers, dashes, and underscores, and only ever one "dot", the one before the the file-type.   This was something that was set up early in the world of digital by Microsoft, and while you can sometimes get away with a file being named in a different way, you never know when that will be a problem - if not for you, then for someone you send that file to.


Barry,

As long as you organize your FOLDERS according to a single criterion, it's OK to use subject-based folder names.  Wedding photographers might be an example, but even here, that organization could break down.  What if the wedding photographer wants to do a search and select between daytime and evening weddings, local weddings vs. destination weddings, by age range of the bride and groom, indoor or outdoor, civil vs. religious (and which religions?), etc.  I've seen examples of really complex, long and hard-to-read folder names as a result.  Clee is right.


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## John Little (May 15, 2018)

Phil Burton says "Clee is right".

For what it's worth, I organize my photos according to location (e.g. Yosemite) or activity (e.g. Hikes, Trips) and then by date. It works for me. I don't think there is any "right" and "wrong" in this case; as we used to say, different strokes for different folks.


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## BarrySchwartz (May 15, 2018)

About those folders...Inside my folders are often other folders with related names, so for instance, since my clients periodically lose copies of the JPGs I send them, I have them at the ready in a folder with the same name as the parent folder, only it says JPG rather than DNG or TIF.   

Within a folder, if I want to differentiate, for instance, daytime from nighttime, in the example used, you can simply rename the photos "day" and "night", making it really easy to find the ones you're looking for.  I am a big believer in natural language for finding this as a first attempt.  Keywords , of course, come in handy when that does not work.


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## clee01l (May 15, 2018)

BarrySchwartz said:


> About those folders...Inside my folders are often other folders with related names, so for instance, since my clients periodically lose copies of the JPGs I send them, I have them at the ready in a folder with the same name as the parent folder, only it says JPG rather than DNG or TIF.
> 
> Within a folder, if I want to differentiate, for instance, daytime from nighttime, in the example used, you can simply rename the photos "day" and "night", making it really easy to find the ones you're looking for. I am a big believer in natural language for finding this as a first attempt. Keywords , of course, come in handy when that does not work.


OK you have a folder for "Family". And a Sub folder for "John Doe"  Another sub folder for "Mary Doe".  Where do you put the photo of Mary and John and their Three Kids?    And now include the photos of the same family take on the vacation to Yosemite in 2010 and again in 2017.  And also on the vacation to England and Paris.    Now I ask you to find for me all of the photos that contain John Doe.   I can do the with one simple keyword query.  JPG, DNG and TIF are file types and it is a waste of organization time to group into folders by file type when you can find every DNG with a simple filter and a particular photo by using a simple query.   The purpose of using a data image manage is to streamline your workflow.  Any time you are doing a folder scan to find one particular photo you are not using LR at its most efficient.   Any time you need to look in more than one folder you are wasting workflow time that could be better spent on more important tasks.

"clients periodically lose copies of the JPGs I send them".  This is why we have Publish Services.  You do not tie up resources with files that may never be needed again.   With a publish service, you can generate a new derivative from the *one* original file that you can more easily manage.


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## Gnits (May 15, 2018)

Folders based on subjects is a recipe for disaster, but folders stored by project in chronological sequence by year make a lot of sense. It does not limit your options for collections or keywords and you have a logical file and folder structure.  No-one is going to win the argument for a folder v collection workflow. They both have pros and cons. 
Here is a section of my 2018 folder structure.




For me,  managing collections is too labour intensive, for others.... not so. I also used to spend too much time keywording and was always behind the curve, so now I do not bother, as my project based structure allows me find images with no effort.

I do see benefits for published services, but again they do not work for me...as I often use the same base image to create multiple variations (ie mono, colour, portrait, landscape, web, print, etc..) and find publishing just does not work for me. Also, as Lr does not let me 'lock' an image, I do not want a pile of images re-published because I have made a mistake with my editing.


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## mcasan (May 15, 2018)

I have Lr import into folders that are based on shoot date.   The import process also renames my images using the camera body serial number followed by a sequence number.   The renaming is because I shoot with bodies of the same model and want to minimize the chance of a duplicated file name on the same shoot date.  The import process also uses a Develop preset that select the DCP, which is not an Adobe one, and applies some basic edits such as the new Auto tone.   When I open the files individually I can decide if Auto did not did not give a good starting point for that particular image.


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## clee01l (May 15, 2018)

Gnits said:


> Folders based on subjects is a recipe for disaster, but folders stored by project in chronological sequence by year


You can also on import create a collection using this same folder naming  logic and not be constrained by the file system limitations.  For me, I might have several projects on the same import card and while I can import all of them at once, and then separate into collections (or folders if you insist), the difficulty of Importing into one project folder at a time is resolved.


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## Gnits (May 15, 2018)

How do you separate different projects on the same card at import stage.  I find the inability to select from the card based on date range and file type to be a major Lr weakness.


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## KeithS (May 15, 2018)

I set mine up by camera brand name, then with capture dated folders inside.  I have an "Inactive" folder where I use mostly names for folders as they are primarily scanned images.


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## mcasan (May 15, 2018)

The only logical sorting in Lr is Collections and Collection Sets.   There are no Project, Albums, or other logical containers such as was in Aperture or now in Photos.   Remember that Lr only uses a referenced library, not a managed one.   If you want a modern editing package that does do a managed library, look at Capture One Pro.  It can be set up for using Sessions, managed library, referenced library....or combo.


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## clee01l (May 15, 2018)

Gnits said:


> How do you separate different projects on the same card at import stage.  I find the inability to select from the card based on date range and file type to be a major Lr weakness.


I find this type of organization easier AFTER import.. After import I have available all of the metadata  and the Data Asset Management tools to quickly "slices and dice" the image inventory


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## Gnits (May 15, 2018)

clee01l said:


> I find this type of organization easier AFTER import.. After import I have available all of the metadata  and the Data Asset Management tools to quickly "slices and dice" the image inventory


Understood.


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## Conrad Chavez (May 15, 2018)

I do time lapses with Lightroom, processed using LRTimelapse which I highly recommend. A lot of the advice in the thread so far is for a normal stills and video workflow, but not time lapses. I think time lapse work has special considerations that make it necessary to deviate from the "organize only with metadata" mantra that I otherwise agree with. When time lapse sequences are included, that is one of the few times I use named folders, to more easily separate those images from the rest. I think it is very important to:

Always keep the frames of each time lapse sequence together.
Always keep frames in time lapse sequences separate from non-time-lapse images and videos.
To me, this means using clearly named folders.

What is really annoying is having 5000 time lapse images showing up in the main part of the catalog  when I just want to scroll through normal stills in the catalog, so maybe I need to move all time lapse sequence folders under their own top level branch of the folder tree.


HelloWIll said:


> When you offload your images, where do you save them?  What do you name the folder?
> If you shoot multiple sequences on the same card, at what point do you split them?
> What is your file naming convention?


I have one import preset I use for most images and videos, which puts them in date folders. But I have a separate preset for time lapses. If importing a time lapse shot on 2018-05-14, I will have my time lapse preset put images into a subfolder with the time lapse name, and it also renames all the images with a "-TL" at the end so that I know they're part of a time lapse sequence.

On import, all images are renamed to "YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS Original Filename" to ensure each frame is in order with an absolutely unique filename. They are saved to the same drive as my photos, because there's plenty of room. But if you're doing this every day, you can have a Lightroom import preset put time lapse sequences on their own separate drive; Lightroom has no problem tracking images across multiple drives.

If I shot more than one sequence in one day, those frames must never intermix with other sequences, so they each get their own custom-named subfolder. For example, one subfolder within a date folder would be "Sunset time lapse", another would be "Dock time lapse", and a third subfolder might be "Dock time lapse 2".

In theory, metadata or (LR-only) stacks can keep time lapse sequences separated, but in practice, this is the important thing: Metadata solutions are largely Lightroom-only. If you want to be able to recognize a time lapse sequence when browsing from other applications, such as LRTimelapse or Adobe Bridge, or some video editor, you must use clearly named folders. For example,  LRTimelapse does not see LR stacks or collections or (most) metadata; its primary way of accessing Lightroom images is through the folder structure. So separating time lapse sequences in the file system makes them the most easily accessible by LRTimelapse and other software.

If using LRTimelapse, you do need a naming convention for your subfolders that can easily distinguish:

Raw stills shot for the sequence
Intermediate corrected sequence of stills exported by LRTimelapse to prepare for rendering video
Rendered video of the sequence



HelloWIll said:


> When you export a high-quality master prores, do you find yourself going back to edit the RAW images?
> Do you export from LRTimelapse or use something like Adobe After Effects?
> How bad will spaces in the file name mess up lightroom?


My workflow is use LRTimelapse to manage all adjustment transitions across the raw file sequence, and then export to a video file. Rendered video files are brought into Premiere Pro for editing, grading, and final export. Whether I go all the way back to the raw files depends on what it is I want to tweak. If it's a minor grading change then it can just be done in Premiere. But if it's a basic problem with color balance, noise, or highlight/shadow detail, I will go back to Lightroom. I only go to After Effects if the video needs something Premiere can't already do.

Spaces in filenames won't mess up Lightroom, I use spaces all the time. Since you are sending finished files to internal companies who might be on various computer systems which may not be so space-friendly, you probably should replace spaces with hyphens or underscores in the files you send to them.


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## clee01l (May 16, 2018)

Conrad Chavez said:


> I do time lapses with Lightroom, processed using LRTimelapse which I highly recommend


.  This post is probably the most beneficial to the OP.  Thanks for cutting through the pissing contest to post something relevant.


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