# Lightroom is changing every date!



## jjlad (May 24, 2019)

Hi there,
I am revisiting older images stored on my USB drives and batch editing them to add keywords and ratings.
I've done several years worth already and just realized that no matter which view I use now, Lightroom is displaying the metadata date instead of the photo's original date taken. This is happening on every image I touch!! Even worse ...it appears to be happening even on images I have only looked at today without rating or keywording. All I've done is click on them in LR!!
Can anyone explain what is going on and how I can fix the thousands of photos now affected?
Thanks,


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## Califdan (May 24, 2019)

in the Metadata panel, using the "EXIF & IPTC" filter, is the "Date Time Original" date correct or did it get changed to be the same as the "Metadata Date"?

Also, when you say "Batch Editing" are you selecting multiple images in the grid or filmstrip and then applying changes or are you using the "Sync Metadata" button or are you using the painter (spray can icon on the tool bar)?


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## jjlad (May 25, 2019)

Using the EXIF & IPTC filter there is no date and time of original now.
I was changing ratings and keywording by selecting multiple images in the grid or film strip with Sync Metadata selected. A big issue appears to be with photos that were exported. Normally I don't export the metadata if I'm sending to a client. On all of those that I imported back into the catalog during the export process, the capture date was lost and only the metadata date remains ...as the date I did that or if I opened it today ...today's date. I got Adobe on the phone and was told that on those, because the metadata wasn't exported there will be no original date and time and only the date and time exported will be there and that will change whenever I open the photo.
I have never run into this before. Normally if I sort by capture time all the photos are in order ...whether they are originals, copies, exported and 'added to catalog' images, etc. Adobe says the setting in preferences for "Automatically write changes into XMP" needs to be turned off in order to prevent the capture date changing even when I just open a photo. They said that was an 'improvement" made in some recent update. To me an improvement that blows away your  capture date and replaces it with the most recent date and time the metadata was changed ....is totally incomprensible. I'd never want to do that and the only time I edit capture times is to sync photos from multiple cameras, or sort out photos taken in different time zones. Why LR couldn't forever retain the original capture date is beyond me. Now I have a few thousand photos opened, keyworded or not, rated or not, and moved on to the next one, and they now all display today's date and the time I did that. This is so frustrating. I can't even revert to an earlier catalog because LR has changed the file on my drive.
No idea what to do now!


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## Califdan (May 25, 2019)

Very frustrating, indeed.  

I can see what Adobe was saying (I think) which may be a little different than your interpretation of what they said.  As I read your statement, when you export the image and select in the export parameters screen to exclude metadata from being included in the exported files, I can see the logic of how then the original capture date would be missing, as that too is metadata.  Then when that image is re-imported back into LR the Original capture date would not be present so LR would need to pick a different date to use.  I would have thought they'd use "import date" but according to your post they instead picked "metadata date" (ie the date the image was most recently changed.  It's a mystery why this date would change just by viewing the image though.  



> I was changing ratings and keywording by selecting multiple images in the grid or film strip with Sync Metadata selected


I don't follow this.  In the Library Module the "Sync Metadata" icon at the bottom of the right panel group is a button, not a selection or toggle.  In other words it is not something you can turn on or off.  Rather you press the button to sync selected fields from the current Active image to the other selected images.  So, not clear what you mean by "...with Sync Metadata selected".    But that is probably not a relevant point as long as you are not pressing that button.  However, if you are pressing that button,  in the "what fields to sync" dialog box that pops up, scroll down to the IPTC image block and look at the "Date Created" field.  Fields in this dialog box are populated with content from the currently Active (most selected) image.  If it is blank and the box at the right end is checked, then that blank value will be copied from the Active image to the other selected images.  Once that happens, LR must pick a different field to use as the image date for sorting and showing as in grid cells or Loupe view Information blocks,  and it may very well select the "Metadata" date or a hidden "Last viewed date".  



> Adobe says the setting in preferences for "Automatically write changes into XMP" needs to be turned off in order to prevent the capture date changing even when I just open a photo


I have no idea what they are talking about and I suspect this is not correct.  I don't see writing or not writing XMP would in any way affect a date changing when one views an image (I assume that's what you mean when you say "Open".   It would be interesting get some clarification on this from Adobe.  Was this a chat session that you have transcript of and can share?

Do you have backups of these image files (or XMP files depending on image file type) from before the dates got wiped?  Perhaps from Time machine or your backup utility?    If so,  you can try restoring those image files.  This will cause LR to show the "mismatched metadata" icon on the images in the grid (assuming you have that option turned on in your preferences).  then you can use the "read metadata from files" tool in LR to copy metadata from the image file back into the catalog.   I suspect that the capture date/time would come back along with whatever other metadata is in the image file (or XMP) but is different in the LR catalog.   This may negate keyword or other metadata changes you had made since the time of those backups but if those changes are minor it may turn out to be a decent option.  Try it on only a few images first to see how it works.

One more thing,  I'm not 100% clear on what this setting does, but check the Metadata tab in Catalog Settings (preferences) and see if the "Write Date or Time changes into proprietary raw files" is checked or not.  I think this only applies to RAW files but as it does deal with Date/time values may be involved.

Hope some of my rambling helps.

Dan


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## jjlad (May 25, 2019)

Thanks Dan.
One thing the Adobe rep underscored is that if that "write data" thing is turned on, just opening the image would result in a date change. I think he meant that would happen if there was no "date taken" on the image ...so images exported without metadata and with the "add to catalog" option checked would end up in the catalog with the date they were exported (and simultaneously imported) and that date will change every time the photo is opened! 
To me that defeats any reason to add them to the catalog and I think the program should display a  a warning popup when that could happen.
For now that's my rambling on it. I now export to a subfolder within the original folder, but it looks like back when I was doing these I just had them go into the original folder.  
I'll do some further checking and reply as I learn more or become further confused.


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## Victoria Bampton (May 25, 2019)

jjlad said:


> I was changing ratings and keywording by selecting multiple images in the grid or film strip with Sync Metadata selected.


Which of the metadata was checked when you were syncing? It sounds like the capture date was blank but checked, thereby clearing the date.

Edit - ooooops, I'm repeating what Dan already said. Nice to know we're on the same wavelength!

Why don't we help you restore a catalog backup JJ, which will still have the capture dates from before you removed them.


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## jjlad (May 25, 2019)

Thanks Dan and Victoria. On looking back closer at what I did, I'm pretty sure this is the method I used

For keywording I selected one image then shift clicked to the last one I wanted the same keywords for and added the keywords common to that 'shoot'. I did not click "Sync Metadata or Sync Settings. I honestly have never used either of those two since any syncing I do is normally in the Develop Module.

For ratings I did some in the Library Module and some in Develop Module where I viewed each image. Adobe said that triggered the Metadata date to change on each one because "Automatically write changes into XMP" was checked in the Metadata panel of the Catalog Settings. I for sure didn't enable that. I've had a series of Adobe techs on my system un-tweaking what the prior tech did and making new changes themselves. I can only assume one of them turned that option on. It blows me away that there is no option anywhere to maintain the original capture time unless it is deliberately over written using Metadata/Edit Capture Time. Worse yet ...for Lightroom to adopt the latest Metadata change date (even triggered by simply opening the image) is a diabolical programming issue. So much for "non destructive". I think LR should always maintain the original capture date and time and that the Export dialog should have a separate selection to allow its retention ...like a checkbox to Retain Original Capture Date and Time regardless of which option is chosen from the drop down. I see that if I choose to include Copyright & Contact Info only ...there are no options available below that so if I wanted to keep ratings or keywords I can't with that option checked.

I also saw yesterday that the selection of what Metadata to include changed as I scrolled my mouse to move down the export dialog. I was too close too close to that box and didn't even realize it until I moved back up and noticed the change. Talk about having to be careful! I may have a mixed bag of exports due to that.

If I restore a prior catalog I will lose my edits, ratings and keywords and have to spend many hours re-doing all that.
I have to visit every year/month/day/shoot now from 2007 to 2015 because it looks that entire time frame is affected. 
I think part of the issue is that when rating I was doing it at the Year level eg. 2010 so all the photos in that year were visible and I was spending about a second on each to open, rate and move to the next one. That meant photos that were exported and simultaneously added to the catalog even if in another folder ...would appear and be opened, and since they had no Capture Date ...LR would adopt the date and time I looked at them.

To me, for Lightroom to now display that as the capture date and time is absolutely ridiculous. No idea what they were thinking when that 'improvement' was hatched.

I also note that from within Lightroom, I had moved many years of photos from one an internal drive to an external drive and from an external drive to a new external drive etc., at different times and now the capture dates and times of all the images amongst those which were exported and simultaneously added to the catalog ...are also incorrect. Probably 15,000 or more photos affected. Lightroom simply overwrote the original date because something was done to the image (such as moving it or looking at it, etc.) I have no backup that would resolve the issue without creating untold havoc.

To say I feel a little victimized by Adobe is an understatement. I had no idea about that XMP thing. My system got so slow as Adobe introduced flawed update on top of flawed update that I had no choice but to let their people under the hoods of my Windows 10, my Graphics Processor settings and drivers,  and my Lightroom and Photoshop and each Adobe rep had a different approach than the prior one. So many changes were made who knows what I've got now. 

Looking at that "Automatically write changes into XMP" thing, it says Changes made in LR will not automatically be visible in other application unless written to XMP. Not even sure when that was turned on. Yesterday the Adobe rep turned it off, saying it was the culprit that was altering the dates as I viewed images. Again for LR to display those metadata change dates as the "Capture Date and Time" makes no sense to me at all. 

The images are all in their correct folders like 20190525 so about workaround I can see now is go into each such folder, filter to the errant date and using Lightroom, change all those photos to that folder date ...with no 'time' stamp or perhaps a noon time stamp to split the difference. At least that way I'd retain ratings and keywords. Then I could create folders for any exported and simultaneously added to catalog images and drag those into those folders where they would sort by filename. Those left in the original folder would have the  original file name which I could sort. 

HUGE undertaking to sort this mess out. Isn't it normal for photographers to export and simultaneously import and not want all the metadata to go with the exports? Wouldn't it make sense for Adobe to give us the option of retaining the original capture date and time along with the copyright and contact information?

Anyway ...thanks for reading this and trying to help. I'm certainly open to any suggestions. Really feeling like I'm an Adobe soccer ball here!


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## John Little (May 25, 2019)

No offense, but I'd rather not make the effort to understand all the twists and turns that got you into this mess. Would you (or someone else) be kind enough to provide a simple explanation of what went wrong, so that others can avoid the same trap?

Thanks
John


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## Victoria Bampton (May 25, 2019)

Honestly, I'm still not sure how you got into this state, or how xmp supposed to relate to it. I wouldn't take too much notice of the Adobe reps, as they're usually reading off cheat sheets and have no real world experience.

Whether you were writing to xmp or not would not affect capture times in Lightroom. The only ways to affect the capture time in LR are the Edit Capture Time dialog and the Sync Metadata dialog. I'm sure someone can prove me wrong, but I can't think of any others on a Saturday night. Ok, one exception, exporting photos without any metadata and importing the resulting photos could potentially import without dates, but that wouldn't remove metadata from existing images.



jjlad said:


> I also note that from within Lightroom, I had moved many years of photos from one an internal drive to an external drive and from an external drive to a new external drive etc., at different times and now the capture dates and times of all the images amongst those which were exported and simultaneously added to the catalog ...are also incorrect.


Hang on, that could be key, how did you do that?

For as much as it sounds scary, I can't see any form of a bug here so far. A bunch of misleading tech support advice, yes,, and a whole bunch of potential user mishaps, but I don't see any signs of a bug yet.


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## jjlad (May 25, 2019)

Thanks Victoria. What that last rep told me is that if "Automatically write changes into XMP" is on, then for photos that don't have a capture date (photos exported with the 'add to catalog' option checked and anything other than the "All Metadata" checked ...LR would note the date something was done (even just opening the image or moving images among hard drives) and, in the absence of a Capture Date, display the new metadata date as though it is the Capture Date and perform all sorting by date on that. We even tested that when the rep was on the phone in order to prove it to me.
On photos that had been previously exported and added to the catalog then subsequently moved from one drive to another by dragging and dropping in LR, even in Windows Explorer the file dates changed to when I moved them. In Windows Explorer the Date Taken remains blank so it is within Lightroom that the substitution of the last Metadata change date is being displayed and used as the"date". 
I just tried it on a photo where I turned on  "Automatically write changes into XMP" then changed the white balance on a photo that didn't have a capture date, and as soon as I made the WB change ...the date displayed on the photo changed to that moment.

In response to Jon in terms of preventing this:
If you export and add your exported images to the catalog and still want the original date to show up ...you must export with ALL METADATA checked so the exported photo has it all when it gets recorded in the catalog.
If you select anything other than that, the images added to the catalog will not have a Capture Date. 
LR will display the Metadata Date in place of that, while the Metadata panel will show nothing for the Date Created. 
If  "Automatically write changes into XMP" is turned on that displayed and used date will change every time you do anything at all to that photo ...even just opening it from Grid or Filmstrip. Thousands of mine changed just by moving them from one drive to another from within LR.
To say sorting then becomes a nightmare is an award winning understatement!
Personally I don't want every exported photo to have all the Metadata as they are usually going to clients. I would however like to keep the original date and time but Lightroom's Export Dialog offers no option to include Copyright & Contact info AND the original date and time.

I certainly don't envy anyone else who experiences this and I know the only way that "Automatically write changes into XMP" option got turned on is if one of the many Adobe Techs who have been on my system ...clicked it on or it came turned on by default in one of the updates. It's off now and will stay off. I'd strongly advise you to turn yours off if you have images that were exported and added to your catalog with anything other then "All Metadata" checked.


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## John Little (May 26, 2019)

Thanks for the clarification! I'm glad you sorted out what happened, though it's not optimal that you're stuck with the results. Since I don't add my exported shots back to the catalog, I'm home free with respect to this particular trap at least.


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## Victoria Bampton (May 26, 2019)

The thread seems to be going way off track JJ. The issue isn't which date LR picks when it's missing, but why it's missing in the first place. It does seem that we've tracked it down to exporting without metadata and adding the result to the catalog, but there's never reason to do that.



jjlad said:


> Thousands of mine changed just by moving them from one drive to another from within LR.


Moving photos from one drive to another still can't lose the capture time. Removing photos from the catalog, stripping the metadata and reimporting them at a new location can lose all sorts of metadata, but that's why we repeatedly tell people not to reimport photos. Here's how to do it: How do I move only my photos to another hard drive, leaving the catalog where it is?

Now, do you have a backup catalog that has the right dates? If so, there are probably ways to get the right dates back.


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## Califdan (May 26, 2019)

> I also saw yesterday that the selection of what Metadata to include changed as I scrolled my mouse to move down the export dialog. I was too close too close to that box and didn't even realize it until I moved back up and noticed the change. Talk about having to be careful! I may have a mixed bag of exports due to that.


Yes, this is very annoying and bad.  Has happened to me many times as I constantly use the mouse scroll wheel to move up and down in screens.


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## jjlad (May 26, 2019)

Thanks Victoria. I see the problem goes back further than any backup I have that would cover it and if I used an old backup I'd have to re do everything since, so I don't see that as an option. To resolve the date issue I've been selecting an entire year:




Then with that selected in Grid View, I open the metadata and look at the dates. In this case for example dates are showing from different YEARS.




The metadata reveals there are dates ranging from 2014 to 2018 plus there are 103 photos listed with Unknown dates. Since now I know those are likely 'exports' I'll start with those. (I've been working on 2015 for awhile so it is far less complex than yesterday). When I select the Unknown' in the metadata, all 103 appear in the grid. I select one of those and "Go to folder in Library"
That takes me to exactly those images in 2015/201505/20150507.
To correct the issue I Select All/Metadata/Edit Capture Time and change to 03/07/15 and that corrects the problem and the metadata no longer shows them as unknown. I repeat for the other odd dates until it all makes sense again. For sure in each folder I expect a few odd dates due to dropping other images into that folder (eg. a realtor may ask me to use a shot supplied by a homeowner because it was taken in summer and the listing is going up with my photos in winter. Etc. It's the massive exported batches that I'm correcting because they are playing such havoc with rating and keywording.
I have never removed photos from the catalog, stripped the metadata and reimported them at a new location. When I got new 4 TB USB drives I moved whole years from the 1 TB USB drives to the new ones, by dragging and dropping in LR. I found thousands of exported and 'added to catalog' photos that had dates matching when I started using a new drive. They were still in their original folders and none had a Date Created, so I can only assume the Metadata Date which was then 'displayed' as the photo's date and on which sorting now happened ...got there by virtue of that move. I don't know how else it could have because all I did was move the images ....several years after they were initially catalogued in LR. My catalog never moved.
Anyway ...I'm getting it sorted out gradually following the routine described above and I'll just keep at it until satisfied.
Thanks for all your help, and I will read your recommendations.
Regards!


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## jjlad (May 26, 2019)

Just a note about why ...
I had been 'adding exported photos to the catalog' because often I'd need to send images to different publications around our province and each would have a different specification. Consequently the same photos were being exported numerous times with different specs. I created numerous export presets for those which would put them in folders specific to each need but they all got into those without capture times so were vulnerable to the dates changing later. Many times resends were necessary and having them in the library saved time.
Thanks for all your help! This one's a ride.


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## jjlad (May 26, 2019)

Califdan said:


> Yes, this is very annoying and bad.  Has happened to me many times as I constantly use the mouse scroll wheel to move up and down in screens.


The Adobe rep told me that was due to a mouse setting in the operating system so I went into my Windows 10 mouse settings and disabled "Scroll inactive windows when I hover over them", then I restarted my computer, got the export dialog open for a photo and found that it still scrolls the selections. 
 Why have a drop down from which to select if a selection is made by merely scrolling? I double checked my mouse settings and that option is still turned off and there are no other settings with which I can tweak that. I also went into the specific Microsoft mouse settings and there is no option related to that there, so it appears the Adobe rep was mistaken on that and the issue is within LR, although I haven't been able to find a LR setting to control it.


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## Hal P Anderson (May 26, 2019)

It isn't really a Lightroom issue. Scrolling dropdowns with the mouse wheel happens everywhere, as far as i know. It's probably a Windows thing.


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## jjlad (May 26, 2019)

I seem to rrmber a setting that controlled that on an earlier version of Windows but can't find one in W10.


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## jjlad (May 27, 2019)

Happy Sunday all. I found something else that may be adding to the confusion of my files. It looks like that option to save changes to XMP got turned on long after the original file dates and that doing things to the images after that, altered the XMP dates. Here's an example from one of my folders:




One of the Adobe reps must have thought it was a good idea to write changes to them and the dates now reflect the latest (until I turned that option OFF  the other day).  My question is ...does it matter if those dates are so far out of sync? I think the only images that get really messed up are the exported/added ones that don't have a capture date, and those I'm editing to get right.
I'm assuming I can't just delete all the XMP files and to sync their dates to the original files looks like an angry grizzly so I'm hoping if they are just left as is it won't matter. Please let me know. Thanks.


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## Victoria Bampton (May 28, 2019)

XMP dates won't matter, as the current info is stored in the database. 

A long shot, but what happens if you go to Edit Capture Time and set it to Date Created?


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## jjlad (May 31, 2019)

Thanks Victoria. I looked at that. The option reads "Change to file creation date" and that just picks up the last metadata date which if "Automatically write changes into XMP"  is turned on ...is the last date the file was viewed in LR or otherwise, if if that isn't turned on it picks up the metadata date on which the exported file was created. I'm still finding issues and correcting as I go using the system I described but I really think Adobe needs to offer an seperate choice export option to include the date taken.


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## Victoria Bampton (Jun 1, 2019)

Oh yes of course, because that is the date these were created. I keep forgetting we're talking about derivative files instead of originals.


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