# I need tips on how to effectively use the highlight and shadow sliders in Lightroom 4



## Sgt_Strider (Sep 23, 2012)

Despite reading a few guides and playing around with the sliders, I still feel that I can't produce any results as good as with LR3. I know I need to give it more time to practice, but I'm getting frustrated with the results. Does anyone here have any major tips on how to adjust and get good results with the two sliders?


----------



## Victoria Bampton (Sep 23, 2012)

My best tip - make sure you've got Exposure right first, and Contrast in the right ballpark.  If you get that wrong, it's really hard to get Highlights/Shadows to look right.  If you get them right, S&H fall into place quite easily.  

Can you give us some examples of photos you're having trouble with, and the settings you've used so far?


----------



## bobrobert (Sep 23, 2012)

Anyone who has used PS in the past will find LR4 "strange" to work with. The thinking in the past was to set your highlights and blacks to there lightest and darkest with a little detail. With LR4 you set your mid tones, three quarter and quarter tones first and then your highlights and blacks last, if at all. I find it hard to get used to. This is imo reverse thinking. I am still wondering what is best?


----------



## Tony Jay (Sep 23, 2012)

Have to agree with all the posts.

Try to go in the order that the sliders are arranged - from top-to-bottom.
The exposure and contrast sliders are the real keys to getting your image right.
Everything else is just subsequent fine-tuning as far as tonal adjustments are concerned, however you can go on to use the tone curve adjustment if you like.

Regards

Tony Jay


----------



## Jimmsp (Sep 23, 2012)

Victoria Bampton said:


> My best tip - make sure you've got Exposure right first, and Contrast in the right ballpark.  ....



I'd make the #2 tip - and a good one. The 1st should always be - calibrate your monitor. If you are miscalibrated in brightness or contrast, you won't be able to adjust the shadows and bright areas properly.


----------



## Tony Jay (Sep 23, 2012)

Jimmsp said:


> I'd make the #2 tip - and a good one. The 1st should always be - calibrate your monitor. If you are miscalibrated in brightness or contrast, you won't be able to adjust the shadows and bright areas properly...



True but the comments prior go to actual manipulations in Lr.

Regards

Tony Jay


----------



## OldFrank (Sep 24, 2012)

Are you shooting Raw? It is much harder to see the effects of Highlights in a jpg. 

For learning my suggestion is to find a raw photo with a wide range of illumination. Then just spend some time moving one slider at a time (leaving the others centered) to get a feel for its effect. Don't concern yourself with getting a good result. 

This summer I shot some photos of frothy water in a mountain stream. Most have areas of direct sunlight on the water and surrounding areas in shade. I start by adjusting Exposure and Contrast for overall scene lighting, but ignore the blown out sections of water. Then I adjust the Highlights slider until the detail in the water pops out. LR4 has made these scenes along with cloud formations workable for the first time.


----------



## Anthony.Ralph (Sep 24, 2012)

If you care to spend $60.00 I can thoroughly recommend the LuLa series of videos with Jeff Schewe and Michael Reichmann (plus Eric Chan in the recent updated segments). 

http://store.luminous-landscape.com...in_page=product_info&cPath=25&products_id=286

Anthony.


----------



## bobrobert (Sep 25, 2012)

Yesterday I watched the video with Eric and Jeff. Though Eric didn't go into great detail he explained the reasoning behind the order in which you would use the tone controls. He made things a little clearer for me. However I still think it is possible to use the controls in which order you prefer even if it means more work. The adjustments aren't made when you use a particular slider but at the end of your endeavours they are applied.


----------



## Anthony.Ralph (Sep 25, 2012)

bobrobert said:


> Yesterday I watched the video with Eric and Jeff. Though Eric didn't go into great detail he explained the reasoning behind the order in which you would use the tone controls. He made things a little clearer for me. However I still think it is possible to use the controls in which order you prefer even if it means more work. The adjustments aren't made when you use a particular slider but at the end of your endeavours they are applied.



Nevertheless, the visual effect of the adjustments you make - and subsequent decisions that may be made on other adjustments later in the sequence - are affected, so the admonition to work 'top-down, left-right' does provide the easiest way to proceed. Highlights, Shadows, Black and White are, if you like, adjustments of adjustments.

Anthony.


----------



## bobrobert (Sep 25, 2012)

In the video Jeff commented that sometimes he will use the controls in the order they are set and when he reaches the blacks - at the bottom - he will then go back and tweak the shadows and even exposure. He has a book out soon that deals with the develop side of LR and not the organizational side. It should be interesting because I think the top down to the bottom isn't the last word on the subject?


----------



## Jim Wilde (Sep 25, 2012)

I do try the top-down route, and often it's OK....but sometimes I find myself going back to make a small tweak to exposure and/or contrast as I didn't quite 'nail it' first time.


----------



## Tony Jay (Sep 25, 2012)

TNG said:


> I do try the top-down route, and often it's OK....but sometimes I find myself going back to make a small tweak to exposure and/or contrast as I didn't quite 'nail it' first time.



I reckon all of us do that from time to time.

And the order in which we do the edits doesn't ultimately matter to Process 2012 since it will optimize everything when actually rendering an image.

Regards

Tony Jay


----------



## bobrobert (Sep 25, 2012)

I have just been processing an image and part of the processing was to lighten shadows. Following the "accepted" thinking I would lighten the shadows and then set the black point using the black slider. Surely it makes sense to first set the black point and then lighten the shadows with respect to the black point as one would do if they were using PS?


----------



## Anthony.Ralph (Sep 25, 2012)

bobrobert said:


> I have just been processing an image and part of the processing was to lighten shadows. Following the "accepted" thinking I would lighten the shadows and then set the black point using the black slider. Surely it makes sense to first set the black point and then lighten the shadows with respect to the black point as one would do if they were using PS?



My take on this is, that once the shadows have been adjusted, there*may* be a need to re-balance the image to retain the desired contrast. This would be done using the black slider. The black slider may may have a rôle in dealing with clipping, but not primarily as a 'set black clipping' tool alone. I would suggest that the same thing is true of the highlights and whites sliders too.

Anthony.


----------



## Victoria Bampton (Sep 25, 2012)

bobrobert said:


> Surely it makes sense to first set the black point and  then lighten the shadows with respect to the black point as one would  do if they were using PS?



It may work in some cases but not all, because the range of the latter sliders is adjusted by the earlier ones.  That includes Blacks being adjusted by Shadows.


----------



## Tony Jay (Sep 25, 2012)

Basically the 'heavy lifting' in tonal manipulation is done by the exposure and contrast sliders in PV2012.
This is a fundamental departure from PV2010 and although the sliders keep names used in 
PV2010 their role is different.

All the other sliders the manipulate tone below the contrast slider are there to fine-tune what was done with exposure and contrast.
It is true that one can find it necessary on occasions to go back to contrast and exposure in a round tripping sort of way and then back around to highlights, shadows, blacks and whites, but that does not negate the fact that exposure and contrast are there to 'set the scene'.

Regards

Tony Jay


----------

