# Why two develop sliders?



## quantum (Dec 2, 2013)

I know, I know, I've been using LR5 for some time. I still have trouble with understanding all the sliders compared with PV 2010. Which is why when I'm in a hurry I use what I'm used to. It just makes more sense to me.

John


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 2, 2013)

In a hurry is definitely not the best time to learn new software, I agree.  

But which bits are confusing you?  You'll find it easier if you stop comparing to PV2010 and look at what the sliders actually do now.


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## quantum (Dec 2, 2013)

Ok. Two sliders for Shadows and two for highlights. I meant to put that in the heading (can you change that?)
You've got one on basic panel then another in tone curve. No others are repeated. But then you've got the whites and blacks vs lights and darks. 
Confusing.


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## johnbeardy (Dec 2, 2013)

The one in Basic is "adaptive", so it adjusts blocks or areas of "shadow" tones. The one on the tone curve flexes the tone curve and adjusts the rendition of tonal values anywhere in the image. 

John


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## Replytoken (Dec 3, 2013)

johnbeardy said:


> The one in Basic is "adaptive", so it adjusts blocks or areas of "shadow" tones. The one on the tone curve flexes the tone curve and adjusts the rendition of tonal values anywhere in the image.
> 
> John



John,

Is there any material that further elaborates on these differences?  I, too, seem to have trained myself too well to PV 2010, and have not fully retrained myself for the PV2012.  I would ask you to elaborate, but I suspect that a detailed answer is more than one would care to write if it has already been properly covered.  Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

--Ken


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## Rob_Cullen (Dec 3, 2013)

A simple visual clue to the sliders is the Histogram- Place your mouse cursor on one of the sliders and you will see a grey panel appear on the histogram that indicates where the tones will be adjusted with that slider. Notice that the "Exposure" slider shows a grey panel in the larger portion central on the histogram.
The Highlight and Shadow sliders are useful to prevent 'clipping'  (click the clipping triangles) to preview clipping as red highlights and blue shadows.
The Blacks and Whites sliders can be used similar to the process of setting the Black and White points in the "Levels" command in Photoshop. (Holding the ALT key will preview clipping)


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## johnbeardy (Dec 3, 2013)

Replytoken said:


> John,
> 
> Is there any material that further elaborates on these differences?  I, too, seem to have trained myself too well to PV 2010, and have not fully retrained myself for the PV2012.  I would ask you to elaborate, but I suspect that a detailed answer is more than one would care to write if it has already been properly covered.  Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> ...



Ken,

I've no doubt you'll find lengthier descriptions of these differences in books like Victoria's or Martin Evening's. I tend to feel that the bullet point is what's really important and that its importance gets lost when described over a number of pages! As soon as one says that the Basic panel sliders build an internal mask you start to see eyes glazing over, but that's essentially what's happening - ACR looks for blocks of shadows or highlights and adjusts them, but leaves smaller areas alone. The Tone Curve doesn't have that subtlety - or deviousness. It's easiest to describe the effect by thinking of the very brightest or very darkest tones in an image. The Basic panel slider control them by adjusting blocks or areas of almost-white or almost-black, yet leaves the sparkly details or points of black, while the tone curve adjusts how these almost-whites or almost-blacks are rendered everywhere in the image. I don't feel one needs the tone curve much at all, and it strikes me that those who do use it most are too attached to their experience of Photoshop. That's a crude generalisation, but I think it's broadly true. Anyway, I'm sure there are lengthier descriptions but simply being aware that there is this adaptive / global distinction is the key to the individual understanding the differences for themselves. 

John


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## quantum (Dec 3, 2013)

Thanks to all for your comments, I am most pleased that i have started off a discussion. I am certainly in need of training and will look at any suggested videos/ training resources that are available to help understand what is going on and best practises.

John


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 3, 2013)

Take a look at George Jardine's videos on this - he covers it more than I do.


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## sizzlingbadger (Dec 3, 2013)

The confusion really arises because Adobe chose to name the sliders in the curves panel the same as in the basic panel (or vice versa). They are different and they could have avoided the confusion with some sensible names in my opinion.

The old Highlight slider used to be called Recovery which makes a lot more sense as that is exactly what it is doing.


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## Replytoken (Dec 4, 2013)

Thank you John, Victoria and Nik.  I suspect that I should watch a video so I can see the differences (and that should help me to better understand the differences).  I do have to agree with Nik in that Recovery made sense to me as I understood what the slider was doing (recovering highlights).

Thanks,

--Ken


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 4, 2013)

sizzlingbadger said:


> The old Highlight slider used to be called Recovery which makes a lot more sense as that is exactly what it is doing.



Except the slider now goes in 2 different directions, only one of which involves recovering highlight detail now.


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## quantum (Dec 5, 2013)

Am amazed more people haven;t commented before on these points and have just taken on board 2012. I am not an inexperienced user of LR and a practising Pro photographer for 26 years. I admit to not through reading and watching training resources since the new process version but blindly thought I'd work it out myself as I had done for the previous versions. I was wrong. It is counter-intuitive IMHO as are the naming conventions as sugested by Nik.

I am not maybe the average user of LR. As I don;t tend to process for very long on each image. Lightroom to me was a godsend in it's early days as it was a light, simple and fast running application without too many bells and whistles. Those days are gone and LR does everything (probably) a lot better and to me, quite a bit slower. LR 5.2 has however fixed some of the slow running that I experienced in v3 7 v4.

John


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## Victoria Bampton (Dec 6, 2013)

I think you (and I!) are at a disadvantage because the old sliders are so well engrained in our memory.  The new ones work better, and they're simpler if you haven't used anything before, but they're quite a mental shift if you're used to the old sliders.


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