# DNG still image not treated as a RAW file



## tjcadwalader (Apr 30, 2018)

I use a DJI Phantom 4 Pro drone and when I bring in RAW stills Lightroom 7.3 does not have the raw Profiles available.  The profile shows as "color"..  Onely the artistic and third party profiles are available.  The file extension is DNG.  I even tried to go through the Adobe DNG converter, it wont open the images, so I assume it knows they are already DNG.  
I can adjust the White Balance just like a raw file and everything else is ok, it's just the profiles that are missing, I should add there are no camera profiles either.

Is anyone else experiencing this?


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## Johan Elzenga (Apr 30, 2018)

It looks like these are not raw files. DNG-files can contain RGB data too, and that seems to be the case here.


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## tjcadwalader (Apr 30, 2018)

I am not a DNG user, but my understanding is that DNG is a raw file.  In my camera menu I choose raw vs jpeg and the resulting files are DNG.  I thought these would be raw.  But apparently Lightroom doesn’t think so. I am not understanding this correctly?  If I were to import images from my dslr and convert to DNG on import...would camera profiles and Adobe raw profiles be available ?


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## Victoria Bampton (Apr 30, 2018)

As Johan said, DNG's don't always contain mosaic raw data (the kind we consider raw). They can contain scene-referred data instead.  

But in this case, there's a slightly different cause if I remember rightly... Adobe hasn't created profiles for the DJI Phantom, so they only show up with the profile the manufacturer's embed.


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## clee01l (Apr 30, 2018)

DNG is a file format basted upon the TIFF/EP6 standard There is a header block that describes (among other things) the data contained in the data block.  If your camera shoots and outputs DNG, it will conform to the standard AND the data block should be RAW data from the sensor photo sites.   Before this data can be used however, it needs to be demosaic'd and converted to RGB (pixels).  This is accomplished by an app like ACR.   You can take a JPEG image which is already RGB and convert it to DNG and the data block will be RGB data not RAW photo site values.

Your DJI DNG files should be RAW data in DNG format.   My DJI Mavic Pro DNG files appear to be RAW and open in LR, ACR/PSCC and Irident Developer as RAW files   IN LR the lens profile is identified as DJI MavicPro FC220.  If I use Process version 3 I get three choices (Embedded, Color and Monochrome).  There are no Adobe  Profiles for my DJI Mavic Pro.  If I use Process version 4 The current,  I get only 2 choices (Color and Monochrome).  There are no Adobe  Profiles for my DJI Mavic Pro for Process version 4 either.   FWIW, I do not see Nikon profiles for my D810 in Process version 3 or 4 either.  I do see Adobe derived profiles .   What this means is that the mimicked develop profiles that Nikon used for in camera JPEGs is no longer available.  You gave a RAW file and the ability to massage the data to create a unique profile. 

Now perhaps some one (Adobe?) will reverse engineer the in camera settings to produce a profile similar to the in camera JPEG for the DJI, but it is not essential since toy have all of the tools in LR/ACR to produce a finished product that should in every case be superior to the in camera JPEG.


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## tjcadwalader (May 1, 2018)

Thank you for all of the replies. They were helpful. I think I now have a better understanding and more realistic expectations.


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## Johan Elzenga (May 1, 2018)

If these DNG's are raw after all, it signals a disturbing thing. Adobe always promotes DNG as the 'universal raw format'. As long as manufacturers would use DNG, all would be great and there wouldn't be any compatibility problems. Many photographers repeat this and blame manufacturers for not using DNG instead of their own proprietary raw file format. Now it seems this is no longer true. DNG is not so universal after all. I can understand that there are no profiles like 'Camera Landscape' and 'Camera Portrait' if Adobe didn't make profiles for this particular camera. But if DNG was really a universal raw format, then there should always be profiles like 'Adobe Landscape' and 'Adobe Portrait', even when a camera isn't supported with camera-specific profiles.


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## tjcadwalader (May 1, 2018)

JohanElzenga said:


> If these DNG's are raw after all, it signals a disturbing thing. Adobe always promotes DNG as the 'universal raw format'. As long as manufacturers would use DNG, all would be great and there wouldn't be any compatibility problems. Many photographers repeat this and blame manufacturers for not using DNG instead of their own proprietary raw file format. Now it seems this is no longer true. DNG is not so universal after all. I can understand that there are no profiles like 'Camera Landscape' and 'Camera Portrait' if Adobe didn't make profiles for this particular camera. But if DNG was really a universal raw format, then there should always be profiles like 'Adobe Landscape' and 'Adobe Portrait', even when a camera isn't supported with camera-specific profiles.



Exactly what I was thinking.  I can understand no camera profiles, but not the raw profiles.


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## johnbeardy (May 1, 2018)

DNG can be raw or non-raw. Select the image and in the Metadata panel switch to the DNG field view. What does Mosaic Data say? If Yes, it's got raw data. If no, the raw data has been demosaiced.


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## PhilBurton (May 1, 2018)

johnbeardy said:


> DNG can be raw or non-raw. Select the image and in the Metadata panel switch to the DNG field view. What does Mosaic Data say? If Yes, it's got raw data. If no, the raw data has been demosaiced.



And this is the issue, with DNG, and with any standard that allows for options.  It might be that there is an option in the DNG "standard" that is not implemented in LR, for whatever reason.  

This situation happens only all the time. 

Phil


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## Hal P Anderson (May 1, 2018)

I downloaded a sample DNG file from that camera. It's definitely raw.


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## tjcadwalader (May 2, 2018)

Hal P Anderson said:


> I downloaded a sample DNG file from that camera. It's definitely raw.



Yes the Mosiac is a Yes.


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## tjcadwalader (May 2, 2018)

I am learning WAY MORE about DNG than I ever thought I would want to.


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## Johan Elzenga (May 2, 2018)

Hal P Anderson said:


> I downloaded a sample DNG file from that camera. It's definitely raw.


So it seems we have two versions of DNG now: ‘Supported DNG’ and ‘Unsupported DNG’.


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## Roelof Moorlag (May 2, 2018)

JohanElzenga said:


> So it seems we have two versions of DNG now: ‘Supported DNG’ and ‘Unsupported DNG’.


Very disturbing indeed


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## clee01l (May 2, 2018)

The OP does not have a DNG issue.  The OP has a DJI drone camera and Adobe does not provide support of camera profiles for this camera 





> Lightroom 7.3 does not have the raw Profiles available.


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## PhilBurton (May 3, 2018)

clee01l said:


> The OP does not have a DNG issue.  The OP has a DJI drone camera and Adobe does not provide support of camera profiles for this camera


True enough, but the root issue here is how much Adobe supports in LR the different options within the DNG standard.  It would be nice to make a clear, public statement of this support so that everyone understands these issues.

Phil Burton


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## Victoria Bampton (May 9, 2018)

JohanElzenga said:


> But if DNG was really a universal raw format, then there should always be profiles like 'Adobe Landscape' and 'Adobe Portrait', even when a camera isn't supported with camera-specific profiles.



The lack of Adobe camera profiles has nothing to do with the fact it's DNG. Adobe has simply chosen to use profiles provided by the camera manufacturer rather than creating their own. I agree they should create their own too, but it's an Adobe choice, not something specific to the  DNG format.


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## Johan Elzenga (May 9, 2018)

Victoria Bampton said:


> The lack of Adobe camera profiles has nothing to do with the fact it's DNG. Adobe has simply chosen to use profiles provided by the camera manufacturer rather than creating their own. I agree they should create their own too, but it's an Adobe choice, not something specific to the  DNG format.


I disagree. This only happens with DNG, not with proprietary raw. Yes, that’s because proprietary raw files do not come with profiles in the first place, so Adobe creates them as part of the raw support, but for the user that is not relevant. What is relevant is that some DNG’s are different from others in practise, and that’s not a good thing if you promote DNG as the universal format.


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## Victoria Bampton (May 10, 2018)

If I remember rightly, some Phase One Backs don't have an Adobe Standard profile either - and they're not DNG. Comparing the list of supported cameras with the list of Adobe Standard dcp files, it looks like the same is true of some Hasselblad, Kodak, Mamiya, Sigma, also not shooting DNG.

But I completely agree that if Adobe's going to list a camera as supported, it should have the full quota of Adobe profiles, especially since they're a big deal now, rather than just relying on the embedded profile. 

This isn't so much about DNG's universality - they can be opened in a wide range of software as advertised, and if you were opening them in other software, you wouldn't care about the lack of Adobe profiles - but the issue IMHO is Adobe not bothering to create their own profiles for some cameras.


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## PhilBurton (May 10, 2018)

Victoria Bampton said:


> If I remember rightly, some Phase One Backs don't have an Adobe Standard profile either - and they're not DNG. Comparing the list of supported cameras with the list of Adobe Standard dcp files, it looks like the same is true of some Hasselblad, Kodak, Mamiya, Sigma, also not shooting DNG.
> 
> But I completely agree that if Adobe's going to list a camera as supported, it should have the full quota of Adobe profiles, especially since they're a big deal now, rather than just relying on the embedded profile.
> 
> This isn't so much about DNG's universality - they can be opened in a wide range of software as advertised, and if you were opening them in other software, you wouldn't care about the lack of Adobe profiles - but the issue IMHO is Adobe not bothering to create their own profiles for some cameras.


Either Adobe should do as you say, or they should have a publicly declared policy on "levels of support."  That way, we could all know which vendors/camera models are "second-class citizens".


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