# An interesting thing ...



## MarkNicholas (Oct 22, 2017)

Operating System: Win 10 Pro creator

Lightroom Version: LR Classic and LR CC
_(Please go to Help menu > System Info to double check the exact version number)_

Question or Description of Problem:

Ok so I have downloaded all the new and updated software.

Thought I would play around a little with LR CC to see what it can do without doing any damage.

So I copied a few of my CR2 RAW files into a folder in Pictures and renamed the files # 1 to 10.

In LR CC I added them which meant they were uploaded to the Cloud.

Now this is what I found interesting. Those photos had the exact same settings that the original photos had in my LR Classic catalog ! However, the copied and renamed photos are still dated on the day the photos were taken. 

How was LR CC able to detect these photos and apply the LR Classic Edits ? What if I Edit these renamed photos. Will the Edits in LR Classic also change ?

A separate question: in File explorer there is a folder called "Creative Cloud Files". However the folder is empty even though I have 10 photos uploaded to the Cloud. Aren't  these photos supposed to be in this file ?


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## Jim Wilde (Oct 22, 2017)

MarkNicholas said:


> Now this is what I found interesting. Those photos had the exact same settings that the original photos had in my LR Classic catalog ! However, the copied and renamed photos are still dated on the day the photos were taken.
> 
> How was LR CC able to detect these photos and apply the LR Classic Edits ? What if I Edit these renamed photos. Will the Edits in LR Classic also change ?



I'm probably not understanding the sequence here, but are you saying that (ignoring LR Classic for now) the 10 CR2 images are showing as edited after being added, i.e. not all sliders at zero? If so, I'd guess that you might have XMP sidecars with those images? That would explain it, as LRCC will read and apply embedded or sidecar XMP. That's my initial thought, but if that's not the case come back and we'll think some more.



> A separate question: in File explorer there is a folder called "Creative Cloud Files". However the folder is empty even though I have 10 photos uploaded to the Cloud. Aren't  these photos supposed to be in this file ?



No, I assume that folder is for file sharing in the Dropbox manner, i.e. outside the cloud ecosystem, but still coming out of you storage allowance. Your LRCC "local files" (catalog/previews) are stored in AppData/Local/Adobe/Lightroom CC. Any retained originals (where and how many) will be held in accordance with the Preferences>Local Storage tab.


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## johnbeardy (Oct 22, 2017)

I guess that while Adobe's server must look at EXIF information such as the camera and serial number. Could that include some sort of UUID? In that case it could match the images and just assume that there's now an original where there was previously only a smart preview.


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## Jim Wilde (Oct 22, 2017)

johnbeardy said:


> I guess that while Adobe's server must look at EXIF information such as the camera and serial number. Could that include some sort of UUID? In that case it could match the images and just assume that there's now an original where there was previously only a smart preview.


Agreed, that was going to be the next thing to explore.


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## johnbeardy (Oct 22, 2017)

I love trying to break stuff - even if I do then find it's cleverer than I than I thought!


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## PhilBurton (Oct 22, 2017)

johnbeardy said:


> I love trying to break stuff - even if I do then find it's cleverer than I than I thought!


John,

I know you can't answer one way or the other but I sure hope that you are a beta tester for Adobe. 

Phil


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## clee01l (Oct 22, 2017)

If your 10 photo test contained photos that were already in your LR Mobile cloud repository, then LRCC was smart enough to detect duplicates.  You can find in LR Classic a collection set containing all of your LRCC photos from the cloud. By clicking on one, you can find the local location where LR Classic (not LRCC) has stored the files downloaded from the cloud. This should be a full size copy of the original CR2 files. 
IN your Pictures folder is a a folder called "Lightroom Library.lrlibrary"  It contains a folder with a machine generated name.  In a sub folder called "originals" you can find the CR2's that you  cataloged with LRCC *if* you chose to store these locally. 
My folder called "Creative Cloud Files" appears to contain image files associated with my Adobe Creative Cloud.


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## Jim Wilde (Oct 22, 2017)

clee01l said:


> IN your Pictures folder is a a folder called "Lightroom Library.lrlibrary"  It contains a folder with a machine generated name.  In a sub folder called "originals" you can find the CR2's that you  cataloged with LRCC *if* you chose to store these locally.


Pretty that's Mac-only, Cletus. On Windows, as I posted above, the default location for originals is in the AppData/Local/Adobe/Lightroom CC folder.


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## clee01l (Oct 22, 2017)

Jim Wilde said:


> Pretty that's Mac-only, Cletus. On Windows, as I posted above, the default location for originals is in the AppData/Local/Adobe/Lightroom CC folder.


Thanks for the clarification. That does not seem to be a very well thought out location for thousands of original images.  I understand this location is easy enough to change, but most won't know to or know why they should.  To me it sure seems to be a further "dumbing down" of LR for the digital illiterate.


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## Jim Wilde (Oct 22, 2017)

clee01l said:


> I understand this location is easy enough to change, but most won't know to or know why they should.



I don't even know why many would even need to know how or why. If they leave things alone at default settings they're highly unlikely to ever have "thousands of original images" stored locally. That extra bit to allow separate storage and specified location was, I'm pretty sure, added at the urging of some of the pros in the community so that it becomes a win for whichever camp you're in.

Dumbed down? If you want to think in those terms, that's fine. I'd prefer to say it's simplified for those who don't want to bothered with such things, whilst giving the more experienced user some of the controls they think they might need.


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## Jim Wilde (Oct 22, 2017)

johnbeardy said:


> I love trying to break stuff - even if I do then find it's cleverer than I than I thought!


Maybe it is cleverer than we thought, John. I've just tested it and yes, the dupes checking does appear to be perhaps more effective than Classic's.


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## johnbeardy (Oct 22, 2017)

You'd think Windows didn't have a Pictures folder, wouldn't you?


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## clee01l (Oct 22, 2017)

A entry level Windows laptop might have 256GB SSD.  While this might be sufficient for running Office with Office data stored in the cloud, it is going to get severely compromised once that 256GB or even 512GB SSD starts to fill up.  One of the biggest performance issues with Windows is the inadequate freespace when the user or apps start filling up the primary disk drive.  One of the advantages of LR over Aperture/Photos is that by default LR exposed the original images where the user could see and manage that storage space.  Now with LRCC, Adobe has taken that same approach of obfuscating the local location of the users images as Apple has done with Photos/Aperture.
You can look through the LightroomForum help topics and note how often users have filled up their *one* disk drive to cause issues with performance, importing, etc.
You don't need to know how to work on the engine of an automobile to be able to drive one.  But you certainly need to know how to change a flat tire and when and where to fill it with gas/petrol and when the engine oil need replacing and when the engine oil is low.


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## MarkNicholas (Oct 23, 2017)

Jim Wilde said:


> I'm probably not understanding the sequence here, but are you saying that (ignoring LR Classic for now) the 10 CR2 images are showing as edited after being added, i.e. not all sliders at zero?



Yes correct. sliders not at zero.



Jim Wilde said:


> If so, I'd guess that you might have XMP sidecars with those images? That would explain it, as LRCC will read and apply embedded or sidecar XMP. That's my initial thought, but if that's not the case come back and we'll think some more.



No xmp files. I did not copy the xmp files on purpose. Just the original CR2 files.


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## Jim Wilde (Oct 23, 2017)

If the originals that you created the copies from (which you then renamed and added to LRCC) were already synced, then LRCC's duplicates checking method would appear to be different in some way to Classic's. I did the same test myself yesterday and it did detect the dupes were dupes, aligned them with the originals (i.e. the file with the old name which only existed in the ecosystem in smart preview form at that point) then uploaded them to the ecosystem as originals. Back in CC there was no change.


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## MarkNicholas (Oct 23, 2017)

Jim Wilde said:


> If the originals that you created the copies from (which you then renamed and added to LRCC) were already synced, then LRCC's duplicates checking method would appear to be different in some way to Classic's. I did the same test myself yesterday and it did detect the dupes were dupes, aligned them with the originals (i.e. the file with the old name which only existed in the ecosystem in smart preview form at that point) then uploaded them to the ecosystem as originals. Back in CC there was no change.



I tried again with some old CR2 photos that I know were never synced and they were all zero'd in LRCC. 

After playing around with LRCC I am actually beginning to like it (but don't tell anyone). I am still trying to figure out how and whether it is really something I would use long term and will wait for the dust to settle and my understanding to grow before making any kind of commitment.


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## Jim Wilde (Oct 23, 2017)

MarkNicholas said:


> After playing around with LRCC I am actually beginning to like it (but don't tell anyone).


No worries, Mark...I like it too!


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