# Deleting LR's default develop presets



## Pollok Shields (Dec 15, 2016)

LR comes with a bunch of develop presets I'm never going to use. I want rid of them. Any clues?


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## clee01l (Dec 15, 2016)

Short answer is that you can't.  What you can do is create a Folder that sort ahead of the "Lightroom..." folders.  If you begin your Folder name with a number (like "1.0 User Presets") it will sort ahead of everything else.  You can then drag your develop presets out of the "User" preset folder to this new folder.  This gets your Presets folder at the top of the list and the LR default presets further down where they can be ignored.

FWIW, you can create a duplicate of any of the LR default presets by dragging it to your USER created folder.


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 15, 2016)

I was hoping they might be hidden away in the apps files somewhere and I could delete them from there. Never mind. Duplicate tip appreciated though, I do use one LR preset on occasion, I've made a copy.

Oh, but I don't think you can create a folder "1.0 User Presets". Don't seem to be allowed spaces...


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 15, 2016)

Pollok Shields said:


> Oh, but I don't think you can create a folder "1.0 User Presets". Don't seem to be allowed spaces...



There's no problem with that name.....how/where are you trying to create the folder?


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 16, 2016)

Jim Wilde said:


> There's no problem with that name.....how/where are you trying to create the folder?



By control-clicking in the Preset list and selecting New Folder where the New Folder dialog box is pre completed with the Folder Name 'Untitled Folder' and the Save button is greyed out. Remove the space in the name and the Save button is available. Ditto any folder name you want to create, 'Pollok's Presets' can't be created but Pollok's-Presets' can.

The same is true when clicking the '+' button at the top of the Preset list create a new Preset. While you may create a Preset with a space in its name, if you go on to create a new folder for that Preset you come across the same 'no spaces' problem.


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 16, 2016)

It works correctly on my El Capitan system, so you have a problem somewhere. However, an easy workaround is to create the folder manually in Finder, then restart Lightroom and it should pick up the new folder (create it in the root of Develop Presets, not in the User Presets sub-folder). See attached screenshot, the 2.0 Presets folder I just created by using the right-click>New Folder method in the Lightroom Presets panel.


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 16, 2016)

Missing your screen shot but I know where to look.

In fact I just renamed the folder in Finder and LR doesn't complain. Good, thanks again.

OTOH, try and rename that folder - which now has a space - from, say, "Pollok's Presets" to Pollok's Presets One" back in LR and the save button becomes greyed out again. Can't be saved with a new space. But you can save with the old space. Which all sounds more of a bug than a feature to me. We'd need someone else with macOS Sierra to confirm though.


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 16, 2016)

Maybe it is a Sierra problem, let's wait for one of our Sierra users to chime in.


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## Paul B (Dec 16, 2016)

Nope ... I can create a presets folder with spaces.


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 16, 2016)

It's just me being difficult again then!?


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## Paul B (Dec 16, 2016)

It's looking that way   Dunno; but it doesn't look like the OS or LR versions.


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## Jim Wilde (Dec 16, 2016)

You could try a prefs reset: Resetting the lightroom preferences file - updated


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 16, 2016)

Lightroom is sometimes a bit funny with spaces in new folder names. What I have seen is that Lightroom would not accept a space in the name of a new subfolder on import, even though it was perfectly happy to change the name of that folder (and include a space) later on in the folder panel. It happened on my old MacBook Air (now replaced by a new MacBook Pro), I still have to check if it happens on all my systems.


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 16, 2016)

Jim Wilde said:


> You could try a prefs reset: Resetting the lightroom preferences file - updated


I'll leave that until we've decided it defiantly just me, neither Adobe or Apple's fault. Bookmarked that link. Thanks.


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## Paul B (Dec 16, 2016)

There's always the option to back up your prefs first. You could try the reset to see if it at least resolved your issue; you still then have the option to revert. See under "_Resetting the Preferences File – Lightroom 6/CC only_" in the article.


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## clee01l (Dec 16, 2016)

Jim Wilde said:


> Maybe it is a Sierra problem, let's wait for one of our Sierra users to chime in.


I can create a folder name with one Space but not two.  I can't rename a folder and put in additional spaces either.  As soon as a add the 2nd space the Create/rename button goes gray. I think it is a LR 6.8 bug since existing multi space folder names are accepted and if you create the folder in your Develop presets folder using Finder and re start LR the Folder is accepted


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## Paul B (Dec 16, 2016)

I can insert as many spaces as I like, including amending existing names. What I can't do is add spaces at the end, which makes sense.


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## clee01l (Dec 16, 2016)

Paul B said:


> I can insert as many spaces as I like, including amending existing names. What I can't do is add spaces at the end, which makes sense.
> 
> View attachment 8669


That's it!! No Spaces at the end.


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## Paul B (Dec 16, 2016)

Still leaves the OP's problem though: "1.0 User Presets" doesn't work for them.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 16, 2016)

Paul B said:


> Still leaves the OP's problem though: "1.0 User Presets" doesn't work for them.



Maybe he also added a space at the end, possibly without realizing it.


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## Paul B (Dec 16, 2016)

They seem to have been pretty thorough in what they've tried ...


Pollok Shields said:


> By control-clicking in the Preset list and selecting New Folder where the New Folder dialog box is pre completed with the Folder Name 'Untitled Folder' and the Save button is greyed out. Remove the space in the name and the Save button is available.


In that scenario the Save button would not become enabled when the space was removed if there was a space at the end. I'm sure they will confirm.


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 16, 2016)

No, its not a 'space at the end' issue for me. The default name of a new folder is "Untitled Folder" and the Save button is greyed out. Delete the space and I can save the folder. Checked and I'm not adding a space at the end.


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## clee01l (Dec 16, 2016)

Pollok Shields said:


> No, its not a 'space at the end' issue for me. The default name of a new folder is "Untitled Folder" and the Save button is greyed out. Delete the space and I can save the folder. Checked and I'm not adding a space at the end.


You must be doing something like that. Until "Paul B" pointed out the Space at the end problem I thought it was a bug too.   Both Paul B an I are able to create any folder name  with spaces and other non standard characters on Sierra. 
Exit LR, then Go to the develop Presets folder and use Finder to create a new Folder (with any naming convention that HFS+ allows including multiple spaces)  Restart LR and your folder will appear in the Preset Panel


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 16, 2016)

Well, Lightroom does behave a bit odd with spaces in folder names. Try the following: Get the import dialog, click 'Into Subfolder' in the Destination panel and type a name with a space inside, like 'San Francisco'. The name will turn red. Click away from the field to force Lightroom to accept it. You'll get an error saying that the name contains illegal characters and Lightroom will replace the space with an underscore. Strangely enough, Lightroom will have no problem changing the name of the folder into 'San Francisco' after you've created it an imported some photos...


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 16, 2016)

Here are some screen grabs.

First the dialog box I see on creating a new folder. The name is highlighted, Save is not available/





Second: I've put the text I bar at the end of the word 'Folder" and as you can see, no space at the end. Save unavailable







Third: I've deleted the space between the words and now I can Create the new folder.

Yes, I can and have renamed a folder in Finder and LR has no problem seeing that. Its just the creation within LR.


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 15, 2016)

LR comes with a bunch of develop presets I'm never going to use. I want rid of them. Any clues?


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 16, 2016)

I see the same thing. When you create a new folder from the New Develop Preset dialog, the initial name is 'Untitled Folder' but you can't save it like that. You also can't save with another name that contains a space. You have to remove the space. Looks like the same oddity I noticed in the import dialog.


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 16, 2016)

Hooray! Its not just me after all.


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## clee01l (Dec 16, 2016)

LR apparently does not allow "Untitled Folder" to be used as a valid Folder name.  This is probably to insure that the default value (Untitled Folder) has been replaced by a Valid Folder name value.  A valid folder name needs to conform to the naming convention of your FileSystem AND not duplicate any other sub folder where created.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 16, 2016)

clee01l said:


> LR apparently does not allow "Untitled Folder" to be used as a valid Folder name.  This is probably to insure that the default value (Untitled Folder) has been replaced by a Valid Folder name value.  A valid folder name needs to conform to the naming convention of your FileSystem AND not duplicate any other sub folder where created.



No, I don't think that's the explanation. I thought of that, so I added a number and quickly tried 'Untitled2 folder', but that didn't work either. And as I showed you earlier, Lightroom also does not let you create 'San Francisco' as subfolder during import.


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## Paul B (Dec 16, 2016)

I can create with the default 'Untitled Folder'.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 16, 2016)

I can't create any folder with one or more spaces in the name.


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## Paul B (Dec 16, 2016)

I can also put spaces into an 'Import' sub-folder; same caveat that there are no spaces at the end.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 16, 2016)

Paul B said:


> I can also put spaces into an 'Import' sub-folder; same caveat that there are no spaces at the end.



Well, all I can conclude is that Lightroom does not behave the same on our systems. You saw the screenshot, complete with the error message. That error message even has the Lightroom icon on it, so it does come from the application.


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## clee01l (Dec 16, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> Well, all I can conclude is that Lightroom does not behave the same on our systems. You saw the screenshot, complete with the error message. That error message even has the Lightroom icon on it, so it does come from the application.


With everyone running Sierra, I can only conclude that there is some LR Preferences setting.  In the File Handling tab of Preferences, there is a File Handling section.  that controls file naming. ( folders are a part of the file name) 
Paul & I can create everything in Presets folders as long as there is no trailing space.   In the Folder panel, I can add a new folder "San Francisco" without it converting to "San_Francisco"  So I ask those of you that can't match the results that Paul & I get to compare your File Name Generation section with mine below:


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 16, 2016)

Cletus, I'm not talking about adding a folder in the folders panel. I'm talking about adding a subfolder in the import dialog.

 My computers are already turned off (it's 00:30 locally), so I'll check those settings tomorrow. I never changed them, though.


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## Pollok Shields (Dec 17, 2016)

clee01l said:


> With everyone running Sierra, I can only conclude that there is some LR Preferences setting.  In the File Handling tab of Preferences, there is a File Handling section.  that controls file naming. ( folders are a part of the file name)
> Paul & I can create everything in Presets folders as long as there is no trailing space.   In the Folder panel, I can add a new folder "San Francisco" without it converting to "San_Francisco"  So I ask those of you that can't match the results that Paul & I get to compare your File Name Generation section with mine below:



This is the correct answer!

I've set my preferences as shown above and the result is



 

I can now create a folder with a space.

Its still a bug. Why would anyone assume file name generation should have any affect on folder names. Folders are not files!


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## Paul B (Dec 17, 2016)

Good find.

Funnily enough at the same time I was looking through the preferences plist file and came across a filename : allowspaces setting (which is presumably set by this dialog box. I thought the same thing; folders are not files.

If you take the file name as full hierarchical name then it applies, and that may be valid in a technical context.

But in the GUI a user changing that setting isn't going to be thinking that. So I agree it'a a bug; if only to expand the text in the Preferences pane to make it clear that it also applies to folders. And that it also applies to names like the Presets  ... a user isn't necessarily going to know or care that those names actually map to physical folders.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 17, 2016)

Good catch! I just checked and although I don't remember that I ever changed this setting, I too had 'Replace by underscore' for file names with spaces in them. I agree it's a bug, or Lightroom should specify that it also applies to folders (sometimes, that is).


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## clee01l (Dec 17, 2016)

Pollok Shields said:


> Folders are not files!


Actually they are a part the path which is a part of the file name and are treated by the OS a zero length files.  No bug here.  But I agree that Adobe could make this section clearer to encompass folders and are always a part of the file name. 
The filesystem does not include a hierarchical filing cabinet way of physically organizing data on a disk. Segments of files are arranged on disk where ever space is available (sectors).  Each sector has an index and these are strung together to produce a complete file  The Name of the file consists of the path from the root to the extension. There used to be a Windows limit of 255 characters for a file name including the path  although I think this has now been removed.


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## Johan Elzenga (Dec 17, 2016)

clee01l said:


> Actually they are a part the path which is a part of the file name and are treated by the OS a zero length files.  No bug here.



Technically, I agree. However, only a few percent of all users would know that, so if you have a setting for files names that also affects folder names, then you should at least say so. The other thing is that Lightroom is not consistent here. I could *not* create a 'San Francisco' subfolder on import, but I *could* change the folder name to 'San Francisco' in the folder panel. That does make it a bug IMHO, because that should not have been possible either...


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## Paul B (Dec 17, 2016)

clee01l said:


> No bug here.


It depends how you define a bug. A bug does not necessarily mean broken. A bug or to use a more precise term 'defect', might be when an application does not confirm to requirements. If I were testing the application and I couldn't create a preset folder because some where in the file handling Preferences setting it said don't allow spaces in the file name (which as an application user are two completely unrelated things), then unless that was specifically defined in the user requirement I'd raise a defect.

Even within software development the term 'file name' is not really standardised and needs to be qualified before it's context can be understood. In application APIs you might see the term 'file name' and have to check the documentation before you're sure what you're dealing with. I think if you say file name to the average user they don't think of the full hierarchical name. For example in the EXIF metadata panel you have file name ... but it's the name without the path. Why should a user think the term means anything different in the Preferences panel? To me that inconsistency is a defect in itself.


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