# why are all plugin menu options put into the File> Plugin Extras menu?



## PhilBurton (Jun 24, 2016)

I just installed a bunch of plugins for the first time, and I was dismayed to see that all the various plugins and their menu choices were installed into one, very large menu list.  Is there any way to move these menu items to their logical places, e.g. Jeffrey Friedel's two geo plugins to somewhere in the Map section?

Phil


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## clee01l (Jun 24, 2016)

Some one like John Beardsworth can give you the definitive answer. But  I believe the SDK limits the menu expansion for developer plugins to two places <File><Plugin Extras> and <Library><Plugin Extras>

It is probably worth a feature request to Adobe since this menu choice has not changed since third party plugins were first introduced.


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## PhilBurton (Jun 25, 2016)

clee01l said:


> Some one like John Beardsworth can give you the definitive answer. But  I believe the SDK limits the menu expansion for developer plugins to two places <File><Plugin Extras> and <Library><Plugin Extras>
> 
> It is probably worth a feature request to Adobe since this menu choice has not changed since third party plugins were first introduced.


Thanks for the suggestion, Cletus.  I'll wait until John or other plugin writers comment before submitting a feature request.

Phil


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## johnbeardy (Jun 25, 2016)

clee01l said:


> But I believe the SDK limits the menu expansion for developer plugins to two places <File><Plugin Extras> and <Library><Plugin Extras>



That's correct, Cletus, although in fact there is a third possibility. No-one uses Help > Plugin Extras though. 

Most of my plugins only use Library > Plugin Extras because File > Plugin Extras is simply too busy. Though it's stated clearly in my plugin instructions, I get a steady stream of emails from people saying my plugin doesn't work and then expressing surprise at the existence of the Library menu item.

We plugin authors have asked on numerous occasions for the ability to customise the menu to add our extra items where it most makes sense. You see how far we've got....

John


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## PhilBurton (Jun 25, 2016)

johnbeardy said:


> That's correct, Cletus, although in fact there is a third possibility. No-one uses Help > Plugin Extras though.
> 
> Most of my plugins only use Library > Plugin Extras because File > Plugin Extras is simply too busy. Though it's stated clearly in my plugin instructions, I get a steady stream of emails from people saying my plugin doesn't work and then expressing surprise at the existence of the Library menu item.
> 
> ...


Cletus,

That is the confirmation I sought before I would submit a feature request to have plugin extra items added to the regular menu structures.  EDIT:  I just posted that feature request.

John,

Thanks for the reply. 

I know that there is someone from Adobe with the title "Community Relations Manager" or something similar, who participates in this forum.  I'd love to read his response to your statement.  I'm seeing signs of "internal-itis" in the Lightroom team at Adobe, where they talk to each other more than they listen to users, and in this case plugin authors.  Common enough syndrome, but that doesn't justify it.

Phil

Phil


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## rob211 (Jun 26, 2016)

Yeah, kinda out of control.

I'd like overall customization of workspaces and menu items, but not holding my breath.

Meanwhile I use keyboarding commands and such to find stuff. I was assigning keyboard combos to many plugins, but kept forgetting them. Then I found an Alfred workflow (Mac only I think) that searches menus. Since lotsa conscientious plugin'ers use their initials (which, mysterious, always seem to start with "j") you can use an Alfred workflow to search for their plugins. So I invoke Alfred with say command-space, type "m" to start the workflow, and then "jb" and there's a list of the menu items.

The workflow is here: Menu Search - Share your Workflows


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## PhilBurton (Jun 26, 2016)

rob211 said:


> Yeah, kinda out of control.
> 
> I'd like overall customization of workspaces and menu items, but not holding my breath.
> 
> ...



Yes, that utility is Mac only, and I have Windows machines.  But your comment gave me an idea.  One of the plugins I installed was Keyboard Tamer, for creating shortcuts,  and that seemed like a good idea.  I'll have to experiment with this plugin.

Microsoft, as an example, allows third parties to add items to the standard Windows menus. Why not Adobe? Why NOT Adobe?


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## johnbeardy (Jun 26, 2016)

In general, Adobe does allow the addition of menu items. Sadly, Lightroom is an exception.


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## PhilBurton (Jun 26, 2016)

johnbeardy said:


> In general, Adobe does allow the addition of menu items. Sadly, Lightroom is an exception.


Probably different product management or different development organizations.  And maybe, maybe, inside the Lightroom organization, things are done more for the convenience of the engineers than for the benefit of the users and the plugin writers.

Of course, this likely reason doesn't begin to justify this exception.  

@Adobe Community Relations Manager:  Please join this thread.

Phil


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## tspear (Jun 27, 2016)

It takes programming effort to allow the dynamic menus. So it likely is a question of priorities. New import design or menus.... 
If I had to guess, Lr has built the menus in such a way, that adding dynamic menus is actually harder then it should be. Likely due to a developer building a super "elegant" solution.


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## clee01l (Jun 27, 2016)

tspear said:


> It takes programming effort to allow the dynamic menus. So it likely is a question of priorities. New import design or menus....
> If I had to guess, Lr has built the menus in such a way, that adding dynamic menus is actually harder then it should be. Likely due to a developer building a super "elegant" solution.


Actually, I no longer think that true. Few if any menus are hard coded. Each menu is dynamically built.  First the Action word (New Catalog, Open Catalog, Undo, Redo, etc)  uses a language table so that the word displayed is appropriate for the default language (English German, French etc.) Second the Action has to match the Action word and that comes from another table. Third there is the HotKey and It needs to match the Action Word (language) and the Action.  These tables can be built dynamically. So adding another item to the table(s) extends the menu.  The sub menus that do host the Plugin Menu items are probably constructed in this manner.  They are dynamic since these are dependent upon the plugins installed.


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## tspear (Jun 27, 2016)

Cletus,

You are making my point. 
Adobe would need to provide documentation and/or tools to manipulate the menus, and then deal with application state (such as which module selected or images selected...), then integration testing, and then ensuring some developer does not delete/screw up the core menus from Adobe... 
Depending on how the menu system is programmed, extending for this feature can be very easy, or can be a can of worms which consumes a fair number of resources. At this point, not enough complaints or comments; or an internal person with a passion for the ecosystem; has pushed Adobe to allocate the resources to make this happen.

Tim


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## LouieSherwin (Jun 29, 2016)

PhilBurton said:


> Yes, that utility is Mac only, and I have Windows machines.  But your comment gave me an idea.  One of the plugins I installed was Keyboard Tamer, for creating shortcuts,  and that seemed like a good idea.  I'll have to experiment with this plugin.
> 
> Microsoft, as an example, allows third parties to add items to the standard Windows menus. Why not Adobe? Why NOT Adobe?



Phil,

You can also make your own keyboard shortcuts in Windows and Mac to access your favorite plug-in menu items. For example I have shortcuts setup for geotagging, Any Filter and Any Tag since I use those frequently. I am not sure how you do it on Window but on the Mac it is in the System Keyboard preferences. 

One trick on the Mac is that when you want to define a shortcut you must include three spaces preceding the complete menu text. With out including these spaces it will not work. Also on the Mac I can use a Ctl key modifier because it is left open due to the keyboard differences between Mac and PC

-louie


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## PhilBurton (Jun 29, 2016)

LouieSherwin said:


> Phil,
> 
> You can also make your own keyboard shortcuts in Windows and Mac to access your favorite plug-in menu items. For example I have shortcuts setup for geotagging, Any Filter and Any Tag since I use those frequently. I am not sure how you do it on Window but on the Mac it is in the System Keyboard preferences.
> 
> ...


Louie,

Thanks, but I have a Windows system.  

Phil


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## LouieSherwin (Jun 30, 2016)

PhilBurton said:


> Louie,
> 
> Thanks, but I have a Windows system.
> 
> Phil



Yes I understand. Windows has access to menus via keyboard shortcuts as well. Hopefully a Windows expert will explain the details. 

Here is some additional information: Any Tag Lightroom Plugin

-louie


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## PhilBurton (Aug 22, 2018)

tspear said:


> Cletus,
> 
> You are making my point.
> Adobe would need to provide documentation and/or tools to manipulate the menus, and then deal with application state (such as which module selected or images selected...), then integration testing, and then ensuring some developer does not delete/screw up the core menus from Adobe...
> ...


BUMP.

I was going through some old emails thalt I exchanged with a business colleague who used to work in Adobe (but not onthe Lightroom team).  This thread was in one of the emails, so I re-read the thread.  

Summation:  No progress on this issue.  Comments welcomed from the plug-in authors who are members of this forum.

Phil Burton


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