# Figuring out storage issues



## Bernard Wilson (Oct 17, 2017)

Operating System: Mac Sierra

Lightroom Version: 2015 12
_(Please go to Help menu > System Info to double check the exact version number)_

Question or Description of Problem: I am very new, so please be gentle I learned how to create collections and now I need to separate certain shots into more specific folders. I have a folder under collections, "birds." Now I want to split this into specific types of birds. I have activated the drop down menu at the collection header for the collection I want to divide, but do not see an option for folders. I appreciate some help. TIA!


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 17, 2017)

You are looking for the wrong word. It's not a 'folder', it's a Collection Set.


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 17, 2017)

Thank you for responding. So are you saying there is not a way to separate files from within a collection that can be nested in a larger more general one, or am I getting this all wrong ?


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 17, 2017)

If I understand your question correctly, then the answer is indeed negative. You can nest collections in collection sets, but collection sets cannot contain images, only collections.


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 17, 2017)

So would you advise me to create a collection set for each type of bird and then somehow nest them? Or create a collection set and then put the collect in them?


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## Linwood Ferguson (Oct 17, 2017)

Note you actually also have the choice of using keywords, and then you can find all "Egrets" with the keyword search, or use smart collections to automatically show them.

Keywords have the advantage of (In my opinion) being more intuitive when they are not mutually exclusive. For example, a shot of an Egret may be keyworded as "Egret", "Birds", "Six mile Cypress" or anything else, and you can quickly find any of those or combinations with the metadata search.

I find collections much more useful for items more ad hoc, e.g. "Shots I entered in contest X", things that are not derivable by other metadata such as dates, keywords, camera type, etc.

Though it is purely a matter of personal preference.  For example I could have also had a "Contest X" keyword. 

I bring it up as people tend to think more naturally about keywording photos, whereas they often get confused about folders vs collects vs collection sets vs published collections vs smart collections.  Really they are all ways to do the same thing, but if you get good keywords on a photo, you can easily do the rest later.  Or find you don't need to.


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 17, 2017)

Thanks for that suggestion and explanation. I think as a maiden voyage, I will go back and key word all the birds (lots and lots) and maybe after I get some time in, will make another go at the collection/collection set approach. I appreciate your help!


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## Linwood Ferguson (Oct 17, 2017)

@Bernard, if you do that, be sure when you get to collections to look at smart collections -- it can build collections based on keywords (and other metadata). 

Coming up with a "good" set of keywords, and using them consistently and thoroughly, goes a long way to finding images when you need them later.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 17, 2017)

Well, I don't know exactly what you have in mind, do let me give you an example from my own catalog. I have a collection set called 'Africa'. Inside that set is another set called 'Animals'. Inside 'Animals' I have a third set called 'Cats'. Inside the 'Cats' set are my (smart) collections 'Lions', 'Leopards', 'Cheetahs', etc.


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 17, 2017)

I noticed that when I rate a photo, I can see its addition to Smart collection. That also made me happy! So I did learn something about that function. So even though I am getting in the habit of rating my shots, shortly after I initially view them, I was trying to find a way to break down the group of 600 bird shots...many of which are not yet rated. That led to my initial question.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 17, 2017)

You can define smart collections in all sorts of ways. My cat collections are all smart collections, based on the keyword 'lion' or 'leopard' or 'cheetah'.


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 17, 2017)

JohanElzenga said:


> Well, I don't know exactly what you have in mind, do let me give you an example from my own catalog. I have a collection set called 'Africa'. Inside that set is another set called 'Animals'. Inside 'Animals' I have a third set called 'Cats'. Inside the 'Cats' set are my (smart) collections 'Lions', 'Leopards', 'Cheetahs', etc.



That is precisely what I am trying to do. I may have mucked up the process by just creating on large collection for birds. Now I am trying to do what you described. Can you suggest how I can engineer that from my current state?


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 17, 2017)

Create the collection set hierarchy in the same way I did. Then create smart collections for each bird species. Use keywords for the species and let the smart collections each search for such a keyword. That means that each time you add a bird photo and give it a keyword, the photo will automatically added to the smart collection.


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 17, 2017)

JohanElzenga said:


> Create the collection set hierarchy in the same way I did. Then create smart collections for each bird species. Use keywords for the species and let the smart collections each search for such a keyword. That means that each time you add a bird photo and give it a keyword, the photo will automatically added to the smart collection.



Ok. Thank you very much. An extra serving of herring for your help!


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## Dan Marchant (Oct 18, 2017)

Bernard Wilson said:


> Operating System: Mac Sierra
> 
> Lightroom Version: 2015 12
> _(Please go to Help menu > System Info to double check the exact version number)_
> ...



Important: Folders and Collections are two totally different things. Folders are where you store your files on your computer; Collections only exist in LR and are a virtual set of images that can all be in different folders but have something in common.

An image/file can only be in one folder (unless you make a second copy - which take up more HD space). However a virtual copy of that image can exist in many Collections. 

If you put your files into a Folder called birds you can't have the same file in other folders for Egrets, Ravens etc without having to copy the file and paste it into the new folder - you now have two copies of the same file taking up space on your HD. 

If you have an image in LR and you add it to a Collection (or Smart Collection) called Birds you can also create other Collections called Egrets, Ravens, Flying Monkeys and add the same image to all of them. These additional copies are virtual - just a link back to the original image and take up almost no extra space on your drive. 

So, you can easily have a Collection called Birds and multiple sub-collections under it for all the different types of birds. As others have pointed out, if you create Smart Collections that include all images with a certain keyword (EG Ravens) then any time you import a new Raven image and add that keyword it will automatically be added to that Smart Collection.


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 19, 2017)

Hello. I currently have a collection called "birds." It seems to make good sense to make it a smart collection. Can I change the current collection to be a smart collection, and if so, how? Since I have a collection called "birds," how do I create sub-collections? TIA.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 19, 2017)

Bernard Wilson said:


> Hello. I currently have a collection called "birds." It seems to make good sense to make it a smart collection. Can I change the current collection to be a smart collection, and if so, how? Since I have a collection called "birds," how do I create sub-collections? TIA.



No, a smart collection is something entirely different. A smart collection is a saved search. You define the search by filling in criteria. A normal collection is a bunch of images that the user collected, so there is no way you can 'convert' a normal collection to a smart one. You simply have to create the smart collection by defining the criteria, and then the collection fills itself with all the images that fit these criteria.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 19, 2017)

As for your second question. Subcollections do not exist. If you want to store individual (smart) collections of bird species in a hierarchical structure, you have to create a collection *set* called 'birds'.


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 19, 2017)

JohanElzenga said:


> No, a smart collection is something entirely different. A smart collection is a saved search. You define the search by filling in criteria. A normal collection is a bunch of images that the user collected, so there is no way you can 'convert' a normal collection to a smart one. You simply have to create the smart collection by defining the criteria, and then the collection fills itself with all the images that fit these criteria.


Ok. I am clear on that now.


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 19, 2017)

I was simply repeating what Dan said about having a collection called birds and having multiple sub collections under it. I took that to mean I could have sub collections that would appear if I clicked on the collection arrow.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 19, 2017)

He was using the wrong terminolgy. There are Collection Sets, which can contain other sets, or (smart) collections, but not individual images. And there are (smart) collections, which contain images. Subcollections do not exist.


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 19, 2017)

Ayi yi yi. I feel like I am in the weeds on this and apologize for taking so much of your time. I am usually thought of as a fairly intelligent individual but not in this regards, I guess. I now have multiple species separated as collection sets. Many of the images of birds in my master catalogue are labeled. How do I get them into the set?


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 19, 2017)

As I just explained, images cannot be put in a collection *set*, only in a (smart) collection. A collection *set* is for creating a hierarchical structure of collections, not for individual images. Please read my message #9 again and try to 'translate' that into your birds hierarchy.


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 19, 2017)

Ok. I think I've almost got it now. I have the sets created and am bringing the images into a collection within the set, but if I try to make it a smart collection (so subsequent image types will automatically be added), instead of a regular collection, I end up with every image in the master added, instead of just the ones from the keyword set.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 19, 2017)

That depends on the criteria of the smart collection. What type of bird(s) do you want to get into the smart collection and what criteria do you use for that?


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 17, 2017)

Operating System: Mac Sierra

Lightroom Version: 2015 12
_(Please go to Help menu > System Info to double check the exact version number)_

Question or Description of Problem: I am very new, so please be gentle I learned how to create collections and now I need to separate certain shots into more specific folders. I have a folder under collections, "birds." Now I want to split this into specific types of birds. I have activated the drop down menu at the collection header for the collection I want to divide, but do not see an option for folders. I appreciate some help. TIA!


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 19, 2017)

I have been able to get all the types into their corresponding sets s regular collections via keywords from the old collection, but then I thought, "why not make it a smart collection so I won't have to do it each time I upload?" That is when I ran into the situation from the previous post. I just looked at the criterion for the smart collection and changed it to "none" which then didn't bring anything. Good so far. But I can't drag the results of the keyword search to the smart collection.


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## Johan Elzenga (Oct 19, 2017)

That is not how smart collections work. You can't drag images you searched for into a smart collection. You have to *create* a smart collection and when you create it you will get a dialog where you must define the criteria. So if you want a smart collection filled with sparrow images, the criteria become *<Keywords> <contains words> “sparrow”*.

Do you have Victoria's free Lightroom guide? If not, I strongly advise you to get it.


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## Bernard Wilson (Oct 19, 2017)

JohanElzenga said:


> That depends on the criteria of the smart collection. What type of bird(s) do you want to get into the smart collection and what criteria do you use for that?



I just saw your post and suggestion about the guide. I downloaded it and will spend some time with it. I know it was a slog, but thanks for being there to help. I was able to accomplish my mission. Regards!


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