# Images from LR to PS are different - color profiles match



## csiobhan88 (Sep 18, 2016)

So I've only had LR for a week.  I usually edit in PS, not that I know much about that either, lol.  I've noticed when I edit LR photos in PS, they are coming up much darker in PS than they were in LR.  Both LR & PS are set to srgb (I know that's like the worst, but I order from Mpix, and I guess that's what they use.. ?).  Trying to find answers online, it seems like this should only be a problem if my profiles weren't the same, so I don't know what's going on.  Helllllllp!

On the left are the image & settings for LR, on the right are PS:


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## Gnits (Sep 18, 2016)

There are probably lots of conflicting views and needs on this topic.

Basically, Lr is based on the Prophoto Colour space.  I interchange between Lr and Ps very regularly, so I have configured Ps to use Prophoto as its native colour space. In this way,  I avoid colour conversions on each round trip between Lr and Ps or visa versa.  


Basically, when I am editing I use the largest colour space possible.

I decide what colour profile to use at the point of Export from Lr depending on what the image will be used for. I have 4 Export presets configured to handle 95% of my export needs. For web or email I have configured srgb, for a specific printing service I have AdobeRGB.

srgb is a relatively small colour space, so you are losing a lot of the colour information captured by your camera's sensor. At some stage in the future you may wish to print your own images, where you will have access to paper and ink with a much wider gamut than srgb, or indeed use a different print service.


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## csiobhan88 (Sep 18, 2016)

Gnits said:


> There are probably lots of conflicting views and needs on this topic.



So far, the srgb is just easier, since it works with Mpix as well as online.  If that's what fixed this problem, I'd gladly make the switch now, but I did try changing both LR and PS to AdobeRGB, and then ProPhoto as well.  Nothing changed at all.  The images remained as they were in LR, and still showed up too dark in PS.  I am losing my mind!!


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## Gnits (Sep 18, 2016)

How was the image in Lr created.  For example, is it a raw file or a jpg from a camera.


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## clee01l (Sep 18, 2016)

Welcome to the forum. Lightroom uses the ProPhotoRGB colorspace for processing and so should you since the color envelop is larger.  Even though your monitor may no be capable of displaying colors outside of sRGB, you should let the computations create and work with them.   The  using the Edit-In Function to invoke Photoshop. you should let Photoshop have the broader colorspace too.  
The differences that you are seeing are probably the rendering of ProPhotoRGB colors in LR  versus sRGB colors in Photoshop.

It is also important that you get your monitor to display colors accurately.  So you should calibrate your monitor regularly.


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## Gnits (Sep 18, 2016)

Is your monitor calibrated.

When you import your image into Lr it will be converted into Prophoto colour space.   You have no choice about that. It is the way Lr works.

I am not sure of the route you are taking from Lr to Photoshop, but if you are using the "Edit in Photoshop" option, then  Lr will create and open  a tiff image with an srgb profile as per your config.   It is possible that this conversion *might *be part of the problem.


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## Johan Elzenga (Sep 18, 2016)

I think there is a bit of misinformation that might be confusing. Even though Lightroom uses (a kind of) ProPhotoRGB as its internal color space, that is not what Lightroom displays in the Library module. The previews you see in the Library module are in AdobeRGB, so your left image is in AdobeRGB. Your right image is obviously in sRGB, because that is what you instructed both Lightroom and Photoshop to do. A conversion from AdobeRGB to sRGB may change the colors a bit, but you shouldn't get a darker image. The fact that you do (although it's just a very slight difference on my iPad) may indicate that your monitor is not properly calibrated.


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## Johan Elzenga (Sep 18, 2016)

Gnits said:


> When you import your image into Lr it will be converted into Prophoto colour space.



No, it won't. That is a common misunderstanding. Lightroom does not touch the originals, remember? Lightroom uses (a kind of) ProPhotoRGB as its internal color space _when rendering derivative images_, but it does not convert your originals to ProPhotoRGB. Not even if the originals are RGB images.


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## Gnits (Sep 18, 2016)

Apologies ...badly phrased.  Of course the original image remains untouched, I should have been clearer, but Lr renders it internally as a Prophoto type space.

I too have been puzzled by the darker result and wonder if the problem is as simple as selecting the wrong edit option. If option 2 or 3 are selected and changes have been made in Lr then there will definitely be a difference. This may not be the case, but worth eliminating, as should the calibration status of the monitor.


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## Johan Elzenga (Sep 18, 2016)

No, I don't think that has anything to do with it. His Photoshop Color Management Policies settings are 'Convert to Working Space' and the working space is sRGB, so no matter what option he used in Lightroom, the image he sees in Photoshop is sRGB.


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## Gnits (Sep 18, 2016)

JohanElzenga said:


> the image he sees in Photoshop is sRGB.



Agree completely ......   but might still be selecting the wrong Edit Mode.


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## Johan Elzenga (Sep 18, 2016)

Gnits said:


> Agree completely ......   but might still be selecting the wrong Edit Mode.



He might, but that would be an entirely different problem.


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## Johan Elzenga (Sep 18, 2016)

Ah, sorry, I see what you mean. Maybe the original is darker, and he made some adjustment in Lightroom to brighten the image. Then, if he sends the unadjusted image to Photoshop, he may see this. That's true, but then I would have expected him to say something about 'losing the Lightroom adjustments'. And we don't even know if it is technically possible, because we don't know what his originals are; raw or jpeg.


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## csiobhan88 (Sep 18, 2016)

My monitor is not calibrated.  Which I understand is not a good thing, but I don't understand how that affects images remaining consistent between LR & PS.  For example, if my screen made everything appear darker than it was, why wouldn't they both appear just as dark in either LR or PS?  I don't understand why there are differences between the two programs, when they are set to the same color profiles.

I have tried setting everything (camera, LR, PS) to srgb, I have tried setting it all to AdobeRGB, I've tried setting it all to ProPhoto (excluding the camera, as it doesn't have this option).  No matter which profile I use, the image comes up darker in PS every time.

To answer Gnits question, I'm shooting in Raw on a NikonD7000.  I did originally have the camera set to srgb.  I switched to Adobe just now to see if that helped anything... it did not.  Agghghhghghghg!!!!


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## csiobhan88 (Sep 18, 2016)

Oh, and to export to PS I'm just right clicking the image and saying "edit in photoshop".


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## csiobhan88 (Sep 18, 2016)

I've also tried to just overexpose in LR to make up for it, but the over color and tones are off as well.  The whole picture is more saturated or something.  Wtf.


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## clee01l (Sep 19, 2016)

csiobhan88 said:


> \
> I have tried setting everything (camera, LR, PS) to srgb, I have tried setting it all to AdobeRGB, I've tried setting it all to ProPhoto (excluding the camera, as it doesn't have this option).  No matter which profile I use, the image comes up darker in PS every time.
> 
> To answer Gnits question, I'm shooting in Raw on a NikonD7000.  I did originally have the camera set to srgb.  I switched to Adobe just now to see if that helped anything... it did not.  Agghghhghghghg!!!!


RAW image file (NEFs) have no colorspace since there are not RGB images.  The color space setting in the camera only affects JPEGs created by the camera (including the thumbnail embedded in the RAW header.
Lightroom only uses the ProPhotoRGB color space and this is assigned by ACR when the RAW data id converted to an RGB image.  Forget about trying to make everything sRGB  That color space has too small of an envelope. In the diagram below are triangles that represent the limits of each color space.  Any color outside the sRGB envelop will not be present in any image file that is limited to that color space.   AS you can see the ProPhotoRGB color space is encompassing the most color values.   If your editor is limited to sRGB, then any computation that generated a color value outside of the sRGB colorspace will have this colors compromised to a color value on the colorspace boundary.





If you have the same version of ACR in both LR and PS and process the same RAW image in PSCC, then you will get the same result as long as you are using the ProPhotoRGB colorspace through out. 

You need to be consistent with the colorspace that you used. ProPhotoRGB is what LRCC is going to use  and ACR will convert your RAW data to a ProPhotoRGB image when it is converted to RGB.  Next after processing  in LR you will used the Edit-In function to pass the image converted by ACR and the Adjustments made in LRCC to PSCC. When you do this you will *not* even see the dialog that Gnits shows.





 At this point your PSCC image will look identical to the image that you see in LR *if* you use the same ProPhotoRGB colorspace in PSCC.
If it does not, then there are other issues outside of LRCC & PSCC that affect your display.
Your LightroomForums profile say that you are at LR version LRCC2015.0.  You *must* be on the latest revision LRCC2015.6.1.  Earlier versions of LR6/LRCC2015.x are full of some serious bugs and need to be updated.  If you are indeed running LRCC2015.0 then this can be the source of much of your angst.  Your PSCC version needs to be 2015.5.1 to be fully compatible with the same version of ACR that is found in LRCC.

So, are you running the latest version of LRCC & PSCC?  And Are you using the Edit-In function to call PSCC as you should be doing?


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## csiobhan88 (Sep 19, 2016)

So first, thank everyone so much for the help.  I know my lack of knowledge is probably rather painful for all of you.





clee01l said:


> If you have the same version of ACR in both LR and PS and process the same RAW image in PSCC, then you will get the same result as long as you are using the ProPhotoRGB colorspace through out.



So as far as this goes, I'm now kind of (more) confused.  Before I ever used Lightroom (beginning last week, lol), I viewed my images in Bridge, made changes in Camera Raw, and then edited further in Photoshop.  Now I import into Lightroom, make changes there, and go to Photoshop.  When I'm in Lightroom, obviously a lot of the controls are similar to Camera Raw, but I didn't realize it had it's own version separate from PS... I thought CR was kind of built in to LR or something.  I.e., I have no idea how to make sure they're the same version.  

I will note that if I use my old workflow (Bridge, Raw, PS), the images are consistent and this problem doesn't exist.



clee01l said:


> When you do this you will *not* even see the dialog that Gnits shows.







I've never seen that dialog box at all.



clee01l said:


> At this point your PSCC image will look identical to the image that you see in LR *if* you use the same ProPhotoRGB colorspace in PSCC.
> If it does not, then there are other issues outside of LRCC & PSCC that affect your display.



I'm still not sure I'm doing what you're saying, because I'm super confused about the ACR thing now, but all I can say is that so far it doesn't matter what color space I'm using.  I've tried to use ProPhoto in LR & PS, and the same thing still happens.  I did go into ACR (through Bridge) and change the settings at the bottom to match LR & PS, but that didn't do anything - I figured because LR wasn't using ACR.  Ughh.  I have no idea.




clee01l said:


> Your LightroomForums profile say that you are at LR version LRCC2015.0.  You *must* be on the latest revision LRCC2015.6.1.  Earlier versions of LR6/LRCC2015.x are full of some serious bugs and need to be updated.  If you are indeed running LRCC2015.0 then this can be the source of much of your angst.  Your PSCC version needs to be 2015.5.1 to be fully compatible with the same version of ACR that is found in LRCC.
> So, are you running the latest version of LRCC & PSCC?  And Are you using the Edit-In function to call PSCC as you should be doing?



Lightroom says I'm using 2015.6.1, and Camera Raw 9.6.
Photoshop says 2015.5.1, and when I go to About Plug-in, it says Camera Raw is Version 9.6.1.631

So... should I just throw my computer out the window?  Right now I'm trying to create an action in PS to compensate for the change taking place.  I don't know what else to do.


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## csiobhan88 (Sep 19, 2016)

Oh, and yes, to switch to PS I am right clicking and choosing  "Edit In".


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## clee01l (Sep 19, 2016)

csiobhan88 said:


> I will note that if I use my old workflow (Bridge, Raw, PS), the images are consistent and this problem doesn't exist.
> .... I'm super confused about the ACR thing now, but all I can say is that so far it doesn't matter what color space I'm using.  I've tried to use ProPhoto in LR & PS, and the same thing still happens.  I did go into ACR (through Bridge) and change the settings at the bottom to match LR & PS, but that didn't do anything - I figured because LR wasn't using ACR.  Ughh.  I have no idea.
> ...
> Lightroom says I'm using 2015.6.1, and Camera Raw 9.6.
> Photoshop says 2015.5.1, and when I go to About Plug-in, it says Camera Raw is Version 9.6.1.631.


If you use Bridge, it is only a file manager. ACR in LRCC is integrated into the LR executable. IN PSCC that same code is accessed as a Plugin.  ACR compatibility is per version. ACR9.6 in  LR and ACR 9.6.1 in PSCC is the same Camera RAW engine.  That is why I said that If you used the same ProPhotoRGB colorspace in PSCC for processing, your image will appear the same when opened in PSCC2015.5.1  as it looks in LRCC2015.6.1  This is because PSCC is working with the same RAW file that LR got and is using the same adjustments that you made in LRCC.
 If it is not looking the same in PSCC when ProPhotoRGB is used throughout, *then the problem is not with PSCC or LRCC*.
(
Remember LRCC is using ACR to create an RGB image from the RAW NEF file. The interface to the controls in LRCC is different from the ACR Plugin in PSCC but they are the same controls.  Now Lets go back to your original post.  You posted screen shot of an image in LRCC (processes using the ProPhotoRGB color space) and another from PSCC where the image had been converted to sRGB.

Can you duplicate those screen shots  but make sure your Edit-in function is set to ProPhotoRGB and that you process in PSCC in the ProPhotoRGB colorspace?.    Your original screen shots don't look all that much different on my 5K display.   The screen shots them selves are possible going to be limited by the color space of your monitor which could be sRGB.   My 5K iMac is rendering using the DCI-P3 color space that is similar to AdobeRGB.     You can see how it compares to sRGB and Adobe RGB.


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## Gnits (Sep 19, 2016)

clee01l said:


> make sure your Edit-in function is set to ProPhotoRGB and that you process in PSCC in the ProPhotoRGB colorspace?.



You should adopt these settings for now, until you are comfortable with Color Management in general.  It means you are removing some of the variables involved. Also, to be safe, I would exit out of Ps and Lr after making the changes.



csiobhan88 said:


> I'm shooting in Raw on a NikonD7000.



Thanks for answering this question .... it eliminates some oddball scenarios.

As an experiment you could do the following.

Export the image from Lr as a jpg , with 3 different colour spaces, srgb, adobeRGB  and prophoto.

Now open them all in Photoshop and see if there are any differences. 





I am not sure if this will show anything... but will be interesting to see what happens.

Also, check if you have multiple versions of Photoshop installed and make sure you are using the most recent.


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## Johan Elzenga (Sep 19, 2016)

If your monitor isn't calibrated, then the differences that you see can be explained as follows. The image on the left is the preview in the Library module. As said, those previews are in AdobeRGB. Because your monitor can (probably) not display AdobeRGB, these colors need to be converted for the display. On a non-calibrated monitor that will not be done properly. The image on the right is sRGB and that your monitor can display. The colors of this image will not be affected that much by the non-calibration, because they need little or no conversion.


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## csiobhan88 (Sep 21, 2016)

Okay, so again, thanks for all the info!  The baby in the picture is mine, so I hope that explains my late (and short) responses. 

So here is basically what I posted before, except everything is in ProPhoto, and viewing at 100%, so you can (maybe) see the difference more clearly. Left is LR, right is PS:





Here are jpgs (both saved with srgb); on the left is exported/saved from LR, on the right is exported to PS from LR, no changes made, and then saved:





So.  There's that.

I DO understand I need to calibrate my screen, and it's top on the list of things I can't afford right now, lol.  But I really, really do NOT understand how because of my screen not being calibrated, the image would appear differently between programs using the same color profile.  I'm still looking through the same uncalibrated screen, right?  I'm not trying to sound like an ass, I just really am that stupid.  I think you've all already tried to explain it, but I'm just not understanding.  I just don't want to run out and buy a calibration tool/system, and then still have this problem.  Because at that point, I'm setting everything on fire.


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## Johan Elzenga (Sep 21, 2016)

I wonder how you save these images, because your screenshots don't tell that. When you export an image from Lightroom, you get an export dialog where you choose the color profile (among a lot of other things). Show us that dialog in a screenshot. When you choose 'Save as...' in Photoshop however, you don't get a dialog where you can specify a different profile. So chances are that the jpeg that was saved from Photoshop is still ProPhotoRGB. So tell us and show us how you save the joeg from Photoshop too.


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## Gnits (Sep 21, 2016)

I am happy to do a screen dump of your image on my calibrated system using Lr and Ps.   Send me a message if you would like me to try this.


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## csiobhan88 (Sep 18, 2016)

So I've only had LR for a week.  I usually edit in PS, not that I know much about that either, lol.  I've noticed when I edit LR photos in PS, they are coming up much darker in PS than they were in LR.  Both LR & PS are set to srgb (I know that's like the worst, but I order from Mpix, and I guess that's what they use.. ?).  Trying to find answers online, it seems like this should only be a problem if my profiles weren't the same, so I don't know what's going on.  Helllllllp!

On the left are the image & settings for LR, on the right are PS:


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## csiobhan88 (Sep 25, 2016)

Thank you all again for you help - THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED!!!

I know everything was current when I initially posted, but I got a notification last night that there were updates to all the Creative Cloud programs.  After they were installed, the problem disappeared!  Must've been a glitch that they fixed or something.  I'm not about to question it, lol.  I'm just so relieved it's all working now


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