# SmugMug Smart Albums and lost keywords



## parkerpress (Feb 20, 2020)

I'm getting started on creating some new albums in SmugMug using the plugin, but I can't figure out how to get all my keywords to upload. Some of the photos have some of the keywords, but for the most part they're missing. 

I've searched far and wide on the web for hints, but no pages I've found accurately reflect the LR or Plugin versions I have (9.2 and 3.1.9.0 respectively). There are screencaps with dialogs that don't exist, and referencing menus that don't exist. 

Does anybody have any ideas where I can look for why my keywords aren't uploading properly? I've got the rest of the syncing working the way I want, I just can't get the keywords to work right.

Thanks!

Steve


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## LouieSherwin (Feb 20, 2020)

In the Keywords tab on the right panel (Grid or Loupe) right click (Cmd-click) on one of the keywords that is not being exported to SM. Select "Edit Keyword Tag..." and check the Keyword Tag Option to be sure you have not accidentally turned of include on export.

-louie


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## Linwood Ferguson (Feb 20, 2020)

And you may know this but LR Smart Galleries and SM Smart Galleries are quite different and fairly incompatible.  Generally speaking a smart LR gallery is a normal SM gallery, an d a smart SM gallery is either not in LR or is an empty normal gallery.  If you try to use both together they double up.


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## parkerpress (Feb 21, 2020)

Thanks for the feedback! I'm building "new" LR Smart Albums from scratch in LR, and having the plugin create them in SM.

@LouieSherwin : I have checked the tags that are missing on the SM side, and all of them have "Include on export" enabled. I'll keep poking at it to try to figure out why they're not showing up.

@Ferguson : I appreciate the heads up on SM Smart Galleries vs SM Smart Galleries. Since I'm building the SM galleries from LR, I'm assuming the plugin will do it right. But I didn't realize I could create Smart Galleries on the SM side, so maybe I'll upload a large single album, and have SM pull Smart Albums from that instead of uploading potential duplicates (even though they are free to store).

Steve


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## Linwood Ferguson (Feb 21, 2020)

Yeah, you could do that, though you can hit the limit quickly.

I found it really handy when I wanted one gallery by event, then I put person keywords in for players and I could do an automagic by-player gallery for each player.  Work nicely (well, except for needing to tag each player, which I gave up on after a couple years). 

That's really where I like SM's technique, if you want multiple dimensions of galleries - place, person, event, date, etc.   While storage is free, SM's implementation is instant -- doing it in LR means you have to upload multiple times.  Takes time even if you have a fast internet.


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## parkerpress (Feb 22, 2020)

Interesting. I'm going to try to figure out a better "workflow" for what my end goals are. I have about 50k family pictures from the last 100 years, and want to share them out. I've got most of them tagged well, but can't get the tags to sync. If I could push them in bulk, then use SM Smart Albums to let the extended family assemble them by tags as they want, that'd be the perfect world. 

I'll go poke at SmugMug support to see if I can get the keyword problem worked out.

Thanks again for your advice and making me think more about my workflow. I appreciate it.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Feb 22, 2020)

FWIW I use keywords a lot with the plugin and they do work.  I'd suggest experimenting a bit with one image, check the settings on the keywords in LR.   I really think it is something in how you are using LR, not at SM -- there's just so many people using LR and plugins and SM together, I doubt it is a bug you have hit.

One other SM quirk you should be aware of, though it rarely matters in practice, is that the plugin does not always upload the actual image.  Here's an example: 

1) Import and edit an image (let's call it X)
2) Add a keyword A to image x.
3) Put in a gallery and publish to smugmug.  SM will show the image and keyword A.
4) Now add keyword B to image x (but do not edit image x, e.g. in develop).
5) Publish to smugmug.  

During step 5, the image is not sent again, it only sends instructions to add the keyword B.  This is added to SM's list of keywords for the image.  The actual image itself only has keyword A not B in it; if you download the image and look you see only A.  This is because (correctly in my opinion) SM will never touch the actual image you upload, and if you download it, it is bit-for-bit a faithful copy.  The issue is that it doesn't upload after the keyword change.

This can be relevant if you have others who download your images and expect them to be keyworded properly.  There is a workaround though, you can AFTER doing step 5: 

6) Select the image(s), and do a "Mark for republish". 
7) Publish to smugmug

This will send the image data (and also the keywords).   Note this does not work unless you do (5) and publish first, otherwise mark for republish will also only send the keyword not the image.  

SM considers this a feature (to minimize uploads); I consider it a bug, or at least a missing feature (the ability to say "I really mean upload it all"). 

I mention this mostly because you talk about other family members looking; if you expect them to download this may one day show up as an issue.


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## camner (Feb 22, 2020)

@Ferguson:  I never realized SM behaved this way (with respect to adding keywords after initial publication)!  Do you know if SM's behavior is similar with adding (post initial publishing) other metadata, such as Title, Caption, IPTC location data, etc?  

Is there any way of determining which images are in this state, where the "downloaded from SM" version will differ in metadata from what LR has?

One workaround would be to mark ALL photos & videos to be republished to SM, but that would result in a very lengthy upload process.


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## Linwood Ferguson (Feb 23, 2020)

camner said:


> @Ferguson:  I never realized SM behaved this way (with respect to adding keywords after initial publication)!  Do you know if SM's behavior is similar with adding (post initial publishing) other metadata, such as Title, Caption, IPTC location data, etc?
> 
> Is there any way of determining which images are in this state, where the "downloaded from SM" version will differ in metadata from what LR has?
> 
> One workaround would be to mark ALL photos & videos to be republished to SM, but that would result in a very lengthy upload process.


Yes, it's all metadata.  It is all predicated on two ideas: That they never touch the original image you uploaded, and secondly that they try to only upload the image itself if the image changes.

Your workaround is exactly what I often have to do.  I'll be uploading an event in a hurry (because of some deadline) and so uploading shots as I go, but then I go back and touch things up, fix spelling, add some more keywords, locations, etc.  Because I use Smugmug to deliver a zip to some schools, I then publish (which primarily does just the changes), then select-all and mark-for-republish, then publish again.  Tremendous waste of time.

But I do agree I don't want them screwing around with my original image either.  What I've asked them for several times is an option in the publish dialog or SM plugin itself whether it should always send the image on any change not just image change.

It's really transparent to most people, and I get why they do it.  But anyone who wants to actually deliver the original images via SM it can be a pain.


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## parkerpress (Feb 24, 2020)

I think I have it finally. I didn't realize there are two sets of preferences for the SmugMug plugin. One under the Library Manager, and one under the publish service top-level header. The prefs I was looking for (keyword control) are under the publishing service header...

The only issue I have now is that the upload of "personal data" (names) seems to be set at a "publishing service" level, not at a gallery level. So I can't have different settings for my gallery albums than I have for private family albums.  

I'm going to keep poking at this for the next week or two to try to get what I want (both public galleries with no metadata other than titles/captions for my photos I want to share on the web at ParkerPress Photography, and then some family albums with personal metadata (names, locations) that should stay private.

Thanks again for all your comments, help, and advice. I do appreciate it!  Especially the tips about how LR will detect changes in metadata for publishing. That would have made me crazy when I ran into it in the future!

Steve


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## Linwood Ferguson (Feb 24, 2020)

Yeah, I could see why you want that but no idea how to do it.


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